Alcoholism in your family?

MyKeyG · 13-03-2012 03:55AM

Babybuff wrote: »

alcholism is alcohol dependancy.

No it is not! A dependency is when alcohol is used to treat a problem alcoholism IS the problem. Ask any psychologist and they will tell you that exact same thing. I know because it's what I was told by a psychologist and senior psychiatrist.

Babybuff · 13-03-2012 03:57AM

MyKeyG wrote: »

No it is not! A dependency is when alcohol is used to treat a problem alcoholism IS the problem. Ask any psychologist and they will tell you that exact same thing. I know because it's what I was told by a psychologist and senior psychiatrist.

eh..no.

MyKeyG · 13-03-2012 03:57AM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

What exactly is a 'biological addiction'?

Google it.

K-9 · 13-03-2012 03:58AM

MyKeyG wrote: »

But there is a difference that's all I'm saying. A person with alcohol dependency can be trained to adopt a responsible attitude towards alcohol whereas those suffering from alcoholism can not.

Tbh, I don't see why you'd want to control a dependency. Kind of reminds me of cigarettes, I'll cut down to a couple a day.

Even if I did that, the damn cigarettes still control me!

MyKeyG · 13-03-2012 03:58AM

Babybuff wrote: »

eh..no.

My but you're very articulate. You almost have me convinced:rolleyes:

MyKeyG · 13-03-2012 04:00AM

K-9 wrote: »

Tbh, I don't see why you'd control a dependency. Kind of reminds me of cigarettes, I'll cut down and eventually go off them, doesn't seem to work!

So you don't see why somebody might want to go from heavy drinking to moderate drinking?

Chuck Stone · 13-03-2012 04:03AM

MyKeyG wrote: »

Google it.

There's no such thing as a biological addiction.

Babybuff · 13-03-2012 04:03AM

MyKeyG wrote: »

My but you're very articulate. You almost have me convinced:rolleyes:

In your terms then alcoholism is a result of alcohol dependency. Where do you draw the line? The question is does alcoholism run in families but this merely states that at some point or another an alcohol dependant person will eventually become biologically addicted to alcohol. That's not a condition someone is born with.

Helix · 13-03-2012 04:06AM

irish people have a very different definition of alcoholism to many other places tbf. by irish standards i dont think ive ever actually known any alcoholics, by standards over here, i used to be one, and pretty much all my peers back home still are

K-9 · 13-03-2012 04:07AM

MyKeyG wrote: »

So you don't see why somebody might want to go from heavy drinking to moderate drinking?

If your fighting a battle to be a moderate drinker, no? I wouldn't find it enjoyable.

I can go for one pint and enjoy it. I'd think a heavy drinker would find it very hard to get to that that level of drinking or thinking.

MyKeyG · 13-03-2012 04:10AM

Babybuff wrote: »

In your terms then alcoholism is a result of alcohol dependency. Where do you draw the line? The question is does alcoholism run in families but this merely states that at some point or another an alcohol dependant person will eventually become biologically addicted to alcohol. That's not a condition someone is born with.

When did I say alcoholism is a result of dependency? I didn't say that at all. I merely said there was a difference. Nobody can say that alcoholism is hereditary, in actual fact there's no evidence to support the supposition that any form of addiction is hereditary at all.

I was just raising the point that just because someone appears very fond of the drink it doesn't mean they're suffering from alcoholism which most psychological professionals will tell you is a biological illness such as any other.

Chuck Stone · 13-03-2012 04:12AM

MyKeyG wrote: »

alcoholism which most psychological professionals will tell you is a biological illness such as any other.

Source?

MyKeyG · 13-03-2012 04:12AM

K-9 wrote: »

If your fighting a battle to be a moderate drinker, no? I wouldn't find it enjoyable.

I can go for one pint and enjoy it. I'd think a heavy drinker would find it very hard to get to that that level of drinking or thinking.

Very difficult yes, impossible? No. When I had Chronic Anxiety Disorder I was drinking 14 cans of cheap beer every day. Anyone who looked at me would have thought I was an alcoholic. However I got professional and medical help and got to the root of my problems. I was dependent on alcohol to fight off the anxiety. When I dealt with the anxiety I no longer had a need to self medicate and now I enjoy social drinking.

