Secret Diary of a Dublin Call Girl

neuro-praxis · 29-02-2012 12:24PM

There is now absolutely no doubt in my mind that the character Eileen_Lang is an utter fraud and charlatan. A dangerous figure in fact.

She has now created a fake blog, which she is pretending is written by a group of happy hookers. Funny that the blog materialised with five new posts on the very day that Eileen_Lang got the boot from boards.

Reading the first five lines will show you that the characters are utter fabrications. Real people do not speak like this.

Elieen_Lang says on her site that this blog is "all her dreams come true". That genuinely made me LOL.

I now have no doubt in mind that "she" is a pimp and a very dangerous person. I am pretty sickened and disgusted.

http://utterlies.com/

neuro-praxis · 29-02-2012 12:29PM

Dear Lord, she even engages in fake conversations with herself in the comments section.

Dolbert · 29-02-2012 12:38PM

Ugh, it's so sinister. I have to say that I'm glad Eileen's tactics seem to have backfired on here at least. The very fact that 'she' is so against Ruhama makes me more inclined to support them than ever.

MariaMoy · 29-02-2012 02:00PM

sambuka41 wrote: »

I'm actually a girl

Lol, that's kind of funny.

Well your attitude is welcome no matter who it comes from.

And as for the men who share it, I've come across many men down the years who hold the same attitude you expressed and to be honest there have been times when it's brought tears to my eyes to hear and see evidence of that.

@ mhge, thank you for your questions. I hadn’t intended to post more than once to this thread but the questions you’ve asked are worthwhile. I will make this my last post as immersing myself in this issue would be detrimental to my emotional health. I’m sure people will understand that. I’d also really like to say a heartfelt thank you to all the posters who’ve thanked my last post or made kind comments. It made me feel incredibly supported. That means a lot when you feel incredibly exposed! Actually a lot of the posts I read before I posted have been a sincere relief to me. A lot of them had me thinking ‘Oh thank God, thank God ordinary people can see what’s going on here!’

Firstly mhge, as I’m sure you’ll know the Turn Off The Red Light campaign advocates for criminalisation of the demand for prostitution, not the sale of it, so women and girls are not going to find themselves arrested as I did post ’93, and I believe this new suggestion is the right way forward. What were we doing to deserve arresting, in fairness, other than trying to work our way of dire straits?

We were all in the same boat in that sense, and in a lot of other senses besides. The funny thing is that the lives of street working prostitutes are very similar. There are certain characteristics that are so alike that to talk to one girl you may as well be taking to the rest of them, our stories were that similar. There was always poverty, there was always some form of abuse in our backgrounds (often sexual) there was always a family background that was unsupportive because of physical or mental illness or substance abuse or violence or some other negative that drove her, usually as a teenager, out of her home.

You asked “Looking back, do you appreciate this avenue being there then? Or would you prefer to have been “forced” to look for other options”. I could never appreciate the avenue of having been used sexually for money. Never. The damage it caused will never leave me. It is just something I’ve had to learn to live with. As for being forced to look for other options, I believe that there should be other options made available so that females as desperate as I was do not have to submit to being mauled and fcuked for money just in order to survive.

There ought to be provisions made available to women who are this desperate, and for all the moaning that goes on about Ruhama, they are the only organisation I am aware of that offers women education and training. I was never involved with Ruhama myself (they did not offer those services during my time in prostitution) but I respect their present-day commitment to offer women what no one else is offering them, which is a chance at life in mainstream society. That’s all I ever wanted back then and if anyone had offered it to me I would have taken their hand off for it.

This thread has shown that the attitude is out there that prostitution is the ONLY way for some women, but I believe that, far from accepting that, it's up to us formerly prostituted women to set about changing that. It's up to us to speak out so that people understand what's really going on for these women. Never in a million years would I support the idea that because I had to do it, other vulnerable young women and girls should have to do it now too. It's an attitude that gives me the shudders just thinking about it, to be honest.

As for where we are now economically as a country, I still see money being spent of superfluous things – money that would be more than enough and better spent in offering this generation’s desperate young women a chance at a life that’s actually worth living. I would love to see them get that, believe me they truly do deserve it, and I have no doubt that the majority of them would take your hand off for it too.

