playing during a comp..??

gymman39

my friend is a full member of a club in the midlands and went out yesterday with a friend to play 9 holes before the rugby.
He knew there was a comp on yesterday and told his friend that if there was a crowd around they would just head home..
When arriving there was nobody on the first tee and they headed out and teed off and when leaving the tee box they were challanged by a guy about playing during a comp.
My friend got annoyed as in the current climate he felt people should be made feel welcome in clubs and not brought to task.He knows that probably by the letter of the law in should not have teed off but the nearest group were on the 3rd and when he got to the 3rd tee box nobody had left the 1st so there was plenty of room...

What do u guys think???

Redzah

gymman39 wrote: »

my friend is a full member of a club in the midlands and went out yesterday with a friend to play 9 holes before the rugby.
He knew there was a comp on yesterday and told his friend that if there was a crowd around they would just head home..
When arriving there was nobody on the first tee and they headed out and teed off and when leaving the tee box they were challanged by a guy about playing during a comp.
My friend got annoyed as in the current climate he felt people should be made feel welcome in clubs and not brought to task.He knows that probably by the letter of the law in should not have teed off but the nearest group were on the 3rd and when he got to the 3rd tee box nobody had left the 1st so there was plenty of room...

What do u guys think???

If there was plenty of room and nobody was on the timesheet to play at that time then the guy who challenged your friend was out of order and i wouldn't be long telling him where to go, there's always guys like this at golf clubs who love nothing more than to cause a fuss.

Can i ask if you are younger members as this type of behaviour is often directed at younger members of clubs with some of the older members feeling the need to put manners on you etc.

Keano

Redzah wrote: »

If there was plenty of room and nobody was on the timesheet to play at that time then the guy who challenged your friend was out of order and i wouldn't be long telling him where to go, there's always guys like this at golf clubs who love nothing more than to cause a fuss.

Can i ask if you are younger members as this type of behaviour is often directed at younger members of clubs with some of the older members feeling the need to put manners on you etc.

This. Golf will never move on while people like this occupy clubs

gymman39

my friend is 37 but the lad he was with is a junior member and his friends son but a class little golfer and would not hold up play..he was annoyed with the guys attitude as clubs are struggling with numbers at the moment and would not encourage anyone to join with that carry on

m r c

It would seem like the guy that challenged ye was wrong but I'd always let someone know I was going out it just saves all that messing and ego stuff. Only a handful of times have I ever had to wait more than 15 minutes but anytime I'm challenged I've a response for them.

charlieIRL

gymman39 wrote: »

my friend is a full member of a club in the midlands and went out yesterday with a friend to play 9 holes before the rugby.
He knew there was a comp on yesterday and told his friend that if there was a crowd around they would just head home..
When arriving there was nobody on the first tee and they headed out and teed off and when leaving the tee box they were challanged by a guy about playing during a comp.
My friend got annoyed as in the current climate he felt people should be made feel welcome in clubs and not brought to task.He knows that probably by the letter of the law in should not have teed off but the nearest group were on the 3rd and when he got to the 3rd tee box nobody had left the 1st so there was plenty of room...

What do u guys think???

did his friend not have to go to the pro shop to pay his green fees before heading out? If so he should have been told there about the competition and whether there was a free slot on timesheet or not.

I have a feeling i know where this is too but please don't mention it here.

gymman39

charlie both were members of the club..they just were playing 9 holes before the rugby and not playing in the comp..sorry if that was not made clear

charlieIRL

gymman39 wrote: »

charlie both were members of the club..they just were playing 9 holes before the rugby and not playing in the comp..sorry if that was not made clear

ahh right, sorry. Understand you now.

gymman39

so charlie where do u think this is ha ha ..

Redzah

gymman39 wrote: »

my friend is 37 but the lad he was with is a junior member and his friends son but a class little golfer and would not hold up play..he was annoyed with the guys attitude as clubs are struggling with numbers at the moment and would not encourage anyone to join with that carry on

My guess is it was the fact that it was a junior member with him was the problem. As I said, there is a certain type in individuals in golf clubs that love nothing more than to cause a fuss and bully around the juniors. These guys go to great extremes such as speeding up their play just to catch up with a bunch of juniors so that they can then demand to play through as they have full rights.

