Grafton St. repaving

Jesus Wept · 19-07-2011 7:02am

O'Connell Street looks like crap.

lol@ 'shopping mecca' Grafton Street.

Rock of Gibraltar · 06-03-2012 4:37am

Update on this;

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0306/1224312850751.html

Bad news it's going to be greyscale with a hint of pink, this will really change the character of the street.
Fair enough the red stuff was bad quality and needed replacing but why are they insisting on more grey?

Also says there's going to be new street furniture, i'd give narrow odds it'll be shiny steel bins and lamp posts.

AngryLips · 06-03-2012 9:56am

About time

GetWithIt · 06-03-2012 12:47pm

I hope they throw a splash of water across the new paving before they decide on which ones to go for. Almost creased myself at the weekend walking along a newly pedestrianized section in Limerick.

Jehuty42 · 06-03-2012 4:08pm

The comments on news sites about this story are depressing.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0305/graftonstreet.html#comments wrote:

We should be spending 4 million on hospitals. What a joke.

And the shocking state of the roads here in the West of Ireland..... This is disgraceful news [:rolleyes:]

now all the city council needs is your 100 euro house tax to pay for this. funny how bits of road and foot paths are being worked on when the country is in such a state. these jobs were not done in the boom of celtic tiger. they have to justify their jobs now and are scraping the barrell on how to spend money..

This is a joke, right? An early April Fool prank?

alot towards costs of new paediatric childrens hospital.....................enough said

No wonder nothing gets done in this country when gombeens will cry foul of doing nothing more contentious than resurfacing a bloody street in the busiest part of the country.

BrianD · 06-03-2012 5:25pm

Jehuty42 wrote: »

The comments on news sites about this story are depressing.

No wonder nothing gets done in this country when gombeens will cry foul of doing nothing more contentious than resurfacing a bloody street in the busiest part of the country.

And worse still these country bumpkins are costing us a fortune as we subsidise every part of their existence.

Anyway back to Grafton st.

It would be great if we can insist that Irish stone could be used in this repaving project.

The capital city should be showcasing our own stone.

It's my understanding that some or all of the stone used in recent repaving projects originated in China.

Wild Bill · 06-03-2012 7:24pm

BrianD wrote: »

And worse still these country bumpkins are costing us a fortune as we subsidise every part of their existence.

Anyway back to Grafton st.

Down with bumpkins!

I don't mind grey - never really liked that Eurobrick red; looked too much like the inside of an enclosed shopping mall.

Aard · 06-03-2012 7:56pm

I know there could be endless debates on colour, its history, character of the area, etc, but I just hope that whatever they put down doesn't become slippery. It should be the #1 consideration imo.

[Jackass] · 06-03-2012 8:23pm

I agree that Grafton St could do with a revamp, the "bricks" are all quite loose and thus dangerous, but I really like the red colouring and I think it gives the Grafton st. area some unique character, I hope that's not lost in the revamp. A dull, grey boring revamp will make it just the same as Henry St, O'Connell st and just about every other pedestrianised street in Europe.

I really agree with someone else's comment that it should stretch around Trinity and up to O'Connell bridge and re-direct all the bus and taxi traffic around there that you can walk around town without dealing with traffic.

Maybe they can use this oppertunity to not just make Grafton st all nice and shiney, but put a tunnell underneath for a sub-way luas line with a station under Grafton St., up by the Molloy Malone.

Typewriter · 07-03-2012 12:37am

Ok so rte news told me it would be the same paving as Henry Street so I made a mock-up of what it would look like.

I took a street-view image from Grafton Street...
picture.php?albumid=378&pictureid=12144

Then a street-view image from Henry Street...
picture.php?albumid=378&pictureid=12143

Put them together (quite crudely) and I got this...

picture.php?albumid=378&pictureid=12151

Looks a bit bland to me. The place will totally lose its character IMO.

Plowman · 07-03-2012 12:23pm

This post has been deleted.

monument · 07-03-2012 12:35pm

Most of the time while on Grafton Street there's so many people you can't see much of the ground because there's so much people on the street!

Wild Bill · 07-03-2012 6:31pm

Typewriter wrote: »

Put them together (quite crudely) and I got this...

Looks a bit bland to me. The place will totally lose its character IMO.

Looks infinitely better to me than the current ugh!

Doctors differ I guess......maybe if being "different" is the goal we could make it bright yellow...like the street in the Wizard of Oz?

lucernarian · 08-03-2012 12:13pm

Seems most people here are very much against greyscale paving such as what's infested DCC's street renewals (Drumcondra, Pearse St, Rathmines etc) and other places (Drogheda's main street is a particularly unfortunate example).

I for one am inclined to agree!

