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Thought cause hatred and depression.

24

Comments

  • #32
    chin_grin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭chin_grin


    gamgsam wrote: »
    If it works for you, more power to you

    I think this sums it up exactly. What works for one might not work for another. Just wish we could stop belittling one method and put more effort and energy in to finding your own.


  • #33
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    gamgsam wrote: »
    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    What in particular doesn't make sense?

    The part where he claims that an inner silence exists. Also when he says that by analysing a sunset it immediately loses its beauty.

    Throughout the speech he makes huge presuppositions without backing them up at all. In order to follow his logic, you have to accept everything he says as truth. As analogies they are fine but he presents them as rock solid facts. Which they are not.

    That said, he's a good speaker and nice to listen to, but I'm lucky enough to know how to be happy without wasting time on abstract thought like this :)

    If it works for you, more power to you

    Being present works for everyone.

    The key to happiness is the focus of your attention. Your perspective should be the observer of your thoughts and emotions when they arise and not to resist them.


  • #34
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Red21 wrote: »
    ...my girlfriend who i've been with for the last seven years and love very much, finds what Tolle has to say completely meaningless. It's kinda strange.

    Not really, your girlfriend might have discovered that she don't need his mental stuff to prop her up intellectually, emotionally and validate her way of getting through life.
    She is her own person more so and is able to fend for herself without other possible unnecessary rubbish.


  • #35
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    Biggins wrote: »
    Red21 wrote: »
    ...my girlfriend who i've been with for the last seven years and love very much, finds what Tolle has to say completely meaningless. It's kinda strange.

    Not really, your girlfriend might have discovered that she don't need his mental stuff to prop her up intellectually, emotionally and validate her way of getting through life.
    She is her own person more so and is able to fend for herself without other possible unnecessary rubbish.

    You seem to be criticising what Tolle teaches without understanding what he teaches. By definition you can't prop yourself up intellectually by taking on board his teachings.


  • #36
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    ...Your perspective should be the observer of your thoughts and emotions when they arise and not to resist them.
    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    You seem to be criticising what Tolle teaches without understanding what he teaches. By definition you can't prop yourself up intellectually by taking on board his teachings.


    Any chance of speaking in words that make plain sense instead of talking in proverbial riddles?
    What the fcuk are you on about?

    ...But for alone every six months, you can learn more and sound like your talking in riddles too!
    https://www.eckharttolletv.com/join/

    ...After you have bought the DVD's, the books and then subscribed to other material also!
    Get your checkbook out folks!
    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    Bla... bla... ...thoughts and emotions when they arise and not to resist them.

    ...So his teachings have thought you that when you get the emotion to kill, you should just go out and go it?

    Stop listening to this daft stuff and go out and get a life!


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  • #37
    Red21
    Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Red21


    Biggins wrote: »
    Not really, your girlfriend might have discovered that she don't need his mental stuff to prop her up intellectually, emotionally and validate her way of getting through life.
    She is her own person more so and is able to fend for herself without other possible unnecessary rubbish.
    I don't have any grand ideas about myself, actually i'm very easy going and down to earth, i'm not 100% sure what you mean by this but i'm fairly sure you have made some pretty big assumptions, i'm only saying what the content of these books were like for me.
    Apart from here and my girlfriend I don't really ever mention ET to people in general. Whats the point? what he's saying, which is the same as has been said by others for thousands of years is out there and available to anyone interested (ET points this out all the time).
    I also find it very strange the contrast between those who are interested and those who think it's nonsense. You could say, look at the contrast between those into astrology and those who aren't, but this is just not the same, when I get to know someone I able to make a very good guess as to weather, they are or aren't into artrology, where as the same cannot be said for those into ET or similiar type writters.


  • #38
    Earthhorse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,728 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    I quite enjoyed The Power of Now but have to say Tolle doesn't appear to be very engaging as a public speaker.

    Saying things like he is just in it for the money is a bit of an easy out. You could say the same about anybody who takes a wage from helping others. There may be many frauds in the Self Help game but I don't believe Tolle is one of them.
    gangs am wrote: »
    Throughout the speech he makes huge presuppositions without backing them up at all. In order to follow his logic, you have to accept everything he says as truth. As analogies they are fine but he presents them as rock solid facts. Which they are not.