I remember in my old club myself and my 2 friends were playing on a thursday (techincally not allowed play on a thursday) as the course was quiet and after around 6 holes we bumped into the local grump who was the next group back on the 1st green (5 holes away) who told us we were not allowed to play and to get off. We walked off and came back a few hours later and hit off the first again only to see the same grump walking up 18 and catching us red handed. This time i told him to report me if he has such and issue with it and i played on.

Bearing in mind that the course was free and our handicaps were 2, 2 and 4 (but we were all under 18) you'd have thought that this bloke would've layed off. Anyways same fcuker was nice as pie the next year when all 3 of us were representing the senior team but the shoe was on the other foot when i asked him why his attitude had changed so much since the last year as i was still a junior with no rights. Shocked and bamboozled he walked away, alsolutely fuming no doubt and looking for the next junior to give out to.

Golf clubs don't need these types of people and as long as the juniors show good etiquette and the course is free and they let full members through when needed then these guys need to cop on and be reprimanded

gymman39

Redzah i agree with you and thats why i posted this up here

BoardsMember

Redzah wrote: »

Bearing in mind that the course was free and our handicaps were 2, 2 and 4 (but we were all under 18) you'd have thought that this bloke would've layed off.

This is always a difficult one, the club grumps are all about the rules. Sometimes it is based on the "give them an inch and they take a mile", for example, if you happen to finish lectures on Thursdays at 11.30am and make a habit of playing at 12, week in week out. What happens when it is a little busier than usual, the chances are you'll hang around and go out anyhow.

I've come from being a junior member in my place, and been the subject of quite a bit of ignorance and bullying, and I'm always now supportive of juniors, they're the lifeblood of the club. But it is important to protect the rights of the members, and the rules of the club too. In our place, it's usually only the juniors you'll see having flop shot competitions onto the practise green, which is surrounded by Chipping Only! signs, or hitting multiple wedges into greens - there is definitely a culture of trying to get away with things. I dont see the same behaviour from the members, and this does not help their lot.

JD Dublin

I do think the guys should have checked in the Pro Shop before teeing off, just to check that there was a free slot on the timesheet. If there was a free slot, then I think they are entitled to play away, and if challenged can always say 'Take it up with the pro'. Did they not do that? If so then they were always open to challenge.

Every time I play in a members club there is someone throwing their weight around. Unless the place is abandoned, someone always feels the need to have a word with me. I'm too slow, too fast, whatever. Always, always, always some quiet word to try to put manners on me.

If I am at my own club then I ignore it ( I'm a clubhouse member - don't want to rock the boat etc.) If I'm out with someone else at their club, I keep schtum for fear of embarrassing whoever I'm with.

I think posters that make excuses for this sort of behaviour have to accept that it's not just the local grump. It's a sizable minority. BTW I'm 47 so can't be mistaken for a junior member.

My own theory is that golf fees are so high that people resent paying them, and jealously guard whatever rights it gives them. But I wouldn't join the club I'm a clubhouse member of now - I wouldn't give these grumpy fcukers the satisfaction.

Mind you, I partially blame the other players these people are with. The grump is usually out with a few others - is it time for the others, the silent majority to say 'Shut up, and play golf' instead of letting these grumpy gobdaws ruin someone's day out?

'Boards Member', if you don't mind let the rest of us know, what drove you to put up with the bullying when you were a junior member? And do you speak out against these bullies when they throw their weight around with visitors / juniors etc?

Dtoffee

Competition time is for compeditors only, casual golf should not be allowed as they are changing the course by playing. Divots, bunkers, sand on greens, pitchmarks, footprints are all a result of playing the game and in a competition only entrants have the right to play the course.

Pay the Competition Fee and play your nine holes by all means BUT dont open a floodgate where every time theres a gap on the sheet you have casual golfers nipping out .......... not everyone rakes bunkers, repairs divots and obeys etiquette. By allowing casual golfers during competition time, you are opening a huge can of worms and all sorts of issues can arise. I dont agree with bullies shouting out rules at other members, but I would expect a quiet word with the competition secretary to ensure there is a clear decision regards who is entitled to play on the course during competition time.

For me, competition tee times are only for compeditiors and I dont care if theres a 20 minute gap .... I think the term is 'casual golfers have no standing on a golf course during competition time', you do not want to find yourself at a disadvantage due to the actions of casual golfers ahead of you.

