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Scrap Rent Allowance

24

Comments

  • #32
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    uberalles wrote: »
    Lots of other countries give you help for a few months then 0. It's a good incentive to get a job and become independent or Fcuk off somewhere else. I'm particularly talking about whole families who have never worked even during the boom.

    This cradle to grave welfare wonderland is a joke.

    You're going to be chucked out of Sinn Fein with heretical ideas like that! :)


  • #33
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Owen_S wrote: »
    Stop working
    Acquire Rent Allowance
    ????
    Profit
    The crazy thing is that many people are better off or at least as well of if they don't bother working.

    Nuts, I know. :(


  • #34
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    witnessmenow wrote: »
    A person without a job will get no money if living at home (well means tested), but gets the dole and rent allowance if they moves out. Why not give them some money while at home so they dont have to move out!?

    Nope, you wont get RA unless you've rented for 6 months. I'd say it was aimed at your post and rightly so!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #35
    previous user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭previous user


    council dwelling scum.


  • #36
    Jesus Shaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    I get rent allowance
    ahahahahahahahahaha

    SUCKERS!


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  • #37
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    darokane wrote: »
    I get rent allowance
    ahahahahahahahahaha

    SUCKERS!

    Are you making millions off the sub-letting?;):D


  • #38
    Jesus Shaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    micropig wrote: »
    Are you making millions off the sub-letting?;):D

    Multi-millions!


  • #39
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    I think they should scarp everything that doesn't benefit me.


  • #40
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    Full article, as OP only posted the part that suited his ire.

    Important part is bolded, once again landlords are being *****, once again tenants are being blamed for landlords actions and are the ones being called scum.

    Fair play OP, I'd say your parents own properties.
    Landlords face cuts in rent of up to €270 in some parts of the country as reductions in welfare rent allowances take effect.
    While some of those in receipt of these allowances face eviction as landlords refuse to reduce the rent to the new lower thresholds.
    In 2011 the Government paid €500m in rent to landlords for 94,000 social welfare tenants living in private apartments and houses.
    The Department of Social Protection carried out a review of rents and found the State was paying well in excess of market value in many parts of the country. Minister Joan Burton says she's reducing the level of rent she's prepared to pay to private landlords in the hope of saving €22m this year.
    The level of cuts varies across the country from less than €20 in some areas to €270 a month in others.
    Landlords say the reduction in rent supplement is too much and will drive down rental rates and subsequently house prices.
    Margaret McCormick from the Irish Property Owners' Association said some landlords will not be able to accommodate the reduced rates and will have to terminate their tenancy agreements.
    She said others would try to accommodate their tenants if possible. However she said it was deeply unfair and unreasonable that the Government was trying to set market rental rates by reducing rental supplements.
    It is not just the reduction in rent supplement payments that is troubling tenants. They also now have to make an increased personal contribution €30 for single people, €35 for a couple.
    The Irish National Organisation of the Unemployed said it had received a significant number of telephone calls from concerned recipients of rental allowances.
    Brid O'Brien of the INOU said she felt many social welfare recipients would find themselves struggling to hold onto their accommodation as a result of the cuts. She said much of the wriggle room that both tenants and landlords had been using in recent years was gone now. She said tenants could not top-up rental allowances any further, and many landlords could not afford to reduce rents any further.
    The range of cuts vary, but taking the example of a one or two parent family with two children.
    In Cork, the new maximum rent supplement is €715 a month...according to figures from the latest Daft.ie rental reporter, the average rent for a two-bedroom property in Cork city is €775 Euro .
    In Galway, the maximum rent supplement is €700, average rent is €728.
    In Waterford, the allowance is €540, average rent is €538
    In Dublin Fingal the family's allowance has been cut from €1000 a month to €825, the average rent for a two bedroom property in the region ranges from €788 to €971 a month.
    For the rest of Dublin, the allowance is down from €1050 a month for a family with two children to €925.
    Average two bedroom rents range from €844-€1329 a month.


  • #41
    fat__tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 587 ✭✭✭fat__tony


    I hear ya OP, bloody dole scum, they should be all rounded up and shot!


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  • #42
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    Full article, as OP only posted the part that suited his ire.

    Important part is bolded, once again landlords are being *****, once again tenants are being blamed for landlords actions and are the ones being called scum.

    Fair play OP, I'd say your parents own properties.

    While some of those in receipt of these allowances face eviction as landlords refuse to reduce the rent to the new lower thresholds.


    The bit you bolded


    Is there not a surplus of empty houses in Ireland? If some landlords won't lower the rent, you'll find some who will


  • #43
    Jesus Shaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    Full article, as OP only posted the part that suited his ire.

