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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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  • Options
    #7532
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    lividduck wrote: »
    Sorry, but what the F**k has Phil Hogans pay got to do with the yes camp?
    I mean, ok you and many others oppose the charge, fair enough, thats your right, but how can you link Phil hogans pay to my decision to pay the tax?

    Because they're the people accusing us of selfishness, and refusing to pay our way.

    Realistically, how many of us would be on Phil Hogan's salary? A salary which (even when on 110 k) he refused to 'pay his way' by giving something back to the state when asked to give 10%.

    He's now on 170k btw (not even three years later)

    I'm surprised you had to ask that question tbh.


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    #7533
    howamidifferent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Because they're the people accusing us of selfishness, and refusing to pay our way.

    Realistically, how many of us would be on Phil Hogan's salary? I salary which (even when on 110 k) he refused to 'pay his way' by giving something back to the state when asked to give 10%.

    He's now on 170k btw (not even the years later)

    I'm surprised you had to ask that question tbh.

    170k is obscene and disgusting at any time but especially in these times. Public service ? How is he serving the public by robbing us to feather his own nest?

    Ministers pay should be the very first thing to be cut. 70k for Edna and no more than 50k for any other minister. If public service is their goal then they shouldnt have any objections. If not then let them fcuk off and get a real job... :mad:


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    #7534
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    As a follow-up to my last post, here is a further thought - feel free to disagree with me...

    We as a people and nation have been up to now too god-damn polite.
    We have quietly from our own homes, bank savings, pockets and wallets taken it too much up the ass.
    O' yes, lets still pussy-foot about in word of politeness and soft words in ordinary times in bouts of political correctness if needs be

    ...BUT WE ARE LIVING IN EXTRA-ORDINARY TIMES NOW!

    Let stop beating around the wordplay and say "Fcuk this, the time for being a soft-hearted, soft spoken word is over."
    Its time to get real, stop beating around the bush and say what things are as we really see them and feel about them.

    Because we have been too polite, biting out lips, holding back words and too politically correct for (far) too long, the shysters, the two faced liars. the pieces of crap that has infected our Dail, has gotten away with far too much.

    How has the likes of Mr Ahern, Howlin, Sean Sherlock, Michael Martin and on and on and on... continued to do and say what they do?
    ...Because we have been too hesitant to say and stand up about how we really feel.

    Well... ENOUGH!

    Those that want to stay ever polite and not to fully express their ire, anger and wish to behave like lambs to the slaughter, go ahead, carry on - see where it gets you and where it gets this nation.
    ...It will be pretty much the same as before - and don't act all shocked and surprised in the future.
    Don't say you weren't told.

    Wake up and kop the hell on!
    Do something, do anything, stop biting your words and say exactly how you feel, to the political people that deserve it in Dublin!


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    #7535
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,743 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Biggins wrote: »
    They want you to cough up €160 MIllion - after they have already taken €170 Million from the very same councils, they now suddenly in ironic show of supposed care for them, want you to put it back in - after their thieving!

    ...And with their taking of €170 Million - there is still a €10 Million shortfall.

    ...So others now mad enough, will fork out more money from their own pockets - to cover (almost!) the finances that Dublin has deemed to take away from the councils and boroughs that they say they are worried about!

    Thats right, your forking out now to cover the money that thieves have taken and now those very same disgusting, two faced bastard thieves are telling you, your going to pay for their actions!

    "How do you like them apples?"

    Are you going to be a blind lead sheep and swallow it - or are you going to stand up and tell them to go fcuk themselves!

    Repeat after me if you choose to pay for their thievery...

    "Baaaaa... Baaaaa... Baaaaa... Baaaaa..."

    ................................

    And by the way, you might ask where the €170 million will be going to every year instead, which they have decided to take?
    Look to the banks and bondholders yet again? They want their blood money you sheep!
    They don't give a fcuk where a government robs parts of its payment from! Now pay the fcuk up like a good little lead by the nose animal!

    How many people have you got in the Irish Democratic Party now?


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    #7536
    DonkyPlonk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9 ✭DonkyPlonk


    I'll say I wont, then grumble for a bit, then pay when it starts to get serious.


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    #7537
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    How many people have you got in the Irish Democratic Party now?

    I don't have access to the numbers but judging from the org's forum, there is certainly many, many from all corners of the country.
    People have just had enough and are tiresome of the same old power swapping, musical chairs parties.


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    #7538
    Slick50
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    lugha wrote: »
    Of course, when people have to ensure perhaps a slightly larger increase in car tax rates in the next budget or a slightly greater cut to child benefit, they won’t realise, or even know, that this was because the campaign against the household charge “succeeded”. We are going to pay this charge, at best we might succeed in changing how.

    Then that will be mission accomplished as far as I am concerned. Under no circumstances will I accept a tax on my home. You can't trust or believe any politician, god knows what penalties they could come up with further down the line, if they are allowed to introduce this tax. You've got to pay, or you can't stay? They can just f*ck right off.
    lugha wrote: »
    There was little doubt before the last general election that both FG and Lab were going to substantially follow the same path as FF had being doing and basically play ball with Europe. And they got the support of the people.

