Bertie Ahern statement/resignation

Biggins · 23-03-2012 07:14PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

John Hume did his part but so did Bertie Ahern. A guy who worked extremely hard with Tony Blair. He even got awarded in the Basque region for his efforts in the peace process in Spain.

You see this makes me laugh - and its NOT in any way a dig at you or your opinion.

People like Hume have worked tirelessly for years/decades to get the main guys on both sides just to the table, to even then talk peace.
What has taken a very long time to do that - is then brushed too easily aside and the later guys that having spent much less time - or no time - on quiet meetings, possible very dangerous ones like earlier people have, go then and take the much credit.

Short version:
While Ahern was possibly busy raking in the dosh in some form or another, others were out there doing the real stuff - walking the streets of troubles and facing the armed participants face to face, in their dark homes and corners.
...Yet Ahern in his brief period of later participation, gets all the credit by some!

Naa, Ahern can kiss me ass - Hume could teach the man how to be a good politician any day - but Ahern is not worth the effort.

mrrepublic · 23-03-2012 08:38PM

F.F. created and put in place the peace process whereas the F.G. crowd still believed that the mess created by Michael Collins would never be sorted out.
UP F.F. the party of the people.

The King of Moo · 23-03-2012 08:41PM

mrrepublic wrote: »

F.F. created and put in place the peace process whereas the F.G. crowd still believed that the mess created by Michael Collins would never be sorted out.
UP F.F. the party of the people.

So why do so many of the people in this country hate them, and why have so many of their most prominent members (Ahern, Cowen etc) shown a complete lack of respect for the public and their wishes?

mrrepublic · 23-03-2012 08:49PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

So why do so many of the people in this country hate them, and why have so many of their most prominent members (Ahern, Cowen etc) shown a complete lack of respect for the public and their wishes?

Since the foundation of the State the people have put F.F. in power more often than any other party and come the next election the people will once again elect F.F. because the new breed and younger generation of F.F. candidates will appeal to all. F.G. will collapse as they have allways done in the past.
The larger farmers and most successful business men want F.F. back in power in order to get the Country up and running again.

The King of Moo · 23-03-2012 09:01PM

mrrepublic wrote: »

Since the foundation of the State the people have put F.F. in power more often than any other party and come the next election the people will once again elect F.F. because the new breed and younger generation of F.F. candidates will appeal to all. F.G. will collapse as they have allways done in the past.
The larger farmers and most successful business men want F.F. back in power in order to get the Country up and running again.

That's very wishful thinking, after they were decimated at the last election (which is much more relevant than any of the elections before then).

The only thing Fianna Fáil have going for them is that Fine Gael aren't much better in a lot of ways, and Enda Kenny isn't a charismatic figure.
Those the only reasons Fianna Fáil managed to win the 2007 election.

I think people are going to remember Fianna Fáil's many failings (which I'm sure you acknowledge) a lot longer than you think.

Biggins · 23-03-2012 09:02PM

mrrepublic wrote: »

Since the foundation of the State the people have put F.F. in power more often than any other party and come the next election the people will once again elect F.F. because the new breed and younger generation of F.F. candidates will appeal to all. F.G. will collapse as they have allways done in the past.
The larger farmers and most successful business men want F.F. back in power in order to get the Country up and running again.

Correction:
The larger farmers and most successful business men want F.F. back in power in order to get out of the the country what they can!

Maybe they are still thinking that way?

To Mr Micheál Martin:

“You’re representing a new Fianna Fail, but then I was thinking about two things from your past. One of them being a – totally legitimate – donation by [Cork property developer] Owen O’Callaghan that found its way into your wife’s Dublin bank account. That seemed strange to me and had a sniff of the old Fianna Fail.

And the second thing, in the Mahon Tribunal you were asked if you ever brought Owen O’Callaghan to meet Bertie Ahern and you said no that you would have remembered if such a thing happened. And then you were shown Mr Ahern’s ministerial diary which seemed to recollect a meeting between yourself, Bertie Ahern and Owen O’Callaghan but you said you couldn’t recall it...

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/03/05/micahel-martin-and-the-mahon-tribunal-report/

Next leader in a line of FF heads, to have questions hanging over their head - ALREADY?

Logical Fallacy · 23-03-2012 09:18PM

mrrepublic wrote: »

Since the foundation of the State the people have put F.F. in power more often than any other party and come the next election the people will once again elect F.F. because the new breed and younger generation of F.F. candidates will appeal to all. F.G. will collapse as they have allways done in the past.
The larger farmers and most successful business men want F.F. back in power in order to get the Country up and running again.

