The war in Libya continues.

Dr Albert S Meinheimer · 04-02-2012 9:04pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

It was a simple question the answer for which I'm interested in.

Wouldn't dollar devaluation be good for US exports and paying back of dollar denominated debt?

Not so

www.salem-news.com/articles/february032012/Iran-gold-jm.php

southsiderosie · 04-02-2012 9:21pm

Dr Albert S Meinheimer wrote: »

It's not a conspiracy theory.it's very real.It's an unpopular opinion and therefore here.
It's a valid founded belief that this is where the global markets will invariably be heading.
If you were more in touch with world affairs you might not be so convinced that it's "smoke and mirrors"
if you can offer one shred of evidence to dismiss as you refer to it the "conspiracy theory' outright then you are in a position to lecture and admonish people who post views that may have a valid basis but different to your own.
Moderator or not.

If you have an issue with moderation, take it to PM, don't post it on thread.

Means Of Escape · 04-02-2012 10:24pm

Scofflaw wrote: »

me_bolly, stop posting conspiracy theory stuff. There's a forum for that. Don't do it again. If you can't prove your personal "it's all smoke and mirrors" take on a situation, don't bother posting it here.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Smoke n mirrors!!!???

Kir-t34.livejournal.com/14869.HTML

AlekSmart · 05-02-2012 12:20am

Jonny7 wrote: »

Gaddafi's Gold Dinar was just a proposal. Anything hinting otherwise is a conspiracy theory.

Very true indeed.

The main problem was in Gadaffi's self-confidence and his ever increasing ability to get other African peoples (if not their leaders) on message with him.

It could be argued that the concpiracies only really began after the UN's decision to get involved in Libya....up until then it's argueable that Gadaffi might well have seen his "Monster" off ?

Means Of Escape · 05-02-2012 1:05am

AlekSmart wrote: »

Very true indeed.

The main problem was in Gadaffi's self-confidence and his ever increasing ability to get other African peoples (if not their leaders) on message with him.

It could be argued that the concpiracies only really began after the UN's decision to get involved in Libya....up until then it's argueable that Gadaffi might well have seen his "Monster" off ?

Incorrect
The idea of a gold dinar is over ten years old.
One would be really naive to assume that NATO solely entered into a war with Libya on fears that he would introduce the gold dinar and in turn devalue the dollar
The possibility that it was one factor cannot be ignored.
Unseating a tyrant?Yet only 5 years ago European leaders were prepared to do business again with him?Come on
The monster he referred to are the tribes who we now see emerging with a new sinister agenda.
You knew that right!?Maybe not.

southsiderosie · 05-02-2012 1:18am

me bolly wrote: »

Incorrect
The idea of a gold dinar is over ten years old.
One would be really naive to assume that NATO solely entered into a war with Libya on fears that he would introduce the gold dinar and in turn devalue the dollar
The possibility that it was one factor cannot be ignored.

Actually I think it can, given that we've seen nothing to suggest that this was any more of a serious proposal than the Amero - something that was talked about wishfully (and ranted about angrily), but never had any serious widespread popular or political support.

Means Of Escape · 05-02-2012 1:19am

southsiderosie wrote: »

If you have an issue with moderation, take it to PM, don't post it on thread.

I am the one who has an issue with your style of aggressive moderation.
Curtailing my opinion on this issue and dismissing it as a conspiracy theory when it is clear that you haven't a clue about the topic.
You are obviously getting half baked snippets of information on the integral part of the post and coupled with unbridled arrogance feel that you can brush aside in a dogmatic manner any idea or opinion that is contrary to yours.

Off the high horse chief and take off the pseudo intellectual hat and join the debate by bringing something of substance to the table.

AlekSmart · 05-02-2012 1:50pm

me bolly wrote: »

Incorrect
The idea of a gold dinar is over ten years old.
One would be really naive to assume that NATO solely entered into a war with Libya on fears that he would introduce the gold dinar and in turn devalue the dollar
The possibility that it was one factor cannot be ignored.
Unseating a tyrant?Yet only 5 years ago European leaders were prepared to do business again with him?Come on
The monster he referred to are the tribes who we now see emerging with a new sinister agenda.
You knew that right!?Maybe not.