ShiftStorm · 29-02-2012 04:30PM

Dolorous wrote: »

Ugh, it's so sinister. I have to say that I'm glad Eileen's tactics seem to have backfired on here at least. The very fact that 'she' is so against Ruhama makes me more inclined to support them than ever.

She also has her own Facebook page from which she posts on Ruhama's and Enda Kenny's Facebook pages. What a strange way to spend your time...

ShiftStorm · 29-02-2012 05:21PM

She's all over the internet: http://http://www.politics.ie/forum/health-social-affairs/181395-prime-time-profiting-prostitution-escort-ireland-online-trade-59.html

Maybe Eileen Lang and Wendy Lyons are the same person again? http://http://feministire.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/thoughts-on-last-nights-prime-time/#comments

Eileen challenges Dublin call girl here: http://http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/column-sex-workers-face-brutal-abuse-do-we-want-this-to-be-%E2%80%98normal%E2%80%99/

Ickle Magoo · 29-02-2012 05:28PM

Okay folks - Eileen_Lang has been site-banned and as such has lost the right to reply...I for one would prefer if there was no encouragement given to sign up again under another guise so can we move on and get back on-topic please, rather than carry on where she left off with the promotion and links.

Cheers.

The_Thing · 29-02-2012 07:45PM

It's over 10 years since Sweden passed the law, but Police bust massive sex trafficking ring.

strandroad · 01-03-2012 01:03AM

MariaMoy wrote: »

@ mhge, thank you for your questions. I hadn’t intended to post more than once to this thread but the questions you’ve asked are worthwhile. I will make this my last post as immersing myself in this issue would be detrimental to my emotional health. I’m sure people will understand that. I’d also really like to say a heartfelt thank you to all the posters who’ve thanked my last post or made kind comments. It made me feel incredibly supported. That means a lot when you feel incredibly exposed! Actually a lot of the posts I read before I posted have been a sincere relief to me. A lot of them had me thinking ‘Oh thank God, thank God ordinary people can see what’s going on here!’

Maria, thank you - thank you very much for your story and your answers. There is not much we "civilians" can do apart from educating ourselves, listening to stories like yours and remembering them, so that we can make informed decisions if we have any say in legislation, or we can spot and fight some attitudes around us. I would never look down on any prostitute active or retired, elective or forced.

You were super strong to get out and I wish you all the best in your healing.

Logical Fallacy · 01-03-2012 03:44AM

sambuka41 wrote: »

I agree this was very disturbing, maybe I am conservative but I can't imagine having sex with someone who I know doesn't want to have sex with me??? :(

They must be really immature men to put their physical needs above everything else. There is such a disconnect from their own sexuality as more than just the physical act.

Well i would hazard a guess that the physical act itself, and the desire to actually have sex, isn't really all the genuine for some people who use prostitutes.

I think for some people it's better to have sex under those circumstance (having to pay for it) than not to have sex...simply because there is a lot of weight being applied to the idea of sexual activity meaning you are, in some sphere, successful.

I know a couple of people who have been with prostitutes...but at the time all of them were in a low place, with not a huge amount of self confidence or respect for themselves and will i would not apply such characteristics to all people who pay for sex I would assume there is a sizable portion who are driven by a need that is not so much physical, but a mild soothing of the emotional torment involved.

I mean, if you think about it, how long does a really, really good and fantastic lay stay with you physically? A meal and a sleep, it's the emotional connection that tends to stay longer so I imagine that is what some of them are seeking.

Kimia · 01-03-2012 03:46AM

My god, this thread. I avoided replying for ages because I couldn't make myself read through Eileen's replies but I read the blog and all the other replies here and I feel compelled to post.

I had always avoided thinking about prostitution for some reason. I had no experience with it, I didn't know any other women who were prostitutes and although I always had a vague sense of unease about it, I never really thought about it much, I'm ashamed to say.

My mind has been blown wide open. As a woman, my heart breaks when I think about how painful and traumatic life as a prostitute must be. I cannot understand how any 'punter' can justify visiting a prostitute to themselves, I genuinely can't.

One thing that the Dublin Call Girl remarked on was that having the money to pay for a woman to have sex with you is like wielding this sexual power over someone. Getting off on having this power over someone else in a sexual way is to me, rape. So I have come to the conclusion that visiting a prostitute is like paying to rape someone. It's paying to sexually exploit someone else's weakness. Scary stuff.

