Secret Diary of a Dublin Call Girl

fatmammycat · 27-02-2012 08:46PM

mhge wrote: »

Being pro-prostitution (as in "elective sex workers") is one thing, I might be in this camp myself; but Eileen campaigns primarily for prostitution as solution for women already vulnerable, abused, addicted and in this way (in her own words) saving themselves from death. Also her portrayal of punters and pimps is so idealistic and her putting down of other survivors accounts so consistent that you can't help asking what exactly is her agenda.

In DCG's own words 'I don’t want prostitution to exist, and I want to see prostitutes activities decriminalised.' yet Eileen rails against her and has, from the start, tried to besmirch DCG's experience and voice as unreasonable and wrong and ungenuine while parading her own experience as the authentic one.
No, something smells rotten in the state of Denmark.

LittleBook · 28-02-2012 10:54AM

Emme wrote: »

I am getting fed up of this thread. At first it was an opportunity to give traumatised women in prostitution a voice, but this has continually been shouted down by Eileen Lang in her relentless crusade to defend prostitution.

yekahS wrote: »

Perhaps you just have a different point of view than Eileen?

I actually agree with Eileen (to a certain extent) but I've found her monopolisation of this thread completely off-putting and incomprehensible. The very fact that she's made over one quarter of the posts in this entire thread ... many of which make no sense, possibly simply because of the sheer volume and her insistence that her point of view is the only correct point of view ... in and of itself is very disconcerting to me and has completely discouraged me from joining in.

I find this extremely ironic considering that her initial contribution was to criticise how "totally self absorbed", "self-pitying" and "self-indulgent" DCG is on her own blog.

Unfortunately the fact that DCG (the actual subject of this thread) is an abolitionist (which is completely understandable to me) and supposedly "well on her way to working in every single deliberate misconception promoted by the more fanatical aspects of the abolitionists to date" places her at odds with Eileen and this has effectively shut down this thread.

Eileen_Lang · 28-02-2012 12:16PM

LittleBook wrote: »

I actually agree with Eileen (to a certain extent) but I've found her monopolisation of this thread completely off-putting and incomprehensible. The very fact that she's made over one quarter of the posts in this entire thread ... many of which make no sense, possibly simply because of the sheer volume and her insistence that her point of view is the only correct point of view ... in and of itself is very disconcerting to me and has completely discouraged me from joining in.

In a funny way, LittleBook, you have gone some way (I suspect) to answering a question I just asked someone else in private.

You have to understand that I am in a different position to any other poster on the thread.

I am not "Eileen Lang". "Eileen Lang" is a cipher for one part of me...the part that has (at first by sheer coincidence) known a vast array of aspects of the sex industry, and the politics around them, at close quarters, or at first hand, for almost 40 years.

That is experience, and knowledge that I do not think anyone can match, it is also the experience and knowledge that leaves me in the unenviable position of seeing at this proposed legislation as the unnecessary potential disaster for at least hundreds of people that it really is...and sadly, the underlying motives of those who are promoting it in all their shabby, selfserving glory...

Which places me under a very heavy obligation to do anything and everything I can to halt it.

I am having to grow a crocodile hide to handle the kind of abuse that is being thrown at me here as a matter of course, but I'd better grow that hide quickly because it is only going to get worse, particularly as everything I am trying to achieve here starts to gain ground.

I also have to carefully hide everything that could be used to identify me, even my personal interests. I am no fool, I know my identity will eventually be blown, but (obviously) I want to make that as hard as possible, and hold out as long as possible.

I do not have legions of friends to steam in and support me because, literally, *NOBODY* but me, knows who "Eileen Lang" is or that I am doing any of this at all. That makes me a "soft target" and there are people who cannot resist taking a shot at any soft target just because it is there.

LittleBook wrote: »

I find this extremely ironic considering that her initial contribution was to criticise how "totally self absorbed", "self-pitying" and "self-indulgent" DCG is on her own blog.

I don't think that is a very fair thing to say, considering the one person I have not really been talking about at all is me, or how I feel.

I am not asking for anything for me, not sympathy, friendship, attention, understanding...I could not afford to provide the necessary information to ask for those things if I wanted them...I am speaking for a whole hidden industry. That is why I have even had to adjust some of my positions away from my own feelings and experience to take in new information about the way people currently involved in the sex industry are telling me they feel, and what they need.

