What would you do with Peyton Manning?

20-03-2012 01:55AM

TimThomas wrote: »

I would take light over him any day because Light is more balanced than Clady and stronger and that doesn't say a lot for Clady's run blocking as Light aint great at it either but he is better than Clady. So a more balanced LT.

i dont think hes a worse run blocker well agree to disagree

clady is only 25 hes going to improve anyway so he can learn to run block better

Dohnny Jepp · 20-03-2012 01:55AM

Mohammed Nutritious Earache wrote: »

easily i think hes top 2 to be honest

joe thomas, jake long?

20-03-2012 01:57AM

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

joe thomas, jake long?

ya maby i got a bit carried away with that one

Dohnny Jepp · 20-03-2012 01:58AM

Maybe a little :P, i think the two i mentioned above are the best two, and then you have a group of five or so that are all in or around the same level.

20-03-2012 02:00AM

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

Maybe a little :P, i think the two i mentioned above are the best two, and then you have a group of five or so that are all in or around the same level.

i would agree there good at everything its hard to rank after them because its hard to say how much more important pass blocking is for a lt

eagle eye · 20-03-2012 02:32AM

TimThomas wrote: »

Oh I see so the majority in here say he is Top 10 and that is enough of a justification for you so you don't feel the need to justify your own opinion because everyone else says he is top 10 and you agree right? So because I go against the grain and all of sudden you want me to justify my opinion. Ok I get you.

I will play your little game here.

He is a great pass blocker with a solid base and technique but he isnt as strong as most Left tackles and he cant run block for sh1t hence all of the holding calls on him. As the more modern Ends get bigger and faster Clady's technique wont be enough to help him anymore.

Well I just watched a video of Willis McGahee's highlights from last year and his run blocking looked real good to me in that. I know its only a highlights video but I'm seeing the man run blocking at a very high level in it.

TimThomas · 20-03-2012 02:41AM

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I just watched a video of Willis McGahee's highlights from last year and his run blocking looked real good to me in that. I know its only a highlights video but I'm seeing the man run blocking at a very high level in it.

You actually pointed out the flaw behind what you just wrote. There are some awful linemen in the NFL and I bet you can find lots of highlights of them making good blocks for their runningbacks hence why that particular play was in a highlight to begin with. For someone who is questioning my opinion you seem to do very little in the way of justifying your own. But Im guessing my low post count has something to do with it.

titan18 · 20-03-2012 03:10AM

Clady is an average enough LT tbh. Last year he was awful, but I'd put that down to Tebow holding a bit longer than other, but even without, he's still nowhere close to elite. His run blocking regressed more last year than pass blocking even with Tebow there.

Probably just inside top 10 over his career, as he was pretty good the years before tbh. Also, everyone says about his 0 sacks in his rookie season, but he gave up a lot of pressures, QB hits and penalities that year. Despite giving up a lot more sacks the years after, they were overall better years for him.

LTs who are definitely better are Peters, Long, Thomas, Whitworth, Roos, Ferguson, Brown and Gross. Others like Vollmer(when played there), Veldheer, Light,Penn, Albert etc are probably at a similar level. Gaither is more talented but has attitude issues. Also as someone might say Light over his career is better, but last 2/3 I'd say equal

neilster · 20-03-2012 10:16AM

titan18 wrote: »

Clady is an average enough LT tbh. Last year he was awful, but I'd put that down to Tebow holding a bit longer than other, but even without, he's still nowhere close to elite. His run blocking regressed more last year than pass blocking even with Tebow there.

Probably just inside top 10 over his career, as he was pretty good the years before tbh. Also, everyone says about his 0 sacks in his rookie season, but he gave up a lot of pressures, QB hits and penalities that year. Despite giving up a lot more sacks the years after, they were overall better years for him.

LTs who are definitely better are Peters, Long, Thomas, Whitworth, Roos, Ferguson, Brown and Gross. Others like Vollmer(when played there), Veldheer, Light,Penn, Albert etc are probably at a similar level. Gaither is more talented but has attitude issues. Also as someone might say Light over his career is better, but last 2/3 I'd say equal

I would say Clady would be at end of Top 10 over the first 3 years of his career. He tore patella in 2010 and this may have kept him back the year after . I will put it down to being a down year . He would be a Top 20 based on last year .

