Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Keep abortion out of Ireland

Options
1…1718202223…65

Comments

  • Options
    #572
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Hyperduck wrote: »
    Why don't you give up your wealth?

    Why don't you campaign to sell the country in the name of "child hunger"?

    The Vatican has a bureaucracy by virtue of the fact that it must manage over a billion people worldwide. Then again, those artworks bring in millions every year (tourism) to be spent on charitable works.

    I'd love to know what you do for charity?

    I don't imagine GarIT is promoting himself as a moral leader dedicated to worshiping a god who said to give up all your wealth


  • Options
    #573
    Hyperduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭Hyperduck


    bluewolf wrote: »
    I don't imagine GarIT is promoting himself as a moral leader dedicated to worshiping a god who said to give up all your wealth

    Name one organisation in the world who can lead a billion people with no assets.

    Wealth is not inherently evil as certain anti-Catholic folk like to believe.

    The interest from the church's wealth funds a sustainable programme of charitable works. The Church must think 500 years ahead - the organisation outlives man and must not go bankrupt for that would cause the loss of charitable capability.


  • Options
    #574
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Hyperduck wrote: »
    Name one organisation in the world who can lead a billion people with no assets.

    Yeah, the fancy throne and other accessories are really necessary to lead the flock:rolleyes:


  • Options
    #575
    Hyperduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭Hyperduck


    Blay wrote: »
    Yeah, the fancy throne and other accessories are really necessary to lead the flock:rolleyes:

    Knew you couldn't.

    Perhaps Eire could be run from a shed in Blanchardstown. Ceann Comhairle could wear sack cloth.


  • Options
    #576
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Hyperduck wrote: »
    Name one organisation in the world who can lead a billion people with no assets.

    Wealth is not inherently evil as certain anti-Catholic folk like to believe.

    The interest from the church's wealth funds a sustainable programme of charitable works. The Church must think 500 years ahead - the organisation outlives man and must not go bankrupt for that would cause the loss of charitable capability.

    Absolutely wealth is needed in order to donate to charity, Bill Gates would be a fine example of a man who's literally given billions of his own money to assist charity. But unlike the Pope, he doesn't do it from a Golden throne, in his own private gold covered Cathedral and tell those with little money to give to the poor.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #577
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Hyperduck wrote: »
    Name one organisation in the world who can lead a billion people with no assets.

    Wealth is not inherently evil as certain anti-Catholic folk like to believe.

    The interest from the church's wealth funds a sustainable programme of charitable works. The Church must think 500 years ahead - the organisation outlives man and must not go bankrupt for that would cause the loss of charitable capability.

    Was it not the Catholic church that teaches us that wealth is evil? Is not not priests that take a vow of poverty. (excluding chairs of course).

    Around Christmas or New Years the pope said how this year everyone should give up something that is not necessary and use it to help the less well off, then he sat down on a hundred million euro chair.

    I understand that it is necessary for the Pope to have a chair. If the Pope keeps his own word and sells his chair I will personally buy him a chair from Ikea, they have quite a nice selection and I'm sure they would be better for his back than the one he currently has. We can then donate any money left over to charity.

    The money that the RCC gives to charity is money that was donated and fund raised by its members.

    €15 million as well on a gold stick, my granddad has a spare walking stick that he would be happy to lend the Pope.

    I don't believe in the theories behind the religion, but if the Pope kept his own word I might go along with it for the good of it. Unfortunately I don't want to take advice from someone that tells me to get rid of material possessions while he sits on €100 million and hold €15 million in his hands.

    I'm not saying the church should give up its assets but according to an audit by price waterhouse coopers the church has €120 billion in gold worldwide, the majority of this is buried in vaults under the Vatican that nobody ever sees anyway. I also understand the church needs to look good, but I believe the nicest wooden chair in the world would be a suitable substitute, you could probably buy the nicest wooden chair in the world for a few thousand euro, no need for the hundred million. He could even have an exact replica of his current chair but made of wood made up for less than €10,000.


