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The Anti-Social Network-victims of trolling

24

Comments

  • #32
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Millicent wrote: »
    When you say "get over it", what do you imagine the person is going to do with that? Think to themselves, "Oh. Perhaps I was wrong to get upset over those eejits. I should just stop being bothered by it"? It doesn't work like that for most.

    People do need to get over it, that's fair enough, but being told to do so is probably not going to help achieve that aim, don't you think?

    Even if it's not intended, it's how it could be perceived by the victim in that situation.

    It's their problem if they're reading into something completely incorrectly.


  • #33
    Millicent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    amacachi wrote: »
    It's their problem if they're reading into something completely incorrectly.

    Would it not be a fault in communication on both sides? Perhaps the person whose post they're reading into could phrase it better?


  • #34
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


  • #35
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Millicent wrote: »
    Would it not be a fault in communication on both sides? Perhaps the person whose post they're reading into could phrase it better?

    Earlier in the thread I was told that's it's an obvious insinuation.


  • #36
    Millicent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    amacachi wrote: »
    Earlier in the thread I was told that's it's an obvious insinuation.

    Well take for example the article Aguila just linked to. In that, a teenager posted messages on dead teenage girls' memorial pages saying things like "I can't get out of my coffin, I have scratched my nails to the bone" to a grieving mother on Mother's Day. Do you think that mother would benefit from being told to "get over it"?


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  • #37
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


  • #38
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    Anyone with that level of sociopathic disregard for another person and (particularly in wake of suicide) that persons family has, needless to say, very serious issues.

    Consider though, that in many secondary schools everywhere, a lot of this stuff is exactly the same as what you would see a small minority of cúntbags do to someone, but here made more public by having been done on the internet.

    The worst of this kind of stuff happens much less overtly, is much more prevalent and damaging, and much more often is given a blind eye.


  • #39
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Millicent wrote: »
    Well take for example the article Aguila just linked to. In that, a teenager posted messages on dead teenage girls' memorial pages saying things like "I can't get out of my coffin, I have scratched my nails to the bone" to a grieving mother on Mother's Day. Do you think that mother would benefit from being told to "get over it"?

    Better to pay hundreds or thousands on therapy to eventually be told to "let go" instead? Exact same message.

    Maybe I've just selected my friends very, very wisely and they're the only people who can handle honesty and straightforward advice.


  • #40
    AskMyChocolate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭AskMyChocolate


    amacachi wrote: »
    Earlier in the thread I was told that's it's an obvious insinuation.

    It is.It is directly nuanced to apportion blame for hypersensitivity to the victim. It's a matter of language. If you hada genuine interest in helping the victim to "get over it", you would say something along the lines of, "Don't mind those cnuts, they're just cnuts, and unfortunately we all have to deal with bullies and cnuts in this world.It's sad but you can't let the bullying cnuts get you down cos then they win." Saying "get over it" is just the next step of bullying.


  • #41
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    AskMyChocolate wrote: »
    It is.It is directly nuanced to apportion blame for hypersensitivity to the victim. It's a matter of language. If you hada genuine interest in helping the victim to "get over it", you would say something along the lines of, "Don't mind those cnuts, they're just cnuts, and unfortunately we all have to deal with bullies and cnuts in this world.It's sad but you can't let the bullying cnuts get you down cos then they win."

    Followed by "Don't let go of it, don't get over it, here's 4 turtles and a rat suit so you can get revenge some day."?

    I really can't believe that people can read so bloody much into "get over it".


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  • #42
    Millicent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    amacachi wrote: »
    Better to pay hundreds or thousands on therapy to eventually be told to "let go" instead? Exact same message.

    Maybe I've just selected my friends very, very wisely and they're the only people who can handle honesty and straightforward advice.

    I'm not precious--I can take honesty. However, phrasing is important and I try to be conscious of that when I deal with other people. If it will save someone being hurt further, why not be careful of how you phrase things in a way like AskMyChocolate suggested?

    And "let go" is not the same message as "get over it". Not by a long shot.


  • #43
    Millicent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    amacachi wrote: »
    Followed by "Don't let go of it, don't get over it, here's 4 turtles and a rat suit so you can get revenge some day."?

    I really can't believe that people can read so bloody much into "get over it".

    If this many people are reading the same thing into it, surely that's a sign that not everyone perceives the phrase as you do?

    ETA: "Get over it" is dismissive whether you intend it to be or not.


  • #44
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Millicent wrote: »
    I'm not precious--I can take honesty. However, phrasing is important and I try to be conscious of that when I deal with other people. If it will save someone being hurt further, why not be careful of how you phrase things in a way like AskMyChocolate suggested?

    And "let go" is not the same message as "get over it". Not by a long shot.
    So now we've gotten to the point where the person saying "get over it" is just phrasing it badly with no intended insinuation. I always thought it was the person making the statement who insinuated something so are you agreeing with what I said earlier?