    I don't know if the speeches lack context but in the book he often points out that he can't really bring you into a state of presence but can only give you signposts to help you get there. In short, I would say they are very much analogies and not meant to be taken literally.


  • #39
    al28283
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭al28283


    It's the same trick with Alan Carr's stop smoking books, like a placebo, if you've made the decision to sit down and read them then you've already decided it's going to work


  • #40
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Red21 wrote: »
    I don't have any grand ideas about myself, actually i'm very easy going and down to earth, i'm not 100% sure what you mean by this but i'm fairly sure you have made some pretty big assumptions, i'm only saying what the content of these books were like for me.
    Apart from here and my girlfriend I don't really ever mention ET to people in general. Whats the point? what he's saying, which is the same as has been said by others for thousands of years is out there and available to anyone interested (ET points this out all the time).
    I also find it very strange the contrast between those who are interested and those who think it's nonsense. You could say, look at the contrast between those into astrology and those who aren't, but this is just not the same, when I get to know someone I able to make a very good guess as to weather, they are or aren't into artrology, where as the same cannot be said for those into ET or similiar type writters.

    My overall concern is a number of things when I come across material such as his - and I admittedly can be very wrong in the following.

    1. ET trying to get his ideas and theory's out there for if one looks, for the sake of profit and raking money in by clearly profession applied ways.
    (Reminds me personally of the marketing and methods of the Scientology cult immediately, in revenue collection. Something I have studied for decades and personally involved in curtailing.)

    2. The fact that in learning all this stuff and it taking up so much of ones time that instead of living a life, ones life is just spent more so on this stuff than living it.

    I have absolutely nothing against people taking on board others ideas and how they further might help.
    Fair play if such things work for them.

    I have concerns that if ET was so wishing to help people (like many I have seen before him), he should not be see doing it just for the sake of revenue collection.

    I suspect there is many others out there that offer free help possibly along the same thinking lines as ET.
    They just don't ask you for as much, if at all, for large payments every six months!
    (...Leaving out the books, the DVD', etc additionally?)


  • #41
    gamgsam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 292 ✭✭gamgsam


    Earthhorse wrote: »
    I would say they are very much analogies and not meant to be taken literally.

    Fair enough, point taken. But I do have a question for you...

    How'd my name get turned into gangs am :confused::pac:


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  • #42
    Earthhorse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,728 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    It's up to each person how much time they put into it. I found reading his book actually freed up time for me because it helped me stop dwelling on things so much. The difference between Tolle and cults is that there aren't any recorded cases of Tolle preventing people from disengaging with his material nor of people having to hand over all their earnings or even anything close to that so it's a bit of a false comparison to be honest.


  • #43
    Earthhorse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,728 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    gamgsam wrote: »
    Earthhorse wrote: »
    I would say they are very much analogies and not meant to be taken literally.

    Fair enough, point taken. But I do have a question for you...

    How'd my name get turned into gangs am :confused::pac:
    Because I wasn't rooted in the now.

    Or because I'm on my iPhone.


  • #44
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Earthhorse wrote: »
    It's up to each person how much time they put into it. I found reading his book actually freed up time for me because it helped me stop dwelling on things so much. The difference between Tolle and cults is that there aren't any recorded cases of Tolle preventing people from disengaging with his material nor of people having to hand over all their earnings or even anything close to that so it's a bit of a false comparison to be honest.

    Absolutely fair enough and good point.


  • #45
    take everything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,995 ✭✭✭take everything


    It's just mindfulness essentially isn't it?
    To not identify yourself necessarily as your own thoughts (thought about the future and the past).
    In so doing, identifying with the present more and detaching yourself from the stuff above.
    There's merit in it admittedly.
    Easier said than done. Probably takes a bit of practice.

    Edit: Detaching might be a strong term.
    "Not resisting" the stuff from the past and future i suppose.
    As i say, probably takes practice.


  • #46
    take everything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,995 ✭✭✭take everything


    Biggins wrote: »
    You have thought too much about this!
    Take a break - have a pint - relax and come back with a more explanatory post!

    I disagree with your suggestion by the way.
    Frankly I think Eckharte Tolle alone has thought too much about this and is full of over intellectual, self-important, crap.
    What's he selling? Books? Videos? Tour of speaking to the public?
    Meh!