The men say 'Well she could change jobs'. To them I say - how could you be so stupid and naive to think that someone would willingly rent out their body to someone else for money? Would you do that?

I don't even know where to begin when thinking about how to make suggestions on how to improve the situation. A lot of minds have to change. These men have to stop seeing women as objects (and I'm hugely aware that it is only SOME men who view women like this) purely there to service their own sexual appetites. It's so upsetting. Thank you to everyone who shared their personal stories.

Millicent · 01-03-2012 04:45AM

Kimia, not to insult you or be rude (and I have seen many others make the same connection between prostitution and rape), to compare non-trafficked prostitution where consent has been given to rape where no consent has been, is an insult to those who have been raped or sexually abused.

Again, I don't mean to be off with you about this but it is one of the things I've read around the internet and some feminist theories about prostitution that really irks me. If a woman chooses to sell her body for sexual use and is not coerced, trafficked or abused into it and consents of her own free will, there is no equation with rape. Such accusations weaken the definition of the horrific crime that is rape.

Cavehill Red · 01-03-2012 04:59AM

I see that the main (sole?) female dissenter from an enforced orthodoxy on this thread has been removed. The discussion is now strongly at risk of becoming a circle-jerk around a narrow consensus that there is nothing at all dubious about the DCG blog, that Ruhama do nothing but good, that all men who attend prostitutes are sexual abusers, that all women involved in sex work are being trafficked, pimped and raped, and that prostitution should be legislated against even further than it already is.
I'm not a prostitute, have not used the services of prostitutes, but I am a libertarian and I have met prostitutes, in Ireland and abroad, and taken time to speak with them about their lives and experiences. I don't find the consensus opinion forming here to be genuinely representative of the diversity of those experiences, to be honest. It seems to me that nothing is as cut and dried as the consensus opinion here would wish it to be.
I don't believe all sex workers are abused, I have serious scepticism about the veracity of the DCG blog, and I believe that Ruhama operate in the interests of the Roman Catholic Church and not in the interests of sex workers. But fundamentally I think the issue is as diverse as the people engaged in it, which is quite diverse indeed, and certainly much wider than the narrow range of opinions now tolerated on this thread.
That's all really.

K-9 · 01-03-2012 05:32AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I see that the main (sole?) female dissenter from an enforced orthodoxy on this thread has been removed. The discussion is now strongly at risk of becoming a circle-jerk around a narrow consensus that there is nothing at all dubious about the DCG blog, that Ruhama do nothing but good, that all men who attend prostitutes are sexual abusers, that all women involved in sex work are being trafficked, pimped and raped, and that prostitution should be legislated against even further than it already is.
I'm not a prostitute, have not used the services of prostitutes, but I am a libertarian and I have met prostitutes, in Ireland and abroad, and taken time to speak with them about their lives and experiences. I don't find the consensus opinion forming here to be genuinely representative of the diversity of those experiences, to be honest. It seems to me that nothing is as cut and dried as the consensus opinion here would wish it to be.
I don't believe all sex workers are abused, I have serious scepticism about the veracity of the DCG blog, and I believe that Ruhama operate in the interests of the Roman Catholic Church and not in the interests of sex workers. But fundamentally I think the issue is as diverse as the people engaged in it, which is quite diverse indeed, and certainly much wider than the narrow range of opinions now tolerated on this thread.
That's all really.

As a Libertarian as you say you are, I see a lot of blame attached to Ruhama, the DCG blog and painting all discussion on this thread as anti men. You say all men who attend prostitutes are painted as sex abusers, traffickers, rapists and pimps.

I think you are being a tad dismissive and hyperbolic but say your version is true, as a Libertarian, why are you so dismissive of an individuals opinion and feelings?

Libertarianasm is supposed to be about free choice, free will, individual liberty and voluntary association after all. If DCG and many other women don't like prostitution through free will, liberty and free thought, what's the problem?

I'd have thought none, for a Libertarian. Maybe if this thought gained weight, there'd be no free market for prostitution? No sellers of a product causing no harm to anybody?A strange dilemna for a Libertarian, as that would surely mean there must be harm?