JohnMearsheimer · 13-03-2012 04:14AM

My uncle is and ironically enough he worked in a brewery. Apparently he was quite bad in the mid 80s, I was too young to remember but my dad looked after him and was paying his mortgage for him as well as his own when the rest of the family turned their back on him. I have never seen the man drunk in my life though. He isn't as bad as he was, he did get his life together somewhat but he still likes a drink. He has been very good to me and my 2 sisters.

Babybuff · 13-03-2012 04:15AM

MyKeyG wrote: »

When did I say alcoholism is a result of dependency? I didn't say that at all. I merely said there was a difference. Nobody can say that alcoholism is hereditary, in actual fact there's no evidence to support the supposition that any form of addiction is hereditary at all.

you didn't, that's the point.

I was just raising the point that just because someone appears very fond of the drink it doesn't mean they're suffering from alcoholism which most psychological professionals will tell you is a biological illness such as any other.

and maybe it does, so on your terms without medical directive what's to say that Johnny there is not an alcoholic just a heavy drinker, until he's laid up in a hospital with cirrhosis of the liver but you came here and made claim that you doubt anyone here really knows anyone with alcoholism despite evidence of the same.

MyKeyG · 13-03-2012 04:17AM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Source?

I'm afraid I don't have the minutes of my last meeting with my psychologist available to post but perhaps you can punch holes in my claim using your own extensive knowledge base and experience.

MyKeyG · 13-03-2012 04:21AM

Babybuff wrote: »

and maybe it does, so on your terms without medical directive what's to say that Johnny there is not an alcoholic just a heavy drinker, until he's laid up in a hospital with cirrhosis of the liver but you came here and made claim that you doubt anyone here really knows anyone with alcoholism despite evidence of the same.

Agreed but who's to say Johnny IS an alcoholic? That's my point. I never suggested the omission of medical directive. Anyone who drinks to excess should of course seek the proper attention.

The default attitude seems to be that someone is an alcoholic (or suffering from alcoholism to be more PC) I'm just trying to point out the simple fact that very often a tendency towards habitual binge drinking can be dealt with and that dependency does not have to compare to the disease.

BTW I made no such claim to ANYONE! And well you know it. I made a general statement that some people here may well be confusing the two. I never said anyone WAS so please don't put words in my mouth!

crapmanjoe · 13-03-2012 04:24AM

I have a friend whose 29 who is the definition of a functioning alcoholic

When we were younger he was first to round up the troops for beers, then when we had enough he'd keep drinking with some one else. Then turned to drinking with any one in the local and now can just drink by himself.

Regularly throws away 4/5 bottles of wine Monday to Thursday at home and then go out Friday and Saturday. Few on Sunday then while watching soccer/ Gaa/ golf / water polo.. Any sports thats on tv and that he can gamble on.

Weird thing is I've never seen the man hung over or eating in general for that matter. Has a slightly strange green look and real red roses cheeks now

Has a good job and never seems to miss a days work. As I said a real functioning piss head.

Babybuff · 13-03-2012 04:26AM

MyKeyG wrote: »

Agreed but who's to say Johnny IS an alcoholic? That's my point. I never suggested the omission of medical directive. Anyone who drinks to excess should of course seek the proper attention.

The default attitude seems to be that someone is an alcoholic (or suffering from alcoholism to be more PC) I'm just trying to point out the simple fact that very often a tendency towards habitual binge drinking can be dealt with and that dependency does not have to compare to the disease.

exactly, who is to say. Maybe Johnny knows. You've stated you're not an alcoholic and well done on sorting out your problems but the fact is you could very well have been and no different to anyone else out there who didn't get the help they needed when they needed it.

MyKeyG · 13-03-2012 04:32AM

Babybuff wrote: »

exactly, who is to say. Maybe Johnny knows. You've stated you're not an alcoholic and well done on sorting out your problems but the fact is you could very well have been and no different to anyone else out there who didn't get the help they needed when they needed it.

