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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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Comments

  • #4452
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    Get down to some basic maths here... how does 230,000 equate to over 14% of 1.8million??
    It's not, but it is over 14% of 1.6 million, which is the estimated number of liable households.

    Joe Higgins is basically pulling figures out of his arse, I would see no reason to believe his assertion that "many" of those registered are exempt.

    Like I pointed out earlier, it's probable that those who are exempt are the least likely to register.


  • #4453
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    These are registration figures not paid figures, so ill ask again prove your comment?????
    Go and have a look yourself at the reporting.

    Here's a bit of a head start.
    Irish Times wrote:
    So far just over 224,000 households have paid the charge - just 14% of the 1.6m households thought to be liable.
    Indo wrote:
    That's an increase of around 30,000 since last week, but it still means that over 85pc of households have still not paid. And the €22.9m raised is still far short of the €160m target.


  • #4454
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    dvpower wrote: »
    What campaign teams are you on about?

    That's a no then.


  • #4455
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    smash wrote: »
    Your constant ranting about this issue and scaremongering people to pay, at this stage reminds me of my mother telling me "Well if Johnny told you to put your hand in the fire, would you do it?"

    His or her constant scaremongering proves whoever it is def has a vested Interest in people paying the household tax, otherwise he/she wouldn,t be so active on threads.


  • #4456
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    smash wrote: »
    Your constant ranting about this ...
    Take a quick look at the top of the page .... OK. Now, slowly - have a read of the thread title.
    :cool:


  • #4457
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    dvpower wrote: »
    The estimates for liable households is 1.6m.


    If I ask angry, outraged people if they are angry and outraged, they'll tell me they are? Gotcha.

    Everyone has to register exempt or not so this is 1.8million

    No just people in general, my friend was on the luas and someone asked him out of the blue are you paying the household charge? he said no, her reply was fair play to ya!! Even people you would not expect a reaction from when I mentioned it to the cashier at the bank she laughed at how very few has paid it hardly no one she said and she aint paying either, all my neighbours are disgusted with it and are not paying either so to me compliance seems to be a great big 0 from where I am


  • #4458
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    donalg1 wrote: »
    So now you want people to get into arrears on their mortgage just to avoid paying €100. Absolutely no chance I would even consider that for 1 second.

    This charge is in now and wont be going away no matter how many or how few people pay it this year. Its here briefly to appease the EU / IMF and until the property tax is introduced, as for enforcement of it I dont think there will be a whole lot of that, same as the NPPR I would imagine. So its up to every individual that is liable for the household charge to decide what they want to do. The anti campaign is wasting their breath if their end goal is to have this charge scrapped cause that aint ever going to happen.

    With the NPPR for example some landlords pay it every year and some dont, some have paid €800 (€200 per year for four years) and some havent paid at all but they now owe thousands in penalties and late charges but sure they wont be chased for that either until they go to sell or transfer their house or the like.

    Call it the beauty or the flaw of self declaration.

    The level of anger with the turn-coat F.G. party is very strong now. Do not underestimate the power of the people. All this austerity and attacks on their own homes are highly motivational.


  • #4459
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Am Chile wrote: »
    Who some might say has a vested Interest with spicing up the numbers,A recent breakdown of the household charge numbers in galway, limerick, meath and donegal.
    So the civil servant and the Minister are 'spicing up' the numbers, but some anti household charge person on a website quoting numbers, some of which have been debunked on this thread, is right on the button.
    Is that about the size of it?

    ffs


  • #4460
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    dvpower wrote: »
    Take a quick look at the top of the page .... OK. Now, slowly - have a read of the thread title.
    :cool:

    Done that. No you go and read the thread again and actually answer people's questions seeing as how you have all the answers.


  • #4461
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    tayto lover wrote: »
    The level of anger with the turn-coat F.G. party is very strong now. Do not underestimate the power of the people. All this austerity and attacks on their own homes are highly motivational.

    They are so arrogant they think we will all jump up to pay it but im glad to see there are less and less sheeple in Ireland now than there was and the evidence is quite clear that people are done with been taken for fools and are standing up!!

    I mean asking us to sign a declaration (or should I say helping to implement) that will only have upwardly costs, they really think we are complete fools while they give each other payrises and claim expenses except for 1 labour TD.