I will not gain one single thing by anything I do on this issue...except the satisfaction of knowing that I stood my ground and did the right thing, however frightening, however painful, and however much it costs me, before it is over.

That is what I did with the '93 law...fought to reverse it, and raise public awareness of the reality of prostitution, for as long as I possibly could...and then when I had done all that I could I stood back from it all and let other people publish memoirs, do the magazine and chat show circuits, get all the attention and make all the money...not, I hasten to add, out of generosity, but because I find those things about as appealing as putting my head in *your* toilet and pulling the chain, it just isn't the way I am made.

LittleBook wrote: »

Unfortunately the fact that DCG (the actual subject of this thread) is an abolitionist (which is completely understandable to me) and supposedly "well on her way to working in every single deliberate misconception promoted by the more fanatical aspects of the abolitionists to date" places her at odds with Eileen and this has effectively shut down this thread.

27 pages? Not exactly my idea of "shut down"...:)

But you do have a point, discussion is about the exchange and development of ideas, and in some ways depends upon a degree of acquiescence to the "right to be wrong".

I am in a different position here, in that my ideas have already developed far beyond anything expressed here, in far greater detail and depth for many years, it is not possible for me to *unknow* things I know that well, nor even fake it, and you are right, from your point of view that makes me a great big spoilsport. I am constantly aware of that, dealing with it is part of what the crocodile hide is for, but from my point of view you are discussing the pros and cons of having a very real pogrom with other people's lives.

So if you need to hurt, snip at and revile Eileen Lang for that, then all I can do is take it on the chin. But I do it with pride because this kind of hostility is one my worst fears, and taking it on the chin is very, very hard for me.

strandroad · 28-02-2012 12:45PM

Eileen_Lang wrote: »

I am speaking for a whole hidden industry.

No you're not, and this is precisely the root mistake you make and the reason why you're gaining so little traction in this thread. There have been people from the industry or ex-industry checking in to say specifically that they do not agree with you (in your numerous appearances on different boards you must have seen it loads of times) and yet you're still convinced you know better than them and you know what's better for them.

Larleane28 · 28-02-2012 02:04PM

Eileen_Lang wrote: »

"Eileen Lang" is a cipher for one part of me...the part that has (at first by sheer coincidence) known a vast array of aspects of the sex industry, and the politics around them, at close quarters, or at first hand, for almost 40 years.

Sorry but I have to call nonsense on this Eileen, along with a great deal of your other remarks on this thread.

You spent six years in prostitution according to yourself, and even if you did have "almost 40 years" experience of "a vast array of aspects of the sex industry", it still would not qualify you to speak for anyone other than yourself.

Eileen_Lang · 28-02-2012 02:47PM

Larleane28 wrote: »

Sorry but I have to call nonsense on this Eileen, along with a great deal of your other remarks on this thread.
You spent six years in prostitution according to yourself, and even if you did have "almost 40 years" experience of "a vast array of aspects of the sex industry", it still would not qualify you to speak for anyone other than yourself.

I did not say I had "40 years experience" of "a vast array of aspects of the sex industry", what I said was that I have "known a vast array of aspects of the sex industry, and the politics around them, at close quarters, or at first hand, for almost 40 years.", which means something very different.

Perhaps I should have made that more clear...I have had a lot of other close connections (many pretty much by pure coincidence) to the sex industry, the people who worked in it and the politics around it going back to 1972...I also lobbied the issue for years when I was *not* a prostitute...and have retained a focus on relevant political developments ever since...

I think that the people in the sex industry who have asked me to put their point of view (combined with the fact that I have gone to the trouble to make very sure I know what they actually want me to say) probably does entitle me to speak for them.

Larleane28 · 28-02-2012 03:11PM

Eileen_Lang wrote: »

I think that the people in the sex industry who have asked me to put their point of view (combined with the fact that I have gone to the trouble to make very sure I know what they actually want me to say) probably does entitle me to speak for them.

Well then perhaps you should advise them to visit this thread and put their own views forward Eileen. It is anonymous after all.

I am certainly prepared to accept your view as your personal view, to which you are of course entitled, but I am in no way prepared to accept that you are "speaking for a whole hidden industry".

