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The war in Libya continues.

  • 25-01-2012 10:18pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,621
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    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/01/2012124133415649500.html

    The video is better than the article IMO.

    All is not well in Libya, people returning to their homes in the Gaddafi stronghold of Bani Walid found the rebels had looted their homes leaving them with nothing. And so the towns people took up arms again,killing 4 rebels, retaking the town and flying the Green flag again. The rebels are on standby to attempt to assault and retake the town again, but I get the feeling this is just one of maybe incidents that will plague Libya, with it's fractured allegiances backed up by armed militias.

    From another BBC article on the same topic:
    Earlier this month, armed clashes between militias in the towns of Assabia and Gharyan left 12 dead and about 100 injured.

    Libya's interim leader, Mustafa Abdul Jalil, has warned of the dangers of a civil war if the country's militias are not disarmed.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 RichieC
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    shock and/or horror...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 Means Of Escape
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    Gaddaffi claimed 6 months before he was killed that he was keeping a monster at bay.....

    He was deposed as he was going to introduce the gold Dinar as a currency.
    African nations were buying into it.
    Would cause major upset in USA and gold values

    Look what's there now!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 hmmm
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    I know Gharyan was a garrison town, so lots of ex Gadaffi soldiers there. Bani Walid was one of the last places to fall, a very pro Gadaffi town. So I wouldn't read much into those skirmishes.

    What I would read a lot into was the thrashing of the NTC offices in Benghazi by their "own people". That indicates an impatience which isn't really realistic considering Gadaffi left Libya without a functioning civil society.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 941 cyberhog
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    hmmm wrote: »
    What I would read a lot into was the thrashing of the NTC offices in Benghazi by their "own people". That indicates an impatience which isn't really realistic considering Gadaffi left Libya without a functioning civil society.

    I must disagree with several aspects of your revisionism. Firstly it wasn't Gaddafi's choice to leave and had he not been forced out civil society would be functioning a lot better than it is now. Which, ironically, is what the people that wanted Gadaffi gone are now saying.
    "Our families have died for this revolution, but the way it is going it was actually better before, under Gaddafi. The banks worked, there was no rubbish and people did not have to fear all the guns around the country.

    http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE80M01I20120123?sp=true

    It won't be long before those anti-Gaddafi Libyans are cursing the day they went to bed with NATO.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 southsiderosie
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    me bolly wrote: »
    Gaddaffi claimed 6 months before he was killed that he was keeping a monster at bay.....

    He was deposed as he was going to introduce the gold Dinar as a currency.
    African nations were buying into it.
    Would cause major upset in USA and gold values

    Look what's there now!!

    This is all sounding a bit conspiracy theory-ish. What are you basing these claims on?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 Means Of Escape
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    This is all sounding a bit conspiracy theory-ish. What are you basing these claims on?

    RT international agency
    look up their bulletin on Youtube
    Not about oil.
    French Yanks and British were all prepared to deal with him again.
    Germans sitting on over 3000 tonnes of gold
    The Italians over 2000 tonnes
    think about the consequence of a gold currency
    No conspiracy theory
    NATO struck for more than humanitarian help.
    Not whizzing into North Korea are they.
    African leaders saw his move as a way to finally get their feet on the international power stage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,621 Jaafa
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    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2012/01/2012126133028210385.html
    Aid agency Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) has halted its work in detention centres in a Libyan city because it said its medical staff were being asked to patch up detainees mid-way through torture sessions so they could go back for more abuse.

    The 'rebels' showing more of their true colors. Dark times ahead for Libya I fear.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 AlekSmart
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    Jaafa wrote: »
    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2012/01/2012126133028210385.html



    The 'rebels' showing more of their true colors. Dark times ahead for Libya I fear.

    The above issue and the situation referenced in Bani Walid and Gharyan can well be passed off as merely aftershocks to be expected as Libyans test the limits of their new-found freedoms.

    Whilst many talk of the numbers of ex Gadaffi Military in these areas,this,of itself tends to rather dilute the "Popular" part of the Popular Rebellion which eventually saw the Colonel executed.

    It would appear to many outside observers that Libya is simply transitioning from its former Gadaffi era solidity back to being a largely unpopulated Tribal country with all of the benefits and drawbacks that brings with it.

    Gadaffi,being Tribal himself,but also being possessed with a hugely well developed sense of where he wanted Libya to be on the world stage,had kept the lid on the various Tribes with a mixture of Carrot and Stick,which worked.....or at least up until the remergence of Islamicism and it's new found self-confidence.