    I think you're dismissing it out of hand unfairly.
    There is something to be said for a greater awareness/understanding of the role of your thoughts and emotions.


  • #47
    Dostoevsky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭Dostoevsky


    ygolometsipe wrote: »
    I only watched 40 seconds and I was ready to throw a bick at the laptop.:mad:

    He is one annoying gob****e!!

    His book, The Power of Now, is however well worth reading.


  • #48
    Earthhorse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,728 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    Yeah, it is just mindfulness essentially, a very big movement these days. I found the way TPON was written very good, in that it is a series of questions and answers, essentially mirroring the kind of scepticism one has when encountering ideas like this.

    I do think it's a valid criticism that people who feel the need to buy all the books, DVDs, attend all the seminars may be missing the point but I found in his writings that Tolle was frank about saying he wasn't teaching you anything new and not to get too attached to him or his teachings.

    I do think people attach themselves too much to their arguments on boards and in life in general; they are more interested in being right than in seeking truth.


  • #49
    Dostoevsky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭Dostoevsky


    take everything wrote: »
    I think you're dismissing it out of hand unfairly.
    There is something to be said for a greater awareness/understanding of the role of your thoughts and emotions.

    Definitely. The most infuriating play I've ever seen/read was Waiting for Godot. Nothing happened. :( It was only afterwards that I appreciated the philosophical joys of nothingness (apologies for sounding French!). Beckett wrote an entire play where nothing happens. The idea itself is refreshing and broadens the mind.

    You're only going to grow by challenging yourself. If you can't stand silence, perhaps it might be good to go to a monastery for a while and meditate and see what growth you'll get. And so forth.


  • #50
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    take everything wrote: »
    I think you're dismissing it out of hand unfairly.
    There is something to be said for a greater awareness/understanding of the role of your thoughts and emotions.

    O' ABSOLUTELY.
    NO argument there. :)

    In fact, I would say that because of the study of such by many good people, lives have been actually been saved.


  • #51
    Pacifist Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Pacifist Pigeon


    lividduck wrote: »
    Well, you could join the Labour Party:D

    Thanks Thor I left.


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  • #52
    Sindri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Sindri


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    Probably because your ego fears stillness, stillness reveals your mind made identity to be nonsense. That's why people feel "awkward" silences. The ego is being exposed in that silence.

    WTF sort of pseudo bull**** are you on about?

    WTF!!!


  • #53
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    Probably because your ego fears stillness, stillness reveals your mind made identity to be nonsense. That's why people feel "awkward" silences. The ego is being exposed in that silence.

    Smoke a spliff of well cured sensi and your ego will shut the fuck up for a while....... this I guarantee.


  • #54
    Sindri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Sindri


    Cachinnations at the abbreviation of Eckhart Tolle as ET. :D


  • #55
    Red21
    Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Red21


    Biggins wrote: »
    My overall concern is a number of things when I come across material such as his - and I admittedly can be very wrong in the following.

    1. ET trying to get his ideas and theory's out there for if one looks, for the sake of profit and raking money in by clearly profession applied ways.
    (Reminds me personally of the marketing and methods of the Scientology cult immediately, in revenue collection. Something I have studied for decades and personally involved in curtailing.)

    2. The fact that in learning all this stuff and it taking up so much of ones time that instead of living a life, ones life is just spent more so on this stuff than living it.
    Seriously?
    The guy had something to say, so he wrote it all down and made a book out of it, this is not all that uncommon, but in his case it turned out that many people are interested and found some kinda worth in what he has to say.
    Whats he supposed to do? Take the books off the shelf because they are achieving what they set out to do? How do know what he does with his money? as far as i'm aware he lives a very modest lifestyle and even if he didn't whould that effect the content of his books?


  • #56
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    Biggins wrote: »
    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    ...Your perspective should be the observer of your thoughts and emotions when they arise and not to resist them.
    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    You seem to be criticising what Tolle teaches without understanding what he teaches. By definition you can't prop yourself up intellectually by taking on board his teachings.


    Any chance of speaking in words that make plain sense instead of talking in proverbial riddles?
    What the fcuk are you on about?

