Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Amazotheamazing · 04-04-2012 05:48PM

Tox56 wrote: »

Earls's case is different, he is so versatile it also means that it's hard for him to nail down one position.

If he tries to nail down 13 (as he says he wants to) but isn't the best 13 available (which is more than possible), you can't just shunt him out to the wing for the sake of keeping him on the pitch because, A) It would be denying full-time wingers their chance, and He probably wouldn't have played there frequently enough to warrant starting over regular wingers.

Laulala coming to Munster will be interesting, as will DK's selection around NZ (although that will probably be less interesting..).

It's not about fairness. The best players get to start, not those who've plugged away on the wings all season. If Earls isn't the best option for wing or 13, don't play him, but right now, he is. He's a key player for us now.

Tox56 · 04-04-2012 05:52PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

It's not about fairness. The best players get to start, not those who've plugged away on the wings all season. If Earls isn't the best option for wing or 13, don't play him, but right now, he is. He's a key player for us now.

Well that's pretty much what I meant, someone like Fitz or Trimble playing wing regularly are probably better options on the wing than someone like Earls who (hypothetically) hadn't played there for months.

Amazotheamazing · 04-04-2012 05:59PM

Tox56 wrote: »

Well that's pretty much what I meant, someone like Fitz or Trimble playing wing regularly are probably better options on the wing than someone like Earls who (hypothetically) hadn't played there for months.

Even though I know Leinster fans really want to hold on to Fitz, I wonder if he'd be better off moving somewhere he can play centre. I don't think he has the pace anymore to be a top level winger. Leinster have only so many games they can give to any one centre in a given year.

I'd love to see Fitz off in France for a few years and then come back to Leinster when BOD retires.

irishbucsfan · 04-04-2012 06:13PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Even though I know Leinster fans really want to hold on to Fitz, I wonder if he'd be better off moving somewhere he can play centre. I don't think he has the pace anymore to be a top level winger. Leinster have only so many games they can give to any one centre in a given year.

I'd love to see Fitz off in France for a few years and then come back to Leinster when BOD retires.

Fitzgerald has scored tries from his own 22 this season. He's not lightning but he's not "too slow."

For me, I see Earls as a 13. I think he should stick it out there and when BOD goes he will probably be our best option. I don't want to see Earls bouncing around positions any more because his form drops every time it happens.

As for Fitzgerald, I'd love to see him play 12. He doesn't like it though. Given his form at 11 this season there's not a doubt in my mind that he can be a world class 11 either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ept4C0RfQs

Although in the short term I think Earls could well be moving back to 11 in which case I think he'll start for Ireland there.

Clegg · 04-04-2012 06:22PM

I really don't see Earls as a better option than Cave. The only advantage Earls has is pace. Other than that, Cave is the superior player at 13.

If Ireland wanted to make the best use of its resources then we should have Earls and Bowe on either wing. Mc Fadden or Fitz at 12 and Cave at 13. That makes the most sense to me, at least.

finatron · 04-04-2012 08:03PM

I'm getting tired of the earls debate . Before the 6nations all the talk was about his defence was't good enough and he would be found out at this level and what happend he was 1 of Irelands standout players and was more than match for any center in the 6nations .

Tox56 · 04-04-2012 08:24PM

finatron wrote: »

I'm getting tired of the earls debate . Before the 6nations all the talk was about his defence was't good enough and he would be found out at this level and what happend he was 1 of Irelands standout players and was more than match for any center in the 6nations .

Maybe in your opinion he was standout but in my opinion he was 'improved'. Should we be criticised for looking for the best player for the position?

Clegg · 04-04-2012 08:42PM

I wasn't criticising Earls. He's improved a lot over the complete rubbish he was against Castres earlier this season. However Cave is the better centre. Earls is the best wing we have after Bowe and wing is where I'd like to see him play.

I'm not worried about Earls playing 13 any more as he's proven he can do a good job there. But Cave would still be my choice for 13 in the years ahead for Ireland.

totallegend · 04-04-2012 08:46PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Even though I know Leinster fans really want to hold on to Fitz, I wonder if he'd be better off moving somewhere he can play centre. I don't think he has the pace anymore to be a top level winger. Leinster have only so many games they can give to any one centre in a given year.

I'd love to see Fitz off in France for a few years and then come back to Leinster when BOD retires.

OK, this is the Munster thread so we're off topic, but if you're first-choice winger for the best team in Europe, why would you be looking for a move to somewhere you may or not be picked in an unfamiliar position? Bizarre.

PhatPiggins · 04-04-2012 09:27PM

Tox56 wrote: »

Also, Downey is only 1 year younger than D'Arcy, and is far more one-dimensional, his time has passed I feel.

Maybe but D'Arcy has been playing professional rugby non stop pretty much since he was 19. His body is wrecked.

Downey has only played consistently since he moved to Northampton. He has a lot less millage on the clock. D'Arcy has maybe one more season in him. Downey has a minimum of 3.

Lots of Leinster fans 'concerned' with James Downey on this thread. Its getting a bit old.