  • #45
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Millicent wrote: »
    If this many people are reading the same thing into it, surely that's a sign that not everyone perceives the phrase as you do?

    ETA: "Get over it" is dismissive whether you intend it to be or not.

    How many people? Like I said, I've obviously chosen my friends very wisely.


  • #46
    AskMyChocolate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭AskMyChocolate


    amacachi wrote: »
    So now we've gotten to the point where the person saying "get over it" is just phrasing it badly with no intended insinuation. I always thought it was the person making the statement who insinuated something so are you agreeing with what I said earlier?

    Surely you can see that no-one is agreeing with what you said. By your logic it's perfectly acceptable to say to someone who's just been mugged "Oh get up y'soft sh1te and stop crying like a baby". After all what other option have they? Stay on the ground?


  • #47
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Its all funny really . And at the end of the day , theyre just words.


  • #48
    Millicent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    amacachi wrote: »
    So now we've gotten to the point where the person saying "get over it" is just phrasing it badly with no intended insinuation. I always thought it was the person making the statement who insinuated something so are you agreeing with what I said earlier?

    I'm not sure. You're kind of talking in circles. It depends on the person, really. While you may not mean to insinuate anything, saying "get over it" usually has an implied judgement. I don't understand why you wouldn't just err on the side of caution to spare someone's feelings? Surely it's not that big a deal to phrase yourself differently?
    amacachi wrote: »
    How many people? Like I said, I've obviously chosen my friends very wisely.

    Quite a few. And good for you. What has that to do with being careful with your language? So your friends are thick-skinned. Not everyone is.


  • #49
    Millicent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Its all funny really . And at the end of the day , theyre just words.

    Not really but since you seem to look up to Eric Cartman, there's probably no point in explaining where it's not funny.


  • #50
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    AskMyChocolate wrote: »
    Surely you can see that no-one is agreeing with what you said. By your logic it's perfectly acceptable to say to someone who's just been mugged "Oh get up y'soft sh1te and stop crying like a baby". After all what other option have they? Stay on the ground?
    Yeah maybe spit on them as well. Sweet Jesus.
    Millicent wrote: »
    I'm not sure You're kind of talking in circles. It depends on the person, really. While you may not mean to insinuate anything, saying "get over it" usually has an implied judgement. I don't understand why you wouldn't just err on the side of caution to spare someone's feelings? Surely it's not that big a deal to phrase yourself differently?
    Inferred, not implied. Crucial difference.
    Quite a few. And good for you. What has that to do with being careful with your language? So your friends are thick-skinned. Not everyone is.
    The only way I'd spend time with people who needed their hand held and 15 sentences said when a couple would suffice would be if it were paid employment. Luckily such an industry exists. :pac:


  • #51
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,669 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Its all funny really . And at the end of the day , theyre just words.



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  • #52
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Millicent wrote: »
    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Its all funny really . And at the end of the day , theyre just words.

    Not really but since you seem to look up to Eric Cartman, there's probably no point in explaining where it's not funny.

    Humor is subjective , some people dont like sex jokes , others dont like sexist jokes or puns ... If you go to an RIP facebook page and theres comments that would be seen as 'horrible' by most people , its clearly a weak troll . To not know how to spot such basic trolling and ignore it these days is almost impossible in the modern internet.

    Whatever about direct work , or 'cyberbullying' this is a much easier form to ignore as its normally not directed at a living person or in private . To be fair if you cant ignore a few harmless , albeit vulgar words on the internet , then you may aswell cancel your broadband and never leave the house.


  • #53
    Millicent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    amacachi wrote: »
    Inferred, not implied. Crucial difference.

    Often implied. Certain language holds weight that may not be intended by the speaker. Words like the n-word or cunt offend a whole lot of people even where no meaning is meant. It's the same thing with "get over it". It has an embedded meaning that the user may not mean but cannot escape from.
    amacachi wrote: »
    The only way I'd spend time with people who needed their hand held and 15 sentences said when a couple would suffice would be if it were paid employment. Luckily such an industry exists. :pac:

    And who said anything about needing their hand held? What is so hard about saying "Those people are dicks, don't let them get to you" in place of "get over it"? If that's really your meaning, surely you would want to make that apparent.


  • #54
    Millicent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Humor is subjective , some people dont like sex jokes , others dont like sexist jokes or puns ... If you go to an RIP facebook page and theres comments that would be seen as 'horrible' by most people , its clearly a weak troll . To not know how to spot such basic trolling and ignore it these days is almost impossible in the modern internet.

    Whatever about direct work , or 'cyberbullying' this is a much easier form to ignore as its normally not directed at a living person or in private . To be fair if you cant ignore a few harmless , albeit vulgar words on the internet , then you may aswell cancel your broadband and never leave the house.

    I have a pretty dark sense of humour and find the worst things funny. Those memorial pages aren't even funny. There's no skill or art to that sort of trolling and it's setting out to cause offence against grieving people. Just because you can spot a troll like that doesn't make it less upsetting when you're on the receiving end.