The Greens will be back in before FF tbh.

RobbingBandit · 23-03-2012 09:45PM

Biggins wrote: »

NO

JOHN HUME DID THAT.

The shyster just later after years/decades of effort by Hume (front stage and back), came along and signed on the dotted line!

Damn right on this one, Bertie and Tony Blair just happened to be the ones in power in the UK and Ireland at the time. Look at Blair 3 years later he went to war for ****s sake. Bertie will get what is coming to him one way or another.

up for anything · 23-03-2012 10:02PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Bertie is a hero to many people up here. I think that is unfair on Bertie Ahern. His contribution can't be underestimated.

Luckily for you in the North you don't have to live with the result the rest of his contributions to Ireland caused. :rolleyes:

RobbingBandit · 23-03-2012 10:07PM

Men like Chuck Feeney should get the credit,Bertie signed his name that was all.

St.Spodo · 23-03-2012 10:14PM

I have a feeling history will be kinder to Ahern than most of us here would like.

ilovesleep · 23-03-2012 10:23PM

I wonder is there any way the nation could protest to get the Fcuking Fagg0ts to disband.

mloc · 23-03-2012 10:25PM

mrrepublic wrote: »

The larger farmers and most successful business men want F.F. back in power in order to get the Country up and running again.

It's this bizarre attitude that has put Ireland where it is now.

Every party and political body has some level of corruption associated with it, there is no doubt, but F.F. is alone in that a systemic, endemic and deeply rooted culture of corruption has defined the party at all levels over the last few decades. From backwards councillors to corrupt Taoisigh, the number of clean FF TDs is undoubtedly in the minority.

The idea that people cite the FF government's effect on the construction industry as a positive, it really scares me. To artificially bolster an industry to such an extent as they did, which was a massive factor in the sudden and catastrophic failure of the Irish housing market, was inexcusable.

Biggins · 23-03-2012 10:27PM

ilovesleep wrote: »

I wonder is there any way the nation could protest to get the Fcuking Fagg0ts to disband.

If you want to be real effective, go after the creeps thats funding them.
Stop the money flow and you help kill the organisation.
Name and shame those thats continuing to prop up this farce of a party and you help pull thee major supports from under them.
Its cold, ruthless - but effective.

mrrepublic · 23-03-2012 10:36PM

Biggins wrote: »

If you want to be real effective, go after the creeps thats funding them.
Stop the money flow and you help kill the organisation.
Name and shame those thats continuing to prop up this farce of a party and you help pull thee major supports from under them.
Its cold, ruthless - but effective.

those of you that want to get rid of F.F.
Wake up to reality F.F. is bigger than any amount of grudges you carry.
What do you want F.G., Lab, S.F. are ye for real.
UP F.F.

Biggins · 23-03-2012 10:39PM

mrrepublic wrote: »

those of you that want to get rid of F.F.
Wake up to reality F.F. is bigger than any amount of grudges you carry.
What do you want F.G., Lab, S.F. are ye for real.
UP F.F.

The bigger they are, the harder they... O'... whats the last word? :cool:

The King of Moo · 23-03-2012 10:39PM

mrrepublic wrote: »

those of you that want to get rid of F.F.
Wake up to reality F.F. is bigger than any amount of grudges you carry.
What do you want F.G., Lab, S.F. are ye for real.
UP F.F.

Could you address some of the issues with Fianna Fáil people have raised in this thread, such as the culture of corruption, Ahern's obvious corruption in particular, and their inflation of the construction industry?

"The others are worse" isn't much of a defence, but I can understand that there's not much other viable defence of the party.

galwayrush · 23-03-2012 10:43PM

mrrepublic wrote: »

those of you that want to get rid of F.F.
Wake up to reality F.F. is bigger than any amount of grudges you carry.
What do you want F.G., Lab, S.F. are ye for real.
UP F.F.

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:
FF are by far the worst of a bad lot..

mloc · 23-03-2012 10:46PM

There will always be room for FF in Ireland.

There will always be people that despite the evidence, want to cling on to the culture of corruption, patronism, nepotism and always putting local politics above national issues. It is in many ways similar to blind faith; no matter what they are shown, or what they are told, it is impossible for them to see Fianna Fail and it's endemic culture of corruption in a rational way.

It might fade into relative obscurity, but dark heart of Fianna Fail, still beating particularly in many rural areas around Ireland, won't come to a standstill.

mrrepublic · 23-03-2012 10:50PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

Could you address some of the issues with Fianna Fáil people have raised in this thread, such as the culture of corruption, Ahern's obvious corruption in particular, and their inflation of the construction industry?