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  • #4462
    golfwallah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    smash wrote: »
    How do you define what type of person a householder is? :confused:

    They are home owners, who have either paid for their property or are in the process of so doing.

    Generally these are people who work for a living and have a stake in the community and don't want to destroy it.

    Unfortunately, some bought property recently and are now faced with negative equity.

    According to some commentators this was partly caused by US President George Bush, who wanted to increase the number of house owners and used deregulation of the finance sector to make loans more readily available (to many, whom it later turned out couldn't afford them long term). Easy access to credit lead to the property bubble in the USA and many other countries.

    That little social experiment, to increase the numbers with a property stake, didn't quite work out as planned, so we're all paying the price for that now in the form of reduced public services and higher taxes.

    Haven't heard about these people rioting in the states or anywhere else yet, apart from Greece.

    But let's not go there.


  • #4463
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    golfwallah wrote: »
    They are home owners, who have either paid for their property or are in the process of so doing.

    Generally these are people who work for a living and have a stake in the community and don't want to destroy it.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with paying a household charge.


  • #4464
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    They are so arrogant they think we will all jump up to pay it but im glad to see there are less and less sheeple in Ireland now than there was and the evidence is quite clear that people are done with been taken for fools and are standing up!!
    Do you not think it's just a little bit odd that on the one hand you have 85% of people not registering to pay, but on the other hand any rallies, meetings or "helplines" that have been set up to oppose this tax have virtually no participants?

    It's almost like people aren't really that angry about it and are instead waiting to see what happens...

    The joke of course is that the time to do anything about it has long passed. If you managed to get 150,000 marching on Leinster house in early January, they may have thought twice about it. In reality, any rally which had 150 participants was doing well, so the policitians rightly ignored them and the plans are already in motion. The time to "stand up" has passed.


  • #4465
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    seamus wrote: »
    It's almost like people aren't really that angry about it and are instead waiting to see what happens...

    Well this is an introductory off the government are doing. Like UPC, there is a discount when you sign up, but next year it goes up to the full price.


  • #4466
    golfwallah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    Am Chile wrote: »
    His or her constant scaremongering proves whoever it is def has a vested Interest in people paying the household tax, otherwise he/she wouldn,t be so active on threads.

    People paying the household tax have a vested Interest in preventing this country becoming an economic basket case like Greece.

    And what's wrong with that?

    I'd be more concerned about the vested interest of those advocating that people break the law by not paying household charges as raised through the legitimate democratic process.


  • #4467
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Once individual households are singled out of the wont pay herd, and get a demand for the charge in the post, then we will see how brave they are in refusing to pay.


  • #4468
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    seamus wrote: »
    Do you not think it's just a little bit odd that on the one hand you have 85% of people not registering to pay, but on the other hand any rallies, meetings or "helplines" that have been set up to oppose this tax have virtually no participants?

    It's almost like people aren't really that angry about it and are instead waiting to see what happens...

    The joke of course is that the time to do anything about it has long passed. If you managed to get 150,000 marching on Leinster house in early January, they may have thought twice about it. In reality, any rally which had 150 participants was doing well, so the policitians rightly ignored them and the plans are already in motion. The time to "stand up" has passed.

    No rallies? no helpline?
    A new hotline has been launched today, offering advice to people who are opposed to the new €100 household charge.

    The number is 1890 98 98 00

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/anti-household-charge-hotline-number-announced-535455.html

    As for the no rallies part.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77335995&postcount=3485

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77362185&postcount=3536

    As for the some people not attending rallies part.

    There,s also a signifigant number of people who won,t be paying the household tax, one poster on here who has states not paying has stated this.
    I have no intention of marching or protesting and there are many like me ...... we are just not going to pay.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77287412&postcount=3346

    A good few friends/relatives of mine aren,t paying, would be of like mind about protests/rallies.


  • #4469
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    seamus wrote: »
    Do you not think it's just a little bit odd that on the one hand you have 85% of people not registering to pay, but on the other hand any rallies, meetings or "helplines" that have been set up to oppose this tax have virtually no participants?

    It's almost like people aren't really that angry about it and are instead waiting to see what happens...