    For any leadership to have taken a country as inhospitable and difficult as Libya and given it's people a standard of living far above it's neighbours is easy now to revise into oblivion,but it's becoming equally clear that the NTC and their Islamicist string-pullers don't have a fraction of the vision or ability possessed by Gadaffi himself.

    Libya and it's miserable situation is no longer of interest to the West.
    UN/NATO and it's constituent European Military muscle have gone off to recharge their batteries and implement their cutbacks,whilst the ordinary Libyans they so enthusiastically "Freed" are left to return to their Koranic verses for inspiration as to how to put food,water and sustinance on their tables.

    A well earned Victory all round ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 wingsof daun
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    The tortures committed by the NTC government is now being reported by the media. This is a complete u-turn, the media passed this off as lies for the past 10 months or failed to report it. I don't think the west cares about the NTC amymore (or their fate when pro-Gaddafi forces eliminate or chase them far overseas). NATO or American forces are now guarding all oil areas, some 6000 or more troops are in the process of entering Libya. The government of Libya does not matter anymore, as long as the troops guard all the oil facilities and ensure it's safe passage. Or, it may be the case that NATO will be the new government!
    So there is fighting daily between Al-Qaeda, rebel forces and pro-Gaddafi. They are eliminating each other, general disunity and chaos, while the oil and wealth is flowing steadily out of their country into western countries. How unfair.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 Means Of Escape
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    The tortures committed by the NTC government is now being reported by the media. This is a complete u-turn, the media passed this off as lies for the past 10 months or failed to report it. I don't think the west cares about the NTC amymore (or their fate when pro-Gaddafi forces eliminate or chase them far overseas). NATO or American forces are now guarding all oil areas, some 6000 or more troops are in the process of entering Libya. The government of Libya does not matter anymore, as long as the troops guard all the oil facilities and ensure it's safe passage. Or, it may be the case that NATO will be the new government!
    So there is fighting daily between Al-Qaeda, rebel forces and pro-Gaddafi. They are eliminating each other, general disunity and chaos, while the oil and wealth is flowing steadily out of their country into western countries. How unfair.

    **** happens
    You dip your wick you pay for the oil


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 Chuck Stone
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    me bolly wrote: »
    think about the consequence of a gold currency

    What would the consequences be?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 southsiderosie
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    me bolly wrote: »
    RT international agency
    look up their bulletin on Youtube
    Not about oil.
    French Yanks and British were all prepared to deal with him again.
    Germans sitting on over 3000 tonnes of gold
    The Italians over 2000 tonnes
    think about the consequence of a gold currency
    No conspiracy theory
    NATO struck for more than humanitarian help.
    Not whizzing into North Korea are they.
    African leaders saw his move as a way to finally get their feet on the international power stage.

    No, YOU made the claims, so YOU need to offer at least some kind of link - and if it's a video, then tell us what it's about.

    Also, North Korea had nuclear weapons plus the China factor. Not to mention that Libya is in NATO's backyard. So I don't think the two situations are at all comparable.

    So, conspiracy theories aside, is there any shred of proof that a) Ghadaffi was going to introduce a 'gold dinar', b) that its introduction had any support from outside countries and/or c) that the US would be disturbed enough by this to get involved in an armed conflict.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 Means Of Escape
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    No, YOU made the claims, so YOU need to offer at least some kind of link - and if it's a video, then tell us what it's about.

    Also, North Korea had nuclear weapons plus the China factor. Not to mention that Libya is in NATO's backyard. So I don't think the two situations are at all comparable.

    So, conspiracy theories aside, is there any shred of proof that a) Ghadaffi was going to introduce a 'gold dinar', b) that its introduction had any support from outside countries and/or c) that the US would be disturbed enough by this to get involved in an armed conflict.

    Go look it up yourself then stand over YOUR doubts


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 Means Of Escape
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    What would the consequences be?

    Devaluation of the dollar maybe??
    Gold payment for oil not the buck?
    WTF?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 Chuck Stone
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    me bolly wrote: »
    WTF?

    It was a simple question the answer for which I'm interested in.

    Wouldn't dollar devaluation be good for US exports and paying back of dollar denominated debt?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 Means Of Escape
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    It was a simple question the answer for which I'm interested in.

    Wouldn't dollar devaluation be good for US exports and paying back of dollar denominated debt?