I think McGahee deserves enormous credit as he runs afer contact very well . Clady should and can be elite and may return to an upward curve in his development but 2011 wouldnt show that . To be elite he would have to eliminate some of the following in terms of technique which after 4 years shouldnt exist

-He struggles with pad height and also has a tendency to grab too wide . This inevitably leads to penalties , he is one of the most penalized LT in the league. You cant be elite and be this penalised
-Also as someone who done 36 reps on the bench he doesnt translate this strength onto the field. Defenders should be forced back with that strength, they arent . As an aside Mike Adams (16 reps) , Jonathan Martin & Reilly Reiff also have this problem which screams Right Tackle to me . Left Tackle is hard to draft well. Backup centres or versatile linemen with good feet can often project better than the tackles that are lauded.
- On the move he has the quickness with a 5.08 40 yd dash but he doesnt see whats ahead that well and other linemen are better at this facet
-I would also say he is in the Bottom 10 in Run Blocking , his pads arent low enough and he doesnt push defenders out of the play

But to answer some of the stuff about no sacks and ProBowls etc, ProFootballFocus who i would rank way ahead of other sources had him 38th in Tackles in 2008 and 16th in 2009

"Clady allowed a league-high 37 pressures in 2008. That he didn’t allow a sack is a bit of a miracle that speaks directly to Jay Cutler‘s abilities in that area — Bears tackle Orlando Pace only allowed one sack of Cutler despite playing like a matador in 2009. Clady gave up eight sacks with the less tricky Kyle Orton back there in 2009, and it’s safe to say he’s not elite"

"The 12 penalties certainly hurt, and he wasn’t terrible with his pass blocking, but Clady continues to struggle to do much of anything in the run game. The option and Tebow caught teams off guard and bought the Denver line more credit than it warranted, so with a full season to figure it out, opponents are likely to make Clady’s struggles all the more evident if he doesn’t improve."

Funny enough after being drafted close to where Clady was , Tyron Smith OT had a fine season at Right Tackle with Dallas (he was our best lineman as a rookie ) and switches to the Left this season. Its a long ways to go but i would draft Smith ahead of Clady today(maybe sticking neck out ). Matt Kalil kept Smith out of the LT role at USC and i wouldnt be sure about that today . I might draft Smith quicker but i would rate Kalil a little ahead of Clady projecting ahead . Clady is stronger but Kalil can add bulk.

This is the knock on Jonathan Martin & Reilly Reiff that lower strength means that they dont project their measurables onto the field, that they get drafted as franchise LTs but end up being RTs or even a Robert Gallery at Guard . The pick might be better employed elsewhere. Clady needs to rebound , much like Michael Oher, he can do it but will he?

His Pass Blocking in terms of Speed, Power & agility is elite and continues to be and he had a fine 2010 with promising seasons before that but he certainly needs a strong 2012. The other guys named by others a little ahead of him at the moment

eagle eye · 20-03-2012 10:34AM

TimThomas wrote: »

You actually pointed out the flaw behind what you just wrote. There are some awful linemen in the NFL and I bet you can find lots of highlights of them making good blocks for their runningbacks hence why that particular play was in a highlight to begin with. For someone who is questioning my opinion you seem to do very little in the way of justifying your own. But Im guessing my low post count has something to do with it.

Lol, the low post count has nothing to do with it, you are a Patriots fan who used the word 'fook' in a post.;)

Did you watch McGahee's highlight video? Its not just one block I was looking at, it ws pretty much every play that he was in on. He ended up on his backside in one of them but besides that one he looked good in all the plays that I seen him in. Even in the one he went down on he still got his job done.

spiralism · 20-03-2012 12:14PM

neilster wrote: »

I would say Clady would be at end of Top 10 over the first 3 years of his career. He tore patella in 2010 and this may have kept him back the year after . I will put it down to being a down year . He would be a Top 20 based on last year .

I think McGahee deserves enormous credit as he runs afer contact very well . Clady should and can be elite and may return to an upward curve in his development but 2011 wouldnt show that . To be elite he would have to eliminate some of the following in terms of technique which after 4 years shouldnt exist

-He struggles with pad height and also has a tendency to grab too wide . This inevitably leads to penalties , he is one of the most penalized LT in the league. You cant be elite and be this penalised
-Also as someone who done 36 reps on the bench he doesnt translate this strength onto the field. Defenders should be forced back with that strength, they arent . As an aside Mike Adams (16 reps) , Jonathan Martin & Reilly Reiff also have this problem which screams Right Tackle to me . Left Tackle is hard to draft well. Backup centres or versatile linemen with good feet can often project better than the tackles that are lauded.
- On the move he has the quickness with a 5.08 40 yd dash but he doesnt see whats ahead that well and other linemen are better at this facet
-I would also say he is in the Bottom 10 in Run Blocking , his pads arent low enough and he doesnt push defenders out of the play

But to answer some of the stuff about no sacks and ProBowls etc, ProFootballFocus who i would rank way ahead of other sources had him 38th in Tackles in 2008 and 16th in 2009

"Clady allowed a league-high 37 pressures in 2008. That he didn’t allow a sack is a bit of a miracle that speaks directly to Jay Cutler‘s abilities in that area — Bears tackle Orlando Pace only allowed one sack of Cutler despite playing like a matador in 2009. Clady gave up eight sacks with the less tricky Kyle Orton back there in 2009, and it’s safe to say he’s not elite"

"The 12 penalties certainly hurt, and he wasn’t terrible with his pass blocking, but Clady continues to struggle to do much of anything in the run game. The option and Tebow caught teams off guard and bought the Denver line more credit than it warranted, so with a full season to figure it out, opponents are likely to make Clady’s struggles all the more evident if he doesn’t improve."

