Beginner running question - tight muscles, no energy

Promac

Hi folks - As the title says, I'm fairly new to running so I'm not sure what's going wrong here or how to fix it. Any advice greatly appreciated.

I started running in December and I've been out pretty regularly since. Doing about 3 or 4 short runs a week - my shorter runs are about 3.5km now with the longer one about 6km (once a week). Average pace is about 6m30s per km. I don't think I'm overdoing it and I keep my heart-rate down when I'm running (just by listening to it, not using a HR monitor).

So, to the problem: I haven't been out in a few days so I'm well rested, I don't diet so I should have plenty of reserves (and I had a big Wendy's burger for dinner last night so I really should be ok for fuel) and I'm not sore or stiff or anything else that might imply over-training or TMTS or anything like that and I drank some water earlier on. I also go for a whey protein shake after runs to aid in any recovery and all that.

But I went out for a run this morning and by about the 2km mark I just had no more energy for my legs. The muscles got very tight all over, no actual pains or localised tightness, just an overall sort of tightness feeling in the leg muscles and I just felt like I wasn't gonna be able to run any more today. Tried just walking for a bit and letting the muscles loosen up but as soon as I started running again they were just gone. It felt like I was just running on fumes but I'd only gone 2km at a very normal pace. No pain or anything, just no juice.

I'm sure it's just a noob mistake that I don't know about but maybe you guys do so here I am!

Thanks in advance for any help or pointers.

menoscemo

First off, you don't need whey protein after a 3-6k run.

Sounds like you just had a bad day, we all have them. Don't overanalyse it and try again.

Promac

I'd rather find out what was bad about it and try to avoid it. Everything happens for a reason, cause and effect, etc.

menoscemo

Promac wrote: »

I'd rather find out what was bad about it and try to avoid it. Everything happens for a reason, cause and effect, etc.

Ok then, best of luck finding the answer you want :rolleyes:

Promac

Sorry if I offended you but I'm looking for a bit more than "it was just a bad day". Obviously.

myflipflops

Promac wrote: »

Sorry if I offended you but I'm looking for a bit more than "it was just a bad day". Obviously.

He is almost certainly right though. I'm just back running again 2 months myself and I had a bad one today. it;s annoying but I'm not worried. It's part and parcel of the path to proper fitness.

Sometime it just doesn't click: you were probably at a low energy point when you were out. If you experience this feeling over a longer period then you may want to get yourself checked out but not after one day.

One thing I will say: fuel should never really be an issue if you are only running 5/6km at that pace but a Wendy burger is not a good thing. Metabalising all that processed red meat is not what the body wants to do the night before running.

dahat

menoscemo wrote: »

First off, you don't need whey protein after a 3-6k run.

Sounds like you just had a bad day, we all have them. Don't overanalyse it and try again.

Nost likely the correct answer!
Recently i ran 4.5 mile and had to stop 1/2 mile from home,totally legless...gave up hobbled home head bowed.........had a rest day with some strecthing and ran easy miles for next 2 runs,was A1 after that.
As a beginner you tend to over analyse pains and runs too much,sometimes you just have to go with it and realise every run will not be perfect!(took me 8 months to realise this)

huskerdu

We all have a bad day at the office every now and then. It is an important part of running to get used to it, don't be put off and keep going.

Over-analysing one bad run doesn't help, because you might never find the reason and drive yourself mad.

As was said before, fuel is not an issue with short runs like 6km.

The burger might have been your problem. You were probably still digesting it the next morning. You might have not been hydrated enough, even if you didn't realise it.

Avoid eating a large fatty burger the night before a run, and see how you get on.

Promac

I'm not analysing anything at all because I've no idea what it was that made the difference between an easy 6k and a hard 2k so I don't have anything to "over" analyse. Things happen in your body for a reason and it's pretty stupid to just write it off as a "bad day" and think no more of it. I'm a beginner runner but I'm not a beginner athlete.

Maybe you guys are just happy thinking that one day is good but the next the gods or something aren't looking favourable. I prefer trying to find out what the difference is between that easy 6k and a hard 2k. I figured I'd ask here because people in Boards forums are generally well informed.

myflipflops

Promac wrote: »

I'm not analysing anything at all because I've no idea what it was that made the difference between an easy 6k and a hard 2k so I don't have anything to "over" analyse. Things happen in your body for a reason and it's pretty stupid to just write it off as a "bad day" and think no more of it. I'm a beginner runner but I'm not a beginner athlete.