JuliusCaesar · 01-03-2012 08:03AM

There's nothing stopping people who were abused at an early age or vulnerable time, from:
being educated
being intelligent
having low self-esteem

or even from afterwards, re-thinking their whole outlook on life.

As I said very early on in the discussion, there's nothing in the blog that would make me, as a psychologist, suspicious that it isn't true. Psychologically, it does all hang together.

neuro-praxis · 01-03-2012 11:32AM

In fairness Cavehill Red, libertarianism is an extreme political position. I presume I'm one of the posters at the heart of your criticism here, and that makes sense, because my values clash loud and hard with those of libertarianism. And it's not because I'm not into personal freedom, but rather because I'm not into abandoning the poor. Libertarianism may look like freedom, but it's only freedom for rich people. And that's the reality. Of course it's a pretty broad school of thought, but libertarianism worked out to its logical conclusion would create a pretty nightmarish dystopia, with little to no protection for the most vulnerable. But anyway, this is not a thread about about libertarianism. Suffice to say libertarianism is not a good enough excuse as far as I am concerned to ignore the realities of abuse, poverty and destitution that surround the vast majority of working prostitutes. (Ever considered communitarianism?

) Once more I feel the need to reiterate that nobody here is lobbying for outlawing prostitution. We are just trying to uncover what would best protect the women involved.

skregs, DCG never said she had no choice in the matter. She says clearly that she thought that at the time she was acting freely, but discovered that her "free" choices had in fact caused severe personal damage.

MariaMoy · 01-03-2012 12:07PM

Millicent wrote: »

Kimia, not to insult you or be rude (and I have seen many others make the same connection between prostitution and rape), to compare non-trafficked prostitution where consent has been given to rape where no consent has been, is an insult to those who have been raped or sexually abused.

Again, I don't mean to be off with you about this but it is one of the things I've read around the internet and some feminist theories about prostitution that really irks me. If a woman chooses to sell her body for sexual use and is not coerced, trafficked or abused into it and consents of her own free will, there is no equation with rape. Such accusations weaken the definition of the horrific crime that is rape.

Oh I swore I wouldn't do this but here goes:

I'd agree with your hypothesis here Millicent, but I think it's important to point out that during a large chunk of a decade in prostitution, I never met a woman who fit this criteria. I never came across the absence of coercion in prostitution.

I am of course not saying it does not exist at all, just that it is so uncommon that I have never come across it. Surely if this was at all common I would have come across it, at least once?

Also, those who have been prostituted have usually also had the experience of being raped or sexually abused, either before or during prostitution, as I have. I don't feel any sense of insult as far as comparing the two experiences because I know from bitter experience that having sex you don't want to have hurts like hell regardless whether you were paid for it or not. And in fact, in a psychological sense, I found the trauma of prostitution MORE damaging, not less, so entrenched with the sense of culpability that it is.

As an abuse victim I might have had to live with the 'you asked for it' response. As a prostitute I had to live with the 'you got paid for it' attitude - the untimate silencer. I'd really appreciate if people reflected on that for a moment and imagined which is hardest to live with.

Cavehill Red · 01-03-2012 12:13PM

K-9 wrote: »

As a Libertarian as you say you are, I see a lot of blame attached to Ruhama, the DCG blog and painting all discussion on this thread as anti men. You say all men who attend prostitutes are painted as sex abusers, traffickers, rapists and pimps.

I think you are being a tad dismissive and hyperbolic but say your version is true, as a Libertarian, why are you so dismissive of an individuals opinion and feelings?

Libertarianism is not to be equated with woolly-headed ignoring of realities. Just because someone feels something or holds an opinion does not make it true.

K-9 wrote: »

Libertarianasm is supposed to be about free choice, free will, individual liberty and voluntary association after all. If DCG and many other women don't like prostitution through free will, liberty and free thought, what's the problem?

I don't have any problem with anyone who dislikes prostitution. It strikes me as a rather unlikeable industry from most angles. The problems I identified on this thread relate to the blanket acceptance that an anonymous blog is unalloyed truth, and certain blanket assumptions being made about the reality of prostitution that seem to me to be highly limited in scope.

K-9 wrote: »

I'd have thought none, for a Libertarian. Maybe if this thought gained weight, there'd be no free market for prostitution? No sellers of a product causing no harm to anybody?A strange dilemna for a Libertarian, as that would surely mean there must be harm?