Redzah

Dtoffee wrote: »

Competition time is for compeditors only, casual golf should not be allowed as they are changing the course by playing. Divots, bunkers, sand on greens, pitchmarks, footprints are all a result of playing the game and in a competition only entrants have the right to play the course.

Pay the Competition Fee and play your nine holes by all means BUT dont open a floodgate where every time theres a gap on the sheet you have casual golfers nipping out .......... not everyone rakes bunkers, repairs divots and obeys etiquette. By allowing casual golfers during competition time, you are opening a huge can of worms and all sorts of issues can arise. I dont agree with bullies shouting out rules at other members, but I would expect a quiet word with the competition secretary to ensure there is a clear decision regards who is entitled to play on the course during competition time.

For me, competition tee times are only for compeditiors and I dont care if theres a 20 minute gap .... I think the term is 'casual golfers have no standing on a golf course during competition time', you do not want to find yourself at a disadvantage due to the actions of casual golfers ahead of you.

Ah come on, as if a few casual golfers playing in between what in this case was a substantial gap puts anybody who goes off behind them at a disadvantage. Raking bunkers, repairing divots and obeying etiquette is a whole different issue and should be dealt with accordingly but these guys were playing in a substantial gap holding up nobody and would not affect any guys that were teeing off after them from what I gather. I don't expect these guys to be left out if their is only 1 time gap on the competition sheet but the substantial gap the OP spoke about is different and common sense needs to be exercised in this case.

Your views are exactly those of the grumps i speak about who walk around with a chip on their shoulder. I bet anytime your ball goes into a divot or an unraked bunker and the next group who are 5 holes ahead not in the competition it must send u bananas. Consider that it could well be a group 9 holes ahead in the competition who did not rake the bunker etc. Poor etiquette is poor etiquette whether in the comp or not but common sense needs to be exercised in the case of what the OP has said and there is not enough of it around in golf clubs these days.

Loire

There's a very easy solution to this. Ask whoever is at the proshop if you can go out. Then tell Mr Grumpy that so-and-so in the proshop told you you were able to play...leave it up to the proshop to decide who can/cannot play.

BoardsMember

Loire wrote: »

There's a very easy solution to this. Ask whoever is at the proshop if you can go out. Then tell Mr Grumpy that so-and-so in the proshop told you you were able to play...leave it up to the proshop to decide who can/cannot play.

This is exactly right. But the pro shop should be basing their decisions on the rules & bye laws of the club, so in effect, you end up with a result that is the one that people are giving out about, so your advice may not be well received! Personally, I have no problem with it.

Redzah

BoardsMember wrote: »

This is exactly right. But the pro shop should be basing their decisions on the rules & bye laws of the club, so in effect, you end up with a result that is the one that people are giving out about, so your advice may not be well received! Personally, I have no problem with it.

Gives a dilemma to the guy in the pro shop though and its the grumps who put him in this sticky situation. Example being as follows;

Last competition group tee'd off at 11:30 AM and the next competition group are scheduled to tee off at 12:30.

A member (not a well known member but a full member nontheless) and his child (juvenille member) come up at 11:45am and ask if they can get out.

In the above instance, the guy in the pro shop will have the grumps voice ringing in his ears telling him no but on the other hand will be thinking common sense says their is plenty of time for these guys to enjoy a round and use what they paid for (i.e. membership of a golf course). What should he do?

IMO, common sense should def prevail here and the member should be let out. Another point is that as in the above example the member is not as well known it does not help his case. If he were a committee member of a member who is active in the club their would seldom be any issue caused which is also wrong.

matt-dublin

Dtoffee = "That Guy"

L.O.F.T

gymman39 wrote: »

What do u guys think???

What would have solved all the problems was checking in at the Pro-shop first to see was it OK to play nine.
Instead they arrived and checked that the tee was clear and just teed off. If they had checked in with the Pro-shop first they could have told the uppity member in question that they had booked in and were told it was OK to play. It's simple manners to book in. To just arrive and tee off gives the impression, whether right or wrong that they couldn't careless about any comps or time sheet or Pro-shop.

Kace

While we're on the topic - do all of your courses have that rule where you need to check in with the pro-shop in advance of playing, or are some more lax ?