Funny enough after being drafted close to where Clady was , Tyron Smith OT had a fine season at Right Tackle with Dallas (he was our best lineman as a rookie ) and switches to the Left this season. Its a long ways to go but i would draft Smith ahead of Clady today(maybe sticking neck out ). Matt Kalil kept Smith out of the LT role at USC and i wouldnt be sure about that today . I might draft Smith quicker but i would rate Kalil a little ahead of Clady projecting ahead . Clady is stronger but Kalil can add bulk.

This is the knock on Jonathan Martin & Reilly Reiff that lower strength means that they dont project their measurables onto the field, that they get drafted as franchise LTs but end up being RTs or even a Robert Gallery at Guard . The pick might be better employed elsewhere. Clady needs to rebound , much like Michael Oher, he can do it but will he?

His Pass Blocking in terms of Speed, Power & agility is elite and continues to be and he had a fine 2010 with promising seasons before that but he certainly needs a strong 2012. The other guys named by others a little ahead of him at the moment

Excellent analysis, fair ****s. I think the point about Cutler's excellent pocket presence is telling though, so i'd like to hope Clady moves back to his 08/09 level with Manning at QB. Run game wise he was drafted for Shanahan's Zone Blocking Scheme and admittedly his talents aren't nearly as well used in the Power Blocking game.

Jolly Red Giant · 20-03-2012 01:21PM

spiralism wrote: »

Excellent analysis, fair ****s. I think the point about Cutler's excellent pocket presence is telling though, so i'd like to hope Clady moves back to his 08/09 level with Manning at QB. Run game wise he was drafted for Shanahan's Zone Blocking Scheme and admittedly his talents aren't nearly as well used in the Power Blocking game.

With Manning quick release and ability to read defences Clady will be absolutely fine. There is a hell of a difference protecting Manning and trying to protect Tebow - and remember with Tebow the LT wasn't protecting his blindside. The problems caused with Tebow relate to the fact that DEs learned how not to over-pursue Tebow which meant the LT couldn't push the rusher around the corner resulting in holding pens (Tebow wouldn't step up into the pocket and was looking at running lanes rather than to pass).

me-skywalker · 20-03-2012 01:55PM

Well done Neilster, you done something most people fail to do in an engaging discussion. You gave a good detailed anaylsis with sound opinion based on facts and evidence. I've learned from that post.

Speaking of LT what do people think of Levi Brown? I see the Cards resigned him last week, he was an option I was hoping maybe the Packers might have done some wheeling and dealing on.

Jolly Red Giant · 20-03-2012 03:34PM

me-skywalker wrote: »

Speaking of LT what do people think of Levi Brown? I see the Cards resigned him last week, he was an option I was hoping maybe the Packers might have done some wheeling and dealing on.

probably the worst LT in the NFL

Jolly Red Giant · 20-03-2012 03:36PM

Deal Done - 5 years / $96million - Manning will be introduced as Bronco this afternoon (ET).

HigginsJ · 20-03-2012 03:47PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Deal Done - 5 years / $96million - Manning will be introduced as Bronco this afternoon (ET).

What sort of guarnateed money?

Jolly Red Giant · 20-03-2012 03:49PM

HigginsJ wrote: »

What sort of guarnateed money?

no indication yet - rumoured before to be in the $40-$50million range.

TimThomas · 20-03-2012 04:05PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

no indication yet - rumoured before to be in the $40-$50million range.

5 Year 96m according to Schefter

18m in 2012
40m 2013,2014
19m 2015,2016

Got this from ESPN.

Thats the breakdown but as JRG says no indication of what is guaranteed. Knowing Manning alot of it most likely is.

TimThomas · 20-03-2012 04:16PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Lol, the low post count has nothing to do with it, you are a Patriots fan who used the word 'fook' in a post.;)

Have no idea what you are talking about

Did you watch McGahee's highlight video? Its not just one block I was looking at, it ws pretty much every play that he was in on. He ended up on his backside in one of them but besides that one he looked good in all the plays that I seen him in. Even in the one he went down on he still got his job done.

