Alcoholism in your family?

Kimia

With Paddy's day around the corner and the inevitable drinking that will ensue, I got to thinking about Ireland and drinking etc. I have several alcoholics in my family - one who just seems to be revving up - and at this stage I'm almost out of sympathy and am just sick of it. I live in Canada and it seems that noone I've met here has several alcoholics in their family like I do here.

Does alcoholism run in your family?

Babybuff

not in my immediate family, my folks never drank but extended family there's a few.

krudler

one uncle who most of my family dont talk to anymore, another on the wagon a few years now.

Kiera

Yup on both sides. They're quite far removed tho as in they are my mam and dads uncles. My mam and dad never drank because of this so it looks like they broke the cycle.

Temptamperu

nah, they just like to drink until they dont have feelings.

Chuck Stone

Can alcoholism run in the family?

I hate the idea of biological determinism.

44leto

I am Irish and like all Irish there is alcoholics in the family and beyond.

I know there is a hereditary factor in alcoholism I am not one, BUT give me the money and the time off and no responsibilities, Alcohol here I come bigtime.

Babybuff

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Can alcoholism run in the family?

I hate the idea of biological determinism.

not sure I would classify it as biological but my mothers side has more than one and they came from a typical disadvantaged/unemployed large catholic family and married into similar, whereas in comparison my dad had a middle class upbringing with fewer siblings where no one drank bar a glass of the finest with a meal at Christmas.

Senna

No doubt there are a few "functioning social alcoholics" but not in my immediate family at-least.

44leto

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Can alcoholism run in the family?

I hate the idea of biological determinism.

Yeah its pretty certain, but that just means you could be, I pretty sure I could be one, I just need more money and no job, a lotto win would clinch it.

Babybuff

44leto wrote: »

Yeah its pretty certain, but that just means you could be, I pretty sure I could be one, I just need more money and no job, a lotto win would clinch it.

there is no evidence to suggest it is
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/alerts/l/blnaa18.htm

The idea that alcoholism runs in families is an ancient one. In recent decades, science has advanced this idea from the status of folk-observation to systematic investigation (1-3). In the 1970s, studies documented that alcoholism does run in families (4,5) But does alcoholism run in families because a child learns to become an alcoholic from parents and the home environment, or because a child inherits genes that create an underlying predisposition for alcoholism? Or both? The studies did not resolve these questions.

SingItOut

Yeah there's a fair few on my dads side, my dad included. He has already been told he can't drink anymore because he almost died from a severe brain bleed due to high blood pressure. He made a vow to stay off beer from then on wards .. that lasted two weeks and he continues coming home blind drunk, tonight included. It's embarrasing & his awful bad temper the next morning & all week till he drinks again is something that needs to be seen to be believed. I've lived with it for 22 years, my entire life. We buried my 47 year old aunt today, she died after fighting cancer for 12 years. His solution? go out and get blind drunk, then demand to go to her grave. So moral of my story is I have no sympathy for alcoholics, no matter what their circumstances. We have tried talking to him on many occasions but like all alcoholics he doesn't think he has a problem. To put your family through that is just selfish and I hate my father for it.

LH Pathe

Yeap.. te ouldfella. who died, at 50 with cirrhosis of thee liver. A painful and lonely death, with only one leg and a bottle if white lightning. And his good pal nick, would come around with the thunderbird. And threaten his life apparently, with a big knife.

Sharpshooter

This is worth thinking about.

Regardless of a genetic tendency toward alcoholism, it is still a conscious decision to choose to drink and to get drunk. It has been said that the person with the genetic predisposition to alcoholism is an alcoholic at birth whether or not he or she ever takes a drink. Taking the drink initiates the disease into its active phase. The ability to stop drinking before becoming addicted lies ultimately in the hands of the drinker.

I think if you have an addictive personality you have to be aware of alcohol,gambling and hard drugs,food even.

Addiction knows no limits,until those affected seek help,and even then they have to really want to be free of it.

K-9

Babybuff wrote: »

not sure I would classify it as biological but my mothers side has more than one and they came from a typical disadvantaged/unemployed large catholic family and married into similar, whereas in comparison my dad had a middle class upbringing with fewer siblings where no one drank bar a glass of the finest with a meal at Christmas.