Mine does, however if I am not playing in the weekend competition I sometimes go down close to the first tee time, check in with pro-shop and tee off about 8 holes ahead - 'ducking in' ahead of competition groups.

They allow us to do this - however, obviously I would be gone like a shot if anyone behind was close to catching up with me.

BoardsMember

Redzah wrote: »

Gives a dilemma to the guy in the pro shop though

Where's the dilemma? He knows the rules, he's employed by the club to see that they are followed. The problem with not applying the rules is not in scenarious outlined here, it is that if you dont go by the rule all the time then people flaunt them to suit themselves, even when doing so impacts on others. Clubs need rules, and their rules need to be applied and observed. I know I'm sounding like "one of theem", but I'm ok with that. The emphasis has to be on getting the rules right in the first place. You could add to the rules to say "at the discretion of the professional, members can be allowed to play casual golf during competition time provided...." - this covers all scenarios nicely.

gymman39

LOFT just one clarification ...it was not me this happened to it was a friend of mine

GreeBo

Redzah wrote: »

I remember in my old club myself and my 2 friends were playing on a thursday (techincally not allowed play on a thursday) as the course was quiet and after around 6 holes we bumped into the local grump who was the next group back on the 1st green (5 holes away) who told us we were not allowed to play and to get off. We walked off and came back a few hours later and hit off the first again only to see the same grump walking up 18 and catching us red handed. This time i told him to report me if he has such and issue with it and i played on.

So you just decided to break the rules to suit yourself and then when challenged by a member attempting to uphold the rules you ignored him?
And you think he is in the wrong?

I dont care if your handicap is +10, if you are not allowed to play then you are not allowed to play. If you have a problem with it, bring it up at the AGM.

Too many people in this world think that rules dont apply to them, sure its only me, what harm is it doing?
These are the same people who block lanes of traffic as they run into the shops, dont pay tv licences etc etc.

Obey the rules or leave the club.

gymman39

hey are you accusing a board member of not paying his tv license???

Redzah

GreeBo wrote: »

So you just decided to break the rules to suit yourself and then when challenged by a member attempting to uphold the rules you ignored him?
And you think he is in the wrong?

I dont care if your handicap is +10, if you are not allowed to play then you are not allowed to play. If you have a problem with it, bring it up at the AGM.

Too many people in this world think that rules dont apply to them, sure its only me, what harm is it doing?
These are the same people who block lanes of traffic as they run into the shops, dont pay tv licences etc etc.

Obey the rules or leave the club.

Greebo, i choose not to obey stupid rules like this and exercise common sense. The course was completely empty and we had a look at the timesheet which said next group wasn't for an hour and a bit. Said it to the guy in the pro shop and he said he saw nothing but basically we couldn't use him as any back up etc. (basically he exercised common sense).

Yes i very much think that the local grump was wrong, as he had nothing to gain from acting the way he did apart from gaining a sense of power over a juvenile member just trying to improve his game. Please bear in mind we demonstated course etiquette and were nowhere near any other group.

I cannot bring this up at the AGM as i had no voting rights as a juvenile member. So basically, I told him that if he had such a problem with it then to report me. I called his bluff and he didn't as he would only embarrass himself based on the facts of the case;

General Manager (GM): I understand Mr. Grumpy and i know they shouldn't be playing, i'll have a word with them when they come in

GM: We they holding u up as well

Grumpy: No they were 5 holes ahead

GM: Were they not repair pitchmarks etc. or hitting multiple balls into the green?

Grumpy: No, they were just playing

GM: We they hitting down in front of the group in front?

Grumpy: No there was nobody ahead of them (feeling slightly more red faced)

Then what the fcuk is the problem. Its a substance over form arguement here for me with common sense being the substance and the rules being the form.

Too many rulebookies on here.

Greebo u know me too well, although the ol parking fines have come down in the last year, the ol cut backs of the patrol units has been great

harpsman

What about a situation where the competition is on all day Sat, tee chocca 8-12 then more or less deserted for 3 hours?
Should casual golfers be banned all day saturday,even when the course is deserted?

On issue of checking in at pro shop what happens if your club doesnt have one?