I don't follow your logic here at all. A truly Libertarian view would permit both those who denigrate prostitution and those who support it to hold their opinions freely and act on those opinions freely.

Cavehill Red · 01-03-2012 12:19PM

neuro-praxis wrote: »

In fairness Cavehill Red, libertarianism is an extreme political position.

I disagree, obviously.

neuro-praxis wrote: »

I presume I'm one of the posters at the heart of your criticism here, and that makes sense, because my values clash loud and hard with those of libertarianism. And it's not because I'm not into personal freedom, but rather because I'm not into abandoning the poor. Libertarianism may look like freedom, but it's only freedom for rich people. And that's the reality.

Actually, that's just your opinion.

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Of course it's a pretty broad school of thought, but libertarianism worked out to its logical conclusion would create a pretty nightmarish dystopia, with little to no protection for the most vulnerable. But anyway, this is not a thread about about libertarianism.

Glad you finally noticed. You seemed to be getting quite carried away with yourself.

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Suffice to say libertarianism is not a good enough excuse as far as I am concerned to ignore the realities of abuse, poverty and destitution that surround the vast majority of working prostitutes. (Ever considered communitarianism? ) Once more I feel the need to reiterate that nobody here is lobbying for outlawing prostitution. We are just trying to uncover what would best protect the women involved.

Actually, the thread is a discussion about the DCG blog. I've noted that some off-topic diversions seem to be much more tolerated than others within that framework including your proffered one above.
As for harm reduction, I would consider it useful to listen to actual prostitutes, rather than potentially fictional ones. I'd start, in other words, with what De Rode Draad have to say.

fatmammycat · 01-03-2012 12:30PM

Pfft, more than one sex worker came on here and amply backed what DCG had to say, but that doesn't seem to suit you.

fatmammycat · 01-03-2012 12:32PM

And by the way 'Eileen' wasn't removed because she didn't tow the party line, she was removed for questioning a mod, previous to that she was caught out in some porkers.

Cavehill Red · 01-03-2012 01:45PM

fatmammycat wrote: »

Pfft, more than one sex worker came on here and amply backed what DCG had to say, but that doesn't seem to suit you.

Again, I'd ask, how do you know? Sorry to be a cynic, but the DCG blog rings false to me, and there is zero evidence that anyone on this thread posting their 'prostitute experience' is who they claim to be.
As I said, I'll accept evidence and suggestions of a way forward from actual prostitutes. That is available from De Rode Draad and elsewhere. There is no proof of it being available here, which is why I'm inclined to disregard the anecdotal, and possibly (if not likely) fictional evidence offered by anonymous posters, many of whom appear suspiciously to have signed up solely to post on this thread.

shinikins · 01-03-2012 01:56PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

fatmammycat wrote: »

Pfft, more than one sex worker came on here and amply backed what DCG had to say, but that doesn't seem to suit you.

Again, I'd ask, how do you know? Sorry to be a cynic, but the DCG blog rings false to me, and there is zero evidence that anyone on this thread posting their 'prostitute experience' is who they claim to be.
As I said, I'll accept evidence and suggestions of a way forward from actual prostitutes. That is available from De Rode Draad and elsewhere. There is no proof of it being available here, which is why I'm inclined to disregard the anecdotal, and possibly (if not likely) fictional evidence offered by anonymous posters, many of whom appear suspiciously to have signed up solely to post on this thread.

DCG has been verified by a working prostitute on an escort website. Where there seems to be more tolerance and acceptance of her experiences than here.

Cavehill Red · 01-03-2012 02:05PM

shinikins wrote: »

DCG has been verified by a working prostitute on an escort website.

Again, how do you know? Fair enough if you are prepared to accept that as evidence. I'm not. Furthermore, even if such an endorsement turned out to be true, it doesn't verify the allegations made in the blog at all.

shinikins · 01-03-2012 02:35PM

What more evidence do you need Cavehill? A working prostitute with an extremely high post count on that escort website has verified that she personally knows DCG and that she is on the level. The owner of that site has verified that DCG has advertised with them in the past.

