Yes Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool are done. MOD POST #425 ALL READ

Morricone · 03-04-2012 03:22PM

#15 wrote: »

'Net spend' is an answer to a question about relative investment in each club.
So yeah, LFC have had less to spend than some other clubs, in net terms.

But that's not relevant to the discussion.

£100 million was generated through sales and investment, and subsequently spent on incoming players. People are saying that the players brought in for that £100 million were substandard.

Having a low net spend is not a defence for poor signings.

If anything, it makes it almost essential to get those signings right in the first place.

Fair enough. But people use the £100 million figure to castigate Kenny when his signings have been pretty much 50/50 hit or miss wise.

Suarez- Hit
Carroll- Miss
Enrique- Hit
Adam- Miss
Bellamy- Hit
Downing- Miss
Coates- Hit, just about but perhaps to early to judge
Henderson- Miss. But he is to miss as to what Coates is to hit.

We sold out best player last season in Meireles. We sold Torres who win he left us was bang in form and still one of the best strikers in the world.

We lost, and this isn't hyperbole, the best defensive/central midfielder in the league at the end of November and he's been a massive, massive loss. Huge, in fact things went pear shaped when he got injured. When he comes back for next season it'll be like a new signing.

Carroll has been a poor signing as has Downing there is no disputing that while Adam has been atrocious. These players don't do well under the intense pressure that comes with being at Anfield.

Kenny has done a lot of good things, win the Carling cup, phased out Carragher, lessened the dependency on Gerrard.

Like in all honesty, if we win 3 or 4 of the remaining league matches to finish 7th and win the 2 cups we'll have had a great season. We really will. If that happens then 4th is imperative next season but this whole thing was never gonna happen overnight. People are forgetting that and confusing the musings of a few lunatics who thought that 'this was our year' with the musings of the reasoned LFC fan.

Mr Alan · 03-04-2012 03:26PM

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Except that cost you 100 million. And Villa never have anything close to that

You may wish to have a look into the monies Villa have spent since Lerner arrived into the club.

Helix can fill you in.

bullpost · 03-04-2012 03:29PM

Very commendable - I for one hope you keep faith with Kenny for a long time to come and persevere with Carroll and the others as well.

Morricone wrote: »

You see unlike Chelsea, here at Liverpool Football Club we like to spend within our means, be fiscally prudent and not buy and sack our way to success.

RiseToTheTop · 03-04-2012 03:30PM

IMO he should leave.

K-9 · 03-04-2012 03:35PM

Morricone wrote: »

Carroll has been a poor signing as has Downing there is no disputing that while Adam has been atrocious. These players don't do well under the intense pressure that comes with being at Anfield.

Adam was doing fine when Lucas was beside him. He's expected to do too much without him which he can't do, which given the money spent, was hardly expected.

Our big problem besides the obvious lack of goals has been no replacement of Alonso to anywhere near his level.

Sgt Pepper 64 · 03-04-2012 03:37PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

You may wish to have a look into the monies Villa have spent since Lerner arrived into the club.

Helix can fill you in.

I'm well aware of Lerners spending

But here you are specifically comparing 2011/2012 season

Villa actually lost some very good players (If you count Downing!) and made a profit
Their transfer income outweighed their outgoings.
you really cant compare the 2 clubs, but I'm also aware it was a wind up attempt

IN

Charles N'Zogbia (Wigan, £9.5m), Shay Given (Manchester City, £3.5m), Alan Hutton (Tottenham, undisclosed), Jermaine Jenas (Tottenham, loan).

OUT

Stewart Downing (Liverpool, £20m), Ashley Young (Manchester United, £16m), Luke Young (QPR, undisclosed), Jonathan Hogg (Watford, undisclosed), Brad Friedel (Tottenham, free), Nigel Reo-Coker (Bolton, free), John Carew (West Ham, free), Robert Pires (released), Moustapha Salifou (released), Isaiah Osbourne (Hibernian, free), Andreas Weimann (Watford, loan), Jean Makoun (Olympiakos, loan).

Sgt Pepper 64 · 03-04-2012 03:43PM

K-9 wrote: »

Adam was doing fine when Lucas was beside him. He's expected to do too much without him which he can't do, which given the money spent, was hardly expected.

Our big problem besides the obvious lack of goals has been no replacement of Alonso to anywhere near his level.

IMO, losing Lucas is a big part of of the problem - key player for you this season

Samich · 03-04-2012 03:44PM

To think a few years ago Liverpools Midfield was Macherano and Alonso. Last Sunday it was Spearing and Shelvey.