Eileen_Lang · 28-02-2012 03:57PM

Larleane28 wrote: »

Well then perhaps you should advise them to visit this thread and put their own views forward Eileen. It is anonymous after all.

I am certainly prepared to accept your view as your personal view, to which you are of course entitled, but I am in no way prepared to accept that you are "speaking for a whole hidden industry".

Unfortunately, people in the sex industry are almost irrationally wary of speaking for themselves...of course seeing the way some people have treated me here you cannot really blame them.

The stigma is thousands of years old, goes very deep and is often quite unconscious, even in decent, liberal people. You are dictating to me as though I were a child, yet I have made it clear that I am probably well old enough to be your mother.

If you did not know I was a prostitute, no matter how much you disagreed with, or disliked me, you would not introduce yourself to me that way. It is dehumanising and hurts a very great deal to be treated like that almost as a default - not everybody does it, but it is common enough that when someone addresses me in normal, equal terms it is noticeable.

I knew that is what I was letting myself in for when I took this on, and it is less personal for me because I am out of the sex industry so long, but very few people in the sex industry can face signing on for that kind of treatment.

They are also wary of being recognised and exposed. People have been exposed in the Red tops and been hounded out of their family homes, their children have been bullied in schools.

Then there is another level where they are wary of being recognised by their clients and losing business because they are uncomfortable with what they have said. This is a tiny country, one article in a mainstream paper about the negative aspects of sex work can kill off business for days. But I am speaking from a more detached position that will have far less adverse effect.

Wibbs · 28-02-2012 04:02PM

Larleane28 wrote: »

I am certainly prepared to accept your view as your personal view, to which you are of course entitled, but I am in no way prepared to accept that you are "speaking for a whole hidden industry".

I agree.

Eileen_Lang as has been noted by a number of posters, you've taken over this thread and I strongly suggest you refrain from posting in it for a day. Now it's more you and what increasingly looks like your soapbox hogging this thread. Allow others to have their say.

Do NOT reply to this on thread. Thank you.

strandroad · 28-02-2012 04:26PM

Eileen_Lang wrote: »

Unfortunately, people in the sex industry are almost irrationally wary of speaking for themselves...of course seeing the way some people have treated me here you cannot really blame them.

The stigma is thousands of years old, goes very deep and is often quite unconscious, even in decent, liberal people. You are dictating to me as though I were a child, yet I have made it clear that I am probably well old enough to be your mother.

If you did not know I was a prostitute, no matter how much you disagreed with, or disliked me, you would not introduce yourself to me that way. It is dehumanising and hurts a very great deal to be treated like that almost as a default - not everybody does it, but it is common enough that when someone addresses me in normal, equal terms it is noticeable.

I think you are very wrong here. As far as I can remember from this thread (without going back to read it again in its entirety, so open to corrections) no one is belittling you or attacking you because you used to be a prostitute or you now speak out in matters related to the industry.

You are, however, critised for your flawed logic, inconsistencies, unrealistic portrayal of certain aspects, putting down other prostitutes active or retired (etc etc), but mostly for your righteousness and the fact that you claim to be the voice of the industry, which is very blatantly untrue. In other words, for the faults you present in your debating, which undoubtedly do and will translate to faults in your campaigning.

This is what internet debates are like; if you are asked to invite other voices to support your views - if they are indeed so universal - you can see it as part of normal boards discussion that it is. Or you can feel "dictated to" and suspect that the poster is mistreating you due to your past profession (in which case the whole Irish Economy board is full of prostitutes as they keep pulling each other up on facts constantly, and in much harsher terms). Your choice. But if you carry this attitude into your campaigning you're only setting straw men for yourself to fight with.

We are the exact people you should try to get on your side - most of us have no dog in this race so to speak, and in case of a referendum, for example, our voices can make some difference to your cause. Instead you alienate us and present some bizarre or sinister facets of the industry that can actually make people normally supportive of legalisation turn away. I might be leaning towards legalisation myself but your examples of abused 18 year olds advised to prostitute themselves and trust pimps with regard to their budget make me think twice for sure.