    The joke of course is that the time to do anything about it has long passed. If you managed to get 150,000 marching on Leinster house in early January, they may have thought twice about it. In reality, any rally which had 150 participants was doing well, so the policitians rightly ignored them and the plans are already in motion. The time to "stand up" has passed    .


    Bollox Seamus.

    The time to really stand up is only just approaching, (probably too quickly for the pro brigade).
    The 31st of this month its when things will get really messed up for the current shower of cowardly morons we have in Govt.

    They seem to be desperate at this stage with threats of tracking us down through utility bills, fines, and whatever else they can think to scare us into paying off debts that aren't ours.
    Desperation and unpredictability is not a good trait for any govt to have, and when the first wave of whatever repercussions for non payers start to get publicised, expect to see a wave of revolt from the Irish people never seen before in the history of this state.

    This current Govt are going to seal their own fate, purely through arrogance and unwillingness to take the public seriously.

    I certainly wouldn't be betting 'my house' on them being in power for much longer.

    And good riddance IMO.

    Btw, i'm exempt from this charge, but 'the onus is on me to register still'
    Lol, yeah right.......
    I'll willingly sign up to be shafted..... Its in my nature.


  • #4470
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    They are so arrogant they think we will all jump up to pay it but im glad to see there are less and less sheeple in Ireland now than there was and the evidence is quite clear that people are done with been taken for fools and are standing up!!

    I mean asking us to sign a declaration (or should I say helping to implement) that will only have upwardly costs, they really think we are complete fools while they give each other payrises and claim expenses except for 1 labour TD.

    Yes indeed. Some people would like us to believe that we are partly responsible for the problem. That we "creamed" it in the so-called good times.
    I did not borrow anymore than I needed and could pay back. I owe nothing to anybody.
    There are thousands of empty or unfinished houses all around the country. These were the product of great big banking loans to greedy property developers and speculators who were aided and abetted by Fianna Fail. The Fine Gael/Labour crowd just sat on their hands and allowed it to continue. They are just as guilty.
    The crash came and the working class are left to pay for the mess.
    Then we have the deficit between what we spend and what we take in in taxes. The people at the top again creamed it, Politicians, Bankers, top Civil Servants. The nurses, garda, firemen were at the bottom of the pile in the Public Service but when the lay-offs or early retirements were forced into the picture very few of the top people left and remained on big wages. The children, elderly or crime victims suffer but not the big boys who have armed gardai and private medical insurance. Some Govt people even got rises, advisers etc, new people were appointed to the Seanad to represent the Fine Gael views. Cronyism is again rife in the country, F.G. went back on their word again. Then they promised to re-negotiate the I.M.F. loans but are happier having their hair tossed by the like of Sarcozy or Angela and being regarded as being the "best boys in the class". They continually return home empty-handed. meanwhile not one Banker, Builder or Speculator has been in court, some were actually given jobs in N.A.M.A. at 200k a year. You couldn't make it up.
    Now they are trying their dirty tricks to make us pay a Property Tax but the Irish people will see these attacks on their homes as the last straw. I certainly do and I am refusing to pay. I don't even have to leave my armchair to protest. Enough is enough.


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  • #4471
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Bollox Seamus.

    The time to really stand up is only just approaching, (probably too quickly for the pro brigade).
    The 31st of this month its when things will get really messed up for the current shower of cowardly morons we have in Govt.

    They seem to be desperate at this stage with threats of tracking us down through utility bills, fines, and whatever else they can think to scare us into paying off debts that aren't ours.
    Desperation and unpredictability is not a good trait for any govt to have, and when the first wave of whatever repercussions for non payers start to get publicised, expect to see a wave of revolt from the Irish people never seen before in the history of this state.

    This current Govt are going to seal their own fate, purely through arrogance and unwillingness to take the public seriously.

    I certainly wouldn't be betting 'my house' on them being in power for much longer.

    And good riddance IMO.

    To my knowledge different groups, the anti household tax group, groups against cuts in services, march 31th being the fine gael annual conference are gonna march and descend on it, everyone here whos against the household tax should def attend that march as many as possible from each town/county come out march 31st and let the blueshirts what we think of their household tax.


  • #4472
    golfwallah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    smash wrote: »
    This has absolutely nothing to do with paying a household charge.

    Back to the original point that householders aren't the type to engage in mass campaigns about issues like this.