It's all my mothers side, not disadvantaged, unemployed or a large Catholic family though.

Hot Lips wrote: »

This is worth thinking about.



I think if you have an addictive personality you have to be aware of alcohol,gambling and hard drugs,food even.

Addiction knows no limits,until those affected seek help,and even then they have to really want to be free of it.

This seems to be the new way of thinking with Alcoholism as a disease losing traction.

I've a brother who seems to be finally making efforts, I'd say largely to bad influences out of his life and being late 40's, now or never. I do think that is a stage in life you either give it up, or it is generally for life. General observation, nothing to back it up.

I've two relations in their 80's, rampant alcoholics and it's sad to watch, at that age. Not a nice way to be at that age. One was always an alcoholic as long as I knew him, the other just grew into it through loneliness, sad to watch her.

TerrorFirmer

My grandfather was a dreadful alcoholic to the point of almost ruining his immediate family in a time period where his means should have vastly exceeded the norm in 1960's Ireland, yet he squandered it all on drink, and I know my father harbors resentment for that very fact, long after he passed. The funny thing is that I used to always incredulously wonder how someone could become so dependent on alcohol to the detriment of their own family, yet strangely myself have found that recently, I've become increasingly reliant on alcohol, sometimes - often - in scenarios as simple as just sitting around at home watching a movie, but I find it almost restores some sort of balance I find is missing without, if that makes any sense. Probably not a good sign.

Babybuff

K-9 wrote: »

It's all my mothers side, not disadvantaged, unemployed or a large Catholic family though.



This seems to be the new way of thinking with Alcoholism as a disease losing traction.

I've a brother who seems to be finally making efforts, I'd say largely to bad influences out of his life and being late 40's, now or never. I do think that is a stage in life you either give it up, or it is generally for life. General observation, nothing to back it up.

I've two relations in their 80's, rampant alcoholics and it's sad to watch, at that age. Not a nice way to be at that age. One was always an alcoholic as long as I knew him, the other just grew into it through loneliness, sad to watch her.

There is no genetic marker for alcoholism.

K-9

Babybuff wrote: »

There is no genetic marker for alcoholism.

Ah right, strange you referenced your mothers side and said you weren't sure.

Now you seem sure, fair enough, I'll give it a look.

carrick79

Hot Lips wrote: »

This is worth thinking about.



I think if you have an addictive personality you have to be aware of alcohol,gambling and hard drugs,food even.

Addiction knows no limits,until those affected seek help,and even then they have to really want to be free of it.

I find that interesting. I smoked from 14 to 28, and im off them almost 4 years. But I drink quite a bit (in fact i'm just home from the pub.) But not enough to label myself an alcoholic. Yet. Do I have an addictive personality? I think i may have. Which is a bit **** tbh. Where do I get help?:cool:

Dudess

Maternal grandfather was a violent alcoholic but ultimately gave up the drink and made peace with most of his family.

Loads of men (not women for some reason) on my dad's side with drink problems, who were all dead before 60.

I can understand exasperation and anger at those who are drinking themselves into an early grave and hurting those who love them, but zero understanding of how powerful addiction can be?

scooby2791

On one side of the family it was very prevalent, all recovering alcoholics now thought as far as I remember.

Babybuff

K-9 wrote: »

Ah right, strange you referenced your mothers side and said you weren't sure.

Now you seem sure, fair enough, I'll give it a look.

I jut felt it was more as a result of environment in that scenario, although I do believe that some inherited traits might be contribute to being vulnerable to becoming one.

However, other researchers have argued that the scenario of inheritance is more complex, and what is inherited is a mix of personality traits, such as those related to antisocial behavior, rather than alcoholism itself (27). Genes might play a direct role in the development of alcoholism, as in affecting the body's metabolism of alcohol; or they might play a less direct role, influencing a person's temperament or personality in such a way that the person becomes vulnerable to alcoholism
Different models for the way in which alcoholism runs in families have been suggested by a limited number of family studies. Interpretation of these studies has been complicated by the likelihood that alcoholism is a heterogeneous condition, that is, a collection of different conditions that look similar, but whose mechanisms and modes of inheritance may differ. Additional studies are needed to sort out the mechanisms of transmission (28,29).