  • Options
    #578
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    It also annoys me how the church can be so high and mighty about its moral values and sin but then sell porn magazines for extra profit.

    http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/faith-and-morals/9638-german-catholic-bishops-selling-porn


  • Options
    #579
    gimmebroadband
    Registered Users Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭gimmebroadband


    GarIT wrote: »
    Was it not the Catholic church that teaches us that wealth is evil? Is not not priests that take a vow of poverty. (excluding chairs of course).

    Around Christmas or New Years the pope said how this year everyone should give up something that is not necessary and use it to help the less well off, then he sat down on a hundred million euro chair.

    I understand that it is necessary for the Pope to have a chair. If the Pope keeps his own word and sells his chair I will personally buy him a chair from Ikea, they have quite a nice selection and I'm sure they would be better for his back than the one he currently has. We can then donate any money left over to charity.

    The money that the RCC gives to charity is money that was donated and fund raised by its members.

    €15 million as well on a gold stick, my granddad has a spare walking stick that he would be happy to lend the Pope.

    I don't believe in the theories behind the religion, but if the Pope kept his own word I might go along with it for the good of it. Unfortunately I don't want to take advice from someone that tells me to get rid of material possessions while he sits on €100 million and hold €15 million in his hands.

    I'm not saying the church should give up its assets but according to an audit by price waterhouse coopers the church has €120 billion in gold worldwide, the majority of this is buried in vaults under the Vatican that nobody ever sees anyway. I also understand the church needs to look good, but I believe the nicest wooden chair in the world would be a suitable substitute, you could probably buy the nicest wooden chair in the world for a few thousand euro, no need for the hundred million. He could even have an exact replica of his current chair but made of wood made up for less than €10,000.

    Here I was expecting Dan Brown in the credits...... :rolleyes:

    BTW only priests attached to religious orders take a vow of poverty!


  • Options
    #580
    gimmebroadband
    Registered Users Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭gimmebroadband


    GarIT wrote: »
    It also annoys me how the church can be so high and mighty about its moral values and sin but then sell porn magazines for extra profit.

    http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/faith-and-morals/9638-german-catholic-bishops-selling-porn

    The Non-Dan Brown Version!

    The publishing house was owned by a few German Bishops, and not the Catholic Church, typical that we all get lumped together. When the bishops found out about the publishers selling soft porn titles, the Bishops decided to sell it!


    http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/international/international-deals/article/49656-germany-s-weltbild-for-sale.html


  • Options
    #581
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    gimmebroadband wrote: »
    The Non-Dan Brown Version!

    The publishing house was owned by a few German Bishops, and not the Catholic Church, typical that we all get lumped together. When the bishops found out about the publishers selling soft porn titles, the Bishops decided to sell it!


    http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/international/international-deals/article/49656-germany-s-weltbild-for-sale.html

    Sorry, I suppose you get a biased view while reading a biased article, your own link does say that the diocese owned it though not the bishops, anyway, it doesn't really matter.

    What I do have to say though if a company employs a representative that becomes corrupt, the reaction is usually a bad one saying the company shouldn't have hired that person, I feel the same about the church, it is the churches fault for choosing representatives that don't do it justice.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #582
    Hyperduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭Hyperduck


    @GarIT: stick to the IT...


  • Options
    #583
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Hyperduck wrote: »
    @GarIT: stick to the IT...

    Why, because I'm right?
    Do you not realise how hypocritical it is for you leader to talk about charity while living a lifestyle that most people could never even imagine?


  • Options
    #584
    Wh1stler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 276 ✭✭Wh1stler


    I don't suppose that everyone could agree that unwanted pregnancies are a problem in Ireland?

    Equally, it must be evident that to keep abortion out of Ireland is tantamount to sweeping the problem under the carpet. In some cases, abortion is the best solution to the problem.

