Escaped cop killer goes on the rampage assualts 3 more cops!

Robdude wrote: »

Wouldn't killing *any* public worker be seen as an attack on the institutions of the state? I don't see why one public worker is more vital to the state than others, to the extent that we would subclass the type of killing to reflect it.

And aren't there countless other professions that can be summarized as working to keep others safe?

It's just I've only heard of 'cop killers' and 'killers'. It seems to imply that killing cops is somehow different than killing anyone else; including other public workers and including other professions that work to keep others safe.

It just seems strange to me.

An attack on a Garda is an attack on the security of the whole society and deserves to be punished more severely. It is also the case that murders of Garda usually occur when they're trying to stop a crime, whereas murders of other people usually occur in other circumstances. And murders of people trying to prevent a crime arguably deserve a higher punishment.Imo.

Why don't we have a five strike and you are out policy. 20 years then.

Whatever about 3 crimes but if you commit 5 crimes then you don't deserve your freedom imo.

Deleted User wrote: »

What about 91 strikes?

91 strikes and off you go to an open prison.

Robdude wrote: »

One rich banker might generate millions in revenue and jobs for Ireland.

errr.....Really? Have you been living under a rock for the past few years?

Robdude wrote: »

What about members of the Irish military? Do they not protect our society?

Protect our society from what? When? Militant muslims in Iraqistan?

I think you might want to rethink your arguments.

irish-stew wrote: »

I know this is the third thread on this, but just read into todays Irish Times he was transfered to Loughlin house with release in 2015, after time already served and good behaviour.

Stick him in an empty sound proof room with a few PSNI and Gardai for a while, then chuck him in the Joy for the rest of his full sentence.

Obviously has no intention of remorse, or has something wrong with him if he thinks he can escape, run over the boarder, and then mess with the toughest force in the whole of the British Isles.

That who "good behaviour" bollocks is a joke. A sentence should mean the full term. Who gives a fcuk whether they behave or not? FFS.:mad: This country.:rolleyes:

Adolf Hipster wrote: »

The death penalty should never be brought in to Ireland.

Because?

wexie wrote: »

errr.....Really? Have you been living under a rock for the past few years?



Protect our society from what? When? Militant muslims in Iraqistan?

I think you might want to rethink your arguments.

Under which rock do you not have an effective income tax rate that approaches 51%? If the CEO of a financial company earns an income of two million euro, how much tax is collected? And what of the employees?

The company I work for is a private company that trades private money. It was started by a few rich guys. It now employs over 100 people in Ireland. Those 100 people in Ireland pay taxes on their income as well. They also live and work in Ireland. They contribute to the local economy.

How is that not of value? Certainly, in terms of euros - a rich man, particularly one who runs a company, is worth far more to our society than a poor one.

As for the Irish military - I don't see how you could accept that the Garda protects us, but the Irish military does not. We're not at war right now, and that's great; but that hasn't always been the case. Likewise, we still employ Garda when there isn't a crime actively happening. The military, even in non-war times, provides all sorts of services and benefits to our society (which is why we pay taxes to pay them).

Robdude wrote: »

Under which rock do you not have an effective income tax rate that approaches 51%? If the CEO of a financial company earns an income of two million euro, how much tax is collected? And what of the employees?

The company I work for is a private company that trades private money. It was started by a few rich guys. It now employs over 100 people in Ireland. Those 100 people in Ireland pay taxes on their income as well. They also live and work in Ireland. They contribute to the local economy.

How is that not of value? Certainly, in terms of euros - a rich man, particularly one who runs a company, is worth far more to our society than a poor one.

As for the Irish military - I don't see how you could accept that the Garda protects us, but the Irish military does not. We're not at war right now, and that's great; but that hasn't always been the case. Likewise, we still employ Garda when there isn't a crime actively happening. The military, even in non-war times, provides all sorts of services and benefits to our society (which is why we pay taxes to pay them).