I know that I get bored very easily and I get urges to do stuff when I'm bored, I'm not an alcoholic, I have four or five pints at the weekend like anyone else (I think I've tried pretty much everything at some stage or another) but never to the point of being dependant. Taking my personality traits into account it would be like saying someone who has a penchant for skydiving is genetically born that way.

Chuck Stone

It has been said that the person with the genetic predisposition to alcoholism is an alcoholic at birth whether or not he or she ever takes a drink. Taking the drink initiates the disease into its active phase.

The disease model of addiction - the favoured model of charlatans, puritans and quacks.

The word 'alcoholic' is meaningless as is the word 'disease' when used in conjunction with it.

K-9

Babybuff wrote: »

I jut felt it was more as a result of environment in that scenario, although I do believe that some inherited traits might be contribute to being vulnerable to becoming one.



I know that I get bored very easily and I get urges to do stuff when I'm bored, I'm not an alcoholic, I have four or five pints at the weekend like anyone else (I think I've tried pretty much everything at some stage or another) but never to the point of being dependant. Taking my personality traits into account it would be like saying someone who has a penchant for skydiving is genetically born that way.

The alcoholics I've known didn't have antisocial behaviour, mostly quite social, generally wanted to meet people, so kind of ties in with that

. 1 was pretty cantankerous though and to be avoided after a few!

Also a rampant alcoholic generally becomes a social outcast eventually, great craic when young, eventually the only company they have is usually other alcoholics, as everybody else gets bored!

Having said all that, the easy availability of alcohol in the last 10 years is probably changing all that!

Dudess

Kiera wrote: »

Yup on both sides. They're quite far removed tho as in they are my mam and dads uncles. My mam and dad never drank because of this so it looks like they broke the cycle.

Similar for my dad's side - his uncles. Not his father, although he died pretty young. My parents do drink but not that often. I think the fact that some children of alcoholics (e.g. my mum and her brother) ensure they don't abuse alcohol after what it turns their parents into, flies in the face of the genetic thing. It might be a learned behaviour, but I don't see how it could be literally in one's genes.

MyKeyG

Just to put in my two cents I always despair at how loosely the word alcoholic is thrown around. I'm not saying the posters on this page don't have alcoholic relatives but in may cases there's no actual proof other than the fact that they're fond of the gargle. Alcoholism is a biological addiction and shouldn't be confused with alcohol dependency which is a much more common problem.

Babybuff

MyKeyG wrote: »

Just to put in my two cents I always despair at how loosely the word alcoholic is thrown around. I'm not saying the posters on this page don't have alcoholic relatives but in may cases there's no actual proof other than the fact that they're fond of the gargle. Alcoholism is a biological addiction and shouldn't be confused with alcohol dependency which is a much more common problem.

I know that the people in my extended family I'm referring to are alcoholics, actually sober alcoholics and have been sober for more than a decade but both have been medically treated and spent time rehabilitating in private hospital regular AA meeting type alcoholics. Brother and sister. Anyone else in the family I would refer to as just being fond of the gargle and there are plenty of those.

K-9

MyKeyG wrote: »

Just to put in my two cents I always despair at how loosely the word alcoholic is thrown around. I'm not saying the posters on this page don't have alcoholic relatives but in may cases there's no actual proof other than the fact that they're fond of the gargle. Alcoholism is a biological addiction and shouldn't be confused with alcohol dependency which is a much more common problem.

Yeah. When you see it in two 80+ year old relatives, stomping at the bit to get to the local shop, smuggling a couple quarter bottles of wine into the handbag (easier to hide than a litre bottle) or the naggin into the coat pocket, you get an idea of where alcohol dependency can go.

Bear in mind they don't sip the wine or the naggin, they down it, sipping doesn't get the hit. Again, these are people in their 80's.

This is where dependency can lead.

Babybuff

MyKeyG wrote: »

Alcoholism is a biological addiction and shouldn't be confused with alcohol dependency which is a much more common problem.

alcholism is alcohol dependancy.

Chuck Stone

MyKeyG wrote: »

Alcoholism is a biological addiction

What exactly is a 'biological addiction'?