Oddly enough,despite recieving a belt of me bolly's brolly,I tend to agree with the thrust of the post.

I know the timeline surrounding the Gold Dinar,but I believe Gadaffi had progressed much further,even if only in his own mind,with where this would bring Libya.

Gadaffi was perhaps the only leader in the region with the capability to effectively disentangle an African country from the endless requirement for "Aid",in whatever form the West offered it.

My belief is that the decision by Gadaffi to fund a Pan African Communications Satellite certainly spooked some movers n shakers,which when added to the currency issue,ensured that his,and Libya's card was firmly marked.

The notion of a United Nations becoming all concerned about the potential fate of Libyan civillians and moving to protect them has been quite firmly debunked by the current Syrian situation,where we see the potential dead Libyan civillians replaced by large numbers of Actual dead Syrian civillians but,as yet,no rush of blood to the UN/NATO head.

The need to depose Gadaffi was,for reasons as yet unstipulated,far more pressing than similarly addressing Al-Assad.

Bashir Al-Assad for all his power and influence,sure ain't no Muammar Gadaffi,which,for now,has saved his bacon !

goose2005 · 05-02-2012 3:47pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

The notion of a United Nations becoming all concerned about the potential fate of Libyan civillians and moving to protect them has been quite firmly debunked by the current Syrian situation,where we see the potential dead Libyan civillians replaced by large numbers of Actual dead Syrian civillians but,as yet,no rush of blood to the UN/NATO head.

There is as yet no Syrian rebellion to support.

Gadaffi was perhaps the only leader in the region with the capability to effectively disentangle an African country from the endless requirement for "Aid",in whatever form the West offered it.

Gadaffi had decades to build a functioning economy and failed, despite a neverending stream of easy money. The only reason they didn't need aid was low population and lots of oil money.

Means Of Escape · 05-02-2012 4:05pm

goose2005 wrote: »

There is as yet no Syrian rebellion to support.

Incorrect
Former military commander Riad Al-Asaad is leading a rebellion

AlekSmart · 05-02-2012 6:56pm

goose2005 wrote: »

There is as yet no Syrian rebellion to support.

From what we are given to understand in information coming from Syria,this current unrest has long ago far surpassed the alleged actions which inspired the UN to deploy NATO forces to effect regime change in Libya....Is an actually dead Syrian civillian worth less than a potentially dead Libyan civillian ?

Why the huge difference in standards required for UN action in this case ?

Gadaffi had decades to build a functioning economy and failed, despite a neverending stream of easy money. The only reason they didn't need aid was low population and lots of oil money.

Arguable,to my way of thinking.

The very fact that Libya had "a never ending stream of easy money" is surely a tacit admission that Libya's economy was a functional one,albeit not of the Knowledged Based type Ireland is possessed of.

Is there a suggestion that the Major Oil Companies queue up to offer Oil Producing States more money than they demand ?

The fact that Libya did'nt need Outside aid is also,given it's geographical location,very great testimony to it's leadership doing something right.

It appears to ruffle some feathers that Gadaffi had the foresight and means to devise,construct and deliver schemes such as "The Great Manmade River" project,rather than conform to the central casting role demanded of him,by spending his country's wealth on a orbiting Death Ray machine ?

Oddly enough,a great amount of the statistics which were available on-line in relation to Libyan development contracts going forward to 2030 have disappeared in the current revisionist atmosphere.

I had come across some substantial tender information outlining several Billion US$ worth of tenders for infrastructural projects such as Railways,Housing,Communications.

Many of the contracts were it appears won by Chinese consortia,and were all due to start in or around 2011/12.

Sadly I did'nt save the details so it's all probably plausibly deniable by now ?

However I would suggest that the Libyan economy was functional enough to sustain it's own people,and significant numbers of it's neighbours as well !!

Dubhlinner · 05-02-2012 10:09pm

Looks to me that the nato invasion has effectively reduced Libya to similarly resourced nigeria.

Well done lads.

hmmm · 05-02-2012 10:46pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Why the huge difference in standards required for UN action in this case ?

For a start, the veto from the great socialist states of China & Russia.

Eggy Baby! · 09-02-2012 1:26am

hmmm wrote: »

For a start, the veto from the great socialist states of China & Russia.