"The others are worse" isn't much of a defence, but I can understand that there's not much other viable defence of the party.[

All great economies depend on big business and a cosy relationship with government that is the reality. this is what leads to employment, investment etc.
F.F. , Lab. , S.F. ,are full of back water poor mouths that have no grasp of the real world and how to ignite the economy.
F.F.'s track record proves that they know what makes the wheels turn, it may be distasteful but it is the real world.
B.A. . B.C. , and M.M. are upright straight decent people that know more about the workings of a successful economy than any of those socialists now in power.

The King of Moo · 23-03-2012 10:53PM

mrrepublic wrote: »

All great economies depend on big business and a cosy relationship with government that is the reality. this is what leads to employment, investment etc.
F.F. , Lab. , S.F. ,are full of back water poor mouths that have no grasp of the real world and how to ignite the economy.
F.F.'s track record proves that they know what makes the wheels turn, it may be distasteful but it is the real world.
B.A. . B.C. , and M.M. are upright straight decent people that know more about the workings of a successful economy than any of those socialists now in power.

No offence, but I laughed out loud at that last part!

So you basically admit that what makes Fianna Fáil so great is the fact that they're willing to get their hands dirty and serve business interests, yet you also claim three of their biggest shysters and gombeens are upright straight decent people!

Again, no offence, but they've really got you brainwashed so much that you're a master at doublethink.

galwayrush · 23-03-2012 10:56PM

mrrepublic wrote: »

[.[

All great economies depend on big business and a cosy relationship with government that is the reality. this is what leads to employment, investment etc.
F.F. , Lab. , S.F. ,are full of back water poor mouths that have no grasp of the real world and how to ignite the economy.
F.F.'s track record proves that they know what makes the wheels turn, it may be distasteful but it is the real world.
B.A. . B.C. , and M.M. are upright straight decent people that know more about the workings of a successful economy than any of those socialists now in power.

Correct.

23-03-2012 11:08PM

RobbingBandit wrote: »

FYP.

Probably a better example in all fairness. i suppose Berlusconi would be seen from Blatters point of view as a 'Messi' wheras Bertie might be more of a 'Cristiano Ronaldo'

galwayrush · 23-03-2012 11:10PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Probably a better example in all fairness. i suppose Berlusconi would be seen from Blatters point of view as a 'Messi' wheras Bertie might be more of a 'Cristiano Ronaldo'

I think Bertie's more of an Andy Carroll ....:D

23-03-2012 11:19PM

galwayrush wrote: »

I think Bertie's more of an Andy Carroll ....:D

In terms of being a corrupt b*stard Bertie is up there with the best in the world ala maybe Matthew Macklin who fell short of a world title last saturday night. While Bertie Ahern is a top contender for the belt he would probably suffer a TKO to Berlusconi in the 10th or 11th round but would give him a few lacerations no doubt. Maybe even stagger him.

Hey even the Nigerians wanted advice from him. Thats saying something.

galwayrush · 23-03-2012 11:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

In terms of being a corrupt b*stard Bertie is up there with the best in the world ala maybe Matthew Macklin who fell short of a world title last saturday night. While Bertie Ahern is a top contender for the belt he would probably suffer a TKO to Berlusconi in the 10th or 11th round but would give him a few lacerations no doubt. Maybe even stagger him.

Hey even the Nigerians wanted advice from him. Thats saying something.

The old 911 scam needs updating from a true master....:D

23-03-2012 11:27PM

galwayrush wrote: »

The old 911 scam needs updating from a true master....:D

The 'Prince' wanted advice from 'the King'.........of corruption

Wild Bill · 24-03-2012 12:07AM

Show Time wrote: »

We are in a South American league of corrupt politicians if not better.

Clearly you know nothing about political corruption in North America. :rolleyes:

We're much closer to that in terms of modus operandi.

Wild Bill · 24-03-2012 12:09AM

mloc wrote: »

There will always be room for FF in Ireland.

There will always be people that despite the evidence, want to cling on to the culture of corruption, patronism, nepotism and always putting local politics above national issues. It is in many ways similar to blind faith; no matter what they are shown, or what they are told, it is impossible for them to see Fianna Fail and it's endemic culture of corruption in a rational way.

It might fade into relative obscurity, but dark heart of Fianna Fail, still beating particularly in many rural areas around Ireland, won't come to a standstill.

Ditto FG and Labour.

mloc · 24-03-2012 12:18AM

Wild Bill wrote: »

Ditto FG and Labour.

I'd agree that there is some corruption in both parties, but not to same extent as FF. FF is simply a party of corruption.

Bertie Ahern statement/resignation

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