Maybe you guys are just happy thinking that one day is good but the next the gods or something aren't looking favourable. I prefer trying to find out what the difference is between that easy 6k and a hard 2k. I figured I'd ask here because people in Boards forums are generally well informed.

Well, you got an answer from a number of posters that agreed with each other. Do you want someone to make a diagnosis of something complicated based on one day when you felt bad? The reasons are that you had a low energy day caused by sleep, diet or something else. Difficult for us to say.

Nice work being both patronising and getting a subtle dig at us into your last paragraph though.

You say you are not a beginner athlete yet you think a Wendy burger meal counts as 'fuel'. That strikes me as strange. Then again, I've only been involved in athletics for 12 years representing my country along the way.

token56

There are too many variable outside of running for someone here to able to tell you what went wrong really.

First thing people do just have bad days when it comes to running. It somewhat impossible to predict how you body will react to exercise sometimes because of so many different variables, sleep, food, stress, injury, time of run in relation to eating, having sex, etc. If you are very strict with your training, your diet, your schedule and everything is very regular then it can be easier to identify a possible cause for a bad run.

You say you were well rested and would have loads of energy as you had a burger the previous night, well as has been pointed out this is certainly not the best source of energy for a run the next day. Greasy foods take a long time to digest and dont provide you with the sort of energy you need when running.

Regardless of anything else its going to be very hard for someone here to identify why you didn't feel great, only you can do that really. The way you should be doing it is by identifying any familiar patterns of the days before a bad run. Keep a diary of your runs and record how you felt on them, if felt really bad or even really good why you think that is, even if it is something as simple as the burger, a bad nights sleep, the time of day of the run, a race last week, etc. You might see a pattern for some, but you will also just have off days that you can't explain. If they are a very irregular occurrence you just have to chalk it off and move onto your next days run.

Promac

myflipflops wrote: »

Well, you got an answer from a number of posters that agreed with each other. Do you want someone to make a diagnosis of something complicated based on one day when you felt bad? The reasons are that you had a low energy day caused by sleep, diet or something else. Difficult for us to say.

Nice work being both patronising and getting a subtle dig at us into your last paragraph though.

You say you are not a beginner athlete yet you think a Wendy burger meal counts as 'fuel'. That strikes me as strange. Then again, I've only been involved in athletics for 12 years representing my country along the way.

Well aren't you amazing! Apologies if I don't know who you are!

I'm grateful to huskerdu for having a stab at it but you really shouldn't be offended if I don't suck up your "sage" advice. As I said, I was looking for something a bit more scientific. If you don't have anything to add feel free to keep it to yourself.

Promac

token56 wrote: »

There are too many variable outside of running for someone here to able to tell you what went wrong really.

First thing people do just have bad days when it comes to running. It somewhat impossible to predict how you body will react to exercise sometimes because of so many different variables, sleep, food, stress, injury, time of run in relation to eating, having sex, etc. If you are very strict with your training, your diet, your schedule and everything is very regular then it can be easier to identify a possible cause for a bad run.

You say you were well rested and would have loads of energy as you had a burger the previous night, well as has been pointed out this is certainly not the best source of energy for a run the next day. Greasy foods take a long time to digest and dont provide you with the sort of energy you need when running.

Regardless of anything else its going to be very hard for someone here to identify why you didn't feel great, only you can do that really. The way you should be doing it is by identifying any familiar patterns of the days before a bad run. Keep a diary of your runs and record how you felt on them, if felt really bad or even really good why you think that is, even if it is something as simple as the burger, a bad nights sleep, the time of day of the run, a race last week, etc. You might see a pattern for some, but you will also just have off days that you can't explain. If they are a very irregular occurrence you just have to chalk it off and move onto your next days run.

Thanks for adding something more than just a throwaway comment and expecting adulation.

Not to mention the "do you know who I am" guy.

AntiVirus

I'd say you just went out a bit faster than your normal pace and didn't realise it. You're only new to running and running a short distance at a slow pace which is normally comfortable for you to run. It's very easy to run slightly faster without realising the increase in speed and you just run out of energy quicker. Pacing is one of a beginners biggest problems.

Every runner with a GPS watch will have noticed this happens sometimes.

Promac

Thanks for the input but it wasn't a pacing problem. I know how to monitor my heart-rate and speed. I'm an ex-boxer. As such, I used to just put things like this down to "a bad day" but as someone who's focusing on running for now I think it's completely pointless to settle for that kind of thinking. Hence the question here.