Russia isn't socialist......in fact, it was too capitalist at one stage...

And China isn't either....its essentially a capitalist in communist's clothing.

RichieC · 09-02-2012 1:53am

I dont think weve learned anything from the iraq debacle.. I was called a CTer back then for doubting the threats of mushroom bombs and generally doubting the US motives, calling the war a mistake... A few years later once the facts were my loudest detractors were calling for Bush's head louder than I was.

Here we are again.. Everything heading towards a giant poo sandwich. Extremists handed libya, a push to hand them syria, Egypt already going to the dogs and the drums of war banging for Iran.

It boils my blood that even now a link to US sources is still acceptable. I think it incredible that people cannot see whats going on here

RichieC · 09-02-2012 2:05am

No much talk on here about yemen or "business friendly" Bahrain

AlekSmart · 09-02-2012 7:41am

RichieC wrote: »

No much talk on here about yemen or "business friendly" Bahrain

Ah c'mon RichieC...They're ...."Different"...just like Syria and they don't have suitably mad looking leaders to merit No-Fly zones.

Jaafa · 06-03-2012 10:47pm

And so the break up of Libya continues.

Tribal leaders and militia commanders in oil-rich eastern Libya have declared their intention to seek semi-autonomy, raising fears that the country might disintegrate following the overthrow of Muammar Gaddafi.

Thousands of representatives of major tribal leaders, militia commanders and politicians made the declaration on Tuesday in a ceremony held in Benghazi.

They promised to end decades of marginalisation under Gaddafi and named a council to run the affairs of the newly created region, Cyrenaica, extending from the central coastal city of Sirte to the Egyptian border in the east.

The break up is backed by some Arab states according to the head of the NTC, but he won't name names. Prizes if you can guess who they are.

Mustafa Abdul Jalil, head of the NTC, called Tuesday's declaration "the beginning of a conspiracy against Libyans" and said it would "lead to danger'' of eventually breaking up the nation.

"Some Arab nations, unfortunately, have supported and encouraged this to happen,'' he said, without naming any specific countries.

Long live foreign intervention.

Eggy Baby! · 07-03-2012 5:09pm

Everything heading towards a giant poo sandwich.

Lol

A crude but effective explanation.

The break up is backed by some Arab states according to the head of the NTC, but he won't name names. Prizes if you can guess who they are.

Algeria, Egypt, Tunisia etc. are going to divide up Libya like a cake.

Jaafa · 07-03-2012 6:22pm

The leader of the NTC says he will use force if necessary against eastern separatists.

AlekSmart · 07-03-2012 8:44pm

Jaafa wrote: »

The leader of the NTC says he will use force if necessary against eastern separatists.

Whilst I can appreciate that some posters from the opposite end of the spectrum will already be pointing out that RT stands for RUSSIA TODAY ( :eek:),it still does not take away from the reality of the chaos which now envelops Libya.

I believe that it is now debateable as to whether the UN/NATO action has actually resulted in far more innocent Libyan civilian casualities than the supposed threat which Gadaffi posed...

Eggy Baby! · 07-03-2012 11:48pm

Whilst I can appreciate that some posters from the opposite end of the spectrum will already be pointing out that RT stands for RUSSIA TODAY

Russia Today doesn't lie, it just chooses it's stories carefully and with political motives. i.e it would report on the protests in Athens, but it would do it constantly and in general make Europe look like an unstable disaster (even though there are protests in Athens ). Also, they tend to give a lot of coverage to rebel atrocities in Syria, more so than government atrocities (possibly to discourage interventionism). It is "selective truth" so to speak. A lot of news stations do it, RT more than most.

Plus I'm sure the NTC leader did say he'll use force if necessary, but the fact that RT reported this fact most likely means they are trying to push a political motive.

Source? I watch it a hell of a lot. Never trust anything that agrees with you too much!

Jaafa · 08-03-2012 12:00am

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

Russia Today doesn't lie, it just chooses it's stories carefully and with political motives. i.e it would report on the protests in Athens, but it would do it constantly and in general make Europe look like an unstable disaster (even though there are protests in Athens ). Also, they tend to give a lot of coverage to rebel atrocities in Syria, more so than government atrocities (possibly to discourage interventionism). It is "selective truth" so to speak. A lot of news stations do it, RT more than most.