    I kind of agree with you on the cyberbullying in that you can turn off a computer but why should a person have to stay off their Facebook account or their Boards account or whatever because someone is acting like a fuckwit?


  • #55
    haminka
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 564 ✭✭✭haminka


    I am a member of a blog discussion forum and a couple of years ago I was literally stalked by a clearly deranged individual who "only wanted to be best friends" and when I ignored her, she started attacking me, stalked me through all discussions with nasty comments, then started creating other nicks (at one point she had about four) to befriend me through them. She even tried to bait people who were friendly with me against me.
    Now, despite the fact that this was innocent compared with some had core trolling going on, the forum was not the rollercoaster type where people discuss their marital and mental health problems while disclosing some very intimate detail to the extent that still baffles me and it was all anonymous, it still felt very unpleasant. She was eventually completely blocked and the forum was nicer without her. So I can understand people who hate trolls and have no understanding for any kind of trolling. It's stupid, it's nasty and those people either vent out some supressed issues they have by trolling or are bulies in real life as well.


  • #56
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Millicent wrote: »
    Often implied. Certain language holds weight that may not be intended by the speaker. Words like the n-word or cunt offend a whole lot of people even where no meaning is meant. It's the same thing with "get over it". It has an embedded meaning that the user may not mean but cannot escape from.
    Accidental implication, don't think insinuations are intentional.
    And who said anything about needing their hand held? What is so hard about saying "Those people are dicks, don't let them get to you" in place of "get over it"? If that's really your meaning, surely you would want to make that apparent.
    Earlier:
    amacachi wrote: »
    The opposite to "get over it" is "don't get over it". The people being dicks are being dicks, people still have to get over bad stuff that happens to them or there wouldn't be many people reaching their teens.
    They're being dicks, the person being targeted (hmm, always thought there'd be three t's in that) still has to get over it.


  • #57
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Millicent wrote: »
    I kind of agree with you on the cyberbullying in that you can turn off a computer but why should a person have to stay off their Facebook account or their Boards account or whatever because someone is acting like a fuckwit?
    They shouldn't have to but it's not exactly sensible to expose oneself to something they won't like. Obviously I'm not talking about an individual instance.


  • #58
    Millicent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    amacachi wrote: »

    They're being dicks, the person being targeted (hmm, always thought there'd be three t's in that) still has to get over it.

    Yes but do you not get why you saying it is not helpful in the slightest? Commiseration is the appropriate response there; "get over it" is not commiserating in the slightest.


  • #59
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Millicent wrote: »
    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Humor is subjective , some people dont like sex jokes , others dont like sexist jokes or puns ... If you go to an RIP facebook page and theres comments that would be seen as 'horrible' by most people , its clearly a weak troll . To not know how to spot such basic trolling and ignore it these days is almost impossible in the modern internet.

    Whatever about direct work , or 'cyberbullying' this is a much easier form to ignore as its normally not directed at a living person or in private . To be fair if you cant ignore a few harmless , albeit vulgar words on the internet , then you may aswell cancel your broadband and never leave the house.

    I have a pretty dark sense of humour and find the worst things funny. Those memorial pages aren't even funny. There's no skill or art to that sort of trolling and it's setting out to cause offence against grieving people. Just because you can spot a troll like that doesn't make it less upsetting when you're on the receiving end.

    I kind of agree with you on the cyberbullying in that you can turn off a computer but why should a person have to stay off their Facebook account or their Boards account or whatever because someone is acting like a f[COLOR="Black"]uc[/COLOR]kwit?

    Ofcourse theres no skill or art to it , but if nobody got offended and ignored it , it would go away . Its not the laugh of putting it up that does it for these trolls , its the people who are just as bad for commenting back on it who get upset about the shíttest trolling around.

    I think you slightly misunderstood , i was saying 'cyberbullying' ,( i use ' ' because its such a bad term for it ) is worse because its directed to cause offence to a single living target , and i agree nobody should have to ddeal with that on their facebook etc (hence delete and block buttons)


  • #60
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Millicent wrote: »
    Yes but do you not get why you saying it is not helpful in the slightest? Commiseration is the appropriate response there; "get over it" is not commiserating in the slightest.

    If someone is going to have to get over something and is looking for someone to say something else I'd say it was just indulging them.


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  • #61
    Millicent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Ofcourse theres no skill or art to it , but if nobody got offended and ignored it , it would go away . Its not the laugh of putting it up that does it for these trolls , its the people who are just as bad for commenting back on it who get upset about the shíttest trolling around.

    I think you slightly misunderstood , i was saying 'cyberbullying' ,( i use ' ' because its such a bad term for it ) is worse because its directed to cause offence to a single living target , and i agree nobody should have to ddeal with that on their facebook etc (hence delete and block buttons)

    Gotcha. Sorry. And yeah, it'd be great if everyone could ignore it but people's emotions in those situations (understandably) are going to get the better of them more often than not.


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