    ...But for alone every six months, you can learn more and sound like your talking in riddles too!
    https://www.eckharttolletv.com/join/

    ...After you have bought the DVD's, the books and then subscribed to other material also!
    Get your checkbook out folks!
    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    Bla... bla... ...thoughts and emotions when they arise and not to resist them.

    ...So his teachings have thought you that when you get the emotion to kill, you should just go out and go it?

    Stop listening to this daft stuff and go out and get a life!

    He teaches you to be the observer of the thoughts and emotions that arise within you. Most people think they are there thoughts and emotions. Who you are is the presence or awareness behind your thoughts and emotions. He doesn't teach you to kill if you get an urge to kill, just to pay attention to the emotions in your body and how they feel, don't fight them, just let them be. You choose whatever actions you want to take.

    As you can see from Internet forums like this, when you think your thoughts are who you are you get offended very easily by others belittling your opinion. As a result of your identification with your thoughts other people's comments have huge power to effect you emotionally and to hurt you. When you are present you can't be offended. Your thoughts and the story of who you are become very important to you when not present. It can consume your thinking and relationship to the world. You joy of life is lessened. Depression can follow, often people use drugs or alcohol to get some sort of joy from life that excessive thinking has removed.


  • #57
    Snake Pliisken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 237 ✭✭Snake Pliisken


    chin_grin wrote: »
    Prefer a bit of Alan Watts meself. (The waves look like bewbs.....teeheehee).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLrMVous0Ac

    Im gonna quote this just to give people a second chance to click on it after passing over it the first time.



    And here's a longer video for anyone who has the interest. Tolle and Watts are saying the same thing, it's just dressed up differently. For me at least, Id rather listen to someone who sounds like James Bond's dad rather than Dr. Strangelove's slow brother.


  • #58
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    You can choose to be comfortable with the way things are by being present. Thoughts cause most suffering.
    It's really old hat this stuff. Live in the now etc. Yellow pack Buddhism repackaged for the disconnected and confused by the levels of first world choices they fret about navigating suburban set. A better polished version of The Secret minus the utter daftness of same. Even there TBH I rate Buddha in some ways, but in other ways I find him a right self absorbed type. Had hangups about the ladies to boot. Jesus could come down with some of that, but was generally more about the external and practical without disappearing up his own arse and for his time was unusually way more OK with women.

    However I would agree with the ego being the bearer of bad news to the mind and actions. There is certainly more of a balance to be struck. In most cases of human unhappiness and stress it's the ego or a concentration on same in play. And it can be a struggle. It does get easier with the years I have to report. IF you are aware of it. If you feel shy, that's the ego shouting. If you feel a grudge that's the ego talking. If you can't let go of the shíte in your head that's the oul ego talking again. It's a loooong list.

    At the same time it's all too easy to disappear up your own arse if you're not equipped to swim in the deep end of your own head. IMHO that can be a cause of problems. Just like I dunno running, some are naturally better at it than others. Sure we can all get better with practice, but if you don't know the right technique and push too far, too soon, it's all too easy to pull a muscle. Ditto with getting into your own head. Even talented people can come asunder. Quite a number of great philosophers went nuts(clinical term). So some caution is advised IMHO.



    TL;DR? Don't sweat the small, even the medium stuff. Realise that a lot of what appears to be the big stuff usually isn't. Realise it'll ALL be forgotten. The graves are filled with forgotten self imposed guilt and ego and anquish and any one of those dry bones that was once like you would give anything to experience being you at your very worst if only for ten seconds. So chill the fcuk out and try to enjoy each second for the all too brief gift it is. (c) Wibbs 2012.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #59
    ygolometsipe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭ygolometsipe


    Dostoevsky wrote: »
    His book, The Power of Now, is however well worth reading.

    why?


  • #60
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    ygolometsipe wrote: »
    Dostoevsky wrote: »
    His book, The Power of Now, is however well worth reading.

    why?

    It can alter your way of being/living to make you enjoy life more and reduce your anxiety, depression, embarrassment etc.


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  • #61
    ygolometsipe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭ygolometsipe


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    It can alter your way of being/living to make you enjoy life more and reduce your anxiety, depression, embarrassment etc.

    how much is the book then?


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