    Simple answer
    look it up yourself-- gaddaffi gold dinar


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 Means Of Escape
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    No, YOU made the claims, so YOU need to offer at least some kind of link - and if it's a video, then tell us what it's about.

    Also, North Korea had nuclear weapons plus the China factor. Not to mention that Libya is in NATO's backyard. So I don't think the two situations are at all comparable.

    So, conspiracy theories aside, is there any shred of proof that a) Ghadaffi was going to introduce a 'gold dinar', b) that its introduction had any support from outside countries and/or c) that the US would be disturbed enough by this to get involved in an armed conflict.

    You knew about this dinar story BEFORE it was ever posted on this site ,right!??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 Means Of Escape
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    me bolly wrote: »
    http://www.silverbearcafe.com/dinar.html
    http://www.gold-investor.com/article.php/20040327173809628
    http//www.taxfreegold.com/gold-dinar.ht
    http://www.johnperkins.org/?p-1051

    oh ye of little faith!!!
    prepare as it's going to happen
    The move from US dollar to gold dinar for the pricing of oil is only a matter of time
    The buck will no longerbe king....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 Means Of Escape
    ✭✭✭


    No, YOU made the claims, so YOU need to offer at least some kind of link - and if it's a video, then tell us what it's about.

    Also, North Korea had nuclear weapons plus the China factor. Not to mention that Libya is in NATO's backyard. So I don't think the two situations are at all comparable.

    So, conspiracy theories aside, is there any shred of proof that a) Ghadaffi was going to introduce a 'gold dinar', b) that its introduction had any support from outside countries and/or c) that the US would be disturbed enough by this to get involved in an armed conflict.

    Oh look the Chinese and Indians have agreed to buy oil from Iran using gold!?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 941 cyberhog
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    Transferring gold bullion would not be an easy way to pay for Iranian oil. The Russian banking system would be a better option.

    http://www.tehrantimes.com/economy-and-business/94962-iran-sanctions-india-exploring-russia-payment-route


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 southsiderosie
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    me bolly wrote: »
    Oh look the Chinese and Indians have agreed to buy oil from Iran using gold!?

    This is still a rumor - and even if it were true, it represents an attempt to get around sanctions, rather than a move to upend the dollar market or the global financial order.
    me bolly wrote: »
    http://www.silverbearcafe.com/dinar.html
    http://www.gold-investor.com/article.php/20040327173809628
    http//www.taxfreegold.com/gold-dinar.ht
    http://www.johnperkins.org/?p-1051

    oh ye of little faith!!!
    prepare as it's going to happen
    The move from US dollar to gold dinar for the pricing of oil is only a matter of time
    The buck will no longerbe king....

    Of the three links:
    * The first is from 2002
    * the second won't open
    * The third isn't an article, it's a website - and one that I'm not going to trawl through given that the link that actually worked was from ten years ago

    Also, I would question the veracity of any claim that a group of countries are moving towards some kind of common currency - even a gold-backed one - given the situation in the eurozone right now. I highly doubt that many countries would have the stomach for it - rumors about the 'amero' (US-MEX-CAN) have certainly died down since the euro crisis began.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 Means Of Escape
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    This is still a rumor - and even if it were true, it represents an attempt to get around sanctions, rather than a move to upend the dollar market or the global financial order.



    Of the three links:
    * The first is from 2002
    * the second won't open
    * The third isn't an article, it's a website - and one that I'm not going to trawl through given that the link that actually worked was from ten years ago

    Also, I would question the veracity of any claim that a group of countries are moving towards some kind of common currency - even a gold-backed one - given the situation in the eurozone right now. I highly doubt that many countries would have the stomach for it - rumors about the 'amero' (US-MEX-
    CAN) have certainly died down since the euro crisis began.

    There won't be any choices involved.
    We need the oil, they can decide the currency

    It will happen.
    It is not a rumour
    And the second link does open


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,621 Jaafa
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    An update on this, a little late, sorry. The NTC has accepted the authority of the local council who overthrew the NTC council on the 23rd of January.
    http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E8CP2IG20120125

    This IMO represents a president, the tribes which were unified under Gaddafi, will each seek a return to power, the country will become fragmented, and the old tribal boarders will be drawn up again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 Means Of Escape
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    Jaafa wrote: »
    An update on this, a little late, sorry. The NTC has accepted the authority of the local council who overthrew the NTC council on the 23rd of January.
    http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFL5E8CP2IG20120125

    This IMO represents a president, the tribal which were unified under Gaddafi, will each seek a return to power, the country will become fragmented, and the old tribal boarders will be drawn up again.