Irish and Proud · 08-03-2012 11:39pm

I don't think the grey paving would suit Grafton Street - if the whole thing needs redoing, maybe a slightly softer version of whats currently there - that way Grafton Street would be updated, but would still retain its character IMO - in short, the current bay layout should stay - there's absolutely nothing wrong with that aspect as far as I'm concerned. Also, given the importance of the street to Dublin's identity, the ordinary people should be consulted before any work is done!

Regards!

John_Rambo · 09-03-2012 12:04am

I know I'm in the minority here, but I like the granite! Specially when it gets wet. It's a natural product with natural faults and patterns rather than the typical red brick UK style pedestrian zone. I think it's a good call, it would be nice if they could do something creative with the seating, bins, pink walkway... etc.

Does anyone know where the granite comes from?

Wild Bill · 09-03-2012 1:23am

John_Rambo wrote: »

I know I'm in the minority here, but I like the granite! Specially when it gets wet. It's a natural product with natural faults and patterns rather than the typical red brick UK style pedestrian zone. I think it's a good call, it would be nice if they could do something creative with the seating, bins, pink walkway... etc.

Does anyone know where the granite comes from?

Wicklow?

monument · 09-03-2012 2:09am

John_Rambo wrote: »

Does anyone know where the granite comes from?

For such projects, the stone mostly comes pre-cut and surfaced from China or India, more likely the former.

Irish granite would cost a lot more mine, and to cut and shape.

John_Rambo · 09-03-2012 9:37am

monument wrote: »

For such projects comes mostly comes pre-cut and surfaced from China or India, more likely the former.

Irish granite would cost a lot more mine, and to cut and shape.

Ah, you're kidding me? I really think it should be indigenous stuff. It will cost more, but it would be better for obvious reasons. What's wrong with Liscannor stone? Is it too brittle?

Jehuty42 · 09-03-2012 1:31pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

for obvious reasons

Enlighten us, I don't see what's so obvious about it.

John_Rambo · 09-03-2012 2:28pm

Jehuty42 wrote: »

Enlighten us, I don't see what's so obvious about it.

Us? Are speaking on behalf of everyone on the thread? I just thought native rock would be nice, I particularly like Liscannor rock... The mining, cutting and whatever other processes that go into this type of thing would be advantageous to keep within the country, enhancing employment, skills, revenue etc.

But, if it makes better ecanomic sense to ship it in... So be it, I havent crunched the numbers.

monument · 09-03-2012 2:31pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

Ah, you're kidding me? I really think it should be indigenous stuff. It will cost more, but it would be better for obvious reasons. What's wrong with Liscannor stone? Is it too brittle?

No, I'm not kidding.

Cost wise alone, it would be madness trying to source the finish product stone for a large scale project in Ireland.

John_Rambo · 09-03-2012 3:02pm

monument wrote: »

No, I'm not kidding.

Cost wise alone, it would be madness trying to source the finish product stone for a large scale project in Ireland.

Ok. I'm no expert. I was just wondering...

OssianSmyth · 09-03-2012 5:01pm

Lisbon has a fine tradition of "Calçada" street paving:

Wild Bill · 12-03-2012 9:50pm

OssianSmyth wrote: »

Lisbon has a fine tradition of "Calçada" street paving:

Now that's better than the ugly red rubbish that "adorns" Grafton Street!

Plowman · 12-03-2012 11:40pm

This post has been deleted.

Monty Burnz · 12-03-2012 11:43pm

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Downward incline? I thought it had an upward incline?

I guess you learn something new everyday.

Plowman · 12-03-2012 11:51pm

This post has been deleted.

OssianSmyth · 13-03-2012 11:05am

The existing surface is completely worn out, broken and dangerous The white tiles were 'born slippy'.

photo courtesy of GrahamH/archiseek

Wild Bill · 13-03-2012 9:26pm

OssianSmyth wrote: »

The existing surface is completely worn out, broken and dangerous The white tiles were 'born slippy'.

More trippy than slippy at this stage!

Rock of Gibraltar · 14-03-2012 2:46pm

The thing I don't understand about the current Grafton Street paving is why has it been allowed to disintegrate so quickly?
Surely the whole point of brick paving is that it can be taken up and put back down with minimal fuss, that damaged bricks can be replaced easily and that it can generally age well.

There is clinker brick paving outside my house here in Holland, yesterday some lads from the city can by and removed it as they needed to get at some wire underneath it. They had the bricks up, repaired the wire and down again in 4 hours. It looks exactly the same as it did before the works, if I hadn't seen the workers do the work I wouldn't have known any work was done.
There are areas of the city here that have had clinker brick paving for well over 100 years and they look fantastic, aged really beautifully.

So why oh why are we so incapable of proper maintenance in Dublin City, as far as I can see unless we can learn to properly maintain our streets we're going to have this same discussion about how knackered grafton street is in 30 years.