Robdude wrote: »

Society is comprised of the people who belong to it. Any crime against a member of a society is an attack on the security of the whole society.

Rarely do we declare certain members of society more valuable than others. And if we are going to do that, there are plenty of ways of doing it besides their profession.

One rich banker might generate millions in revenue and jobs for Ireland. Should murdering him carry a heavier penalty than a Garda? Should the lives of people on disability carry less of a penalty because some would argue they contribute less to society? Should parents be seen as more valuable than those without children - aren't children required for the continuation of our society?

What about members of the Irish military? Do they not protect our society? Are they worth more or less than the Garda? And what about high-ranking Garda officials - shouldn't they be worth more than a new recruit?

What about professions like Doctors? One doctor might save many lives. How would you rank them compared to a Garda?

Do you really want to send the message 'If you become a member of the Garda you becoming *better* than everyone else?'

I just see this as a problematic road to go down.

'tis not every day you see someone contradicting themselves quite so spectacularly in consecutive posts.

Don't get me wrong I agree with your point (I think, it's hard to make out exactly what you mean what with all the contradicting going on) but your ability to argue your point is really rather poor and if I didn't know any better I'd say you've managed to confuse yourself rather effectively....

We'll just blame it on the drink I guess

cloptrop wrote: »

It says everywhere he was done for manslaughtering a police officer.
What exactly did he do though , dangerous driving or shooting him?

he drove into the guard :

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0721/mcloughling.html

wexie wrote: »

'tis not every day you see someone contradicting themselves quite so spectacularly in consecutive posts.

Don't get me wrong I agree with your point (I think, it's hard to make out exactly what you mean what with all the contradicting going on) but your ability to argue your point is really rather poor and if I didn't know any better I'd say you've managed to confuse yourself rather effectively....

We'll just blame it on the drink I guess

There is no contradiction, perhaps you've had too many to drink?

My argument is that the punishment for murder should be the same, regardless of whom the victim is. *I don't* believe that someone's value to society should be a factor.

How you measure someone's value is subjective. But there are objective measures we can look it (that some would argue relates to someone's value to society. For example, people are arguing that someone's profession determines their value and that the Garda are more valuable that say....Teachers). To illustrate the absurdity of this, I suggested several other objective measures we could use. So I said, *IN TERMS OF EURO* some members of society *ARE* worth more. That's certainly a true statement.

That's the four words immediately before the sentence you decided to bold.

I'm *NOT* claiming that the more euros someone contributes the more valuable they are. I only said some members of society contribute more in terms of euro. Again, I don't agree with the notion that murdering some people is worse than others. But I am asking people who feel that the life of a Garda is worth more than someone else's to explain why their criteria is more valid than my arbitrary example.

TL;DR
My argument might be wrong, but it is logically consistent.

The penalty for murder should be severe, but it should be the same, murder is murder, no person's life is worth more or less than the next person.

cloptrop wrote: »

Its to stop people killing or attacking the upholders of the law, it should be punished heavier .

So, by that logic....

Murdering corrupt police officer should carry a lessor sentence than murdering an honest police officer? Or possibly, should be encouraged?

What about the engineer that designs anti-theft technology in cars. Should that profession also get special treatment from the law? Isn't that engineer also working to prevent crime?

What about self-defence instructors?

What about people working in half-way houses?

What about solicitors?

What about compliance departments and the enforcement of regulations in various industries like healthcare and finance? Should an accountant that ensures companies properly report their earning deserve extra protection? What laws do you need to be upholding for your life to be more valuable?

I wrote software that was used to aid in the collection of taxes - a lot of logic was built into that software to ensure people were not breaking the law. A lot of money was reclaimed because of the software, in the form of back taxes. Did I help uphold the law enough, or is my life only worth the same as the unwashed masses that did not pursue a career in law enforcement.

What about off-duty Garda? Does this protection only extend to them while they are on duty? If no, what about retired Garda? Can I work as a police officer for one year?