    The monster he spoke about being kept at bay.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10 Dr Albert S Meinheimer


    cyberhog wrote: »
    Transferring gold bullion would not be an easy way to pay for Iranian oil. The Russian banking system would be a better option.

    http://www.tehrantimes.com/economy-and-business/94962-iran-sanctions-india-exploring-russia-payment-route

    Transfer?
    No Iranian investment in China or India to date?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 goose2005
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    Shows how incredibly naive it was to feature that Irish Libyan rebel as some sort of hero/celebrity. Wonder if he's shot an 'abd yet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 Scofflaw
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    me_bolly, stop posting conspiracy theory stuff. There's a forum for that. Don't do it again. If you can't prove your personal "it's all smoke and mirrors" take on a situation, don't bother posting it here.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10 Dr Albert S Meinheimer


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    me_bolly, stop posting conspiracy theory stuff. There's a forum for that. Don't do it again. If you can't prove your personal "it's all smoke and mirrors" take on a situation, don't bother posting it here.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw

    It's not a conspiracy theory.it's very real.It's an unpopular opinion and therefore here.
    It's a valid founded belief that this is where the global markets will invariably be heading.
    If you were more in touch with world affairs you might not be so convinced that it's "smoke and mirrors"
    if you can offer one shred of evidence to dismiss as you refer to it the "conspiracy theory' outright then you are in a position to lecture and admonish people who post views that may have a valid basis but different to your own.
    Moderator or not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 Jonny7
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    It's not a conspiracy theory.it's very real.It's an unpopular opinion and therefore here.
    It's a valid founded belief that this is where the global markets will invariably be heading.
    If you were more in touch with world affairs you might not be so convinced that it's "smoke and mirrors"
    if you can offer one shred of evidence to dismiss as you refer to it the "conspiracy theory' outright then you are in a position to lecture and admonish people who post views that may have a valid basis but different to your own.
    Moderator or not.

    India paying for Iranian oil with gold is just a rumour at the moment (rupees are far more likely)

    Gaddafi's Gold Dinar was just a proposal. Anything hinting otherwise is a conspiracy theory.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10 Dr Albert S Meinheimer


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    India paying for Iranian oil with gold is just a rumour at the moment (rupees are far more likely)

    Gaddafi's Gold Dinar was just a proposal. Anything hinting otherwise is a conspiracy theory.

    He saw the future value of gold and it's future role in the world economy.
    Others are now following suit.
    Ask yourself why when Italy and Germany who have approx 6000 tonnes of gold between them didn't sell any sizeable portion of it given their economic woes?
    Fire sale?
    Might be digging out Croagh Patrick to get at the gold vein underneath after all.
    Of course that's a myth too!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10 Dr Albert S Meinheimer


    It was a simple question the answer for which I'm interested in.

    Wouldn't dollar devaluation be good for US exports and paying back of dollar denominated debt?

    Not so

    www.salem-news.com/articles/february032012/Iran-gold-jm.php


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 southsiderosie
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    It's not a conspiracy theory.it's very real.It's an unpopular opinion and therefore here.
    It's a valid founded belief that this is where the global markets will invariably be heading.
    If you were more in touch with world affairs you might not be so convinced that it's "smoke and mirrors"
    if you can offer one shred of evidence to dismiss as you refer to it the "conspiracy theory' outright then you are in a position to lecture and admonish people who post views that may have a valid basis but different to your own.
    Moderator or not.

    If you have an issue with moderation, take it to PM, don't post it on thread.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 Means Of Escape
    ✭✭✭


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    me_bolly, stop posting conspiracy theory stuff. There's a forum for that. Don't do it again. If you can't prove your personal "it's all smoke and mirrors" take on a situation, don't bother posting it here.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw

    Smoke n mirrors!!!???

    Kir-t34.livejournal.com/14869.HTML


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 AlekSmart
    ✭✭✭✭


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    Gaddafi's Gold Dinar was just a proposal. Anything hinting otherwise is a conspiracy theory.

    Very true indeed.

    The main problem was in Gadaffi's self-confidence and his ever increasing ability to get other African peoples (if not their leaders) on message with him.

    It could be argued that the concpiracies only really began after the UN's decision to get involved in Libya....up until then it's argueable that Gadaffi might well have seen his "Monster" off ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 Means Of Escape
    ✭✭✭


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Very true indeed.

    The main problem was in Gadaffi's self-confidence and his ever increasing ability to get other African peoples (if not their leaders) on message with him.