Reminds me of when I was a "member" in Hollystown few years ago. tried to tee off one Fri eve at about 7 o clock when barman came running out and told me I had to check in at desk or bar;otherwise my GUI insurance not valid!

charlieIRL

harpsman wrote: »

What about a situation where the competition is on all day Sat, tee chocca 8-12 then more or less deserted for 3 hours?
Should casual golfers be banned all day saturday,even when the course is deserted?

On issue of checking in at pro shop what happens if your club doesnt have one?

Reminds me of when I was a "member" in Hollystown few years ago. tried to tee off one Fri eve at about 7 o clock when barman came running out and told me I had to check in at desk or bar;otherwise my GUI insurance not valid!

At my club and the few local ones the timesheet is reserved for competitions from approx. 9:00 - 12:30 or so depending on demand. You are free to play outside those times. You also had to check-in in the pro shop before you went out as well.

harpsman

That sounds sensible.My club bit open ended

Kid Charlemagne

GreeBo wrote: »

Too many people in this world think that rules dont apply to them, sure its only me, what harm is it doing?

Sorry GreeBo but what harm were they doing?
Like are you saying people should follow rules for rules sake even if the rule doesnt serve any useful purpose?

pistolpetes11

Blessington Lakes would always try fit you out in a solt in the time sheet , competition or not .


Another year or two and they will be begging for players , more opens that you can shake a stick at !

I ended up deciding with a distance membership in Cradockstown as I am playing so many society outings this as it finically makes the most sense as more often than not Il be playing else where every other weekend.

Anatom

The Grump should have been a bit more gracious and a lot more self-aware. If he and his little group are five holes behind anyone - member or visitor, senior or juvenile, in competition or out - he should get a bit of perspective and common sense.

The reason he pulled you up is because he's a grump and because you were a juvenile at the time. You should have stood up to him and told him, politely of course, where to go. You definitely should not have walked off.

Yes, of course there are rules and rules are there for the good of all members of a club, but that's what you're talking about - members of a club, the same club. You should be looking out for each other, and older members should be mindful of allowing their own club's young talent to develop. They may well need it in the future, especially now with clubs fighting to hold on to and attract new members.

BoardsMember

It's quite simple. Greebo is right. Rules must be obeyed.

If there is a problem being highlighted here, it is that there is a problem with the rules.

It's quite an Irish approach to suggest that because the rule is not as good as it should be, it is ok to break it. You'll quickly end up with a culture of everyone evaluating how good or bad the rule is, before deciding whether to obey it.

If people cant see this, they must not be trying hard enough, it really is quite simple. The specific examples posted all highlight issues that should be addresses, namely representation of non-voting member issues at the AGM, a more flexible approach to course access based on the say-so of the professional etc etc.

It's all very do-able, but it has to be done with the rules in mind. I'm not saying the alternative is outright anarchy, but when rules are broken, people see rules being broken, and learn that it's ok to break rules. It's black and white. Work on getting the rules right. If you dont like the rules, and arent prepared to work towards better rules, then find another club.

GreeBo

^ What he said.

Anatom

BoardsMember, its very unusual to see GreeBo's views being endorsed by anyone ^.

I do take your point though, but hard cases make bad law, as the saying goes. Just because its in the rules doesn't mean that when situations allow, those rules shouldn't be made to be more flexible - for the benefit of the club's own members.

GreeBo

Redzah wrote: »

Greebo, i choose not to obey stupid rules like this and exercise common sense. The course was completely empty and we had a look at the timesheet which said next group wasn't for an hour and a bit. Said it to the guy in the pro shop and he said he saw nothing but basically we couldn't use him as any back up etc. (basically he exercised common sense).

But dont you see that its not for you to decide what rules to obey and what not to obey?

Redzah wrote: »

Yes i very much think that the local grump was wrong, as he had nothing to gain from acting the way he did apart from gaining a sense of power over a juvenile member just trying to improve his game. Please bear in mind we demonstated course etiquette and were nowhere near any other group.

Erm, he was upholding the rules of YOUR club. Sense of power doesnt come into it. And you were most definitely NOT demonstrating course etiquette, you were playing when you were not allowed!

Redzah wrote: »

I cannot bring this up at the AGM as i had no voting rights as a juvenile member. So basically, I told him that if he had such a problem with it then to report me. I called his bluff and he didn't as he would only embarrass himself based on the facts of the case;

Again, you demonstrated fabulous etiquette. Perhaps the reason juveniles are not allowed to play at those times or vote is because some of them are very immature and act like petulant little boys when they cant do what they want?