    Important part is bolded, once again landlords are being *****, once again

    In fairness if tenants are in contracts they don't have too, i'm not siding with landlords here but tenents are being forced to break contracts and maybe onto the streets by the manner in which these cuts were brought in.
    As i've said previously rent limits should be set for both private and RA receiving tenants. that would make it fair for everyone


  • #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    K-9 wrote: »

    It is also a big player in forcing rents down when it gets cut, which it has again. Bet you'll see a drop in rents as landlords have to adjust for the drop, so its all good, even for you.

    Very, very srange reasoning here. You're saying that cutting rent allowance forces rent down, when in actual fact cutting rent allowance simply brings rent prices closer to what they would be if it wasn't for the landlord dole keeping them up artificially.

    If I may use an analogy,

    "Drink driving is good, because whenever the Guards implement an anti drink driving campaign it brings road deaths down."

    Can you see the problem with this line of reasoning now?


  • #45
    dirtyden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭dirtyden


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Very, very srange reasoning here. You're saying that cutting rent allowance forces rent down, when in actual fact cutting rent allowance simply brings rent prices closer to what they would be if it wasn't for the landlord dole keeping them up artificially.

    If I may use an analogy,

    "Drink driving is good, because whenever the Guards implement an anti drink driving campaign it brings road deaths down."

    Can you see the problem with this line of reasoning now?

    What are you on about?

    The original reasoning was logical. Yours makes no sense.


  • #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    dirtyden wrote: »
    What are you on about?

    The original reasoning was logical. Yours makes no sense.

    Ok, I'll use another analogy. Let's say bread was too expensive and you wanted the government to help less well off people pay for their sliced pan. If the government were to introduce a "bread allowance" that they paid to bread producers on behalf of those who were deemed to be unable to pay for bread on their own, it would help these people afford bread.

    Problem solved right?

    Wrong.

    This is where the market economy comes in to completley undo your good work, and then some.

    Bread producers now realise that they can charge more for their product because even if it is too expensive for people to afford, the government will help them out. The price of bread skyrockets. Now the bread allowance people are once again struggling to buy their sliced pan and everyone else buying bread is also being ripped off due to the government artificially inflating the bread market.

    If in this situation the government were to partially undo the damage by reducing the bread allowance would you praise them for driving the price of bread down?

    No, you'd say they shouldn't have driven it up in the first place.

    Make no mistake about it, rent allowance has very little to do with helping the poor afford homes, and a lot more to do with lining the pockets of the buy to let landlords that inflated Fianna Fáil's friend's property bubble.


  • #47
    Jesus Shaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ok, I'll use another analogy. Let's say bread was too expensive and you wanted the government to help less well off people pay for their sliced pan. If the government were to introduce a "bread allowance" that they paid to bread producers on behalf of those who were deemed to be unable to pay for bread on their own, it would help these people afford bread.

    Problem solved right?

    Wrong.

    This is where the market economy comes in to completley undo your good work, and then some.

    Bread producers now realise that they can charge more for their product because even if it is too expensive for people to afford, the government will help them out. The price of bread skyrockets.

    wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong
    Your argument is only what might happen, you have no proof
    It didn't happen in the 80's/90's when they were giving out butter vouchers so what makes this any different.
    Don't get me wrong, everyones entitled to an opinion


  • #48
    Born to Die
    Closed Accounts Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Born to Die


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ok, I'll use another analogy. Let's say bread was too expensive and you wanted the government help less well off people pay for their sliced pan. If the government were to introduce a "bread allowance" that they paid to bread producers on behalf of those who were deemed to be unable to pay for bread on their own, it would help these people afford bread.

    Problem solved right?

    Wrong.

    This is where the market economy comes in to completley undo your good work, and then some.

    Bread producers now realise that they can charge more for their product because even if it is too expensive for people to afford, the government will help them out. The price of bread skyrockets. Now the bread allowance people are once again struggling to buy their sliced pan and everyone else buying bread is also being ripped off due to the government artificially inflating the bread market.

    If in this situation the government were to partially undo the damage by reducing the bread allowance would you praise them for driving the price of bread down?

    No, you'd say they shouldn't have driven it up in the first place.

    Make no mistake about it, rent allowance has very little to do with helping the poor afford homes, and a lot more to do with lining the pockets of the buy to let landlords that inflated Fianna Fáil's friend's property bubble.

    You are correct but until a fair way of keeping people off the streets when they lose their income through no fault of their own in place then rent allowance must remain. I say this as a person who for 20 years worked and now find myself unemployed with a mortgage I am worried I won't be able to pay. I have 10 years of mortgage payments made on time every time but now I face the prospect of losing my home if I can't find a new job.

    I may need rent allowance or some other means in the future to keep me off the streets.


  • #49
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,119 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    I'm so confused now.
    I thought rent supplement was just a state subsidy for landlords to maintain their capital investment and further leverage upon it.


  • #50
    Jesus Shaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    snubbleste wrote: »
    I'm so confused now.
    I thought rent supplement was just a state subsidy for landlords to maintain their capital investment and further leverage upon it.

    are you an idiot?