I am not against your cause. But you are doing it great disservice.

careymary · 28-02-2012 04:45PM

So the thread was opened to discuss DCG's blog,
Here is my opinion anyways, I want to say I enjoyed reading it but that just seems so wrong, it seems more honest to say I benefited from reading it,
To me her blog read as if it was coming from a very raw hurt and honest place, my heart went out to her and her experiences, I work in the violence against women sector and through this I know some people who have turned to prostitution at times,
IMO it is truely sad for a person to have such low self value to put themselves into such a damaging and dangerous course, when I read DCG's blog I could hear the voices of women I know and I think DCG is using the blog in a very healthy catharthic way which has an added bonus of reaching people and showing them a view of an experience they may never have thought in depth about.
No matter what anyone may say about this blog, I am glad if its helping DCG,

I think there are lots more issues that could be talked about surrounding prostitution but this thread wasnt started to discuss legislation etc, and while it would have been interesting to see the thread grow in this manner, I feel the thread had been dominated and no real discussion has been had, just a butting of heads, which is unfortunate for all posters & lurkers!

neuro-praxis · 28-02-2012 04:58PM

It's a grave pity that the thread is ending this way.

I can understand that you feel ganged up on Eileen, and why, as it Eileen vs Everyone else here, pretty much. That's not easy to take.

But it isn't you people have a problem with: it's your behaviour in tearing down others, telling the odd lie (you've been caught out let's face it), and your position, which is nuanced to the point of incomprehension.

I would encourage you to report the posts where you have had abuse hurled at you. The moderators here are very fair indeed, and I've been around boards a long time, and been involved in many arguments where my position goes against the general grain.

I definitely have no beef with you personally. That is of course assuming that you are a real person...and not just a name adopted for pro-prostitution lobbying purposes.

If you want Irish women to legalize prostitution (is that even what you want? aren't you against paying taxes?) or decriminalize it or whatever else, why not start a thread where you lay out a clear, concise argument as to why and how we should do so, and you might find you have more support.

For me, the strongest argument for legalization is that it might offer more security and safety (both physical and economic) to women in prostitution, preventing attacks, gang rapes etc. However I am seeing from the experience of many women that even legalizing it does not guarantee this safety, as we cannot assume that those with power can be trusted: police for example are notorious for their use of prostitutes. So I don't know what the right thing to be done is. My motivation is always going to be to care for the women involved. I think a lot of posters here feel this way. You could capitalize on this, if only you would present your arguments in a civil, respectful and coherent fashion, without denigrating other women who share their own stories about prostitution.

Wibbs · 28-02-2012 05:05PM

Derailing post by Eileen_Lang removed.

EDIT Just so ye know folks Eileen_Lang has now been sitebanned for being a rereg so there won't be any replies from the user unless they rereg again and rinse and repeat

Hope we can get back to the thread now and more people can chime in with their own views.

g'em · 28-02-2012 05:08PM

Eileen_Lang has been sitebanned. I have no issue with users opting for anonymous accounts to post, I do have issue with folk using boards as a soapboxing platform, a space to air their crusade, and the utter martyrdom shown here. The patience and good will of the posters and Mods here has been pushed to the limits and then some, enough is enough.

fatmammycat · 28-02-2012 05:10PM

From reading DCG's blog the most disturbing thing I found was the section on the reviews, it's utterly repellent that men should talk so inhumanely about the women they are 'buying'. Being aware that 'she wasn't into it', or picking over their bodies, yet still going forward and having sex. It was actully pretty bloody shocking that these 'punters' who doubtless have women they care about in their lives, can act in such a fashion.

sambuka41 · 28-02-2012 05:40PM

fatmammycat wrote: »

From reading DCG's blog the most disturbing thing I found was the section on the reviews, it's utterly repellent that men should talk so inhumanely about the women they are 'buying'. Being aware that 'she wasn't into it', or picking over their bodies, yet still going forward and having sex. It was actully pretty bloody shocking that these 'punters' who doubtless have women they care about in their lives, can act in such a fashion.

I agree this was very disturbing, maybe I am conservative but I can't imagine having sex with someone who I know doesn't want to have sex with me???

:(

They must be really immature men to put their physical needs above everything else. There is such a disconnect from their own sexuality as more than just the physical act.

newport2 · 28-02-2012 05:47PM

sambuka41 wrote: »

I agree this was very disturbing, maybe I am conservative but I can't imagine having sex with someone who I know doesn't want to have sex with me??? :(

+1000

As a man, and morals aside, this is one thing I just don't understand about men who use prostitutes. How would you not be cringing at the thought that the person you're with is most likely cringing? I cannot see the appeal in doing anything would someone who does not want you.