Redzah wrote: »

Then what the fcuk is the problem. Its a substance over form arguement here for me with common sense being the substance and the rules being the form.

Common sense cannot be applied to the common people. Thats why we have rules. Sure lots of 16 year olds can drive perfectly well, but the law doesnt let them and thats that.


To be perfectly honest you seem to have been one of those talented (golfwise) juveniles who believes that all the older members who perhaps are not as good golfers should just "get over themselves" and accept that you are the lifeblood of the club blah blah blah.

Its their club much more than yours mate. You arent even paying a full sub!
You are benefiting from their hard cash over the last X years and to be brutally honest, you need to respect that, and the rules of THEIR club.

BoardsMember

Anatom wrote: »

BoardsMember, its very unusual to see GreeBo's views being endorsed by anyone ^.

I hadn't realised that

Anatom wrote: »

I do take your point though, but hard cases make bad law, as the saying goes. Just because its in the rules doesn't mean that when situations allow, those rules shouldn't be made to be more flexible - for the benefit of the club's own members.

That's exactly my point, where there is a bad or unfair rule you change the rule.

blackwaterfish

gymman39 wrote: »

my friend is a full member of a club in the midlands and went out yesterday with a friend to play 9 holes before the rugby.
He knew there was a comp on yesterday and told his friend that if there was a crowd around they would just head home..
When arriving there was nobody on the first tee and they headed out and teed off and when leaving the tee box they were challanged by a guy about playing during a comp.
My friend got annoyed as in the current climate he felt people should be made feel welcome in clubs and not brought to task.He knows that probably by the letter of the law in should not have teed off but the nearest group were on the 3rd and when he got to the 3rd tee box nobody had left the 1st so there was plenty of room...

What do u guys think???

you were obviously wearing jeans.

:pac:

Dtoffee

Redzah wrote: »

Ah come on, as if a few casual golfers playing in between what in this case was a substantial gap puts anybody who goes off behind them at a disadvantage. Raking bunkers, repairing divots and obeying etiquette is a whole different issue and should be dealt with accordingly but these guys were playing in a substantial gap holding up nobody and would not affect any guys that were teeing off after them from what I gather. I don't expect these guys to be left out if their is only 1 time gap on the competition sheet but the substantial gap the OP spoke about is different and common sense needs to be exercised in this case.

Your views are exactly those of the grumps i speak about who walk around with a chip on their shoulder. I bet anytime your ball goes into a divot or an unraked bunker and the next group who are 5 holes ahead not in the competition it must send u bananas. Consider that it could well be a group 9 holes ahead in the competition who did not rake the bunker etc. Poor etiquette is poor etiquette whether in the comp or not but common sense needs to be exercised in the case of what the OP has said and there is not enough of it around in golf clubs these days.

Common sense is you respect the rules of golf and your club and if that means you cant nip out and play nine holes during competition time, then you respect it. If you allow casual golfers out when theres a gap in the tee times, then you are opening the door for everyone to do the same week in wek out and soon enough you will have issues. Respect the rules and respect your fellow golfers, playing casual golf without permission during a competition is not acceptable in my old fashioned grumpy view...... maybe have a look at the chip on your own shoulder when it comes to rules and bending them under the guise of common sense.

BraveDonut

Its like all rules in golf - some of them at first glance appear to be a bit silly and over the top. It's only when you think about not implementing them exactly according to the rule book where the problems occur. People try to stretch them and take advantage which then leads to blatant disregard.
The rule in question may not suit the person it is affecting right at that time, but it has been added to the book of rules to cover the majority of scenarios......

Redzah

GreeBo wrote: »

But dont you see that its not for you to decide what rules to obey and what not to obey?


Erm, he was upholding the rules of YOUR club. Sense of power doesnt come into it. And you were most definitely NOT demonstrating course etiquette, you were playing when you were not allowed!

Again, you demonstrated fabulous etiquette. Perhaps the reason juveniles are not allowed to play at those times or vote is because some of them are very immature and act like petulant little boys when they cant do what they want?



Common sense cannot be applied to the common people. Thats why we have rules. Sure lots of 16 year olds can drive perfectly well, but the law doesnt let them and thats that.