I appreciate people trying to help but saying things like "you just had a bad day" is not helping. No-one who is serious about a sport would accept that kind of thinking.

az2wp0sye65487

Promac wrote: »

Well aren't you amazing! Apologies if I don't know who you are!

I'm grateful to huskerdu for having a stab at it but you really shouldn't be offended if I don't suck up your "sage" advice. As I said, I was looking for something a bit more scientific. If you don't have anything to add feel free to keep it to yourself.

Maybe it was something to do with your bad attitude

Promac

Nathalie Helpless Spruce wrote: »

Maybe it was something to do with your bad attitude

You know what? I think you're right. It was just my bad attitude and not my desire to acquire helpful information from experienced athletes.

Long Time Reader

every drop wears away the stone....

eat more, run more.

works for me

Promac

Long Time Reader wrote: »

every drop wears away the stone....

eat more, run more.

works for me

Is it simply nutrition? I don't burn energy running the way I do in any other form of exercise. I can cycle for 50 miles without having to think about nutrition but that's a completely different way of using muscles.

az2wp0sye65487

Promac wrote: »

Nathalie Helpless Spruce wrote: »

Maybe it was something to do with your bad attitude

You know what? I think you're right. It was just my bad attitude and not my desire to acquire helpful information from experienced athletes.

I'm not an experienced athlete. I do run. I like training, I like entering races, and I like talking about it. Boards is a great place to swap ideas, stories etc. with others who are of a similar mindset.

I don't personally know any other posters here, so I can't vouch for anyone. What I can say is that having gotten advice here in the past, it's usually sound.

Being aggressive, sarcastic and dismissive towards people who aren't giving you the answer you're looking for isn't really going to get you anywhere though, is it?

menoscemo

Steviecakes is right, you're attitude is very bad.

We all have bad days and sometimes there is no explaination

You original post gave us no clues to work on except you mentioning that you had a wendy Burger the night before. You were obviously looking for us to all come on and say the burger was the issue, which in fairness you achieved, so well done.
Personally I doubt the burger had anything to do with it.

Promac

Nathalie Helpless Spruce wrote: »

I'm not an experienced athlete. I do run. I like training, I like entering races, and I like talking about it. Boards is a great place to swap ideas, stories etc. with others who are of a similar mindset.

I don't personally know any other posters here, so I can't vouch for anyone. What I can say is that having gotten advice here in the past, it's usually sound.

Being aggressive, sarcastic and dismissive towards people who aren't giving you the answer you're looking for isn't really going to get you anywhere though, is it?

Having said all that what exactly were you expecting me to say to "Maybe it was something to do with your bad attitude"?

Promac

menoscemo wrote: »

Steviecakes is right, you're attitude is very bad.

We all have bad days and sometimes there is no explaination

You original post gave us no clues to work on except you mentioning that you had a wendy Burger the night before. You were obviously looking for us to all come on and say the burger was the issue, which in fairness you achieved, so well done.
Personally I doubt the burger had anything to do with it.

I gave as much information as I had. I was hoping for someone to come along and tell me about something I was doing wrong that I wasn't aware of so that I could improve my running. I've no idea why you're focusing on the burger.

Promac

menoscemo wrote: »

We all have bad days and sometimes there is no explaination

That is a bull**** statement. There is an explanation for everything and you shouldn't fault me for looking for it.

dahat

Try 2 Wendy burgers the next time,see if that helps :rolleyes:

AntiVirus

Promac wrote: »

Thanks for the input but it wasn't a pacing problem. I know how to monitor my heart-rate and speed. I'm an ex-boxer. As such, I used to just put things like this down to "a bad day" but as someone who's focusing on running for now I think it's completely pointless to settle for that kind of thinking. Hence the question here.

I appreciate people trying to help but saying things like "you just had a bad day" is not helping. No-one who is serious about a sport would accept that kind of thinking.

Do you do any warm up before going for your runs?

I often do some push ups and pull ups and stretching to get me warmed up before I head out for my runs. On a few occasions I have myself feeling more tired at the half mark than usual and have had to push myself on. When I've uploaded my data I found that my heart rate was higher than normal at the start caused by my over warming up.

dahat

Promac wrote: »

That is a bull**** statement. There is an explanation for everything and you shouldn't fault me for looking for it.

People here are experienced runners and know what they are talking about,bad days happen on the road get over it.

Try listing everything you did the day or 2 before the run if that helps you

SWL

Promac wrote: »

Thanks for adding something more than just a throwaway comment and expecting adulation.

Not to mention the "do you know who I am" guy.