    But, it's a free country, so feel free to prove me wrong by organising your mass campaign, if that's what you want!


  • #4473
    RiseToTheTop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭RiseToTheTop


    The funny thing is before this bill was even put in it was stipulated ex TD's wouldn't have to pay a cent of it.

    99% certain that is the case.


  • #4474
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Am Chile wrote: »
    No rallies? no helpline?
    Read my post again. I'm aware there have been rallies and a helpline. The amount of people who've attended the rallies and used the helpline is minimal, especially considering the assertions that "most" people won't pay.
    Ghandee wrote: »
    The time to really stand up is only just approaching, (probably too quickly for the pro brigade).
    The time to stand up is when something can be done about it. Striking while the iron is hot and all that. It's too late.
    Desperation and unpredictability is not a good trait for any govt to have, and when the first wave of whatever repercussions for non payers start to get publicised, expect to see a wave of revolt from the Irish people never seen before in the history of this state.
    I think you're overestimating the anti-payment sentiment. IMO the majority of non-payment can be chalked down to plain old leaving it till the last minute and the "wait and see" brigade. Most people don't pay things until the last minute. I would be very surprised in fact if we'd seen huge payment rates at this stage.

    I would however be surprised if 50% of households haven't paid up by the end of May, and 75% by the end of the year.


  • #4475
    golfwallah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    RiseToTheTop wrote: »
    The funny thing is before this bill was even put in it was stipulated ex TD's wouldn't have to pay a cent of it.

    99% certain that is the case.

    This is pure rubbish!

    Exemptions include:
    "Residential property vested in a Minister of the Government or the Health Service Executive".

    There's no mention of ex TDs - see link attached, which contains all details, including exemptions:
    https://www.householdcharge.ie/Faq.aspx#fk46


  • #4476
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    golfwallah wrote: »
    Back to the original point that householders aren't the type to engage in mass campaigns about issues like this.

    But, it's a free country, so feel free to prove me wrong by organising your mass campaign, if that's what you want!
    House owners are the ones who are currently organising protests and campaigns!


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  • #4477
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    RiseToTheTop wrote: »
    The funny thing is before this bill was even put in it was stipulated ex TD's wouldn't have to pay a cent of it.

    99% certain that is the case.
    Link for this outrageous claim?


  • #4478
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    seamus wrote: »
    Read my post again. I'm aware there have been rallies and a helpline. The amount of people who've attended the rallies and used the helpline is minimal, especially considering the assertions that "most" people won't pay.
    The time to stand up is when something can be done about it. Striking while the iron is hot and all that. It's too late.
    I think you're overestimating the anti-payment sentiment. IMO the majority of non-payment can be chalked down to plain old leaving it till the last minute and the "wait and see" brigade. Most people don't pay things until the last minute. I would be very surprised in fact if we'd seen huge payment rates at this stage.

    I would however be surprised if 50% of households haven't paid up by the end of May, and 75% by the end of the year.

    Some said that at the start of february with low numbers registered then, wait until the end of february there shall be higher numbers registered the end of the month, while there might of been more numbers registered, it was still nowhere near what they actually needed,with 1.6 million currently unregistered those feeling undecided will have more confidence not to register.


  • #4479
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Am Chile wrote: »
    Some said that at the start of february with low numbers registered then, wait until the end of february there shall be higher numbers registered the end of the month, while there might of been more numbers registered, it was still nowhere near what they actually needed,with 1.6 million currently unregistered those feeling undecided will have more confidence not to register.

    It's instructive to look at how late most people were in signing up for SSIA schemes - free money. No doubt many people will be late with the Household Charge payments, and there will be the usual 11th hour mad dash between procrastinators and those who begrudge paying the thing before the very final days/hours. It's the default Irish way with these things - more than any groundswell of opposition.


  • #4480
    golfwallah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    smash wrote: »
    House owners are the ones who are currently organising protests and campaigns!

    Oh, so we've moved from "mass campaigns" to mere "protests and campaigns" - that's OK - at long last we agree on something.;)

    There was nothing "mass" about the "anti-household tax protest march" I witnessed outside the Dail on 29th February last.

    They numbered in the hundreds ...... but maybe that's "mass" by your standards.