Plus I'm sure the NTC leader did say he'll use force if necessary, but the fact that RT reported this fact most likely means they are trying to push a political motive.

Source? I watch it a hell of a lot. Never trust anything that agrees with you too much!

It's been reported everywhere though, RT just happened to be the site I was on at the time.

Eggy Baby! · 08-03-2012 12:11am

It's been reported everywhere though, RT just happened to be the site I was on at the time.

I'd still believe it now, it's just that be warned that RT usually reports on these things for political purposes..

Jaafa · 08-03-2012 12:37am

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

I'd still believe it now, it's just that be warned that RT usually reports on these things for political purposes..

I've been at this too long not to know that.

Jaafa · 28-03-2012 7:45pm

Fighting rages on in the south between various tribal factions, 50 have died since Sunday, rocking the countries 3rd largest city.

50 have been killed and dozens injured in Libya as tribal groups are fighting in the country’s south.......The fighting between rival armed militias, ongoing since Sunday, has spilled into the center of Libya’s third largest city of Sabha on Tuesday. The country’s National Transitional Council initially sent out 300 of its troops to calm the situation but the contingent had to be reinforced two-fold, Reuters said.

The countries infrastructure is in ruins,the east of country has split from the west and the south continues the civil war, in pointless, fatal battles.
Armed militias roam the streets, neighborhoods have become like warring city states.
Black Africans are captured tortured and executed,along with anyone else who so much as worked in an office for Qaddafi.
Arms flood into neighboring countries fueling bloody rebellions and coups.

Hyperbole you might think? Is any of the above not fact?

Long live hasty intervention.

Cardinal Richelieu · 28-03-2012 10:05pm

Jaafa wrote: »

Fighting rages on in the south between various tribal factions, 50 have died since Sunday, rocking the countries 3rd largest city.

The countries infrastructure is in ruins,the east of country has split from the west and the south continues the civil war, in pointless, fatal battles.
Armed militias roam the streets, neighborhoods have become like warring city states.
Black Africans are captured tortured and executed,along with anyone else who so much as worked in an office for Qaddafi.
Arms flood into neighboring countries fueling bloody rebellions and coups.

Hyperbole you might think? Is any of the above not fact?

Long live hasty intervention.

Doesn't seem to be hyperbole, even american military sites are reporting it.

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/libya/articles/20120324.aspx

The intervention did work for the European arms industry do, sales of smart bombs have increased substantial. Nothing beats a good field trial to attract new business.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairw/articles/20120326.aspx

AlekSmart · 28-03-2012 10:30pm

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Doesn't seem to be hyperbole, even american military sites are reporting it.

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/libya/articles/20120324.aspx

The intervention did work for the European arms industry do, sales of smart bombs have increased substantial. Nothing beats a good field trial to attract new business.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairw/articles/20120326.aspx

Col Gadaffi's major misfortune was to look like a looney,that played a major part in allowing his detractors to popularize their required image of him to the cultivated western world.

Gadaffi himself then fleshed this impression out with his flowery,fiery rhetoric and thus was doomed to execution by the forces of good.

However,as time passes,his status as a Libyan,with Libya and it's peoples best interests at heart is emerging from where his detractors had hoped to keep it concealed.

His warning about "keeping the lid" on the internal situation now appears quite propethic,but of course this would not really have benefitted the same corporate bodies as the current situation is proving so beneficial to......cynical ?...you bet I'm cynical !

RichieC · 28-03-2012 10:48pm

If you ask me the US is in short term profit mode in all this whilst fanning the flames of future backlash to justify their exuberant military spending.

cyberhog · 01-04-2012 6:06am

147 killed in 6 days of clashes in south

TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) — Six days of tribal clashes in a remote desert town in southern Libya have killed 147 people, the country's health minister said Saturday.

Fatma al-Hamroush said in a press conference in Tripoli that the fighting in Sabha has also left 395 wounded.

http://news.yahoo.com/libya-147-killed-6-days-clashes-south-160950775.html

The US and its puppets from NATO have created a hell of a mess.

The war in Libya continues.

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