Here is the answer you are looking for grasshopper.
Running is a little like life, sometimes for no obvious reason it goes to sh1t, you have two choices in dealing with this turn of events

1 Shrug your shoulders and say hopefully tomorrow things will be better.

2. Or insult posters who have taken the time out of their day to give you some advice. Any advice I have received on this forum has been as accurate as it could be based on the information I provided.

Your problem could be as a result of several different things food, rest, dehydration etc., posters are not telepathic and the least you could do is to acknowledge their generosity in giving you an answer in the first place.

Promac

AntiVirus wrote: »

Do you do any warm up before going for your runs?

I often do some push ups and pull ups and stretching to get me warmed up before I head out for my runs. On a few occasions I have myself feeling more tired at the half mark than usual and have had to push myself on. When I've uploaded my data I found that my heart rate was higher than normal at the start caused by my over warming up.

Yeah, I do about 5 minutes of warm-ups before heading out - light burpees and the like to warm up muscles. I don't think stretching before a run is good for you so I don't do it.

YFlyer

The few days off had a bearing on your body. You probably became more flat.

Train most days to get your body accustomed to running. Active recovery such as an easy few Km be better then complete rest.

You need 'miles in your legs'. Build up slowly though.

Promac

dahat wrote: »

bad days happen on the road get over it.

You call that helpful in the face of what I've already said?

Some people are more scientific than that. I've tried to demonstrate that I'm one of them. "Get over it".

Promac

YFlyer wrote: »

The few days off had a bearing on your body. You probably became more flat.

Train most days to get your body accustomed to running. Active recovery such as an easy few Km be better then complete rest.

You need 'miles in your legs'. Build up slowly though.

Today is Monday, I last ran on Friday. I don't understand the term "more flat" so I've no idea if you're right nor not.

Promac

People are saying I have a bad attitude but as far as I can tell I'm just asking for advice, beyond the idea that I "just had a bad day". However I'm quite autistic so I can't say if I'm not doing smiley faces and all that usual guff that people seem to need. I thought my request was fairly straightforward.

az2wp0sye65487

Promac wrote: »

Nathalie Helpless Spruce wrote: »

I'm not an experienced athlete. I do run. I like training, I like entering races, and I like talking about it. Boards is a great place to swap ideas, stories etc. with others who are of a similar mindset.

I don't personally know any other posters here, so I can't vouch for anyone. What I can say is that having gotten advice here in the past, it's usually sound.

Being aggressive, sarcastic and dismissive towards people who aren't giving you the answer you're looking for isn't really going to get you anywhere though, is it?

Having said all that what exactly were you expecting me to say to "Maybe it was something to do with your bad attitude"?

I wasn't expecting much tbh. And look what I got!

I said that to highlight the issue.

Anyway, back on topic. You won't get the correct answer (or the answer you're looking for) here as we don't have much information about you, your fitness levels, bodily functions, diet, age, athletic capabilities, history etc etc etc. even if we had all the relevant data - I doubt there are many people here who could or would be willing to make a diagnosis.

You're looking for a scientific explanation. Go to a professional who can run tests and give you an answer.

YFlyer

Promac wrote: »

Today is Monday, I last ran on Friday. I don't understand the term "more flat" so I've no idea if you're right nor not.

Lower in energy.

You need to run more regularly.

AntiVirus

Promac wrote: »

Yeah, I do about 5 minutes of warm-ups before heading out - light burpees and the like to warm up muscles. I don't think stretching before a run is good for you so I don't do it.

Yes, I should have said some light stretching.

It's very hard to pin point exactly what caused your bad run. We've all been there and while I don't agree with the term "just a bad run", there's always a reason.

It can be as simple as being in the right mood or motivation while running, its very easy to feel something is wrong when in fact nothing is wrong. Your mind can play all kinds of tricks to get you to stop. Or even an on coming cold, flu etc.. or a restless night sleep, even though you've thought you had a good nights sleep. Even something a simple a weather conditions/temperature/wind could affect your run today. Maybe even a lack of fuel before your run?

Promac

YFlyer wrote: »

Lower in energy.

You need to run more regularly.

More regularly than twice in 3 days? So... every day?

Promac

Nathalie Helpless Spruce wrote: »

I wasn't expecting much tbh. And look what I got!

I said that to highlight the issue.

Anyway, back on topic. You won't get the correct answer (or the answer you're looking for) here as we don't have much information about you, your fitness levels, bodily functions, diet, age, athletic capabilities, history etc etc etc. even if we had all the relevant data - I doubt there are many people here who could or would be willing to make a diagnosis.