We were gifted with strong wrists by nature to get around this issue and that's by far the more appealling option in a time of drought.

Kooli · 28-02-2012 05:57PM

newport2 wrote: »

+1000

As a man, and morals aside, this is one thing I just don't understand about men who use prostitutes. How would you not be cringing at the thought that the person you're with is most likely cringing? I cannot see the appeal in doing anything would someone who does not want you.

Well this is the very reason why it's so important for those men to believe that the women aren't coerced, and that they are doing it of their own free will and possibly even enjoy it. Cognitive dissonance is a powerful force.

Which is why it is SO important for the sex industry to silence the voices of the prostitutes who speak out about the abuse, degradation and dehumanisation involved.

fatmammycat · 28-02-2012 06:34PM

sambuka41 wrote: »

I agree this was very disturbing, maybe I am conservative but I can't imagine having sex with someone who I know doesn't want to have sex with me??? :(

They must be really immature men to put their physical needs above everything else. There is such a disconnect from their own sexuality as more than just the physical act.

I don't think that's you being conservative, I think that's you being a decent human being.

MariaMoy · 28-02-2012 08:40PM

Hi. I'll just start by saying that I have registered this account specifically because there are some things I want to say about my prostitution past. I hope that is alright with the mods.

This has been a hard thread to read and I don't expect it to be easy to write this post either but I know I would not forgive myself if I didn't say some things about prostitution as I have experienced it.

Firstly, of all the deeply disturbing and insulting things I have read here by one particular poster, this one stands head and shoulders above the rest:

Eileen_Lang wrote: »

I would have just assumed that a choosing to be a sex worker at all would make you "pro-prostitution" by definition...

To this I would just say no, no, and no again. First of all there was precious little 'choosing' involved in my case, or in the cases of any of the innumberable women and teenaged girls I met during several years of prostitution, and the oddest thing here is that, by this posters own recorded history, there was precious little choosing involved in her case either.

Being 'pro' anything does not simply mean that you tolerate it. It means that you approve of it, that you endorse it, and that you hold it up to be acceptable, suitable, positive.. all those things. I was not, and am not, and never will be 'pro-prostitution'.

I hated every single physical act I ever had to do in prostitution, and the majority of my punters knew it too. The majority of my punters, far from being the kindly oul gents depicted here, were a shower of sleazy, pervy, selfish and often violent bastards who took great pleasure in being from a position in life to abuse my teenaged body. It happened because I was poor, because I was broke, because I had no friends or family and nobody to care about me - and they knew it, and they capitalised on it, and had great fun while they were doing so.

They were, and are, inhumane bastards and it wasn't till I visited this thread that I ever head anyone who'd been involved in prostitution say otherwise. Prostitutes are no more generally 'pro-prostitution' than turkeys are generally 'pro-Christmas' and I am sickened and appalled by the dogged attempt on here to suggest otherwise.

Also, the nonsense spouted earlier that teenaged girls did not work the red light zone pre '93 - more crap. I worked pre and after '93 and I worked alongside numerous girls in their early and mid teens.

Getting back to the actual subject of this thread, DublinCallGirls blog, yes her blog is authentic. There's no doubt in my mind it's authentic. Not unless the woman is a highly-gifted psychic would she be able to understand and transcribe the deeply painful experience of prostitution with such astonishing accuracy. Her story and mine are very different. We came to prostitution at different times and at different ages via different backgrounds and for different reasons, yet the inner feelings provoked by our experiences are so close to identical as to be deeply traumatic for me to read, they cause such a sense of dejavu for me. I would stake my life that her blog is authentic and my heart goes out to her. I wish her the very best.

