North West NO GI 25th March 2012

manga_10 · 20-02-2012 8:36pm #1

Next North West NoGi on 25th March at long tower community centre in Derry

Still great value at 10 pound entry

We shall revert to a decision being made if fights go the 5 minutes

More details to follow

slammer187 · 20-02-2012 8:51pm

Will it be Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced or done by belt also are all subs legal or will it be done as per IBJJF rules and......will there be an absolute?

Chris89 · 22-02-2012 2:48pm

We shall revert to a decision being made if fights go the 5 minutes

Why, when there is a perfect scoring system available for use... do you try and run tournaments like this?

manga_10 · 22-02-2012 3:31pm

Sorry guys to clear things up , I posted this from the facebook page so that everyone would be kept up on the details for the competition.I'm sure Jason will let everyone know as the details becoming readily available. Sorry for the inconvenience

Jason McCabe · 22-02-2012 3:46pm

Chris89 wrote: »

We shall revert to a decision being made if fights go the 5 minutes

Why, when there is a perfect scoring system available for use... do you try and run tournaments like this?

This is not a BJJ comp. It is meant to appeal to people who wrestle, do BJJ, train traditional JuJitsu, MMA or judo

The first one we ran had no issues. We tried something different at last comp and it did not work.

Peter Lavery and Aidan Marron have agreed to ref this one

We are more than happy to receive any feedback as it helps us improve.

slammer187 · 22-02-2012 5:05pm

Jason McCabe wrote: »

This is not a BJJ comp. It is meant to appeal to people who wrestle, do BJJ, train traditional JuJitsu, MMA or judo

The first one we ran had no issues. We tried something different at last comp and it did not work.

Peter Lavery and Aidan Marron have agreed to ref this one

We are more than happy to receive any feedback as it helps us improve.

But you score point when you achieve a dominant position, surely this understanding is universal through all grappling systems

Jason McCabe · 22-02-2012 5:34pm

The refs and two judges will decide who was more dominant throughout the round if it goes to a decision

That seems pretty fair to me

da-bres · 22-02-2012 6:22pm

From what I have heard and seen of the previous tournaments, I shall not be attending.

MarkB_ · 22-02-2012 6:39pm

Jason McCabe wrote: »

This is not a BJJ comp. It is meant to appeal to people who wrestle, do BJJ, train traditional JuJitsu, MMA or judo

I would have thought the majority of competitors train BJJ though, and most people who train MMA would train BJJ (as part of MMA); do you know if you have been getting roughly an equal amount of people from each area? Otherwise it would seem that a well known rule system is being disregarded for the sake of a slim minority.

It's not like there are many grappling arts that discourage mounting someone or sweeping them. Judges decisions (even as high profile as the UFC) can often be controversial while point systems are rarely so, as long as they are clear beforehand. It just seems that using the IBJJF point system would leave less room for error.

Jason McCabe · 22-02-2012 6:54pm

Well lads I can tell you this. This competition will be run better than the last one. We will also be running more in future. We aim to improve everytime we do something whether it be Chaos or these competitions. Will we make some mistakes. Yes of course. Will we learn from them yes.

People in the north west need competitions on their door step to help them improve. We are doing our best to provide that for them

Jason McCabe · 22-02-2012 7:31pm

MarkB_ wrote: »

Jason McCabe wrote: »

This is not a BJJ comp. It is meant to appeal to people who wrestle, do BJJ, train traditional JuJitsu, MMA or judo

I would have thought the majority of competitors train BJJ though, and most people who train MMA would train BJJ (as part of MMA); do you know if you have been getting roughly an equal amount of people from each area? Otherwise it would seem that a well known rule system is being disregarded for the sake of a slim minority.

It's not like there are many grappling arts that discourage mounting someone or sweeping them. Judges decisions (even as high profile as the UFC) can often be controversial while point systems are rarely so, as long as they are clear beforehand. It just seems that using the IBJJF point system would leave less room for error.

At the last two comps less than half were BJJ. Traditional JJ and MMA are far more prevalent up here

Marcus.phelan · 22-02-2012 9:09pm

never goin back to that, not worth the trek

Chris89 · 22-02-2012 11:04pm

How does someone expect to win if they do not score a takedown, sweep, pass, mount, back control or a submission? It doesnt matter what style of grappling a competitor is from, even if theyre grappling background is 'mma'..... They will need to do one or more of the above techniques to win a match.

Why leave the decision up to someone who still uses the term 'butscooting' when there is a perfect points system, albeit one used in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu tournaments.. which awards for techniques universal to all styles of grappling and which are vital to win a fight where strikes are not allowed.

Nice to see you took all of the suggestions from the last thread on board.

Best of luck with it anyway, I wont be attending.

Chris89 · 22-02-2012 11:10pm

Jason McCabe wrote: »

The refs and two judges will decide who was more dominant throughout the round if it goes to a decision

That seems pretty fair to me

I think you stand alone with this one, Jason. I expect you will have your hands full as in my experience 5 minute matches go the distance more often than not.
Especially at the beginner and intermediate levels.

P.s. How are Aidan and Peter going to decide the winner? Will they assess who has 'scored' the most 'scoring' moves? Or will the bouts be judged on style control damage and aggression?

MarkB_ · 24-02-2012 2:02am

Jason McCabe wrote: »

At the last two comps less than half were BJJ. Traditional JJ and MMA are far more prevalent up here

Well, I looked up traditional JJ rules and points are awarded for throws and passing the guard (called "Osae-komi") so I don't think any traditional JJ practitioners would be lost in IBJJF rules. The reason to use the IBJJF rules is that they are more commonplace and used at high levels. And as for MMA, BJJ is so often the grappling component in it that it doesn't even make sense to differentiate the two for a grappling competition.