K-9 · 03-04-2012 03:57PM

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

IMO, losing Lucas is a big part of of the problem - key player for you this season

Yep, barring the Spurs game we were defensively rock solid up to his injury, on course for fourth. The confidence and reassurance he gives the team is a huge loss. When you can't score goals being rock solid is pretty important!

Samich wrote: »

To think a few years ago Liverpools Midfield was Macherano and Alonso. Last Sunday it was Spearing and Shelvey.

We've 2 seasons of basically asset stripping to make up. I think Downing, Adam and Henderson can be decent squad players, just far too much paid. When you think Shelvey was bought for about £2 Million and not much younger than Henderson, it shows how much we over paid. That's one of the areas signings seem to have dried up on, 18/19 year olds for cheap money that'll take a couple of seasons to get established. Seems to be all academy youths now.

One things for sure, whoever is manager in the Summer is going to have earn their money transfer spend wise!

Mr Alan · 03-04-2012 04:04PM

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

I'm well aware of Lerners spending

But here you are specifically comparing 2011/2012 season

Villa actually lost some very good players (If you count Downing!) and made a profit
Their transfer income outweighed their outgoings.
you really cant compare the 2 clubs, but I'm also aware it was a wind up attempt

IN

Charles N'Zogbia (Wigan, £9.5m), Shay Given (Manchester City, £3.5m), Alan Hutton (Tottenham, undisclosed), Jermaine Jenas (Tottenham, loan).

OUT

Stewart Downing (Liverpool, £20m), Ashley Young (Manchester United, £16m), Luke Young (QPR, undisclosed), Jonathan Hogg (Watford, undisclosed), Brad Friedel (Tottenham, free), Nigel Reo-Coker (Bolton, free), John Carew (West Ham, free), Robert Pires (released), Moustapha Salifou (released), Isaiah Osbourne (Hibernian, free), Andreas Weimann (Watford, loan), Jean Makoun (Olympiakos, loan).

Nowhere in your post did you allude to the fact you were talking about only 1 season. Infact, surely (despite who you support), you can agree judging anything definitely in football in "one season" is ****ing idiotic, right?

Lerner has certainly tightened the purse strings considerably this year, however, my point was, when they weren't tightened, Villa were spending comparable sums of money to what Liverpool have done since Kenny arrived. Throughout that period, if they had have finished 6th-8th, won a Carling Cup & got to a minimum of an FA Cup Semi Final, Helix would have been spunking his beans all over the place. For him to pretend otherwise is embarrasing.

Yet a Liverpool manager does that in his first season & he is rightly under big pressure because of a really poor run of form in the league.

This is likely why he hates the club so much, our lowest ebb >>>> the greatest season he will likely ever experience as a Villa fan. Thems the breaks.

#15 · 03-04-2012 04:20PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

This is likely why he hates the club so much, our lowest ebb >>>> the greatest season he will likely ever experience as a Villa fan. Thems the breaks.

I don't think that's correct.

In that case, wouldn't he hate every other club that has more success than Villa?

kryogen · 03-04-2012 04:34PM

Suarez is always classed as a hit, no question among pool fans, I have been wondering lately why?

Granted he is like a poor mans Tevez of a few years back with his energy and all that, but he doesnt exactly have great numbers in terms of goals/assists does he?

Not saying he is a flop, but saying he is certainly not a big hit yet, at least on the field.

Hasnt won many games for the club or done anything to improve the clubs image off the field

missingtime · 03-04-2012 04:41PM

kryogen wrote: »

Suarez is always classed as a hit, no question among pool fans, I have been wondering lately why?

Granted he is like a poor mans Tevez of a few years back with his energy and all that, but he doesnt exactly have great numbers in terms of goals/assists does he?

Not saying he is a flop, but saying he is certainly not a big hit yet, at least on the field.

Hasnt won many games for the club or done anything to improve the clubs image off the field

Christ will ya give us something

maximoose · 03-04-2012 04:51PM

kryogen wrote: »

Suarez is always classed as a hit, no question among pool fans, I have been wondering lately why?

Granted he is like a poor mans Tevez of a few years back with his energy and all that, but he doesnt exactly have great numbers in terms of goals/assists does he?

Not saying he is a flop, but saying he is certainly not a big hit yet, at least on the field.