I guess that's really all I want to say, except that I'd like to add that attitudes held by men like Sambuka41 were, in large part, responsible for my healing. It was men who thought and behaved like you Sambuka41 who allowed me to believe that I could recover from the abuse of so many others of the opposite mindset. And it has nothing to do with conservatism - it has to do with humanity and kindness and simple decency, as another poster pointed out. For you and for all the many other honorable men out there, you'll never know how much you all have helped me to move on. I thank you sincerely for that.

kryogen · 28-02-2012 08:48PM

Speaking from some experience, though absolutely none personally, the lure of prostitution for some men is definitely that they want to try things that they are afraid to ask their partners or other girls and feel like the best way to experience it is to pay some woman to do it with them.

this was the case for a friend of mine anyway, he wanted to try anal sex, had a steady girlfriend but couldnt ask her to try it, she had already made it very clear to him that it wasnt something she was into anyway so he paid a prostitute who offered the service.

4 years on he and the girl are still together, it did come out btw, he did confess and after a lot of him sleeping on my couch they worked it out. She is a lot more forgiving/understanding than a lot I would think, but she accepted that it was just something he felt he had to get out of his system and now that he had that was it.

He didnt cheat on her cause he fancied someone else or because he was unhappy in the relationship or anything. He simply wanted to do that and knew he would have to go elsewhere for it

I will regret telling that story I'm sure as some people will naturally think its me but I swear on my daughter that it wasn't!

I personally couldn't use a prostitute, regardless of the situation, I just couldn't go through with it knowing that the person didn't actually want to sleep with me, was probably disgusted by me and tbh I wouldn't want it if anyone could buy it!

Just wouldn't feel right, both from a selfish point of view and looking at it through the eyes of the woman in question.

Edit: Just to add, from a psychological point of view I think a lot of the men who use prostitutes like the power it brings them, the feeling that they are in control. The sex itself is possibly secondary to a lot of the "punters"

It really isn't that hard to go out and meet a woman tbh

Scanlas The 2nd · 28-02-2012 09:28PM

sambuka41 wrote: »

fatmammycat wrote: »

From reading DCG's blog the most disturbing thing I found was the section on the reviews, it's utterly repellent that men should talk so inhumanely about the women they are 'buying'. Being aware that 'she wasn't into it', or picking over their bodies, yet still going forward and having sex. It was actully pretty bloody shocking that these 'punters' who doubtless have women they care about in their lives, can act in such a fashion.

I agree this was very disturbing, maybe I am conservative but I can't imagine having sex with someone who I know doesn't want to have sex with me??? :(

They must be really immature men to put their physical needs above everything else. There is such a disconnect from their own sexuality as more than just the physical act.

I'd say there are a lot of men out there having sex with wives who don want to have sex with them but do it anyway.

Ickle Magoo · 28-02-2012 10:30PM

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'd say there are a lot of men out there having sex with wives who don want to have sex with them but do it anyway.

What has this got to do with this thread?

strandroad · 28-02-2012 10:31PM

MariaMoy wrote: »

This has been a hard thread to read and I don't expect it to be easy to write this post either but I know I would not forgive myself if I didn't say some things about prostitution as I have experienced it.

Maria, thank you for your voice and story... If it's not too upsetting to talk about, could I ask for your opinion on the matter discussed earlier in the thread - that is, the view that for girls and women who have no means of support and cannot turn to welfare, prostitution is a lifeline and for this reason should be kept ("punters as ATMs on legs" theory). I have been thinking about this angle for a while but I know it's only theorising.

In your actual experience, if prostitution was not a viable option for you at the time (for example, if it was illegal and policed so that you'd get arrested the moment you showed up for work) what do you think would have happened to you? Would you survive otherwise? Looking back, do you appreciate this avenue being there then? Or would you prefer to have been "forced" to look for other options?
Also, seeing how much has changed economically, politically, welfare wise etc, how would you assess this lifeline aspect today?

Stella Marr · 29-02-2012 03:38AM

Maria, thank you so much for your courage and truth. XOXO

midlandsmissus · 29-02-2012 05:03AM

kryogen wrote: »

Speaking from some experience, though absolutely none personally, the lure of prostitution for some men is definitely that they want to try things that they are afraid to ask their partners or other girls and feel like the best way to experience it is to pay some woman to do it with them.

this was the case for a friend of mine anyway, he wanted to try anal sex, had a steady girlfriend but couldnt ask her to try it, she had already made it very clear to him that it wasnt something she was into anyway so he paid a prostitute who offered the service.

4 years on he and the girl are still together, it did come out btw, he did confess and after a lot of him sleeping on my couch they worked it out. She is a lot more forgiving/understanding than a lot I would think, but she accepted that it was just something he felt he had to get out of his system and now that he had that was it.