  • #51
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,119 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    darokane wrote: »
    are you an idiot?
    :cool:


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  • #52
    Chain_reaction
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Chain_reaction


    darokane wrote: »
    are you an idiot?

    Why are they an idiot?

    I've heard a good few people say that...


  • #53
    Jesus Shaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    Chain_reaction wrote: »
    Why are they an idiot?

    I've heard a good few people say that...

    Just because you heard it doesn't make it true:rolleyes:
    private renters will always be bitter about RA, that's when these idiotic statements appear.


  • #54
    previous user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭previous user


    I'd apply for rent allowance only you have to fill out a sh*t load of forms.


  • #55
    Chain_reaction
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Chain_reaction


    darokane wrote: »
    Just because you heard it doesn't make it true:rolleyes:
    private renters will always be bitter about RA, that's when these idiotic statements appear.



    I presume you've never heard it referred to as the landlords dole either so. No need to call any one an idiot over it though.

    I didn't call you an idiot because you'd never heard it...



    Not bitter per say. Only when RA tenants live in nicer houses than I do.. Which I have seen a lot of but then again theres an AWFUL lot of RA tenants living in complete **** holes with horrors for landlords.


  • #56
    dirtyden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭dirtyden


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ok, I'll use another analogy. Let's say bread was too expensive and you wanted the government to help less well off people pay for their sliced pan. If the government were to introduce a "bread allowance" that they paid to bread producers on behalf of those who were deemed to be unable to pay for bread on their own, it would help these people afford bread.

    Problem solved right?

    Wrong.

    This is where the market economy comes in to completley undo your good work, and then some.

    Bread producers now realise that they can charge more for their product because even if it is too expensive for people to afford, the government will help them out. The price of bread skyrockets. Now the bread allowance people are once again struggling to buy their sliced pan and everyone else buying bread is also being ripped off due to the government artificially inflating the bread market.

    If in this situation the government were to partially undo the damage by reducing the bread allowance would you praise them for driving the price of bread down?

    No, you'd say they shouldn't have driven it up in the first place.

    Make no mistake about it, rent allowance has very little to do with helping the poor afford homes, and a lot more to do with lining the pockets of the buy to let landlords that inflated Fianna Fáil's friend's property bubble.

    Thanks for the clarification. I would have assumed that the rates set for rent allowance are based upon current market rates (rather than set by the unholy cabal of politicians and landlords that you suggest), which is why they are now coming down? I do not think landlords should take below the market rate just because the state is paying. I would have thought high rents were more of a result of high property prices rather than as you suggest a conspiracy beween private landlords and fianna fail but maye I am being naive.

    If my taxes pay to give a family the dignity of their own home I am relatively ok with that, although I do think more social housing is a better alternative to private landlords.


  • #57
    Jesus Shaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    Chain_reaction wrote: »
    I presume you've never heard it referred to as the landlords dole either so. No need to call any one an idiot over it though.

    I didn't call you an idiot because you'd never heard it...

    I've heard of it alright, and it all comes from bitter private tenants, It does not make it true, also i never called anyone an idiot, I did ask.


  • #58
    Joko
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭Joko


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    Full article, as OP only posted the part that suited his ire.

    Important part is bolded, once again landlords are being *****, once again tenants are being blamed for landlords actions and are the ones being called scum.

    Fair play OP, I'd say your parents own properties.

    I didn't post the whole article because most of it was irrelevant to the point I was making and also boards.ie new posting policy forbids it:
    2) copy and pasting a full piece of an article from a newspaper or blog etc will not be allowed. You may copy a paragraph of the piece and must provide a link to the source under what we hope will be seen as a common sense and fair use approach.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77390771&postcount=1

    Besides what you highlighted has nothing to do with this topic.

    Logical Fallacy wrote: »

    Fair play OP, I'd say your parents own properties.

    They own their own house. They don't own investment properties. And if they did own investment properties they would want rent supplement to be as high as possible to ensure the rental market is as overvalued as it is. Your remark shows you failed to grasp my OP.


  • #59
    stargazer 68
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭stargazer 68


    The current RA for a 2 bed in my area is 875 (max). The current going rate for a 2 bed in my area is approx 900-950. The majority of these places have 'no rent allowance' accepted - including the ones that overlook the travellers camp near Darndale!!


  • #60
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    mmmmm.....Bread:D


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  • #61
    Joko
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭Joko


    Dovies wrote: »
    The current RA for a 2 bed in my area is 875 (max). The current going rate for a 2 bed in my area is approx 900-950. The majority of these places have 'no rent allowance' accepted - including the ones that overlook the travellers camp near Darndale!!

    Yes but no property will go below 875euro for rent. And why should they, the government has set the floor of the market. They are distorting competition with this subsidy.


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