Hasnt won many games for the club or done anything to improve the clubs image off the field

As much as I detest Suarez, I'd agree with Pool fans that he has been a transfer success. Granted his stats aren't magnificent at the minute, but the flashes of brilliance inbetween the moments when he's trying to do everything to disgrace himself as a footballer show how great he could actually be.

He has been awfully unlucky aswell, has hit the post a ridiculous amount of times and if they had gone his way his stats would read a lot better. I think he'll come good.

....the rest of the transfers though (bar Bellamy who was free) have been atrocious buys IMO

Hannibal · 03-04-2012 04:51PM

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

I'm well aware of Lerners spending

But here you are specifically comparing 2011/2012 season

Villa actually lost some very good players (If you count Downing!) and made a profit
Their transfer income outweighed their outgoings.
you really cant compare the 2 clubs, but I'm also aware it was a wind up attempt

IN

Charles N'Zogbia (Wigan, £9.5m), Shay Given (Manchester City, £3.5m), Alan Hutton (Tottenham, undisclosed), Jermaine Jenas (Tottenham, loan).

OUT

Stewart Downing (Liverpool, £20m), Ashley Young (Manchester United, £16m), Luke Young (QPR, undisclosed), Jonathan Hogg (Watford, undisclosed), Brad Friedel (Tottenham, free), Nigel Reo-Coker (Bolton, free), John Carew (West Ham, free), Robert Pires (released), Moustapha Salifou (released), Isaiah Osbourne (Hibernian, free), Andreas Weimann (Watford, loan), Jean Makoun (Olympiakos, loan).

I know from reading a Tomkins article over a year ago that Liverpool's net spend was below Tottenham, Aston Villa and Sunderland during the Benitez era covering 6 years from 2004 until 2010.

Fuhrer · 03-04-2012 04:54PM

maximoose wrote: »

He has been awfully unlucky aswell, has hit the post a ridiculous amount of times and if they had gone his way his stats would read a lot better. I think he'll come good.

Why is constantly hitting the post seen as unlucky instead of well... bad?

Helix · 03-04-2012 05:00PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Nowhere in your post did you allude to the fact you were talking about only 1 season. Infact, surely (despite who you support), you can agree judging anything definitely in football in "one season" is ****ing idiotic, right?

Lerner has certainly tightened the purse strings considerably this year, however, my point was, when they weren't tightened, Villa were spending comparable sums of money to what Liverpool have done since Kenny arrived. Throughout that period, if they had have finished 6th-8th, won a Carling Cup & got to a minimum of an FA Cup Semi Final, Helix would have been spunking his beans all over the place. For him to pretend otherwise is embarrasing.

Yet a Liverpool manager does that in his first season & he is rightly under big pressure because of a really poor run of form in the league.

This is likely why he hates the club so much, our lowest ebb >>>> the greatest season he will likely ever experience as a Villa fan. Thems the breaks.

villa finished 6th 3 times in a row, got to a league cup final fa cup semi final and there was no bean spunking anywhere to be seen on my part though?

again why are you making this about villa? because it's not a thread about them at all. i just happen to be a villa supporter. since you've raised the last point though, wouldn't that mean that i'd hate just about every club in the top 10 of the league right now? but i dont. id have serious hate for united, the most successful team of my lifetime, but i dont.

liverpool at their lowest ebb > the greatest villa season i'll experience? you'd want to look back at some of the league tables during my lifetime chap

Helix · 03-04-2012 05:02PM

Fuhrer wrote: »

Why is constantly hitting the post seen as unlucky instead of well... bad?

never understood that myself

you never hear people saying "well he put the ball a touch over the bar 5 times and sent it an inch wide of the post 11 times this season" when they're talking about a player scoring. wide, over and off the post, they're all off target

smokedeels · 03-04-2012 05:09PM

Fuhrer wrote: »

maximoose wrote: »

He has been awfully unlucky aswell, has hit the post a ridiculous amount of times and if they had gone his way his stats would read a lot better. I think he'll come good.

Why is constantly hitting the post seen as unlucky instead of well... bad?

No idea, Liverpool's collective woodwork battering is often spoken of as unlucky but they are misses, simple as.

There are players on that team with shocking shot-conversion stats.

invinciblePRSTV · 03-04-2012 05:19PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

I'm well aware of Lerners spending

But here you are specifically comparing 2011/2012 season

Villa actually lost some very good players (If you count Downing!) and made a profit
Their transfer income outweighed their outgoings.
you really cant compare the 2 clubs, but I'm also aware it was a wind up attempt

IN

Charles N'Zogbia (Wigan, £9.5m), Shay Given (Manchester City, £3.5m), Alan Hutton (Tottenham, undisclosed), Jermaine Jenas (Tottenham, loan).