To be perfectly honest you seem to have been one of those talented (golfwise) juveniles who believes that all the older members who perhaps are not as good golfers should just "get over themselves" and accept that you are the lifeblood of the club blah blah blah.

Its their club much more than yours mate. You arent even paying a full sub!
You are benefiting from their hard cash over the last X years and to be brutally honest, you need to respect that, and the rules of THEIR club.

But Greebo, don't u see that its not up to any old member (not on committee) to enforce the rules of the club as he his on a power trip. Its the committee or GM's job. If we all took the law into our own hands where would our society be today.

You seem to be one of the grumps I am talking about, have a chip on your shoulder if somebody does something u don't like when it should not effect u in the slightest and you most likely try to enforce rules when it is not ur place to.

Most of these grumps fit into a similiar demography i.e. over 40, no kids or kids that don't play golf, usually short in stature under 5'9 so compensate with a big mouth, an average golfer 9+ handicap (very important as i've yet to come accross a cat 1 player who fits all the above and acts like a grump).

Lifeblood of the club is an important factor financially as well as socially for the future of the club and should not be underestimated IMO

FixdePitchmark

Redzah wrote: »

Most of these grumps fit into a similiar demography i.e. over 40, no kids or kids that don't play golf, usually short in stature under 5'9 so compensate with a big mouth, an average golfer 9+ handicap (very important as i've yet to come accross a cat 1 player who fits all the above and acts like a grump).

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::mad::(:o:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

If your below 5'9. That is mad ****.

GreeBo

Redzah wrote: »

But Greebo, don't u see that its not up to any old member (not on committee) to enforce the rules of the club as he his on a power trip. Its the committee or GM's job. If we all took the law into our own hands where would our society be today.

Its a club. Of course its up to each member to enforce the rules of the club. Being on committee has nothing to do with enforcing the rules
The GM runs the business of the club, he doesnt police the rules of the club.
Members vote on rules of their club. As a full member he was perfectly entitled to call you up on breaking the rules. Your handicap doesnt exclude you from the rules young padawan.

Redzah wrote: »

You seem to be one of the grumps I am talking about, have a chip on your shoulder if somebody does something u don't like when it should not effect u in the slightest and you most likely try to enforce rules when it is not ur place to.

You seem to be one of those people who think rules dont apply to them because of your handicap.

Redzah wrote: »

Most of these grumps fit into a similiar demography i.e. over 40, no kids or kids that don't play golf, usually short in stature under 5'9 so compensate with a big mouth, an average golfer 9+ handicap (very important as i've yet to come accross a cat 1 player who fits all the above and acts like a grump).

The farce is strong in this one. :rolleyes:
Refer to my previous comment on the maturity of juveniles.

Redzah wrote: »

Lifeblood of the club is an important factor financially as well as socially for the future of the club and should not be underestimated IMO

Yeah and society needs rules and needs people to obey the rules that society has decided on. Its not golf according to Redzah you know, sorry to burst that bubble.

alfalad

Don't normally post here, but interested in the thread. Would anyone say it to the pro if he decided to nip out for 9 holes when there was a half hour gap in the timesheet of a comp. I have seen it happen, and a well enough known club pro at that.
Would those who feel strongly against the OP feel the same way against the pro?

Rules may be rules but every day in court people who break them are judged not guilty despite having broken them/or it is deemed not worth worrying about.

I don't think anyone would agree with taking one free spot and then holding up the comp, it appears that in this case that was not an issue so a little common sense has to be used. The reason rules cannot be changed to adapt to such situations is common sense has to be usedin most cases.

link_2007

Redzah wrote: »

You seem to be one of the grumps I am talking about, have a chip on your shoulder if somebody does something u don't like when it should not effect u in the slightest and you most likely try to enforce rules when it is not ur place to.

Most of these grumps fit into a similiar demography i.e. over 40, no kids or kids that don't play golf, usually short in stature under 5'9 so compensate with a big mouth, an average golfer 9+ handicap (very important as i've yet to come accross a cat 1 player who fits all the above and acts like a grump).

So from one post by Greebo you have determined his age, height, parental status, golf handicap and emotional disposition.