    It could be argued that the concpiracies only really began after the UN's decision to get involved in Libya....up until then it's argueable that Gadaffi might well have seen his "Monster" off ?


    Incorrect
    The idea of a gold dinar is over ten years old.
    One would be really naive to assume that NATO solely entered into a war with Libya on fears that he would introduce the gold dinar and in turn devalue the dollar
    The possibility that it was one factor cannot be ignored.
    Unseating a tyrant?Yet only 5 years ago European leaders were prepared to do business again with him?Come on
    The monster he referred to are the tribes who we now see emerging with a new sinister agenda.
    You knew that right!?Maybe not.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 southsiderosie
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    me bolly wrote: »
    Incorrect
    The idea of a gold dinar is over ten years old.
    One would be really naive to assume that NATO solely entered into a war with Libya on fears that he would introduce the gold dinar and in turn devalue the dollar
    The possibility that it was one factor cannot be ignored.

    Actually I think it can, given that we've seen nothing to suggest that this was any more of a serious proposal than the Amero - something that was talked about wishfully (and ranted about angrily), but never had any serious widespread popular or political support.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 Means Of Escape
    ✭✭✭


    If you have an issue with moderation, take it to PM, don't post it on thread.

    I am the one who has an issue with your style of aggressive moderation.
    Curtailing my opinion on this issue and dismissing it as a conspiracy theory when it is clear that you haven't a clue about the topic.
    You are obviously getting half baked snippets of information on the integral part of the post and coupled with unbridled arrogance feel that you can brush aside in a dogmatic manner any idea or opinion that is contrary to yours.

    Off the high horse chief and take off the pseudo intellectual hat and join the debate by bringing something of substance to the table.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 AlekSmart
    ✭✭✭✭


    me bolly wrote: »
    Incorrect
    The idea of a gold dinar is over ten years old.
    One would be really naive to assume that NATO solely entered into a war with Libya on fears that he would introduce the gold dinar and in turn devalue the dollar
    The possibility that it was one factor cannot be ignored.
    Unseating a tyrant?Yet only 5 years ago European leaders were prepared to do business again with him?Come on
    The monster he referred to are the tribes who we now see emerging with a new sinister agenda.
    You knew that right!?Maybe not.

    Oddly enough,despite recieving a belt of me bolly's brolly,I tend to agree with the thrust of the post.

    I know the timeline surrounding the Gold Dinar,but I believe Gadaffi had progressed much further,even if only in his own mind,with where this would bring Libya.

    Gadaffi was perhaps the only leader in the region with the capability to effectively disentangle an African country from the endless requirement for "Aid",in whatever form the West offered it.

    My belief is that the decision by Gadaffi to fund a Pan African Communications Satellite certainly spooked some movers n shakers,which when added to the currency issue,ensured that his,and Libya's card was firmly marked.

    The notion of a United Nations becoming all concerned about the potential fate of Libyan civillians and moving to protect them has been quite firmly debunked by the current Syrian situation,where we see the potential dead Libyan civillians replaced by large numbers of Actual dead Syrian civillians but,as yet,no rush of blood to the UN/NATO head.

    The need to depose Gadaffi was,for reasons as yet unstipulated,far more pressing than similarly addressing Al-Assad.

    Bashir Al-Assad for all his power and influence,sure ain't no Muammar Gadaffi,which,for now,has saved his bacon ! :(


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 goose2005
    ✭✭✭


    AlekSmart wrote: »

    The notion of a United Nations becoming all concerned about the potential fate of Libyan civillians and moving to protect them has been quite firmly debunked by the current Syrian situation,where we see the potential dead Libyan civillians replaced by large numbers of Actual dead Syrian civillians but,as yet,no rush of blood to the UN/NATO head.

    There is as yet no Syrian rebellion to support.
    Gadaffi was perhaps the only leader in the region with the capability to effectively disentangle an African country from the endless requirement for "Aid",in whatever form the West offered it.
    Gadaffi had decades to build a functioning economy and failed, despite a neverending stream of easy money. The only reason they didn't need aid was low population and lots of oil money.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 Means Of Escape
    ✭✭✭


    goose2005 wrote: »
    There is as yet no Syrian rebellion to support.

    Incorrect
    Former military commander Riad Al-Asaad is leading a rebellion


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 AlekSmart
    ✭✭✭✭


    goose2005 wrote: »
    There is as yet no Syrian rebellion to support.