MyKeyG

K-9 wrote: »

Yeah. When you see it in two 80+ year old relatives, stomping at the bit to get to the local shop, smuggling a couple quarter bottles of wine into the handbag (easier to hide than a litre bottle) or the naggin into the coat pocket, you get an idea of where alcohol dependency can go.

Bear in mind they don't sip the wine or the naggin, they down it, sipping doesn't get the hit. Again, these are people in their 80's.

This is where dependency can lead.

But there is a difference that's all I'm saying. A person with alcohol dependency can be trained to adopt a responsible attitude towards alcohol whereas those suffering from alcoholism can not.

MyKeyG

Babybuff wrote: »

alcholism is alcohol dependancy.

No it is not! A dependency is when alcohol is used to treat a problem alcoholism IS the problem. Ask any psychologist and they will tell you that exact same thing. I know because it's what I was told by a psychologist and senior psychiatrist.

Babybuff

MyKeyG wrote: »

No it is not! A dependency is when alcohol is used to treat a problem alcoholism IS the problem. Ask any psychologist and they will tell you that exact same thing. I know because it's what I was told by a psychologist and senior psychiatrist.

eh..no.

MyKeyG

Chuck Stone wrote: »

What exactly is a 'biological addiction'?

Google it.

K-9

MyKeyG wrote: »

But there is a difference that's all I'm saying. A person with alcohol dependency can be trained to adopt a responsible attitude towards alcohol whereas those suffering from alcoholism can not.

Tbh, I don't see why you'd want to control a dependency. Kind of reminds me of cigarettes, I'll cut down to a couple a day.

Even if I did that, the damn cigarettes still control me!

MyKeyG

Babybuff wrote: »

eh..no.

My but you're very articulate. You almost have me convinced:rolleyes:

MyKeyG

K-9 wrote: »

Tbh, I don't see why you'd control a dependency. Kind of reminds me of cigarettes, I'll cut down and eventually go off them, doesn't seem to work!

So you don't see why somebody might want to go from heavy drinking to moderate drinking?

Chuck Stone

MyKeyG wrote: »

Google it.

There's no such thing as a biological addiction.

Babybuff

MyKeyG wrote: »

My but you're very articulate. You almost have me convinced:rolleyes:

In your terms then alcoholism is a result of alcohol dependency. Where do you draw the line? The question is does alcoholism run in families but this merely states that at some point or another an alcohol dependant person will eventually become biologically addicted to alcohol. That's not a condition someone is born with.

Helix

irish people have a very different definition of alcoholism to many other places tbf. by irish standards i dont think ive ever actually known any alcoholics, by standards over here, i used to be one, and pretty much all my peers back home still are

K-9

MyKeyG wrote: »

So you don't see why somebody might want to go from heavy drinking to moderate drinking?

If your fighting a battle to be a moderate drinker, no? I wouldn't find it enjoyable.

I can go for one pint and enjoy it. I'd think a heavy drinker would find it very hard to get to that that level of drinking or thinking.

MyKeyG

Babybuff wrote: »

In your terms then alcoholism is a result of alcohol dependency. Where do you draw the line? The question is does alcoholism run in families but this merely states that at some point or another an alcohol dependant person will eventually become biologically addicted to alcohol. That's not a condition someone is born with.

When did I say alcoholism is a result of dependency? I didn't say that at all. I merely said there was a difference. Nobody can say that alcoholism is hereditary, in actual fact there's no evidence to support the supposition that any form of addiction is hereditary at all.

I was just raising the point that just because someone appears very fond of the drink it doesn't mean they're suffering from alcoholism which most psychological professionals will tell you is a biological illness such as any other.

Chuck Stone

MyKeyG wrote: »

alcoholism which most psychological professionals will tell you is a biological illness such as any other.

Source?

MyKeyG

K-9 wrote: »

If your fighting a battle to be a moderate drinker, no? I wouldn't find it enjoyable.

I can go for one pint and enjoy it. I'd think a heavy drinker would find it very hard to get to that that level of drinking or thinking.

Very difficult yes, impossible? No. When I had Chronic Anxiety Disorder I was drinking 14 cans of cheap beer every day. Anyone who looked at me would have thought I was an alcoholic. However I got professional and medical help and got to the root of my problems. I was dependent on alcohol to fight off the anxiety. When I dealt with the anxiety I no longer had a need to self medicate and now I enjoy social drinking.