You're looking for a scientific explanation. Go to a professional who can run tests and give you an answer.

The issue is me having a bad run - unless you think the issue is my response to your post? That's extremely self-centered.

If you'd like more information just ask. I started the thread - I'm hardly going to hold back on information. I'm not going to a professional - If that was a viable option I wouldn't have posted on a forum like this would I? Isn't that completely obvious??

Promac

AntiVirus wrote: »

Yes, I should have said some light stretching.

It's very hard to pin point exactly what caused your bad run. We've all been there and while I don't agree with the term "just a bad run", there's always a reason.

That's exactly what I'm talking about - why is that so hard for other people here? I only posted the thread in the first place because I thought someone here might have an idea what the reason is for "just a bad run".

az2wp0sye65487

Promac wrote: »

The issue is me having a bad run - unless you think the issue is my response to your post? That's extremely self-centered.

If you'd like more information just ask. I started the thread - I'm hardly going to hold back on information. I'm not going to a professional - If that was a viable option I wouldn't have posted on a forum like this would I? Isn't that completely obvious??

There's no point in asking for more info as I explained above. The question you're asking is one that can't really be answered here. It would be like going to the 'motors' forum and saying "my car cut out this morning... Any ideas why??" you would be told to take it to a mechanic to diagnose the problem.

The best advice you'll get here is (bearing in mind you are looking for a scientific answer) that if you step back and look at it coldly.... Your body is like a finely tuned machine... It requires various things in order to perform at the most efficient levels. The correct fuel (food and water), maintenance, repairs etc. but keep in mind that external factors can impact performance too...

Did you run a new route with more hills? Were you wearing different shoes? Did you have a drink over the weekend? Did your Wendy's burger upset your stomach? Are you sure you were properly hydrated? Did you sleep well? Are you coming down with a cold? Any underlying medical issues? .....

The list goes on.

I'm not looking for an argument. Just trying to make you realise that people here will be more willing to help if you are civil.

YFlyer

Promac wrote: »

More regularly than twice in 3 days? So... every day?

Six days a week. Have easy days after harder days. Built up to it slowly over a few weeks.

Running with get easier then.

Promac

By your own admission you're not an experienced athlete and you pitch in with this kind of statement:

Nathalie Helpless Spruce wrote: »

Maybe it was something to do with your bad attitude

Again - what exactly do you expect me to say to you? You call that "civil"?

az2wp0sye65487

Promac wrote: »

By your own admission you're not an experienced athlete and you pitch in with this kind of statement:

Nathalie Helpless Spruce wrote: »

Maybe it was something to do with your bad attitude

Again - what exactly do you expect me to say to you? You call that "civil"?

Best of luck with your running in the future

Promac

Nathalie Helpless Spruce wrote: »

Best of luck with your running in the future

Awesome - thanks for your "contributions".

huskerdu

Promac wrote: »

You call that helpful in the face of what I've already said?

Some people are more scientific than that. I've tried to demonstrate that I'm one of them. "Get over it".

If you genuinely want to think scientifically about it, you need to accept one of the first rules of science - you have to reproduce the problem. You don't learn what caused something by observing the problem only once.

I have tried to guess that the reason why you felt flat was that you ate too much fatty heavy food the night before and I also said that you might never know why it happened.

Keep running, if you are regularly feeling flat, look for a pattern.
If it seems to be random, accept that some very experienced runners here have told you that you cant always find the answer and move on.

I hope this helps. I doubt that you will get any more answers with the rude tone of your last few posts.

ger664

There are just too many variables that can cause a bad flat run. We all get them from time to time. It can be lack of sleep, bad hydration, too many beers the weekend, wife/kids/husband/boss (delete appropriate) giving you a hard time. The list is endless.

When it happens for a couple of runs on the trot then get worried and seek professional advice. Most people here are and I include myself are not really qualified to definitely say what the problem was, and have just given our own experiences on it which was answered on the first reply to this thread.

Clearlier

Unbelievable that this one trundles on.

OP - From the information given the burger the night before is the culprit. It takes time and energy to digest that kind of food and for my own body if I eat that kind of food I know that it's going to have an impact. If that's your typical diet and you rarely eat carbohydrates then there's an outside chance you might be running short on glycogen. Given that you're running up to 6k at 6:30mins/km pace though I seriously, seriously doubt it.