    This old tripe again, neither party got enough votes, so they have both compromised their policies to get into power, because that is what it is all about to them.


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    #7539
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Mod

    Regardless of what side you are on, please refrain from flaming. Clown, sheep references etc.

    Thanks.


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    #7540
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    After yesterdays threat-In the event of council workers knocking on doors looking for money I think setting up a neighbourhood watch group in as many areas as possible to counter it, if an area is properly organised if any council workers dare coming knocking on doors for money they ran out of the area faster then they came in.


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    #7541
    CajunOnTour
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭CajunOnTour


    Man! Still going strong here after 7.5k posts.

    I think the legitimacy (of the tax) issue is gaining a lot of traction...judging by my observations of rather heated pub sessions on Friday and last night.

    People are really steamed up- at least when they've a few pints taken!

    Civil Wars have started over issues like this!


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    #7542
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Because they're the people accusing us of selfishness, and refusing to pay our way.

    Realistically, how many of us would be on Phil Hogan's salary? A salary which (even when on 110 k) he refused to 'pay his way' by giving something back to the state when asked to give 10%.

    He's now on 170k btw (not even three years later)

    I'm surprised you had to ask that question tbh.
    Actually most of the posters here against the tax are in my opinion far from selfish, I would say you oppose it on a variety of grounds, not all of which I agree with,but some which are valid and reasonable.
    I just think the debate should centre on the tax/Charge and not on the earrnings of of politicians, which is a different but very relavent issue.
    As I said before Im paying because I got screwed over on the bin charges which the same people opposing this charge urged us not to pay, cost me a mint in the long run when I sold my house. once bitten twice shy!


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    #7543
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,743 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Biggins wrote: »
    I don't have access to the numbers but judging from the org's forum, there is certainly many, many from all corners of the country.
    People have just had enough and are tiresome of the same old power swapping, musical chairs parties.

    Whichever parties are in power and that would include yours if they got elected have to battle against the natural instinct of people to preserve their wealth from the tax collectors. The evidence is here:

    http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/defaulters/archive/index.html#2010

    Every quarter the Revenue publish details of the outcome of their investigations showing defaulters having to stump up well over €100 million per quarter. There is very little respect for the democratic system from some people here but you can be assured that whoever they might like to see in charge of the pursestrings would come up against this same resistance. Most of these defaulter types are the sort who think "It's my money and I'm not giving my money to any ****er". Of course now they can dress that up as being motivated by some prinicipled objection to government policies.

    I can look back long enough to remember all the vitriol directed at the Mininsters for Finance for daring to part people from their cash or cutting back on their entitlements (Richie Ruin etc.). If you think you have found some new dispensation which changes human nature then a few months in power for your colleagues would soon disbuse you of the idea.


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    #7544
    CajunOnTour
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭CajunOnTour


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    There is very little respect for the democratic system from some people

    Agreed; mainly disrespected by those supporting this tax and the Government itself. The Government have no mandate to impose taxes to pay for the German Banks. Such a policy was explicitly and massively rejected at the election.


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    #7545
    Slick50
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    lividduck wrote: »
    I just think the debate should centre on the tax/Charge and not on the earrnings of of politicians, which is a different but very relavent issue.

    Which is it. If it's relevant, why shouldn't it be part of the debate?

    We have a big, fat arsed, hypocrite leading the charge, telling us "you have to pay" while crying that his "personal circumstances" won't allow him to make a contribution.

    Classic     Irish politics!


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    #7546
    howamidifferent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    Slick50 wrote: »
    We have a big, fat arsed, hypocrite leading the charge, telling us "you have to pay" while crying that his "personal circumstances" won't allow him to make a contribution.

    Classic     Irish politics!

    You couldnt make this siht up!! :mad:


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    #7547
    baldymac
    Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭baldymac


    no i will not be paying this 100e tax and shame on anyone who has done so


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    #7548
    CajunOnTour
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭CajunOnTour


    Slick50 wrote: »

    We have a big, fat arsed, hypocrite leading the charge, telling us "you have to pay" while crying that his "personal circumstances" won't allow him to make a contribution.

    Are we talking about Rocketman Noonan here? What are the "personal circumstances" ??


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    #7549
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    CajunOnTour wrote: »
    Agreed; mainly disrespected by those supporting this tax and the Government itself. The Government have no mandate to impose taxes to pay for the German Banks. Such a policy was explicitly and massively rejected at the election.
    How so?


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    #7550
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    My plans to buy a property this year are certainly taking a back seat for the time being. Unless I can see what benefits might actually be garnered from this charge which will, inevitably, becoming an increasing value-based property tax. I'm already paying huge taxes, USC, etc. and seeing very little in return for it.

    I didn't "go mad" during the boom times so why am I being expected to bail those who did out? Including bankers and foreign bond holders? Will everyone who pays these taxes be able to see where the money was appropriated in local services? Or will it just disappear down our national black hole of debt?


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    #7551
    CajunOnTour
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭CajunOnTour


    dvpower wrote: »
    How so?