    From what we are given to understand in information coming from Syria,this current unrest has long ago far surpassed the alleged actions which inspired the UN to deploy NATO forces to effect regime change in Libya....Is an actually dead Syrian civillian worth less than a potentially dead Libyan civillian ?

    Why the huge difference in standards required for UN action in this case ?
    Gadaffi had decades to build a functioning economy and failed, despite a neverending stream of easy money. The only reason they didn't need aid was low population and lots of oil money.

    Arguable,to my way of thinking.

    The very fact that Libya had "a never ending stream of easy money" is surely a tacit admission that Libya's economy was a functional one,albeit not of the Knowledged Based type Ireland is possessed of.

    Is there a suggestion that the Major Oil Companies queue up to offer Oil Producing States more money than they demand ?

    The fact that Libya did'nt need Outside aid is also,given it's geographical location,very great testimony to it's leadership doing something right.

    It appears to ruffle some feathers that Gadaffi had the foresight and means to devise,construct and deliver schemes such as "The Great Manmade River" project,rather than conform to the central casting role demanded of him,by spending his country's wealth on a orbiting Death Ray machine ?

    Oddly enough,a great amount of the statistics which were available on-line in relation to Libyan development contracts going forward to 2030 have disappeared in the current revisionist atmosphere.

    I had come across some substantial tender information outlining several Billion US$ worth of tenders for infrastructural projects such as Railways,Housing,Communications.

    Many of the contracts were it appears won by Chinese consortia,and were all due to start in or around 2011/12.

    Sadly I did'nt save the details so it's all probably plausibly deniable by now ?

    However I would suggest that the Libyan economy was functional enough to sustain it's own people,and significant numbers of it's neighbours as well !!


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 456 Dubhlinner
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    Looks to me that the nato invasion has effectively reduced Libya to similarly resourced nigeria.

    Well done lads.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 hmmm
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    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Why the huge difference in standards required for UN action in this case ?
    For a start, the veto from the great socialist states of China & Russia.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 Eggy Baby!
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    hmmm wrote: »
    For a start, the veto from the great socialist states of China & Russia.

    Russia isn't socialist......in fact, it was too capitalist at one stage...

    And China isn't either....its essentially a capitalist in communist's clothing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 RichieC
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    I dont think weve learned anything from the iraq debacle.. I was called a CTer back then for doubting the threats of mushroom bombs and generally doubting the US motives, calling the war a mistake... A few years later once the facts were my loudest detractors were calling for Bush's head louder than I was.

    Here we are again.. Everything heading towards a giant poo sandwich. Extremists handed libya, a push to hand them syria, Egypt already going to the dogs and the drums of war banging for Iran.

    It boils my blood that even now a link to US sources is still acceptable. I think it incredible that people cannot see whats going on here :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 RichieC
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    No much talk on here about yemen or "business friendly" Bahrain


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 AlekSmart
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    RichieC wrote: »
    No much talk on here about yemen or "business friendly" Bahrain

    Ah c'mon RichieC...They're ...."Different"...just like Syria and they don't have suitably mad looking leaders to merit No-Fly zones. :(


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,621 Jaafa
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    And so the break up of Libya continues.
    Tribal leaders and militia commanders in oil-rich eastern Libya have declared their intention to seek semi-autonomy, raising fears that the country might disintegrate following the overthrow of Muammar Gaddafi.

    Thousands of representatives of major tribal leaders, militia commanders and politicians made the declaration on Tuesday in a ceremony held in Benghazi.

    They promised to end decades of marginalisation under Gaddafi and named a council to run the affairs of the newly created region, Cyrenaica, extending from the central coastal city of Sirte to the Egyptian border in the east.

    The break up is backed by some Arab states according to the head of the NTC, but he won't name names. Prizes if you can guess who they are.
    Mustafa Abdul Jalil, head of the NTC, called Tuesday's declaration "the beginning of a conspiracy against Libyans" and said it would "lead to danger'' of eventually breaking up the nation.

    "Some Arab nations, unfortunately, have supported and encouraged this to happen,'' he said, without naming any specific countries.

    Long live foreign intervention.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 Eggy Baby!
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    Everything heading towards a giant poo sandwich.

    Lol

    A crude but effective explanation.
    The break up is backed by some Arab states according to the head of the NTC, but he won't name names. Prizes if you can guess who they are.

    Algeria, Egypt, Tunisia etc. are going to divide up Libya like a cake.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,621 Jaafa
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    The leader of the NTC says he will use force if necessary against eastern separatists.


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