    Come back when you have 10s of thousands ...... although there won't be enough room for pints, tea and sandwiches in Buswell's Hotel after the "mass" march, if ever you do.:)


  • #4481
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    alastair wrote: »
    It's instructive to look at how late most people were in signing up for SSIA schemes - free money. No doubt many people will be late with the Household Charge payments, and there will be the usual 11th hour mad dash between procrastinators and those who begrudge paying the thing before the very final days/hours. It's the default Irish way with these things - more than any groundswell of opposition.

    Currently more then 1.5 million unregistered and unpaid, sixteen days left, for the other 1.5 million to register works out at around 100.000 per day to register and pay.

    It paints an unbelievable picture of aroiund 100.000 people a day logging on, filling out the online form, then processing a payment of 100 Euro from their pocket.

    Broken down in that way........ it seems highly improbable.

    This is not U2 tickets we are talking about here.


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  • #4482
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    @golfwallah: I would consider mass non payment as a mass protests would you not?


  • #4483
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Am Chile wrote: »
    Currently more then 1.5 million unregistered and unpaid, sixteen days left, for the other 1.5 million to register works out at around 100.000 per day to register and pay.

    It paints an unbelievable picture of aroiund 100.000 people a day logging on, filling out the online form, then processing a payment of 100 Euro from their pocket.

    Broken down in that way........ it seems highly improbable.

    This is not U2 tickets we are talking about here.

    What seems improbable? That the majority of the 85% will end up paying their Household Charge, with or without a fine attached? Not at all.


  • #4484
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    smash wrote: »
    @golfwallah: I would consider mass non payment as a mass protests would you not?
    The due date isn't until the end of the month and the recent opinion poll shows a majority are intending to pay.


  • #4485
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    golfwallah wrote: »
    Oh, so we've moved from "mass campaigns" to mere "protests and campaigns" - that's OK - at long last we agree on something.;)

    There was nothing "mass" about the "anti-household tax protest march" I witnessed outside the Dail on 29th February last.

    They numbered in the hundreds ...... but maybe that's "mass" by your standards.

    Come back when you have 10s of thousands ...... although there won't be enough room for pints, tea and sandwiches in Buswell's Hotel after the "mass" march, if ever you do.:)

    Were you there spying for your master ?
    I would not attend an anti household tax march but i am still not paying. I know many others in the same boat too.


  • #4486
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    dvpower wrote: »
    The due date isn't until the end of the month and the recent opinion poll shows a majority are intending to pay.

    Are you ever going to enter a political thread and not side with the current government and participate in scaremongering and throwing out opinion poll statements?

    And my question wasn't an open one, it was directed at a specific user. Not you.


  • #4487
    Buford Tannen
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭Buford Tannen


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    Everyone has to register exempt or not so this is 1.8million

    No just people in general, my friend was on the luas and someone asked him out of the blue are you paying the household charge? he said no, her reply was fair play to ya!! Even people you would not expect a reaction from when I mentioned it to the cashier at the bank she laughed at how very few has paid it hardly no one she said and she aint paying either, all my neighbours are disgusted with it and are not paying either so to me compliance seems to be a great big 0 from where I am

    I only know two people who say that they will pay,one is an ex PS employee who is worried about his pension being cut and the other is a school teacher due a large increment this year.

    Is there a similar pattern here.Do the majority of those that have paid or say that they will pay work for the state?


  • #4488
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Buford Tannen wrote: »
    I only know two people who say that they will pay,one is an ex PS employee who is worried about his pension being cut and the other is a school teacher due a large increment this year.

    Is there a similar pattern here.Do the majority of those that have paid or say that they will pay work for the state?

    I've paid the charge and it's had nothing to do with fear of pensions being tinkered with, or any other fears tbh. Property tax is a sensible component of a sustainable future tax base, and (if the govt get the recipe right) a fair and equitable one. If revenues don't come from here, then where makes up the difference?


  • #4489
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    Buford Tannen wrote: »
    I only know two people who say that they will pay,one is an ex PS employee who is worried about his pension being cut and the other is a school teacher due a large increment this year.

    Is there a similar pattern here.Do the majority of those that have paid or say that they will pay work for the state?

    Good observation in your post, from my experience canvassing only a small people I spoke to Intend to pay,some cases for example one was a maths teacher, the other a retired esb worker, a relative of a former fianna fail counciler.