Of course, at the end of the day, it's your competition and you seem adamant about the judges decision method, but as you said, you want all the feedback you can get.

OLDMAN1 · 25-02-2012 1:06pm

MarkB_ wrote: »

And as for MMA, BJJ is so often the grappling component in it that it doesn't even make sense to differentiate the two for a grappling competition.

i watched cage warriors 45 the other night, from what i could see half the guys were bjj and the other half were sambo and judo..

i dont know the guy thats running this competition buts its a competition so why not just enter it and get some experience, just because the rules are not exactly what you normally do shouldn't matter. i think its a bit childish to say if your not doing it my way, im not playing. surely the more competitions held in Ireland the better...

Jason McCabe · 25-02-2012 5:35pm

The most dominant sport in MMA is actually wrestling

The biggest and most prestigious competition in grappling does actually not use BJJ rules

slammer187 · 25-02-2012 5:39pm

We never asked that you use the bjj point system, we've said that it's the best but all that we want is a system where points are awarded for dominant positions and techniques.....kind of like what they do in the ADCC

EnjoyChoke · 25-02-2012 5:52pm

Jason McCabe wrote: »

The biggest and most prestigious competition in grappling does actually not use BJJ rules

The Mundials?

Chris89 · 25-02-2012 6:57pm

The biggest and most prestigious competition in grappling does actually not use BJJ rules

ADCC?

Mount position = 2 points
Back mount with hooks = 3 points
Passing the guard = 3 points
Knee on stomach = 2 points
Clean Sweep = 4 points
Sweep = 2 Points
Clean Take down (Ends passed the guard)= 4 points
Take down (Ends Guard or Half Guard)= 2 points

slammer187 · 25-02-2012 6:59pm

Chris89 wrote: »

ADCC?

Mount position = 2 points
Back mount with hooks = 3 points
Passing the guard = 3 points
Knee on stomach = 2 points
Clean Sweep = 4 points
Sweep = 2 Points
Clean Take down (Ends passed the guard)= 4 points
Take down (Ends Guard or Half Guard)= 2 points

Running the ADCC on judge's decision would make more sense :cool:

Chris89 · 25-02-2012 7:14pm

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

i dont know the guy that's running this competition buts its a competition so why not just enter it and get some experience, just because the rules are not exactly what you normally do shouldn't matter. i think its a bit childish to say if your not doing it my way, im not playing. surely the more competitions held in Ireland the better...

Very true, good points.

However, a number of the people commenting in this last thread actually were at the last competition, and afterwards expressed their concerns with how some of the matches were decided (first to a take down wins) I actually won a couple of matches this way, but still thought it an unfair way to decide the winner of a match.

A points system is undoubtedly the fairest way to decide a winner in the absence of a submission, it doesn't even have to be the bjj points system, just one where dominant positions are rewarded on the scoreboard. There is absolutely no argument for a refs decision, this just allows for too many mistakes and I'm sure the individuals making the decision will have the ears chewed off them should they make a dubious call.

A points system doesn't favor any particular style, nor does it disadvantage anyone.

MarkB_ · 25-02-2012 8:20pm

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

i think its a bit childish to say if your not doing it my way, im not playing. surely the more competitions held in Ireland the better...

It definitely is, but I wasn't saying that at all. I don't mean to sound like I'll only be attending if IBJJF rules are used. Truth is I have no idea if I'll be able to go but I just don't think a judges decision is a good idea.

Jason McCabe wrote: »

The most dominant sport in MMA is actually wrestling

It probably is because wrestling in high school and college is hugely popular in America. However, I would think that there are more BJJ schools in Ireland than there are wrestling schools.

PinkPants · 01-03-2012 10:22pm

How do i sign up sir? hopefully guard players who are doing all the work on bottom get recognition this time :P

Jason McCabe · 07-03-2012 1:21pm

Ok folks we have amended rules after listening to concerns rules as follows

No heel hooks
No cranks
No toe holds teens
No flying submissions teens

Fights goes distance. Goes to points
5 minute round
Upper weight limit 120 kgs

Sections

Teens
Under 60,70,80 over 80

Beginner
Under 60,70,80, 90 over 90

Intermediate
Under 60,70,80, 90 over 90

Advanced
Under 80 and over

Mount position = 2 points
Back mount with hooks = 3 points
Passing the guard = 3 points
Knee on stomach = 2 points
Clean Sweep = 4 points
Sweep = 2 Points
Clean Take down (Ends passed the guard)= 4 points
Take down (Ends Guard or Half Guard)= 2 points
Sitting down = -1
Submission attempt = 2 points

Registration will be done online. Will post link next week as site is not 100% finished

slammer187 · 07-03-2012 10:53pm

Will spinal locks be allowed?

manga_10 · 08-03-2012 12:09am

No cranks

Jason McCabe · 17-03-2012 1:03am

Register here

http://www.evolvemartialarts.com/competitions/

Rules here

http://www.evolvemartialarts.com/competitions/rules/no-gi/

10 pound entry

Address here
Long Tower Youth & Community Centre
Long Tower Centre,
Ann Street,
Derry
BT48 6PB

Weigh ins from 10am to 11am
Sunday 25th March

Jason McCabe · 20-03-2012 11:13am

Entries are coming in rightly now

Register now. Event this weekend

Only 10 pound to enter

wingnut4 · 21-03-2012 10:35am

This is a great competition, great gym too. For a tenner its defintely worth the experience and its good to see that people arent ripping you off either

manga_10 · 21-03-2012 1:34pm

wingnut4 wrote: »

This is a great competition, great gym too. For a tenner its defintely worth the experience and its good to see that people arent ripping you off either

Many entering from kyojin then ?

North West NO GI 25th March 2012

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