    Alcoholism is another problem that is brushed under the carpet by facilitating it. Drink is sold, alcoholism proliferates and thousands of souls are lost each year. It is nothing less than human-sacrifice but to whom? Would these souls be destined for heaven? Which force enjoys the most benefit from the deaths of alcoholics; God or Satan?

    But this is acceptable. And smoking is an even greater sacrifice.

    'The gate is narrow; only a few may pass; many choose the wider gate to destruction.'

    Do smokers and alcoholics constitute the 'few'? Or are they likely to be among the many? The many who are eternally suffering in the fiery lake?

    Whereas abortion prevents the loss of a soul's innocence, doesn't it?

    It seems to me that the church's opposition to abortion is that undeveloped foetuses do not qualify as valid sacrifices to God.

    Smokers and alcoholics do; unborn babies don't.

    I think that the anti-abortion brigade should pick a better fight and try to save souls that actually need saving.

    Let science take care of the other thing and try to adopt a more (or less) Christian attitude to those people who choose abortion as a solution to a particular problem.

    And let the state support them.


  • Options
    #585
    whitemocha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭whitemocha


    Hi Guys if you get a chance can you listen to the interview i had with Ray Darcy and tell me what your opinion is on it.
    I would love to hear what you think either negative or positive
    Thanks

    http://media.todayfm.com/podcast/61162/?uniqueID=37719


  • Options
    #586
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Wh1stler wrote: »
    I don't suppose that everyone could agree that unwanted pregnancies are a problem in Ireland?

    Equally, it must be evident that to keep abortion out of Ireland is tantamount to sweeping the problem under the carpet. In some cases, abortion is the best solution to the problem.

    Alcoholism is another problem that is brushed under the carpet by facilitating it. Drink is sold, alcoholism proliferates and thousands of souls are lost each year. It is nothing less than human-sacrifice but to whom? Would these souls be destined for heaven? Which force enjoys the most benefit from the deaths of alcoholics; God or Satan?

    So, since alcoholism is also a problem, then the equivalent to abortion as an answer would be to kill off a few alcoholics?

    I was once an alcoholic who slept on the streets. I am so grateful that Christians didn't treat me as a 'problem' but as a human being who could experience redemption.


  • Options
    #587
    gimmebroadband
    Registered Users Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭gimmebroadband


    My brother is a lifelong alcholic and would be dead only for the help of those institutions who get no help from the goverment.

    Good for you PDN, I know that it will be lifelong battle for you, 3 generations of my family were alcoholics, so I know how hard it is!


  • Options
    #588
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Wh1stler wrote: »
    I don't suppose that everyone could agree that unwanted pregnancies are a problem in Ireland?

    Equally, it must be evident that to keep abortion out of Ireland is tantamount to sweeping the problem under the carpet. In some cases, abortion is the best solution to the problem.


    Abortion IS sweeping a problem under the carpet. I know many women who will talk about miscarriages and how they suffered. I know not one single women who has ever talked about having an abortion. Why? Probably something they are ashamed of.. probably because they know it was a wrong thing to do. But its not a topic they bring up.

    Aids & Poverty in Africa is a problem it causes enormous suffering.. Should we done the humane thing and kill them off?


  • Options
    #589
    whitemocha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭whitemocha


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Abortion IS sweeping a problem under the carpet. I know many women who will talk about miscarriages and how they suffered. I know not one single women who has ever talked about having an abortion. Why? Probably something they are ashamed of.. probably because they know it was a wrong thing to do. But its not a topic they bring up.

    Aids & Poverty in Africa is a problem it causes enormous suffering.. Should we done the humane thing and kill them off?


    its because of people like you its not brought up.

    Can you please listen to my podcast and then tell me i did the wrong thing ??
    i would love to hear your opinion


  • Options
    #590
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    whitemocha wrote: »
    its because of people like you its not brought up.