LittleBook · 01-03-2012 02:46PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I see that the main (sole?) female dissenter from an enforced orthodoxy on this thread has been removed. The discussion is now strongly at risk of becoming a circle-jerk around a narrow consensus that there is nothing at all dubious about the DCG blog, that Ruhama do nothing but good, that all men who attend prostitutes are sexual abusers, that all women involved in sex work are being trafficked, pimped and raped, and that prostitution should be legislated against even further than it already is

OK, here goes ... I don't necessarily believe that all men who attend prostitutes are sexual abusers, that all women involved in sex work are being trafficked, pimped and raped or that prostitution should be legislated against even further than it already is. I have no opinion on Ruhama.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Actually, the thread is a discussion about the DCG blog.

Exactly, this thread is about DCG and her blog and even if you doubt the veracity of it, you cannot deny that it is absolutely plausible and deals with ONE area of sex work that should be discussed openly ... urgently.

We cannot represent the diversity of prostitution in one thread, particularly not one that, from the outset, is clearly dealing with a specific type of prositute.

Sorry Cavehill but you know full well why that poster was banned. I agreed with that poster (to a certain extent) and I can see that you and I also have similar enough views.

But I don't believe that dismissing DCG or diverting attention from a desperately abusive area of prostitution is fair or right.

Cavehill Red · 01-03-2012 03:24PM

shinikins wrote: »

What more evidence do you need Cavehill? A working prostitute with an extremely high post count on that escort website has verified that she personally knows DCG and that she is on the level. The owner of that site has verified that DCG has advertised with them in the past.

I'd like evidence on a par with De Rode Draad, where verifiable prostitutes and former prostitutes have for a long time now represented what their position is on all aspects of prostitution in their country supported by research and without recourse to anonymous anecdotal blogging which cannot be verified.

Cavehill Red · 01-03-2012 03:28PM

LittleBook wrote: »

Exactly, this thread is about DCG and her blog and even if you doubt the veracity of it, you cannot deny that it is absolutely plausible and deals with ONE area of sex work that should be discussed openly ... urgently.

I only speak for myself, but I don't find it plausible. I think it reads like fiction. I accept others may be more gullible or that my standards of evidence are more stringent.

LittleBook wrote: »

We cannot represent the diversity of prostitution in one thread, particularly not one that, from the outset, is clearly dealing with a specific type of prositute.

If people don't wish to attempt to acknowledge the diversity of prostitution, then they should probably veer away from making blanket statements concerning legislation for starters.

LittleBook wrote: »

Sorry Cavehill but you know full well why that poster was banned. I agreed with that poster (to a certain extent) and I can see that you and I also have similar enough views.
But I don't believe that dismissing DCG or diverting attention from a desperately abusive area of prostitution is fair or right.

What I've noticed is that the most significant dissenting voice on this thread has been site-banned. I've also noticed a chorus of consensus, largely identifiable by mutual circle-jerk thanking, which seeks to depict a singular vision of prostitution.
If I don't believe the DCG blog, then it would be dishonest for me NOT to dismiss it. As I've said already, I entirely accept if others are prepared to run with it on face value. I require better evidence that this is not fiction.

strandroad · 01-03-2012 03:37PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

What I've noticed is that the most significant dissenting voice on this thread has been site-banned. I've also noticed a chorus of consensus, largely identifiable by mutual circle-jerk thanking, which seeks to depict a singular vision of prostitution.
If I don't believe the DCG blog, then it would be dishonest for me NOT to dismiss it. As I've said already, I entirely accept if others are prepared to run with it on face value. I require better evidence that this is not fiction.

This "dissenting voice's" view is fundamentally identical to DCG's - her experience in prostitution was so terrible that she was ready to kill herself if she had to go back, and she doesn't want prostitution criminalised (neither does DCG).
It's not her views that got her banned, but her way of presenting them.

Interestingly you are ready to view her as a valid debater, although her credentials are much more dodgy than DCG's (basically she doesn't present any and is not verified by anyone) and her writing here is at least equally polished and literary. You can also visit her blog and see for yourself if her stories sound any more real to you than the ones posted here or on DCG's blog/comments.

Cavehill Red · 01-03-2012 03:43PM

mhge wrote: »

Interestingly you are ready to view her as a valid debater.

Where have I said that?

Secret Diary of a Dublin Call Girl

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