I agree and thank you for the compliment. I'm just trying to point out the assumption that can be made. I think people have jumped to the conclusion that just because I claim a difference between the two that I consider one or the other of lesser severity, that's not the case.

I'm not saying the individual in either situation shouldn't take action or that their friends shouldn't be concerned but I do personally make a clear distinction between various forms of psychological and biological compulsion to substance abuse.

I just find the claim 'Johnny is an alcoholic' A. Presumption and B. Politically incorrect.

Babybuff · 13-03-2012 04:34AM

k I hear you, just as far as I'm aware it all begins as a psychological compulsion.

mathepac · 13-03-2012 04:34AM

Hot Lips wrote: »

... I think if you have an addictive personality you have to be aware of alcohol,gambling and hard drugs,food even. ...

There is no such thing.

Babybuff wrote: »

There is no genetic marker for alcoholism.

I think you mean that no genetic marker has been identified. That's very different to saying that a family history of alcohol dependency is not statistically significant.

Helix wrote: »

irish people have a very different definition of alcoholism to many other places ...

Nonsense. The clinical definitions of 'alcoholism'. 'alcohol abuse', 'alcohol dependency' in Ireland are in line with definitions and classifications used internationally.

MyKeyG wrote: »

But there is a difference that's all I'm saying. A person with alcohol dependency can be trained to adopt a responsible attitude towards alcohol whereas those suffering from alcoholism can not.

Rubbish

MyKeyG wrote: »

No it is not! A dependency is when alcohol is used to treat a problem alcoholism IS the problem. Ask any psychologist and they will tell you that exact same thing. I know because it's what I was told by a psychologist and senior psychiatrist.

and I'll line up a couple of dozen of their colleagues to tell you the exact opposite.

LH Pathe · 13-03-2012 04:37AM

MyKeyG wrote: »

I just find the claim 'Johnny is an alcoholic' A. Presumption and B. Politically incorrect.

correction: Johnny was an alcoholic.

And let that be a warning to all of y'all, big or small. Alcohol dies not discriminate

MyKeyG · 13-03-2012 04:38AM

Babybuff wrote: »

k I hear you, just as far as I'm aware it all begins as a psychological compulsion.

And that's a fine opinion. In fairness even a professional wouldn't be able to tell you that you're wrong and I certainly wouldn't say that you are. Alcohol dependency is one of the reasons I chose to study psychology and I along with many more may be yet proved wrong. I'm obsessed with the study of behaviour and one of my goals is to see how behavioural therapy can be applied to dependency.

MyKeyG · 13-03-2012 04:39AM

mathepac wrote: »

and I'll line up a couple of dozen of their colleagues to tell you the exact opposite.

Whoop de freakin do. Medical professionals differ in opinions, anything else you want to tell us that we already actually know?

Sharpshooter · 13-03-2012 04:51AM

mathepac wrote: »

There is no such thing.

Sure there is,an addictive personality refers to a particular set of personality traits that make an individual predisposed to addictions.

Google it,I did.

JupiterKid · 13-03-2012 04:55AM

Yes, my late uncle on my mum's side was a chronic alcoholic who died young. I also have problems with alcohol - so I don't drink anymore.

I can bet that in most Irish clans/extended families - there is at least one member at every generation that has addiction/dependency issues with alcohol.

Chuck Stone · 13-03-2012 04:56AM

MyKeyG wrote: »

I'm afraid I don't have the minutes of my last meeting with my psychologist available to post but perhaps you can punch holes in my claim using your own extensive knowledge base and experience.

You are making bold claims that you have no evidence for. If you want your claims to be taken seriously then you should present some evidence to back them or we may as well be arguing which flavour of ice cream is the best*.

*Vanilla.

Babybuff · 13-03-2012 04:58AM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

*Vanilla.

ok. how ..nm. I'm going to bed.

Chuck Stone · 13-03-2012 05:00AM

Babybuff wrote: »

ok. how ..nm. I'm going to bed.

Cos I said so. That's that.

Alcoholism in your family?

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