    Can you please listen to my podcast and then tell me i did the wrong thing ??
    i would love to hear your opinion


    Hi I listened to your Podcast, I am sorry for your Child.

    But letting nature takes its course would be the best thing. There is a big difference to going to die to actually dying.

    You case is the exact same the Santorum family, same syndrome. Against al the odds and medical advise the Child did survive. They didn't abort

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq5no8mHtm0

    I am not going to Judge you as a Person. As a Catholic I have always been Taught to Hate the SIN not the SINNER. And its not my place to judge you.

    But the fact remains and will always remain that is it wrong to Kill a child, knowingly, willingly.

    Its not medically possible to say trisomy 13 is not possible with life. The advise you were given was wrong. Probably not going to make it. Reality is Children with trisomy 13 do survive.

    Zero hope/Zero Chance..... The advise was wrong.

    My Mother know her first born would be born dead, She dead in her womb and they delivered. She suffered enormously .. but she always said to me that Abortion would never be the option for she. While she grieved she also had consolation.


  • Options
    #591
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Abortion IS sweeping a problem under the carpet. I know many women who will talk about miscarriages and how they suffered. I know not one single women who has ever talked about having an abortion. Why? Probably something they are ashamed of.. probably because they know it was a wrong thing to do. But its not a topic they bring up.

    Because everyone condemns them :confused:


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #592
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Because everyone condemns them :confused:

    Or because they condemn themselves with their actions. UK and US are pretty liberal... but still not a society that talks about it.


  • Options
    #593
    Wh1stler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 276 ✭✭Wh1stler


    whitemocha wrote: »
    Hi Guys if you get a chance can you listen to the interview i had with Ray Darcy and tell me what your opinion is on it.
    I would love to hear what you think either negative or positive
    Thanks

    Heartbreaking. Thank you for sharing this; it absolutely validates what I said in my previous post.


  • Options
    #594
    Wh1stler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 276 ✭✭Wh1stler


    PDN wrote: »
    So, since alcoholism is also a problem, then the equivalent to abortion as an answer would be to kill off a few alcoholics?

    I was once an alcoholic who slept on the streets. I am so grateful that Christians didn't treat me as a 'problem' but as a human being who could experience redemption.

    It is no wonder that you have so much trouble correctly interpreting the Bible. :pac:


  • Options
    #595
    Wh1stler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 276 ✭✭Wh1stler


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Abortion IS sweeping a problem under the carpet. I know many women who will talk about miscarriages and how they suffered. I know not one single women who has ever talked about having an abortion. Why? Probably something they are ashamed of.. probably because they know it was a wrong thing to do. But its not a topic they bring up.

    Aids & Poverty in Africa is a problem it causes enormous suffering.. Should we done the humane thing and kill them off?

    Probably? Probably?

    You are arguing from ignorance.

    And where did I say alcoholics should be killed? I said they should be saved.

    Sheesh.


  • Options
    #596
    Wh1stler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 276 ✭✭Wh1stler


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    But the fact remains and will always remain that is it wrong to Kill a child, knowingly, willingly.

    Yes but a child was not killed; the pregnancy failed.
    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Its not medically possible to say trisomy 13 is not possible with life. The advise you were given was wrong. Probably not going to make it. Reality is Children with trisomy 13 do survive.

    Zero hope/Zero Chance..... The advise was wrong.

    Way to heap on the misery.

    You exemplify perfectly why religion should have nothing to do with any decision process.
    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    My Mother know her first born would be born dead, She dead in her womb and they delivered. She suffered enormously .. but she always said to me that Abortion would never be the option for she. While she grieved she also had consolation.

    Good for you; your mother's suffering meets with your approval. Keep the suuffering going, huh?


  • Options
    #597
    whitemocha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭whitemocha


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Hi I listened to your Podcast, I am sorry for your Child.

    But letting nature takes its course would be the best thing. There is a big difference to going to die to actually dying.