He didnt cheat on her cause he fancied someone else or because he was unhappy in the relationship or anything. He simply wanted to do that and knew he would have to go elsewhere for it

I will regret telling that story I'm sure as some people will naturally think its me but I swear on my daughter that it wasn't!

I personally couldn't use a prostitute, regardless of the situation, I just couldn't go through with it knowing that the person didn't actually want to sleep with me, was probably disgusted by me and tbh I wouldn't want it if anyone could buy it!

Just wouldn't feel right, both from a selfish point of view and looking at it through the eyes of the woman in question.

Edit: Just to add, from a psychological point of view I think a lot of the men who use prostitutes like the power it brings them, the feeling that they are in control. The sex itself is possibly secondary to a lot of the "punters"

It really isn't that hard to go out and meet a woman tbh

I'd say these men at no point stop to think that the woman hates every second of it and he is contributing to damaging her.
Lets face it, it's too awful to let themselves think about it. They need to be able to brush it off.

midlandsmissus · 29-02-2012 05:06AM

Kooli wrote: »

Well this is the very reason why it's so important for those men to believe that the women aren't coerced, and that they are doing it of their own free will and possibly even enjoy it. Cognitive dissonance is a powerful force.

Which is why it is SO important for the sex industry to silence the voices of the prostitutes who speak out about the abuse, degradation and dehumanisation involved.

Exactly, if he knew she cried at the thought of what she'd just done would that ruin his experience? Would he care? That's why they distance themselves from the prostitutes mentally.

sambuka41 · 29-02-2012 10:21AM

MariaMoy wrote: »

I guess that's really all I want to say, except that I'd like to add that attitudes held by men like Sambuka41 were, in large part, responsible for my healing. It was men who thought and behaved like you Sambuka41 who allowed me to believe that I could recover from the abuse of so many others of the opposite mindset. And it has nothing to do with conservatism - it has to do with humanity and kindness and simple decency, as another poster pointed out. For you and for all the many other honorable men out there, you'll never know how much you all have helped me to move on. I thank you sincerely for that.

I'm actually a girl

but I get what you mean, and fair play for sharing your story here especially in the face of the silencing tactics of one poster in particular, its brave to come on and share.

I have been blessed to be surrounded by some really decent male friends that when I encountered in my dating life, these types of guys who were pushy with sex (one really not so nice incident) I was shocked. My experience of men had been so positive that I had thought all men were the same, that sex was just as intimate an experience for them and not purely about the physical act. I still cant get my head around them.

I think its sad that someone like Eileen has been around this type of crapy man for so long that she hasn't come to expect any better, that somehow if they aren't overtly violent that makes them nice???

kryogen · 29-02-2012 10:49AM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I'd say these men at no point stop to think that the woman hates every second of it and he is contributing to damaging her.
Lets face it, it's too awful to let themselves think about it. They need to be able to brush it off.

I would agree, I think the men involved tend to completely distance themselves mentally from the women as humans, and see them more as toys or something along the lines of real life porn for themselves.

To see them as human I dont see how you could do it, the thought of their emotional state would be a bit too much.

There is a flip side to the coin of course

ShiftStorm · 29-02-2012 11:31AM

Sambuka, I'd reckon Eileen is actually a man, and a punter/pimp at that.

Maria, thanks so much for sharing your story. DCG and brave women like you are making something that has been veiled for so long so real for me. I think a lot of the people commenting on this thread would love to know how to help or to make a difference somehow for the many women still trapped in prostitution. I know I do.

sambuka41 wrote: »

I'm actually a girl but I get what you mean, and fair play for sharing your story here especially in the face of the silencing tactics of one poster in particular, its brave to come on and share.

I have been blessed to be surrounded by some really decent male friends that when I encountered in my dating life, these types of guys who were pushy with sex (one really not so nice incident) I was shocked. My experience of men had been so positive that I had thought all men were the same, that sex was just as intimate an experience for them and not purely about the physical act. I still cant get my head around them.

I think its sad that someone like Eileen has been around this type of crapy man for so long that she hasn't come to expect any better, that somehow if they aren't overtly violent that makes them nice???

Secret Diary of a Dublin Call Girl

Comments