    DV, I think you know! :rolleyes:

    What are Noonan's "personal circumstances" ?


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    #7552
    CajunOnTour
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭CajunOnTour


    BarackPyjama wrote: »

    I didn't "go mad" during the boom times so why am I being expected to bail those who did out? Including bankers and foreign bond holders?

    You did "go mad". Enda has told the whole world that you have!

    That's why you must pay the Germans.


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    #7553
    Priori
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Priori


    Not applicable to me thankfully, but I reckon I'd have held off so far if it was.


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    #7554
    CajunOnTour
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭CajunOnTour


    dvpower wrote: »
    How so?

    I knew I can across you before DV! You've made approx 300 posts on this thread in the past 14 days; consistently posting every day! (That's about 5% of the total!)

    There is no way you missed the issue of the illegitimacy of this tax - it has been repeatedly explained to you, by myself and several others.


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    #7555
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Slick50 wrote: »
    Then that will be mission accomplished as far as I am concerned. Under no circumstances will I accept a tax on my home. You can't trust or believe any politician, god knows what penalties they could come up with further down the line, if they are allowed to introduce this tax. You've got to pay, or you can't stay? They can just f*ck right off.

    Why not a “tax on your home” as you call it? If you lived at where else in Europe you would be paying this “tax”? And of course you already do pay “tax” by virtue of having a residential property in the form of vat rates on gas, electricity etc., even TV licences. Not to mention a nice belt in stamp duty if you bought a house in the boom. Why this sudden stance that your house not be taxed?

    And will you be happy if the government scrap this tax and replace it with something else and it turns out it will personally cost you €500 a year?
    Slick50 wrote: »
    This old tripe again, neither party got enough votes, so they have both compromised their policies to get into power, because that is what it is all about to them.

    Tripe is your word. I call it democracy. There was a clear alternative for the Irish people in the ULA and Sinn Fein but they overwhelmingly backed FG and Lab. And neither of these parties favoured a radically different approach to our crisis than FF had taken before them.
    CajunOnTour wrote: »
    The Government have no mandate to impose taxes to pay for the German Banks. Such a policy was explicitly and massively rejected at the election.
    No it wasn’t. I think you’ll find Sinn Fein and or the ULA did not win the last general election


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    #7556
    CajunOnTour
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭CajunOnTour


    lugha wrote: »

    No it wasn’t. I think you’ll find Sinn Fein and or the ULA did not win the last general election

    True, but two parties who promised to "burn the bondholders" and "renegotiate the crap deal" did. Then they scrapped any meaningful notion of democracy when they got power.


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    #7557
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    CajunOnTour wrote: »
    I knew I can across you before DV! You've made approx 300 posts on this thread in the past 14 days; consistently posting every day! (That's about 5% of the total!)

    There is no way you missed the issue of the illegitimacy of this tax - it has been repeatedly explained to you, by myself and several others.
    I was questioning how the electorate explicitly and massively rejected this tax at the last election.

    It may be arguable that the people didn't explicitly vote for this tax but in what way did they explicitly reject it?


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    #7558
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    CajunOnTour wrote: »
    True, but two parties who promised to "burn the bondholders" and "renegotiate the crap deal" did. Then they scrapped any meaningful notion of democracy when they got power.
    Some bondholders were burnt and there has been some renegotiation to the deal. So the government have been true to their word.

    Anyone who voted for FG or LAB at the last election with the expectation that the government were going to do what SF or the ULA were touting wasn't paying attention - they were always going to work the bailout agreement while trying to negotiate better terms. Obviously, promising to negotiate something comes with no gaurantees.

    btw, you put "renegotiate the crap deal" in quotes. Who exactly are you quoting?


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    #7559
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    CajunOnTour wrote: »
    True, but two parties who promised to "burn the bondholders" and "renegotiate the crap deal" did. Then they scrapped any meaningful notion of democracy when they got power.
    I think they are trying with some success to negotiate better terms for us. Promising to re-negotiate a deal (from a position of extreme weakness) can hardly be deemed to be reneged upon just because the terms were not massively changed in our favour (only an imbecile would have thought that was going to happen).

    And if, as you are implying, their dealings in office constitute a massive betrayal of the electorate, why are both parties, FG especially, doing so well in the polls?


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    #7560
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    lugha wrote: »
    And if, as you are implying, their dealings in office constitute a massive betrayal of the electorate, why are both parties, FG especially, doing so well in the polls?
    This is a good point. FG, in the Red C poll published today are up a few points.
    This doesn't square with the idea that they have no madate and have lost their legitimacy.


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    #7561
    CajunOnTour
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 82 ✭✭CajunOnTour


    dvpower wrote: »
    I was questioning how the electorate explicitly and massively rejected this tax at the last election.

    It may be arguable that the people didn't explicitly vote for this tax but in what way did they explicitly reject it?

    Yes. They used their one pen-stroke in five years to reject FF policies and were ignored.

    If FG/Lab thought they might win by saying "we'll have no choice but to implement FF policy" they wouldn't have had to lie, would they?

    But they knew that might tip Independents/SF/FF (even) into power - so they lied and destroyed democracy. :cool:


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