playing during a comp..??

GreeBo · 07-03-2012 11:14AM

matt-dublin wrote: »

Greebo, its in context to the conversation.

Breaking club rules and taking direct action is the same as enforcing a law yourself in public.

Your post an attempt at an insult and didnt add any opinion or any view to the topic. Thus it was off-topic.

If you re-read my post you can see I dont mention taking direct action. Informing someone that they are in the wrong is not taking direct action.
Holding the down on the ground is taking direct action.

GreeBo · 07-03-2012 11:15AM

JD Dublin wrote: »

Well said Dtoffee this makes sense, and I tend to agree with - all would be sorted if the players inquestion did not walk on to the course, but, as echoed by Loire in a later reply asked in the pro shop if they could go out ( or not ).

But do you think the pro-shop should let them out in this case?
What if its a gap in the ladies time sheet?
What if its a gap in the captains prize?

Does the ability to break the rules now depend only on the competition?

golfwallah · 07-03-2012 12:03PM

Can see that there are lots of different views on this issue – similar to what you’d get in any golf club.

I accept that members own the club but the problem with allowing everyone police the rules is that it can result in even more rows, member dissatisfaction, etc. and is bad for club harmony (and, ultimately, club business). Effectively, if everyone is in charge, then nobody is in charge.

It’s the job of management to provide leadership – this is where the club’s officers and committee come in.

I’m not suggesting there is a perfect solution, but in our club we introduced a club “Complaints Process” to help resolve complaints and disputes quickly (as opposed to letting them fester until the next committee meeting or the AGM).

See attached pdf ...... might be of some help.

Redzah · 07-03-2012 12:05PM

golfwallah wrote: »

Can see that there are lots of different views on this issue – similar to what you’d get in any golf club.

I accept that members own the club but the problem with allowing everyone police the rules is that it can result in even more rows, member dissatisfaction, etc. and is bad for club harmony (and, ultimately, club business). Effectively, if everyone is in charge, then nobody is in charge.

It’s the job of management to provide leadership – this is where the club’s officers and committee come in.

I’m not suggesting there is a perfect solution, but in our club we introduced a club “Complaints Process” to help resolve complaints and disputes quickly (as opposed to letting them fester until the next committee meeting or the AGM).

See attached pdf ...... might be of some help.

Yes I completely agree, this is the rational way of doing this. Its just there are some irrational individuals out there who get a false sense of power by trying to take the law into their own hands.

Anatom · 07-03-2012 12:05PM

I'd suggest parking this thread for the moment. Its not going anywhere now and there are obviously two entrenched views here;

(a) those who believe that competition time is competition time and that nothing or no one else should interfere, no matter what, and
(b) those who want to exercise a more laissez-faire attitude to allow members to profit from gaps in the timesheet to allow non-competing members to jump in.

No one here is going to resolve this. Its been going on for a couple of days now, is slowly descending into dangerous territory and quite frankly is (because I had the temerity to comment) clogging up my inbox.

JD Dublin · 07-03-2012 12:21PM

GreeBo wrote: »

But do you think the pro-shop should let them out in this case?
What if its a gap in the ladies time sheet?
What if its a gap in the captains prize?

Does the ability to break the rules now depend only on the competition?

Yes I do think that the pro should make a call on it. If there is an important inter-club competition and the players will storm through the course then there shouldn't be casual golfers out there.

If on the other hand the pro thinks that there is a resonable gap, then he makes that call.

From reading the posts here, some people think you should be able to walk on to the first tee box, and if there is no-one else around that you should be able to tee off - that not right either. I am saying that the pro should be able to make that call.

TBH, the majority of golfers take a 'live and let live' attitude, if the activity in question doesnt interfere with their enjoyment of their game, then whats the problem.

blackwaterfish · 07-03-2012 12:23PM

GreeBo wrote: »

So you think a non member should be allowed rock up and play the course in the middle of a competition?

ah lord.... Did i say that!?... thats not what im advocating. what i believe is that a reasonable manner should be maintained when members are "advising" green fee customers of local rules.

please dont interpret my opinion for me.

as you say above, Informing someone that they are in the wrong is not taking direct action. Completely agree, however the manner in which this person is informed could be the diff. between someone coming back to the course or possibly becoming a member. etiquette is fundamental to golf afterall.

GreeBo wrote: »

What exactly is the point in saying something and then ending with, "carry on"?
Whats the point in saying "be advised next time"? Wouldnt you just tell them to carry on again?

the point is, in this specific case, there was a room for them. let them finish theyre round, advised of the local ruling, bearing it in mind for the next time they visit.

Anatom · 07-03-2012 12:33PM

OK,

NOW are we finished???!

Jeez. Yis are like children some of ye.... Honestly, I almost prefer the Harrington-bashing to this rubbish.

Leave it alone.

blackwaterfish · 07-03-2012 01:14PM

Anatom wrote: »

OK,

NOW are we finished???!

Jeez. Yis are like children some of ye.... Honestly, I almost prefer the Harrington-bashing to this rubbish.

Leave it alone.

Bono is that really you??... or possibly Geldolf???

FixdePitchmark · 07-03-2012 02:41PM

This is the best ever thread for making people not join a golf club.

Redzah · 07-03-2012 02:54PM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

This is the best ever thread for making people not join a golf club.

Yep I completely agree, all golf clubs have certain individuals which I view as a hinderence due to their poor attitude and waving a rulebook at u non-stop. This hinders the club in 2 ways;

1. Hinders the development of those within the club who wish to develop their game which is the large part of my arguement in the above posts.

2. Does not promote an open and welcoming club to those who wish to join.

These grumps are a plague to the golfing community and are not interested in the development of the game through our more juvenille members nor are they open and engaging to those who wish to take up the game as they are the first to give out when somebody new to the game may unknowingly demonstrate poor etiquette. Instead of an understanding that they are learning and new to the game, these folk would be first to jump down their throat and wave a rulebook at them. Its disgusting behaviour!!

blackwaterfish · 07-03-2012 03:27PM

Redzah wrote: »

These grumps are a plague to the golfing community

100% true. & its a f**king shame.

golfwallah · 07-03-2012 06:36PM

Reading posts on this issue, you could get them impression that there is a huge problem in clubs with rules, bullying, etc.

My experience is that this is far from the case and most golf clubs have a welcoming atmosphere, where old and new members are courteous to one another. Yes, problems can arise when a small number of more established club members display intolerance of new members and/or vice versa but let’s get a sense of proportion here – we’re a long way from “pistols at dawn” or another French Revolution.

A small minority of people occasionally lose the plot. They forget the Golden Rule that “one should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself”. They also forget the “Spirit of the Game”, which is based on honesty, integrity and courtesy.

That golf clubs need to find a way to keep their members (old, new & junior) and visitors happy has never been more evident - particularly in the current economic climate. Clubs that allow “grumps” to dominate, or allow others to completely disregard the rules, will ultimately have to pay the price in lost membership revenues.

Sure there has to be rules, but they need to be clear, applied with common sense and periodically reviewed and adapted to changing circumstances. Again that’s where club officers and committees need to show leadership. This requires them to encourage a sense of community and get their communication strategy right for all types of member, from the time they first join the club.:)

Unglika Norse · 07-03-2012 08:21PM

Redzah wrote: »

Yes I completely agree, this is the rational way of doing this. Its just there are some irrational individuals out there who get a false sense of power by trying to take the law into their own hands.

And you appear to be one of those

Raisins · 07-03-2012 10:48PM

When I was a junior I got a lot of macho men flexing their muscles in golf clubs. I understand the need for rules and I'm not making a point as regards the overall situation regarding playing rules in competitions. There is a point that the OP maybe should have checked in the pro shop but really in this case I do think a bit of common sense should have prevailed. Unfortunately, there are a lot of members in golf clubs with very little.

There's another reason why some members freak out about this I think. Some members think about the weekend competition all week. At work, at home, going out for a walk, all they do is think of the shots they'll play on each hole etc. They think the weekend competition is the Masters. I have seen some players practice 3 holes before playing with their partners and then walking off the course when things aren't going well. When these members see some casual golfers in their midst their perception that they're playing the masters is ruined. "How can you be playing the course right now? The grains of sand in the bunkers have been put out of place by non competition playing golfers!" "Don't you realise how super serious this is??"

It's pathetic and seems far fetched but it's actually true.

Dtoffee · 08-03-2012 12:17AM

Raisins wrote: »

I have seen some players practice 3 holes before playing

Hopefully not on the course that they are about to play the competition on as Mr Rulebook will have a field day :eek:

I think we all know someone who takes the game that seriously and generally they have a limited number of playing partners to pick from due to their stressed out approach to the game.

I think the OP said his friend got annoyed when they were confronted by a member for playing casual golf during competition time ...... the correct answer to this whole thread is 'two wrongs dont make a right!'. The boys were wrong to just walk out and start playing because they seen a gap and the member was wrong to get into an argument with them. In both cases they should have went to the professional / starter / Comp Secretary or whatever official is available at the time.

Raisins · 08-03-2012 02:09AM

Dtoffee wrote: »

Hopefully not on the course that they are about to play the competition on as Mr Rulebook will have a field day

No sorry that was misleading. It was a friendly game. That's how seriously this individual I'm referring to was taking the round. He has a rep for walking off the course when things go badly on top of that.

True two wrongs don't make a right and the pro shop should have been asked. I'd prefer to be a member where the first wrong is committed regularly than the second one. The second one is a deal breaker for me as regards membership of a club.

FixdePitchmark · 08-03-2012 10:13AM

This thread has helped me a lot.

I would have been a lad looking to join a course but would have reservations.

I know how to get around a course without holding anybody up, if you see a massive gap in a time sheet or on the course and can't go out it is just mad. And more so if you are a 1 ball or 2 ball.

I would be inclined to ask a pro or have a good relationship with him as they deserve respect IMO.

Are most clubs this ???? I don't know I guess i'm saying hassle. Also the stuff on here about hcaps is a real eye opener too. My idea of a handicap is to be as low as you can be.

There is so many other ways these days to play golf in a fun environment. People will say , oh you will miss the competition , from my reading, it seems to bring out the worst in people.

I'd imagine it is a tiny group of people causing problems, but a small group can ruin it for all.

It is kind of funny, it sounds like a bit of a political power struggle, with nothing at stake. All these grumps going around ruling their little plot. Gordon Brown.

Redzah · 08-03-2012 10:32AM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

This thread has helped me a lot.

I would have been a lad looking to join a course but would have reservations.

I know how to get around a course without holding anybody up, if you see a massive gap in a time sheet or on the course and can't go out it is just mad. And more so if you are a 1 ball or 2 ball.

I would be inclined to ask a pro or have a good relationship with him as they deserve respect IMO.

Are most clubs this ???? I don't know I guess i'm saying hassle. Also the stuff on here about hcaps is a real eye opener too. My idea of a handicap is to be as low as you can be.

There is so many other ways these days to play golf in a fun environment. People will say , oh you will miss the competition , from my reading, it seems to bring out the worse in people.

I'd imagine it is a tiny group of people causing problems, but a small group can ruin it for all.

It is kind of funny, it sounds like a bit of a political power struggle, with nothing at stake. All these grumps going around ruling their little plot. Gordon Brown.

Fixed, I joined Druids Heath this year as i moved up from the country last year (limerick city kiiiiiddddd!!!!) and i've met many of the members in my 2 months there already. I can safely say they are a sound bunch of lads and I have not met any there who would fit into the persona I have coined 'the grump'. Get your ass down here and join and we'll split the referral bonus between us and go on the lash with it. There's def certain clubs to stay away from who have more of 'the grumps' than others but once u learn to ignore these people, you'll enjoy your golf. Joining a club is well worth it in my opinion as the weekly competitive element is fun and interclub golf is a good test of ability under pressure as well regular banter with members, practice facilities etc.

FixdePitchmark · 08-03-2012 10:48AM

Redzah wrote: »

Fixed, I joined Druids Heath this year as i moved up from the country last year (limerick city kiiiiiddddd!!!!) and i've met many of the members in my 2 months there already. I can safely say they are a sound bunch of lads and I have not met any there who would fit into the persona I have coined 'the grump'. Get your ass down here and join and we'll split the referral bonus between us and go on the lash with it. There's def certain clubs to stay away from who have more of 'the grumps' than others but once u learn to ignore these people, you'll enjoy your golf. Joining a club is well worth it in my opinion as the weekly competitive element is fun and interclub golf is a good test of ability under pressure as well regular banter with members, practice facilities etc.

Redzah I'd say your well able to be a "grump"

. Couldn't play your greens

, mad course.

What is a lad from Limerick doing playing golf anyway, hurling first. Rugby 4th then golf. I forgot Road Bowling.

I wonder is the problems we talk about here more prevalent in Dublin ? / Dublin areas. I wonder did they get worse in the celtic tiger years or were they always the same ?

Again, I'm not in a club, but it is lads in clubs who have raised the most eye opening stuff. I mean that case in the high court sums it up.

A lad in his late 60s who I play golf with (off 4). Told me it can be the working class lads who are the worse snobs in a club. I know it is a generalisation. But there was an element of Nouveau Riche going around. You even had lads using up their own arse French expresions.

PhilipMarlowe · 08-03-2012 10:56AM

Largely, you can associate with whomever you want to. Sometimes you have to suffer people but as a rule, life is good.
Not joining a club for fear you might encounter an arsehole is akin to not working because you would only have to pay tax. Join a club and associate with people whose company you enjoy. Or not. Enjoy the game either way but it's more relevant when it's competitive IMO.
The odd time you have to deal with someone who grates on you then let it be water off a duck's back (same as you would in 'real life').

FixdePitchmark · 08-03-2012 11:00AM

PhilipMarlowe wrote: »

Largely, you can associate with whomever you want to. Sometimes you have to suffer people but as a rule, life is good.
Not joining a club for fear you might encounter an arsehole is akin to not working because you would only have to pay tax. Join a club and associate with people whose company you enjoy. Or not. Enjoy the game either way but it's more relevant when it's competitive IMO.
The odd time you have to deal with someone who grates on you then let it be water off a duck's back (same as you would in 'real life').

Quack, Quack.

Redzah · 08-03-2012 11:03AM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Redzah I'd say your well able to be a "grump" . Couldn't play your greens , mad course.

What is a lad from Limerick doing playing golf anyway, hurling first. Rugby 4th then golf. I forgot Road Bowling.

I wonder is the problems we talk about here more prevalent in Dublin ? / Dublin areas. I wonder did they get worse in the celtic tiger years or were they always the same ?

Again, I'm not in a club, but it is lads in clubs who have raised the most eye opening stuff. I mean that case in the high court sums it up.

A lad in his late 60s who I play golf with (off 4). Told me it can be the working class lads who are the worse snobs in a club. I know it is a generalisation. But there was an element of Nouveau Riche going around. You even had lads using up their own arse French expresions.

Ah pitchmark, I wouldn't know the slightest about being grumpy. I'll leave that to Greebo and his supporters. Our greens will bring on your game immensely and provide u with an exquisite touch, best greens in Ireland once they don't speed them up too much where it becomes unfair.

Golf and rugby were my sports growing up, never been on a hurling field in my life and the 1st time i was at Croker was to watch Ireland V England in the 6 nations.

While the snobbery may be more prevalent in Dublin, the same grumpy attitude exists country wide in the more established clubs. I was a member of a very established limerick club with very nice members but there was a couple there who acted the way i've spoken about. I think it probably got worse in the celtic tiger as the more money these grumps made the more power they felt they gained but i suppose this attiude has prob been around a while.

Ya i'd agree to a certain extent on working class acting this way as 1. They are trying to act like this to fit in with the upper echelons of society and 2. They feel a devine right to enforce the law as they have paid membership fees even though there is a committee for this purpose.

golfwallah · 08-03-2012 11:05AM

A golf club is a cross-section of any community, IMO. Most people are friendly, regular folk who just want to get on with their lives.

Sure, like any community, you’ll find a few grumps / bullies, whose outspoken views are usually in the minority but tend to be heard more often than those of the majority, most of whom don’t agree with them but want to avoid the hassle of confrontation.

FDP, you appear to be a smart guy and ways can be found to handle these people, politely and firmly, particularly if you know enough about the facts of the situation to counter the “wisdom” of their own small circles.

Golf clubs need new members. Those that are prepared to get involved and help out are even more welcome.

Potential new members need a club that they can feel comfortable in and, nowadays, that they can afford.

You appear to have done a lot of homework, so why not take the plunge and join a club that ticks most boxes for you in terms of travelling time, price, course layout, financial viability, clubhouse, friendliness of members, etc.

Kid Charlemagne · 08-03-2012 11:10AM

FDP, I can only second everything Redzah said.
I joined my first club in 2011 and moved to a new one in 2012 (moved to a higher quality track - that was the only factor dictating my move).

I can say 100% that the general atmosphere (both tracks) is very friendly and decent. (i didnt know a sinner going into either)
Bear in mind i only took up golf around the end of 2010 so was and to an extent still am - rubbish. Nonetheless I have never had 1 bad experience on a course with anyone trying to act the bully/snob/little hitler, most people are very friendly polite and encouraging of eachother.

Bear in mind I probably accidentally made a few faux pas on the etiquette front, as well as would have had a generous share of triple bogeys etc - yet never heard the slightest murmur of disapproval at all.

So dont use this thread as a means to justify not joining a club. A lad like you that loves his golf as much as you do would absolutely love the craic of being in a club. As soon as you do youll ask yourself why you didnt ages ago.

FixdePitchmark · 08-03-2012 11:52AM

golfwallah wrote: »

A golf club is a cross-section of any community, IMO. Most people are friendly, regular folk who just want to get on with their lives.

Sure, like any community, you’ll find a few grumps / bullies, whose outspoken views are usually in the minority but tend to be heard more often than those of the majority, most of whom don’t agree with them but want to avoid the hassle of confrontation.

FDP, you appear to be a smart guy and ways can be found to handle these people, politely and firmly, particularly if you know enough about the facts of the situation to counter the “wisdom” of their own small circles.

Golf clubs need new members. Those that are prepared to get involved and help out are even more welcome.

Potential new members need a club that they can feel comfortable in and, nowadays, that they can afford.

You appear to have done a lot of homework, so why not take the plunge and join a club that ticks most boxes for you in terms of travelling time, price, course layout, financial viability, clubhouse, friendliness of members, etc.

I could get a ban for off thread. Lol.

Fair play to you on your membership comparator thread. I would not like to over exaggerate the influence of boards, but I do look at that thread and think that it could change club policy when it is on public display how daft some of the prices are. But I guess only a small % of the golfing community are on here.

Perhaps my experience of clubs is twisted, I tend to play some of the more formal ones and the front of house in these places tends to be even more formal. It is their job, but some are there too long and have forgot the old Irish Welcome. I guess in fairness to them they are paid poorly? and have to put with with a fair few "!"£$£"£".

The more formal clubs look Labour Intensive, I don't know how they keep the doors open and can understand "Hello Money".

I've had some silly things said to me like.

"Are you on your own". I booked it last night as a 1 ball as option available.
"There is a comp on". Your tee times were free for 90 mins online. I picked the biggest gap.

"We don't look for members at this club, we invite people".

"You can't get a drink for the course here".

"A pencil is 50 p".

Then on the course you see lads not repairing pitch marks or replacing divots or using sand bags or shouting "fore".

Also, I've had unanswered emails and membership enquiries treated like a Dan Brown novel. All codes and uncertainty and mystery.

There seems to be a false facade and weak foundations in some of these places.

Anyway , I'm enjoying my little journey , I've played about 20 courses in 6 months.

If the truth be known, I don't think this formality thing rests well with most Irish people. They are sound behind the facade. I guess I can see through it.

Nobody can take away a love of a game, that is you, the place and nothing else for me. The right friend at the right time too.

GreeBo · 08-03-2012 12:00PM

Back on topic please. The love in can happen somewhere else.

Redzah · 16-05-2012 12:34PM

Thought this was the most apt place to post my satisfaction with my club.

There is a members comp on saturday which is a team of 4 event. However, it was my bday this week and i want to play with friends who are non-members on Sat morning so i can then catch all the sport and have drinks etc during the day time. The time I wished to book is during the members comp time but it appears that this competition will not fill up as its now weds and the comp is saturday. The pro shop attendant said he has to run it by the director of golf who then said that its no problem as the slots will not fill. This is how a golf club should be run, with common sense being used in this situation. If there was only 1 or 2 slots free then I would've fully accepted a no response but in this situation the director of golf made the right call.

stringy · 16-05-2012 12:43PM

Agreed.

I played a fourball match last sunday, but we played in the middle of the competition. The course has 27 holes so we could've played on a the free 9 and then on one of the other 9s, but the staff member suggested we play during the comp, as it would be the quickest with less hold ups. He was dead right. It also eft the other 9 free for guys with green fees who could play at their leisure and not hold up or be bothered by the members and vice versa, and the club could use the tee time for revenue. everyone's a winner.

Common sense.

AldilaMan · 16-05-2012 12:48PM

Redzah wrote: »

Thought this was the most apt place to post my satisfaction with my club.

There is a members comp on saturday which is a team of 4 event. However, it was my bday this week and i want to play with friends who are non-members on Sat morning so i can then catch all the sport and have drinks etc during the day time. The time I wished to book is during the members comp time but it appears that this competition will not fill up as its now weds and the comp is saturday. The pro shop attendant said he has to run it by the director of golf who then said that its no problem as the slots will not fill. This is how a golf club should be run, with common sense being used in this situation. If there was only 1 or 2 slots free then I would've fully accepted a no response but in this situation the director of golf made the right call.

No offence but these titles make me laugh.

playing during a comp..??

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