OUT

Stewart Downing (Liverpool, £20m), Ashley Young (Manchester United, £16m), Luke Young (QPR, undisclosed), Jonathan Hogg (Watford, undisclosed), Brad Friedel (Tottenham, free), Nigel Reo-Coker (Bolton, free), John Carew (West Ham, free), Robert Pires (released), Moustapha Salifou (released), Isaiah Osbourne (Hibernian, free), Andreas Weimann (Watford, loan), Jean Makoun (Olympiakos, loan).

Nowhere in your post did you allude to the fact you were talking about only 1 season. Infact, surely (despite who you support), you can agree judging anything definitely in football in "one season" is ****ing idiotic, right?

Lerner has certainly tightened the purse strings considerably this year, however, my point was, when they weren't tightened, Villa were spending comparable sums of money to what Liverpool have done since Kenny arrived. Throughout that period, if they had have finished 6th-8th, won a Carling Cup & got to a minimum of an FA Cup Semi Final, Helix would have been spunking his beans all over the place. For him to pretend otherwise is embarrasing.

Yet a Liverpool manager does that in his first season & he is rightly under big pressure because of a really poor run of form in the league.

This is likely why he hates the club so much, our lowest ebb >>>> the greatest season he will likely ever experience as a Villa fan. Thems the breaks.

LOL, ,someone's still a bit precious and upset by being pwned by Villa fans all those summers ago.

Let it go, or at least discuss it in the right thread.

ollie1 · 03-04-2012 05:21PM

maximoose wrote: »

As much as I detest Suarez, I'd agree with Pool fans that he has been a transfer success. Granted his stats aren't magnificent at the minute, but the flashes of brilliance inbetween the moments when he's trying to do everything to disgrace himself as a footballer show how great he could actually be.

He has been awfully unlucky aswell, has hit the post a ridiculous amount of times and if they had gone his way his stats would read a lot better. I think he'll come good.

....the rest of the transfers though (bar Bellamy who was free) have been atrocious buys IMO

Enrique has been a good buy and I wouldn't call him atrocious.

Nalz · 03-04-2012 05:24PM

ollie1 wrote: »

Enrique has been a good buy and I wouldn't call him atrocious.

average buy who's been well...........average.

niallo27 · 03-04-2012 05:42PM

Trilla wrote: »

average buy who's been well...........average.

He was excellent up to Christmas, he has had some poor games since then, i dont know what has happened to him.

RasTa · 03-04-2012 06:50PM

Random net spend stat

Here is the Premier League table alternate top 10, by net spend, for figures over the past five seasons, from 2007/08 to 2011/12.

Manchester City: £430.77 million

Chelsea: £159.7 million

Liverpool: £99.25 million

Sunderland: £57.6 million

Tottenham Hotspur: £49.4 million

Manchester United: £47.25 million

Swansea City: £8.25 million

Everton: £5 million

Newcastle United: -£30.25 million

Arsenal: -£31.3 million

Some high notables outside the top 10 atm are

Stoke City: £54.4 million
Aston Villa: £54.2 million

mike65 · 03-04-2012 06:55PM

Manchester City: £430.77 million and they still won't win the league this year. Wonder will we have a "Are Roberto Mancinci and Manchester City Done" thread in May?

Fuhrer · 03-04-2012 06:56PM

mike65 wrote: »

Manchester City: £430.77 million and they still won't win the league this year. Wonder will we have a "Are Roberto Mancinci and Manchester City Done" thread in May?

We have one already...

mike65 · 03-04-2012 07:07PM

Oh! I won't bother looking for it.

Samich · 03-04-2012 07:13PM

mike65 wrote: »

Oh! I won't bother looking for it.

Your post count is massive :pac:

Adolf Hipster · 03-04-2012 07:14PM

mike65 wrote: »

Manchester City: £430.77 million and they still won't win the league this year. Wonder will we have a "Are Roberto Mancinci and Manchester City Done" thread in May?

Difference is City are playing great football, United are just better.

Liverpool have been abysmal and are currently behind Newcastle who have 130m less Net Spend over the last 5 years.

kryogen · 03-04-2012 07:14PM

It actually is, its kinda impressive @Mikes post count

Yes Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool are done. MOD POST #425 *ALL READ*

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Yes Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool are done. MOD POST #425 ALL READ