Do you do lotto numbers?

matt-dublin

@Greebo, its not up to the members to enforce the rule but to inform the club of breach of rules.

the comittee is there to enforce the rules.

We had a similar issue recently with our old captain asking everyone on the coure in the evenings were they memebers and questioning whether they should be on the course or not.

I personally don't think its his position to do that but more out of a safety perspective, if he was to cross someone he shouldn't god knows what the consiquences might be.

If someone has a gripe with what someone else is doing on the course it should be reported to the club and not actioned by members.

Redzah

GreeBo wrote: »

Its a club. Of course its up to each member to enforce the rules of the club. Being on committee has nothing to do with enforcing the rules
The GM runs the business of the club, he doesnt police the rules of the club.
Members vote on rules of their club. As a full member he was perfectly entitled to call you up on breaking the rules. Your handicap doesnt exclude you from the rules young padawan.

You seem to be one of those people who think rules dont apply to them because of your handicap.


The farce is strong in this one. :rolleyes:
Refer to my previous comment on the maturity of juveniles.


Yeah and society needs rules and needs people to obey the rules that society has decided on. Its not golf according to Redzah you know, sorry to burst that bubble.

Greebo, you can't have everyone going around policing the place, thats what a committee are there for IMO not even you old timer have this right.

Say if McGinners rocks up to the grange during a break in the timesheet in the monthly medal and you and the other grumps are the next group teeing off 30 mins after he tees of. Are you going to enforce the law and let this rule breaker know that he's not allowed to play? Didn't think so!!!

I don't think the rules are above me but there are certain times where the rules can be bent when it just makes sense i.e. a huge gap in the timesheet.

My point on the fact that it is rarely a cat 1 golfer who trys to enforce some of this laws limiting juvenilles playing is because they know that it will only bring their game on getting out and playing when they can and as long as they are not getting in the way then it can only be positive for the future of the club and irish golf. You view is short sighted in this regard as all u care about is that it is technically in breach of the rules. A more knowledgeable and less selfish golfer can oversee this rules breach and determine its not harming anybody or anything as there is a big gap in the timesheet.

Greebo, i'm a full member of my current club but would always support the development of juvenilles as I have been there and dealt with your kind previously. I know what it takes to reach a top level through my own experience and through watching colleagues and friends who have played at a higher level than me. I also have seen the barriers in place that prevent this development, and the attitude that you are demonstrating is one of the larger barriers any juvenille should expect to come across.

Redzah

link_2007 wrote: »

So from one post by Greebo you have determined his age, height, parental status, golf handicap and emotional disposition.

Do you do lotto numbers?

4 8 15 16 23 42

Just usually these guys fit a certain demography, not all may apply to Greebo but i'm sure some do.

GreeBo

matt-dublin wrote: »

@Greebo, its not up to the members to enforce the rule but to inform the club of breach of rules.

the comittee is there to enforce the rules.

We had a similar issue recently with our old captain asking everyone on the coure in the evenings were they memebers and questioning whether they should be on the course or not.

I personally don't think its his position to do that but more out of a safety perspective, if he was to cross someone he shouldn't god knows what the consiquences might be.

If someone has a gripe with what someone else is doing on the course it should be reported to the club and not actioned by members.

You say reported to "the club" as if the club is some other entity that doesnt include the members.
In any normal members club, the members are the club. The GM runs the club as a business, the committee are elected to decide on club matters, but every single full member owns the club and has the same rights as every other member regarding "policing" the rules of the club.

blackwaterfish

The correct way to approach this was for the member to approach the OP's friend in a reasonable manner and inform him of the clubs rules during member competitions and say "carry on but be advised for next time". Particularily when it wasnt busy.

sadly, every club is populated to a large extent by personalities, who in situations such as this, have serious anger management issues. theyre out there, we all know them, but things will never change unless the club management themselves advise members to use discretion and an ounce of diplomacy when approaching valuable green fee paying punters - for whatever reason.

matt-dublin

Greebo, policing the rules falls under "club matters"

as redzah said if we lived in a vigalante state things would be completely different.

you've already contradicted your own arguement with the committe and club matters comment.

Every single full member only has an entitlement to a single vote at a general meeting to decide what path the club takes, not to enforce the rules.

Basically they can rat people out, the GM/Proshop should inform the captain/committee of breeches which should be dealt with by committee appropriatly.