    You case is the exact same the Santorum family, same syndrome. Against al the odds and medical advise the Child did survive. They didn't abort

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq5no8mHtm0

    I am not going to Judge you as a Person. As a Catholic I have always been Taught to Hate the SIN not the SINNER. And its not my place to judge you.

    But the fact remains and will always remain that is it wrong to Kill a child, knowingly, willingly.

    Its not medically possible to say trisomy 13 is not possible with life. The advise you were given was wrong. Probably not going to make it. Reality is Children with trisomy 13 do survive.

    Zero hope/Zero Chance..... The advise was wrong.

    My Mother know her first born would be born dead, She dead in her womb and they delivered. She suffered enormously .. but she always said to me that Abortion would never be the option for she. While she grieved she also had consolation.

    certain Trisomy 13 survive(but not often) full trisomy with hygromas dont i think i would be better to listen to a proffessional then you


  • Options
    #598
    hattoncracker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭hattoncracker


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Wh1stler wrote: »
    I don't suppose that everyone could agree that unwanted pregnancies are a problem in Ireland?

    Equally, it must be evident that to keep abortion out of Ireland is tantamount to sweeping the problem under the carpet. In some cases, abortion is the best solution to the problem.


    Abortion IS sweeping a problem under the carpet. I know many women who will talk about miscarriages and how they suffered. I know not one single women who has ever talked about having an abortion. Why? Probably something they are ashamed of.. probably because they know it was a wrong thing to do. But its not a topic they bring up.

    Aids & Poverty in Africa is a problem it causes enormous suffering.. Should we done the humane thing and kill them off?

    abortion is something that is not spoken about because it's too painful, and because of the way, automatically, women are judged for having one, just like you, saying that it is "probably" because theyre ashamed.

    I'm not ashamed of the choices I made. I Do not regret them. I never will, and I don't hate myself for it, and I will not let someone else hate me for it. But one person who I thought was my friend gave me dogs abuse for even considering it. So I learned to keep it to myself, and it was not being able to talk about it that has me in counselling now, not the abortion itself.

    I would not wish being in that situation on anyone. No one ever understands unless they've been there (and by being there, I'm talking about being a woman who has had to make that choice, or her partner).

    You have never personally been in the situations that me or the other lady on this thread have, so your
    opinion, whether based on religion or personal choice, should not affect the ability for other women to make that choice. That is why abortion should be legalised. You only ever hear about the women with abortions for eye colour, or those ridiculous other reasons you read about. You never hear about the quiet, grief stricken, terrified women who every singe day have to leave on a jet plane to another country, who only just want their own bed, and their own local Chinese or whatever else that would give them one nice memory on what they will look back on as being one of the most horrible days in their lives, but can't have it because this country does not recognise their rights to a safe abortion in their own country.

    Its not because of shame, that you dont hear the stories I can tell you. Its because it's easier to keep it to yourself than to have your decisions disected and judged without the least bit of consideration as to how hard that decision was.


  • Options
    #599
    whitemocha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭whitemocha


    just looked at the youtube video There baby had Trisomy 18 mnine had 13 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT you find me a child that is living with full Trisomy with cystic hygromas who is not suffering


  • Options
    #600
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    whitemocha wrote: »
    just looked at the youtube video There baby had Trisomy 18 mnine had 13 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT you find me a child that is living with full Trisomy with cystic hygromas who is not suffering

    Some people prefer to stick their fingers in their ears especially if they haven't been through it
    i'm sure it was difficult enough for you, don't bother trying to rub salt in the wounds from people who don't care


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #601
    Wh1stler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 276 ✭✭Wh1stler


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Some people prefer to stick their fingers in their ears especially if they haven't been through it
    i'm sure it was difficult enough for you, don't bother trying to rub salt in the wounds from people who don't care

    Out of interest, bluewolf, are you a Christian.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement