Paramedics Need Stab Vests??

Hooch · 21-03-2012 01:21PM

ambo112 wrote: »

Would that be the main factor as to why there is resistance towards the idea of stab vests do you think? Because they may have to be worn all the time?

Also, what do people think about that - would it be so bad?

As Vidar said....it would have to be all or nothing. You never know when these things happen. Case in point the Garda in TC in Cork who was dragged out of the jeep at knife point last year.

How can you tell which incident needs a vest??

"Woah hold on there Knife wielding maniac, I need to don my stab vest before you stab me. Must run over to that ambulance there to put it on.......O wait who has the keys of the locker??"

ambo112 · 21-03-2012 01:27PM

Hooch wrote: »

As Vidar said....it would have to be all or nothing. You never know when these things happen. Case in point the Garda in TC in Cork who was dragged out of the jeep at knife point last year.

How can you tell which incident needs a vest??

"Woah hold on there Knife wielding maniac, I need to don my stab vest before you stab me. Must run over to that ambulance there to put it on.......O wait who has the keys of the locker??"

Ha ha ha, point taken, Well, again, if they had to be a 24/7 issue would that be the end of the world? A lot of the newer vests are very flexible and thin and could be used covertly under a shirt to keep the same image.

Hooch · 21-03-2012 01:30PM

ambo112 wrote: »

Ha ha ha, point taken, Well, again, if they had to be a 24/7 issue would that be the end of the world? A lot of the newer vests are very flexible and thin and could be used covertly under a shirt to keep the same image.

There are some great stab vests out there but it all comes down to size. Ours aren't very comfortable but they do the job. Would like lighter/thinner ones that are more practical......but as I say.....they do what they are supposed to

ambo112 · 21-03-2012 01:33PM

Does anyone know if there was any effort made in the Fire and Rescue Service to try get stab vests either the DFB or other areas?

ambo112 · 28-03-2012 03:15PM

Heard that we are due to get new uniforms from the same company that supplies the Gardaì, wonder if stab vest is part of it?

ambo112 · 01-04-2012 04:44PM

I was told that NASRA were looking at the issue of vests - anyone heard the same?

meathstevie · 01-04-2012 08:22PM

Just on a sideline; when as ambulance personel you get to cope with an unacceptable level of aggression can you not just abandon the call/patient as he/she violently refused treatment ?

Take the example of a violent drunk with a burst eyebrow or a broken nose looking for a fight with emt's. Just walk away and leave him/her to it, his/her actions speak for themselves as in a clear refusal of treatment.

Not all situations are the same and exceptions will have to be made for the likes of mental health issues etc etc but ultimately you have to think about number one first.

ambo112 · 01-04-2012 09:29PM

meathstevie wrote: »

Just on a sideline; when as ambulance personel you get to cope with an unacceptable level of aggression can you not just abandon the call/patient as he/she violently refused treatment ?

Take the example of a violent drunk with a burst eyebrow or a broken nose looking for a fight with emt's. Just walk away and leave him/her to it, his/her actions speak for themselves as in a clear refusal of treatment.

Not all situations are the same and exceptions will have to be made for the likes of mental health issues etc etc but ultimately you have to think about number one first.

I agree, we are able to; and should leave the situation but the vest would be used to protect us against a sudden burst of violence that cannot be expected, this is where most ambulance staff injuries occur, any other time we would just retreat from the scene immediately.

jumpguy · 02-04-2012 02:32PM

Hooch wrote: »

As Vidar said....it would have to be all or nothing. You never know when these things happen. Case in point the Garda in TC in Cork who was dragged out of the jeep at knife point last year.

How can you tell which incident needs a vest??

"Woah hold on there Knife wielding maniac, I need to don my stab vest before you stab me. Must run over to that ambulance there to put it on.......O wait who has the keys of the locker??"

Ignoring the hyperbole, I don't see what is wrong if vests were available to paramedics and can be used at their discretion. I don't think it's an all or nothing situation. Everyone has a bit of common sense, you will probably know the call-outs when you're most likely to be assaulted. That would be for example going to a rough part of the town/city or going to some drunken idiot-fest somewhere.

Yes, there may be one or two exceptional occasions that one wouldn't expect to need stab vests at when they actually do, but they'd surely be in the minority and hence stab-vests-at-discretion could only do more good than harm. Even if stabbing is not at a high rate in the ambulance service, assault is and having vests would only add to the peace of mind of paramedics.

ambo112 · 02-04-2012 03:19PM

jumpguy wrote: »

Hooch wrote: »

As Vidar said....it would have to be all or nothing. You never know when these things happen. Case in point the Garda in TC in Cork who was dragged out of the jeep at knife point last year.

How can you tell which incident needs a vest??

"Woah hold on there Knife wielding maniac, I need to don my stab vest before you stab me. Must run over to that ambulance there to put it on.......O wait who has the keys of the locker??"

Ignoring the hyperbole, I don't see what is wrong if vests were available to paramedics and can be used at their discretion. I don't think it's an all or nothing situation. Everyone has a bit of common sense, you will probably know the call-outs when you're most likely to be assaulted. That would be for example going to a rough part of the town/city or going to some drunken idiot-fest somewhere.

Yes, there may be one or two exceptional occasions that one wouldn't expect to need stab vests at when they actually do, but they'd surely be in the minority and hence stab-vests-at-discretion could only do more good than harm. Even if stabbing is not at a high rate in the ambulance service, assault is and having vests would only add to the peace of mind of paramedics.

Agreed :-)

ambo112 · 03-04-2012 10:34AM

Anyone know if its possible to contact the HSA anonymously?

TylerIE · 03-04-2012 11:03AM

As others have said its not just stabbing that they protect from. They provide great padding or dispersion against punches, headbutts, kicks, pushes, etc.

granted they aint comfortable but HSE / DFB staff, could be issued the overt models that they could just apply on arrival to all incidents. Not wearing them while travelling out would reduce the discomfort from long term wear, and theres a little more space in an ambulance to apply them than there is in a Garda car.

As others have said you cant predict when you need them - Im sure many of our healthcare providers on the forum have met patients with dementia who have a fondness for sharp objects and throwing punches.

ambo112 · 03-04-2012 12:43PM

London's newest edition to their uniform:
MED%20VEST3.jpg

Very practical, any views?

Tango Alpha 51 · 03-04-2012 04:10PM

A) not a stab vest &

having worn something similar for nearly 3 years, I find it practical for most calls

ambo112 · 03-04-2012 04:32PM

Tango Alpha 51 wrote: »

A) not a stab vest & having worn something similar for nearly 3 years, I find it practical for most calls

I didn't realise it wasn't a stab vest, are you NAS? I haven't seen any issue of a vest of any type :-)

Belfastmedic · 08-04-2012 10:13PM

vidar wrote: »

To be honest i think this is the worst thin g you could do, im with coach on this one, i see other members walking around thinking ill put it on when orif i need it and at that stage its too late.

Vest is another item of PPE, would you go near a pt without gloves on saying ah sure ill put them on if he starts to bleed?

Well said

ambo112 · 27-04-2012 03:12PM

Would most people agree that the fact that it may need to be worn on a 24/7 basis would be the main reason why they would not like the idea of vests being issued?

Harry Bosch. · 28-04-2012 04:54PM

I believe that all frontline paramedics should have them, but try and get the powers to be to sanction them. Like AGS you have management who will simply not move with the times, its public perception versus operational needs, and we know what will win.

ambo112 · 18-05-2012 11:58AM

Any change in views on stab vest considering the new framework currently going through IARC has a lot of solo responder ideas.

More people will be attending calls by themselves...

Pappa Charlie · 18-05-2012 01:26PM

ambo112 wrote: »

Any change in views on stab vest considering the new framework currently going through IARC has a lot of solo responder ideas.

More people will be attending calls by themselves...

If theres a need for a stab vest surely there is a need for a baton or pepper spray?

TylerIE · 18-05-2012 01:41PM

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

If theres a need for a stab vest surely there is a need for a baton or pepper spray?

A baton or pepper spray require training and refresher courses and really only are used by law enforcement personnell who cant always just run away when violence erupts. Their use can cause a relatively mild incident to become inflamed. I dont know any Civilian Ambulance service in the western world where Fire/ Ambulance personnel carry weaponry as part of their issued PPE.

Compare this to ambulance personnell who will be given some limited protection by a vest if they are in close quarters with an attacker - if they are able to get the space needed to use an asp or spray then they can probably attempt to escape the situation.

Harry Bosch. · 18-05-2012 07:36PM

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

If theres a need for a stab vest surely there is a need for a baton or pepper spray?

There is no need for Pepper Spray and a baton, you simply call AGS! The stab vest would come under PPE.

ambo112 · 18-05-2012 07:40PM

Harry Bosch. wrote: »

There is no need for Pepper Spray and a baton, you simply call AGS! The stab vest would come under PPE.

Agreed, we don't have the unenviable task of having to confront violent individuals, or arrest them.

A vest would provide protection against a sudden or unseen attack and enable to flee uninjured, hopefully.

Tango Alpha 51 · 23-05-2012 09:07AM

Yes Ambo, I'm NAS & the vest wasn't official issue

still can't see management bringing them in anytime soon

ambo112 · 24-05-2012 04:48PM

Have you found many others following the same trend and getting equipment vest?

I would like to see them as an option, or stab and equipment vest combo. Majority of European ambulance services have equipment vests.

Current uniform is not at all practical.

ambo112 · 22-06-2012 01:51PM

Heard a rumour that the HSA were looking into this again, anyone heard this?

ambo112 · 04-08-2012 07:29PM

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0724/man-jailed-for-attack-on-paramedics.html

Any views?

guttenberg · 04-08-2012 09:51PM

The stab vests wouldn't really have made much difference in that case IMO. People have less respect for the emergency services, and things like this have sadly become the norm. In that particular case it is obvious that time in prison hasn't helped him and only made him worse, tougher sentences don't always work, better deterrents are needed, but what they are is key.

ambo112 · 10-09-2012 11:18PM

Looks like we have the evidence now, will management and the HSA see the light??

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/alarming-rise-in-knife-crime-3126470.html

Mycroft H · 11-09-2012 01:28PM

It would have to be all or nothing if it's worn. Part of standard PPE if it comes into force.

Paramedics Need Stab Vests??

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