I did watch the vid but highlight vids are generally a small amount of plays that turn out well for said player or team. If you were to base your opinion on highlight vids sure Ryan Leaf looked amazing at times. Im not the only one saying he run blocking is poor it has been mentioned by a fair few pundits over the last few years also. On whole he has regressed as a lineman. If you dont believe so that is fair enough no point debating it any more really.

me-skywalker · 20-03-2012 05:26PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

probably the worst LT in the NFL

That bad? Well not much improvement from our current LT options then haha

spiralism · 20-03-2012 06:21PM

Manning is going to continue wearing #18 in Denver after talking with Frank Tripucka personally in the last half an hour. Tripucka supposedly was cool with the idea and actively encouraged it, saying it would be an honour. Fair enough.

Just as long as we don't give Dallas Clark 44 if he comes lol. And i still don't know why we haven't retired 30 (Terrell Davis) or 84 (Shannon Sharpe) yet...

davyjose · 20-03-2012 06:37PM

spiralism wrote: »

Manning is going to continue wearing #18 in Denver after talking with Frank Tripucka personally in the last half an hour. Tripucka supposedly was cool with the idea and actively encouraged it, saying it would be an honour. Fair enough.

Just as long as we don't give Dallas Clark 44 if he comes lol. And i still don't know why we haven't retired 84 (Shannon Sharpe) yet...

Saw that. Fair play to Tripucka. Showed some video of him yesterday. The guy had a serious arm.

Can't believe all my favourite Colts are probably going to Denver. That'll be weird. i can't help but root for them next year (unless miraculously my Colts make the playoffs).

spiralism · 20-03-2012 06:41PM

davyjose wrote: »

Saw that. Fair play to Tripucka. Showed some video of him yesterday. The guy had a serious arm.

Can't believe all my favourite Colts are probably going to Denver. That'll be weird. i can't help but root for them next year (unless miraculously my Colts make the playoffs).

he invented interceptions sure :pac:

back in that day though, having said that, all QBs threw a mountain load of INTs, it was the name of the game

Yeah, i love the idea tbh, lot of classy likeable guys that i'll be proud to have on my team.

Jolly Red Giant · 20-03-2012 06:51PM

TimThomas wrote: »

5 Year 96m according to Schefter

18m in 2012
40m 2013,2014
19m 2015,2016

Got this from ESPN.

Thats the breakdown but as JRG says no indication of what is guaranteed. Knowing Manning alot of it most likely is.

Manning will receive
- a guaranteed $18million this season
- if he passes a physical/medical in March 2013 he will be paid a guaranteed $40million over 2013 and 2014.
-the final $19million is contingent on him playing in 2015 and 2016.
- the remaining $19million is tied to incentives based on play-offs, play-off wins and the SB.

davyjose · 20-03-2012 06:54PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Manning will receive
- a guaranteed $18million this season
- if he passes a physical/medical in March 2013 he will be paid a guaranteed $40million over 2013 and 2014.
-the final $19million is contingent on him playing in 2015 and 2016.
- the remaining $19million is tied to incentives based on play-offs, play-off wins and the SB.

Condon is so clever. If he passes a physical in March 2013... so this is different to the Colts' contract whereby they had the option to cut him before March. Now all he has to do is pass the medical, and he's $40million to the good, and can't be simply cut. Smart.

davyjose · 20-03-2012 06:55PM

spiralism wrote: »

he invented interceptions sure :pac:

back in that day though, having said that, all QBs threw a mountain load of INTs, it was the name of the game

Yeah, i love the idea tbh, lot of classy likeable guys that i'll be proud to have on my team.

Saturday is a class act altogether. And Peyton is not 100% Peyton without him. Look at the 2008 season, for instance.

spiralism · 20-03-2012 07:01PM

davyjose wrote: »

Saturday is a class act altogether. And Peyton is not 100% Peyton without him. Look at the 2008 season, for instance.

I'm hoping to God we get him so. He does have a couple of visits scheduled.

Would love to bring in Gary Brackett on defence, definition of class act.

Also, press conference for Manning, should start shortly:

davyjose · 20-03-2012 07:03PM

spiralism wrote: »

I'm hoping to God we get him so. He does have a couple of visits scheduled.

Would love to bring in Gary Brackett on defence, definition of class act.

Also, press conference for Manning, should start shortly:

Think Clark and Saturday are the big names though. They've played their whole careers with Manning, in his Offense, and i still think, when 100%, Clark is in the top 4 TE's in the league.

spiralism · 20-03-2012 07:11PM

davyjose wrote: »

Think Clark and Saturday are the big names though. They've played their whole careers with Manning, in his Offense, and i still think, when 100%, Clark is in the top 4 TE's in the league.

Fingers crossed we get them then. Saturday is visiting the Packers and Titans before us. Packers need a replacement for scott wells and titans could well make a good bid for him too, even though amano is pretty solid. Centre becomes a need if we dont land Saturday because Walton is crap. He won't cut it in this offence at all.

Phoenix Park · 20-03-2012 07:20PM

press conf has started

What would you do with Peyton Manning?

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