JohnMearsheimer

My uncle is and ironically enough he worked in a brewery. Apparently he was quite bad in the mid 80s, I was too young to remember but my dad looked after him and was paying his mortgage for him as well as his own when the rest of the family turned their back on him. I have never seen the man drunk in my life though. He isn't as bad as he was, he did get his life together somewhat but he still likes a drink. He has been very good to me and my 2 sisters.

Babybuff

MyKeyG wrote: »

When did I say alcoholism is a result of dependency? I didn't say that at all. I merely said there was a difference. Nobody can say that alcoholism is hereditary, in actual fact there's no evidence to support the supposition that any form of addiction is hereditary at all.

you didn't, that's the point.

I was just raising the point that just because someone appears very fond of the drink it doesn't mean they're suffering from alcoholism which most psychological professionals will tell you is a biological illness such as any other.

and maybe it does, so on your terms without medical directive what's to say that Johnny there is not an alcoholic just a heavy drinker, until he's laid up in a hospital with cirrhosis of the liver but you came here and made claim that you doubt anyone here really knows anyone with alcoholism despite evidence of the same.

MyKeyG

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Source?

I'm afraid I don't have the minutes of my last meeting with my psychologist available to post but perhaps you can punch holes in my claim using your own extensive knowledge base and experience.

MyKeyG

Babybuff wrote: »

and maybe it does, so on your terms without medical directive what's to say that Johnny there is not an alcoholic just a heavy drinker, until he's laid up in a hospital with cirrhosis of the liver but you came here and made claim that you doubt anyone here really knows anyone with alcoholism despite evidence of the same.

Agreed but who's to say Johnny IS an alcoholic? That's my point. I never suggested the omission of medical directive. Anyone who drinks to excess should of course seek the proper attention.

The default attitude seems to be that someone is an alcoholic (or suffering from alcoholism to be more PC) I'm just trying to point out the simple fact that very often a tendency towards habitual binge drinking can be dealt with and that dependency does not have to compare to the disease.

BTW I made no such claim to ANYONE! And well you know it. I made a general statement that some people here may well be confusing the two. I never said anyone WAS so please don't put words in my mouth!

crapmanjoe

I have a friend whose 29 who is the definition of a functioning alcoholic

When we were younger he was first to round up the troops for beers, then when we had enough he'd keep drinking with some one else. Then turned to drinking with any one in the local and now can just drink by himself.

Regularly throws away 4/5 bottles of wine Monday to Thursday at home and then go out Friday and Saturday. Few on Sunday then while watching soccer/ Gaa/ golf / water polo.. Any sports thats on tv and that he can gamble on.

Weird thing is I've never seen the man hung over or eating in general for that matter. Has a slightly strange green look and real red roses cheeks now

Has a good job and never seems to miss a days work. As I said a real functioning piss head.

Babybuff

MyKeyG wrote: »

Agreed but who's to say Johnny IS an alcoholic? That's my point. I never suggested the omission of medical directive. Anyone who drinks to excess should of course seek the proper attention.

The default attitude seems to be that someone is an alcoholic (or suffering from alcoholism to be more PC) I'm just trying to point out the simple fact that very often a tendency towards habitual binge drinking can be dealt with and that dependency does not have to compare to the disease.

exactly, who is to say. Maybe Johnny knows. You've stated you're not an alcoholic and well done on sorting out your problems but the fact is you could very well have been and no different to anyone else out there who didn't get the help they needed when they needed it.

MyKeyG

Babybuff wrote: »

exactly, who is to say. Maybe Johnny knows. You've stated you're not an alcoholic and well done on sorting out your problems but the fact is you could very well have been and no different to anyone else out there who didn't get the help they needed when they needed it.

I agree and thank you for the compliment. I'm just trying to point out the assumption that can be made. I think people have jumped to the conclusion that just because I claim a difference between the two that I consider one or the other of lesser severity, that's not the case.

I'm not saying the individual in either situation shouldn't take action or that their friends shouldn't be concerned but I do personally make a clear distinction between various forms of psychological and biological compulsion to substance abuse.

I just find the claim 'Johnny is an alcoholic' A. Presumption and B. Politically incorrect.