Like we've all seen it, DCC idea of maintenance is lobbing down a bit of crappy tarmac instead of doing proper repairs, O'Neills corner on Suffolk st and the Nassau and Kildare st junction spring to mind (granted that was because of buses but its indicative of the attitude).

sdanseo · 14-03-2012 8:08pm

I'm pissed off about the same paving as Henry Street. Always thought the Northside's apparent lack of any character whatsoever was personified by the overuse of Grey in O'Connell St and Henry St.

The southside shopping areas, on the other hand, aside from any perception of added wealth and less junkies, has always had more character and the red brick has an awful lot to do with it.

monument · 14-03-2012 8:19pm

Rock of Gibraltar wrote: »

The thing I don't understand about the current Grafton Street paving is why has it been allowed to disintegrate so quickly?
Surely the whole point of brick paving is that it can be taken up and put back down with minimal fuss, that damaged bricks can be replaced easily and that it can generally age well.

There is clinker brick paving outside my house here in Holland, yesterday some lads from the city can by and removed it as they needed to get at some wire underneath it. They had the bricks up, repaired the wire and down again in 4 hours. It looks exactly the same as it did before the works, if I hadn't seen the workers do the work I wouldn't have known any work was done.
There are areas of the city here that have had clinker brick paving for well over 100 years and they look fantastic, aged really beautifully.

So why oh why are we so incapable of proper maintenance in Dublin City, as far as I can see unless we can learn to properly maintain our streets we're going to have this same discussion about how knackered grafton street is in 30 years.

Like we've all seen it, DCC idea of maintenance is lobbing down a bit of crappy tarmac instead of doing proper repairs, O'Neills corner on Suffolk st and the Nassau and Kildare st junction spring to mind (granted that was because of buses but its indicative of the attitude).

Because the abuse the surface gets from heavy trucks and large vans which it seems the paving on Grafton Street was not designed for, and maybe also a maintance regime which did not or could not keep up with the abuse. The council wants to work with retail and distribution companies to limit the amount of larger trucks or vans over the new surface.

I'm gussing the surface outside your house in the Netherlands mostly gets cars and bicycles over it?

Rock of Gibraltar · 14-03-2012 11:04pm

monument wrote: »

Because the abuse the surface gets from heavy trucks and large vans which it seems the paving on Grafton Street was not designed for, and maybe also a maintance regime which did not or could not keep up with the abuse. The council wants to work with retail and distribution companies to limit the amount of larger trucks or vans over the new surface.

I'm gussing the surface outside your house in the Netherlands mostly gets cars and bicycles over it?

Yeah outside my place it's mostly bikes and the occasional car but in other places in the city with older bricks they'd get a similar amount, as Grafton, of large trucks and vans for deliveries or whatever.
The difference being there are no cheapo white tiles or thin granite slats to break under the pressure just bricks.
Its the tiles and granite that are the real problem on Grafton, I reckon if they were replaced with something better you'd get far more life out of the rest of the surface.

Ernest · 26-03-2012 3:36pm

Rock of Gibraltar wrote: »

Like we've all seen it, DCC idea of maintenance is lobbing down a bit of crappy tarmac instead of doing proper repairs, O'Neills corner on Suffolk st and the Nassau and Kildare st junction spring to mind (granted that was because of buses but its indicative of the attitude).

The same applies to the multitude of speed bumps that now pollute nearly every street in the suburbs. They begin as red mounds (designed to shake up drivers and passengers and patients in ambulances and damage suspension of cars) but they are not properly installed with appropriate materials and soon they begin to break up. So what do the idiots in Dublin City Council do about it? Sue the contractors ? No - they put down clumsy "crappy bits of " BLACK TARMACADAM patches over the red.

AngryLips · 29-03-2012 9:46am

OssianSmyth wrote: »

Lisbon has a fine tradition of "Calçada" street paving:

I like it and DCC should take inspiration from it, but to lift something like this from a city with a tradition of it to a city with no history of such street paving would only give it a pastiche look on Grafton Street. I think something a bit more contemporary but just as decorative could work though.

Wild Bill · 30-03-2012 11:40pm

AngryLips wrote: »

I like it and DCC should take inspiration from it, but to lift something like this from a city with a tradition of it to a city with no history of such street paving would only give it a pastiche look on Grafton Street. I think something a bit more contemporary but just as decorative could work though.

"pastiche" is an overworked word!

The Custom House is pastiche.

There is no "indigenous" paving style in Dublin; even the Georgian architecture and Victorian cobbles are/were copies, albeit contemporaneous.

The nearest thing in Ireland we have to an indigenous style is probably the 1970s bungalow; combining a blend of the best of Californian, Spanish and native styles

So let's copy the prettiest solutions and f*** the pretence.

Grafton St. repaving

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