There are a multitude of other potential reasons but realistically if you want to get serious about running you need to move on from this and seriously up your training levels. Not in one day or one week but over an extended period of time focus on the frequency of your runs and their duration. Do some faster stuff once a week - whatever you feel like - just get your legs to turn over a bit faster. Add in some cross training too - if you used to box then you should have a multitude of core sessions that you can pick and choose from.

P.S. However much you may dislike it the attitude that people are referring too is shouting out from most of your posts. Rugby rather than running is where I originally come from. In my experience the best players were generally the humblest - I'm seeing the same in running too. It's probably just your writing style but it puts people's backs up and it reduces your chances of getting a positive response.

Good luck with the running!

BrokenMan

One of those days is the correct answer here,and if you don't like that well that's fair enough, however your dismissive answers to people genuinely trying to help you has led to some of the later replies.

No one can give you an answer as to why you had this bad run, we are all an experiment of one.

You say that you dont accept it being one of those days and that your sceintific mind demands an answer, well it just so happens that I have a bit of a scientific mind as well. Now no one would ever attempt to make a scientific conclusion based on a single observations, would they?

So what you need to do is keep a very detailed log of everything you do, food you eat, amount of sleep you get, resting HR every morning, bowel movements, urine couour (to determine hydration levels), what stress and pressure you are under in every aspect of your day. Then log the time/duration and speed of every run you do. Running by feel isn't good enough here you will need exact data, get a garmin and HRM.
Now record after every run rate on a scale of 1-10 your percieved effort for the run and any other data relevant (wind speed and direction, gradient, temperature, etc)
After a couple of months you may have had one or two more bad runs in there, now you have somethign to look back over, are there any commonalities in the days leading up to these? Similar temperature, HR, wind speeds, alignment of planets?

Keep gathering this information for 12 months and then do a full statistical analysis on the results. You might, just might be able to see a pattern emerging.

Alternatively you could just take on the advice you already got and put it down to one of those days, as we all do, and go out tomorrow and have a great stress free run. Seriously one bad run every so often isn't worth getting worried about it could be a combination of a dozen tiny things, repeated bad runs would need looking into.

Personally I know which one I'll be doing.

walshb

myflipflops wrote: »

You say you are not a beginner athlete yet you think a Wendy burger meal counts as 'fuel'. That strikes me as strange. Then again, I've only been involved in athletics for 12 years representing my country along the way.

I tend to agree with most of you guys saying it's just an off day. But, the wendy's buger thing. Why can't that be fuel?

I have been on runs where some days after a mile I am fit to be put down, and other days after a mile I am only warming up.

walshb

OP, I am a fairly precise kind of guy and attentive to detail, but your query I would put down to a one off. Maybe sore/tired legs, maybe slept a bit funny, dodgy burger the night before etc etc. Even magically if you could look inside your body on that day, inside every muscles etc, you may not find anything out of the ordinary.

You could have come down with a very slight bug that didn't even present any symptons that day, yet it was enough to trigger a response to your running. I assume your warm up on this "bad" day was as it usually is.

Promac

I do a lot of photography in my spare time. Used to do it professionally too. If someone came back from a shoot with a photo that was really off and they didn't know why (due to lack of experience) I'd be able to look at it and tell them what happened and what they needed to do to fix the problem. If I didn't know I wouldn't say "it's just a bad day, no reason for it" because I know that's not true - not knowing the answer and saying the answer is unknowable are two completely different things. I wouldn't expect to be able to formulate a hypothesis and develop it into a theory after only 1 photograph but I would assume that someone with more experience than me would already have encountered and figured out the problem so I'd go and ask people with more experience. Photography isn't as black-box as the human body but it's a complicated system that takes a long time to master so the comparison is valid.

When it comes to running problems like this I assumed that, since people have been running since legs were invented, someone would have experience of the problem I had and would have an explanation for it.

I wasn't trying to insult or dismiss anyone, I'm just not going to gush with thanks for someone telling me to just forget about it. The whole concept of "ah sure who knows, don't think about it" is completely against any kind of scientific thinking and if we all took that approach we'd still be swinging from trees.

If you're so precious that you can't handle someone disagreeing with you or being a bit sarcastic then you should probably avoid the internet (or people in general). You really shouldn't start having a go at someone on a board like this because they probably won't respond well to it - just like I did with myflipflops and his "don't you know who I am" approach. Or steviecakes with his comment "Maybe it was something to do with your bad attitude". That's pure irony from steviecakes.

If you don't like anything I say then you're more than welcome to ignore me. I won't mind. In fact, I'll most likely be grateful if you did.