Clegg · 04-04-2012 09:36PM

I'm not concerned about Downey, at all.

He's a bosher with very little skill.

He's like Jamie Roberts minus the talent.

He'll be a good signing for Munster if he consistantly makes it over the gainline. But even then I still have my doubts about Munsters backline as a whole. Munster have talented individuals but their backs coaching is appalling. They rarely play as a unit and their backs lack penetration as a result.

totallegend · 04-04-2012 09:37PM

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Lots of Leinster fans 'concerned' with James Downey on this thread. Its getting a bit old.

I don't think any of the Leinster fans are concerned with Downey at all; it's just a bit odd to be talking about it "being time to try out" an uncapped 31-year old in the Irish jersey.

Tox56 · 04-04-2012 09:46PM

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Tox56 wrote: »

Also, Downey is only 1 year younger than D'Arcy, and is far more one-dimensional, his time has passed I feel.

Maybe but D'Arcy has been playing professional rugby non stop pretty much since he was 19. His body is wrecked.

Downey has only played consistently since he moved to Northampton. He has a lot less millage on the clock. D'Arcy has maybe one more season in him. Downey has a minimum of 3.

Lots of Leinster fans 'concerned' with James Downey on this thread. Its getting a bit old.

I don't know where the idea behind the last paragraph came from but read the post above for explanation.

PhatPiggins · 04-04-2012 11:10PM

Clegg wrote: »

I'm not concerned about Downey, at all.

He's a bosher with very little skill.

He's like Jamie Roberts minus the talent.

He'll be a good signing for Munster if he consistantly makes it over the gainline. But even then I still have my doubts about Munsters backline as a whole. Munster have talented individuals but their backs coaching is appalling. They rarely play as a unit and their backs lack penetration as a result.

You've seen who our backs coach is. One of the biggest jokes of the Munster coaching set up has to have been appointing Laurie Fisher a really talented backs coach as the forwards coach and having Jason Holland a coach with little pedigree and a bosh mercant of a player as the backs coach. I dispair.

With regard the D'Arcy/Downey stuff I didn't read the previous page so wasn't aware of the Downey for Ireland quote,apologies I didn't realise the context of the concerned Leinster fans quotes

That said I'd play almost anyone at 12 over D'Arcy these days. I hate seeing a top class player and a great servant to Ireland being flogged when he's past his best. Worse still the casual fan only has a 12 month memory.

thomond2006 · 04-04-2012 11:13PM

Where was Laurie Fisher a backs coach phat? Just curious.

PhatPiggins · 04-04-2012 11:31PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Where was Laurie Fisher a backs coach phat? Just curious.

During his first stint at the Brumbies when he was assistant coach. For some reason he took over forwards coach when he took the head job at the Brumbies and it was all down hill from there. I see he's back coaching the Brumbies forwards so there's a strong possibility I'm talking out of my ass :pac:

[Jackass] · 05-04-2012 02:01AM

totallegend wrote: »

OK, this is the Munster thread so we're off topic, but if you're first-choice winger for the best team in Europe, why would you be looking for a move to somewhere you may or not be picked in an unfamiliar position? Bizarre.

Every Leinster player, be it academy player, squad player, up and coming player or star player should move somewhere else for one reason or another... (they've too many in that position, he wont get game time, we need someone there, he should play this position, he's not as good as he used to be....he's stifling growth...it's ruining Irish rugby....)

Haters gonna hate.

sorry for off-topicness....carry on....

Benny Cake · 05-04-2012 07:38AM

[Jackass] wrote: »

Every Leinster player, be it academy player, squad player, up and coming player or star player should move somewhere else for one reason or another... (they've too many in that position, he wont get game time, we need someone there, he should play this position, he's not as good as he used to be....he's stifling growth...it's ruining Irish rugby....)

Haters gonna hate.

sorry for off-topicness....carry on....

Get over yourself mate, the poster simply questioned if Fitz' future would be better served as a centre due to the plethora of wingers coming through. This is a discussion forum after all........

justsomebloke · 05-04-2012 08:15AM

ok lads can we keep this thread on topic please

Amazotheamazing · 05-04-2012 09:20AM

[Jackass] wrote: »

Every Leinster player, be it academy player, squad player, up and coming player or star player should move somewhere else for one reason or another... (they've too many in that position, he wont get game time, we need someone there, he should play this position, he's not as good as he used to be....he's stifling growth...it's ruining Irish rugby....)

Haters gonna hate.

sorry for off-topicness....carry on....

I don't see it as much different to people saying Ryan should have left Munster etc. What's good for the province isn't always best for the player or for Irish rugby. How bad would it be if Jones was still in Leinster or Cronin and Reddan still on a bench in Munster? People will say he should stay because he's starting, but I'd rather he moved if it meant he could play in a position that might suit him and Ireland more. I don't think it's that off topic either. It's a regular thing that guys like Nagle should move on etc.