  • #4490
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    alastair wrote: »
    I've paid the charge and it's had nothing to do with fear of pensions being tinkered with, or any other fears tbh. Property tax is a sensible component of a sustainable future tax base, and (if the govt get the recipe right) a fair and equitable one. If revenues don't come from here, then where makes up the difference?

    From this post you paid the household charge because by the sounds of this post it sound like you have a vested Interest in it, I have yet to meet anyone who agrees with the double taxation of stamp duty combined with property tax.


  • #4491
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Am Chile wrote: »
    From this post you paid the household charge because by the sounds of this post it sound like you have a vested Interest in it, I have yet to meet anyone who agrees with the double taxation of stamp duty combined with property tax.

    Nice conspiracy theory, but no. Maybe you need to get out more?


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  • #4492
    golfwallah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    smash wrote: »
    @golfwallah: I would consider mass non payment as a mass protests would you not?

    "Mass non payment" - the jury is out on that one, as we won't know how many haven't paid for some time yet.

    And a lot of people who are shouting protest now, will eventually pay.

    Look - I detest this tax and the reckless behaviour of people who got us into this mess as much as you do - just, that I think the rule of law and the democratic process are much more important.

    According to Churchill: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried".

    A sense of perspective is needed here. And bad and all as things seem to be here - I'm just grateful we live in a democracy and can debate issues like household charges publicly - unlike the unfortunates living in places like Syria.


  • #4493
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,807 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alastair wrote: »
    I've paid the charge and it's had nothing to do with fear of pensions being tinkered with, or any other fears tbh. Property tax is a sensible component of a sustainable future tax base, and (if the govt get the recipe right) a fair and equitable one. If revenues don't come from here, then where makes up the difference?

    I would have the opposite view.
    I think this is an attack on home owners, many of whom are in negative equity. Your home is YOUR home and there should not be a tax on it. It is not right and I don't care whether other countries have it or not.
    They can raise taxes some other way.


  • #4494
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I would have the opposite view.
    I think this is an attack on home owners, many of whom are in negative equity. Your home is YOUR home and there should not be a tax on it. It is not right and I don't care whether other countries have it or not.
    They can raise taxes some other way.

    Such as?

    Your car is YOUR own too - and yet there's tax liable on it's use on the public highways, fuel, the licence to drive it, the regular roadworthyness test, etc, etc. Your house remains your own, regardless of your obligation to pay property tax (which as you concede, is the norm internationally).

    Negative equity is a red herring btw - you still pay motor tax even when depreciation has reduced the value of your car to a fraction of what you paid. The future (tiered) household charge will be on the basis of market value - not what you paid originally.


  • #4495
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    smash wrote: »
    And my question wasn't an open one, it was directed at a specific user. Not you.
    Use the PM feature for private correspondence or don't post on a public forum.


  • #4496
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    smash wrote: »
    Done that. No you go and read the thread again and actually answer people's questions seeing as how you have all the answers.

    That won't happen, when dv gets stumped the old passive/aggressive insults start flying!


  • #4497
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    dvpower wrote: »
    smash wrote: »
    And my question wasn't an open one, it was directed at a specific user. Not you.
    Use the PM feature for private correspondence or don't post on a public forum.
    Or you know, just don't reply to posts that were directed at a particular individual who wasn't you.


  • #4498
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Am Chile wrote: »
    Good observation in your post, from my experience canvassing only a small people I spoke to Intend to pay,some cases for example one was a maths teacher, the other a retired esb worker, a relative of a former fianna fail counciler.

    I've noticed that myself, my wife's sister and her husband, both PS employees have paid but her other sister and her husband, private sector, will not.
    I wonder are PS employees living in fear??
    I'm self-employed and won't be paying either.


  • #4499
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    dvpower wrote: »
    Use the PM feature for private correspondence or don't post on a public forum.

    Now, dv, your not a moderator yet!!;)


  • #4500
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    I'm self-employed and won't be paying either.

    Maybe not now, but I'm betting time will tell another story.


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  • #4501
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    smash wrote: »
    Or you know, just don't reply to posts that were directed at a particular individual who wasn't you.
    No. I think I'll continue to reply to any post I see fit.
    If you don't want to see my posts, there is an ignore feature.


This discussion has been closed.
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