05-04-2012 09:44AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I don't see it as much different to people saying Ryan should have left Munster etc. What's good for the province isn't always best for the player or for Irish rugby. How bad would it be if Jones was still in Leinster or Cronin and Reddan still on a bench in Munster? People will say he should stay because he's starting, but I'd rather he moved if it meant he could play in a position that might suit him and Ireland more. I don't think it's that off topic either. It's a regular thing that guys like Nagle should move on etc.

not one of those players were first choice though. Fitz is

Amazotheamazing · 05-04-2012 09:54AM

Deleted User wrote: »

not one of those players were first choice though. Fitz is

Indeed, but not as a centre, where I'd rather see him play. I genuinely don't think he has the pace anymore to be a top level winger. Not when you see the pace of guys coming through, but he has the full set of skills needed to be a centre. It's just an aside, it's not like I'm going to call around to his house and talk him into it or anything. Imagine him tearing up the top14 and then coming back, would be win win.

Just to be clear, I think there's a few guys across the provinces who would be well served by moving, not just fitz.

NikNak8 · 05-04-2012 10:00AM

Deleted User wrote: »

not one of those players were first choice though. Fitz is

Not for Ireland though and I think that is the point. If he could get game time in centre he could be.

NikNak8 · 05-04-2012 10:03AM

I have a feeling that Wallace will start on Sunday. Wally, O'Mahony, Coughlan backrow with Ryan and O'Connell in the Row would be promising! Hope Wally can raise his game from his recent outings but I'm sure he can.
Hurley or Murphy on the wing?

05-04-2012 10:04AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Indeed, but not as a centre, where I'd rather see him play. I genuinely don't think he has the pace anymore to be a top level winger. Not when you see the pace of guys coming through, but he has the full set of skills needed to be a centre. It's just an aside, it's not like I'm going to call around to his house and talk him into it or anything. Imagine him tearing up the top14 and then coming back, would be win win.

Just to be clear, I think there's a few guys across the provinces who would be well served by moving, not just fitz.

I really like the idea of Fitz as a centre. I thought he was great at 12 when I saw him in early September tbh.

I remember him saying he wasn't into it, but I think he backtracked that a few weeks later, he fought his way into form at 12 imo. I think he realised that.

However, I don't see him actively searching out a contract elsewhere when he's involved at 11 for Leinster in any major game. I also think that suggestions of playing outside of Ireland to further Irish ambitions are way off.

When D'Arcy hangs up his boots, we may see Fitz get some more gametime in the centre, but until then, he's going to have to try and get better than Trimble and Earls if he want's an Irish slot.

Amazotheamazing · 05-04-2012 10:09AM

NikNak8 wrote: »

I have a feeling that Wallace will start on Sunday. Wally, O'Mahony, Coughlan backrow with Ryan and O'Connell in the Row would be promising! Hope Wally can raise his game from his recent outings but I'm sure he can.
Hurley or Murphy on the wing?

Rumour going round it's TOD, POM and Coughlan with Ryan in the second row. Not sure how I'd feel about it tbh. I'm trying to remember who played 6 when DOCv2.0 went off last week. Did POM switch back? If we do start TOD at 6, he'll be arguably be our fifth choce player playing (behind POM, Leamy, Ryan, DOCv2.0) there. Some season for injuries and changes.

Amazotheamazing · 05-04-2012 10:10AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I really like the idea of Fitz as a centre. I thought he was great at 12 when I saw him in early September tbh.

I remember him saying he wasn't into it, but I think he backtracked that a few weeks later, he fought his way into form at 12 imo. I think he realised that.

However, I don't see him actively searching out a contract elsewhere when he's involved at 11 for Leinster in any major game. I also think that suggestions of playing outside of Ireland to further Irish ambitions are way off.

When D'Arcy hangs up his boots, we may see Fitz get some more gametime in the centre, but until then, he's going to have to try and get better than Trimble and Earls if he want's an Irish slot.

We might, but d'Arcy is in poor form and still guys like Fitz can't get into the centre ahead of him, it's frustrating from an Irish pov, even if I see Fitz more as a 13 than a 12.

Tox56 · 05-04-2012 10:10AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Rumour going round it's TOD, POM and Coughlan with Ryan in the second row. Not sure how I'd feel about it tbh. I'm trying to remember who played 6 when DOCv2.0 went off last week. Did POM switch back? If we do start TOD at 6, he'll be arguably be our fifth choce player playing (behind POM, Leamy, Ryan, DOCv2.0) there. Some season for injuries and changes.

Isn't it a virtual certainty if POM and TOD are playing, TOD is 7 and POM is 6?

05-04-2012 10:13AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

We might, but d'Arcy is in poor form and still guys like Fitz can't get into the centre ahead of him, it's frustrating from an Irish pov, even if I see Fitz more as a 13 than a 12.

D'Arcy is not in poor form in Blue though. The game that they play suits him far far better.

He's not a bash'em centre.

Amazotheamazing · 05-04-2012 10:14AM

Tox56 wrote: »

Isn't it a virtual certainty if POM and TOD are playing, TOD is 7 and POM is 6?

Not really. Both in theory cover the entire backrow, having playing all the positions at one time or other for their clubs. I think POM is a better 6 and a better 7 than TOD, but TOD always looks more like a 6 to me.

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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