Severe Social Shyness - How Much Of A Problem Is It??

Lord TSC · 25-02-2012 02:13PM

Then you've been defeated before you even tried to pick up your sword

Tbh, I've seen alcohol do enough damage to never want to "pick up the sword"...

paddyandy · 25-02-2012 02:18PM

Shyness is the presence of Modesty in a person .

Logical Fallacy · 25-02-2012 02:21PM

Adamantium wrote: »

Then you've been defeated before you even tried to pick up your sword

Adamantium · 25-02-2012 02:21PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Tbh, I've seen alcohol do enough damage to never want to "pick up the sword"...

Metaphor Jim, metaphor

Logical Fallacy · 25-02-2012 02:25PM

Adamantium wrote: »

Metaphor Jim, metaphor

More hypocatastasis than metaphor i reckon.

take everything · 25-02-2012 02:46PM

Not sure about shyness per se, but i admire people who can do their own thing and not get caught up in the whole social thing.
It's such a refreshing change to the almost de rigeur, group-emboldened obnoxiousness of many so-called social people.

But yeah, the attitude to any reserve nowadays is almost fascistic.

Old Tom · 25-02-2012 03:04PM

6th wrote: »

Don't see them at orgies either?

Not really, no..

patneve2 · 25-02-2012 03:15PM

Unfortunately western society rewards the extrovert, we are all expected to be extroverts in this society. I was I had been born Japanese where introversion is seen as the norm and people are more modest

TheZohanS · 25-02-2012 03:21PM

patneve2 wrote: »

Unfortunately western society rewards the extrovert, we are all expected to be extroverts in this society. I was I had been born Japanese where introversion is seen as the norm and people are more modest

You can always move there.

Killer Wench · 25-02-2012 03:30PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Christ not another pretty spurious "medical condition" they can medicate for? A pill for every ill. Make the GP's life easier I suppose. "Take this and get back to me". Plus of course when these things get medicalised, people who are a little introverted or shy and otherwise fine tend to get caught in the wider cast net. Which is bollocks in my humble. Some people are more quiet than others and absolutely nothing worng with that if they're happy out and can live a full life.

IMHO anyway it's not a medical condition, or very rarely. It's a screw up or delay in social maturity in those more prone to it. It's situational, social and upbringing. While as a society we have developed many more ways to communicate interpersonally, personal one on one "natural"(though I hate that word) interaction can be lessened and avoided much more today. Technology like the interweb also increases self diagnosis and group think influence and can provide an existing community who back up someone's self diagnosis and "condition". Plus in a world where it's all too easy to feel like just another beige cog in the machine, more and more people seek to be "different" and will seek out others who are almost identically "different" to them. People who are actually different tend to want to be like everyone else in my experience. So someone with a built in tendency for shyness is enabled more. If they hit their teens being enabled by society (+ peers and parents) then it's likely to become a chronic problem.

I seriously suspect severe social shyness is incredibly rare in more primitive societies, except for those rare case where it is a mental condition with actual pathology. Why? Because such societies rarely have "alone" time. An individual is in almost constant daily one on one contact with other members of that society. They're "immunised" so to speak against this(and other social/mental conditions) from a very early age.

It makes sense. After all we are a social animal and have been from the get go. Modern society allows us to feed certain aspects of that need. Just enough to sate us, but not always in a healthy way. Like the cliche of the nerd choking the chicken to porn* on his pc while his flesh and blood girlfriend is upstairs in bed alone, facebook, twitter, online gaming/communities and the like might be akin to a kind of social pornography, that screws with the real deal.

I reckon we're going to see more and more of this "condition" as the years pass until we adapt to it. A pill is unlikely to change that, it'll just paper over the cracks. Like people who are depressed because of situational stresses rather than anything particularly "inbuilt", it'll aneasthetise, rather than tackle the underlying issue.

Fair play to the OP Cybercubed. He immunised himself through hard work and putting aside his ego. He matured his own social interaction that had been otherwise delayed. Can't have been easy. Kudos.

*recent thing I read apparently found porn watching can lead to loss of libido and impotence in men as they're over stimulated. Interesting stuff.

Whoa... whoa... there.

It is already a medical condition called "social anxiety disorder". I was diagnosed with anxiety disorder with agoraphobia years ago after the death of my roommate, friend, and grandfather all within a six month period. I've always been a naturally reserved person who would sit amongst a crowd and observe people until I had gained a sense of each personality around me. After their deaths, it became much more difficult for me to engage with them. I would sit in a room full of people and it would feel as if I was pushed into a black hole where I am drowning in water. I would emotionally and mentally try to fight my way to the surface; sometimes I was successful and othertimes I wasn't.

It grew to the point that I would be on a bus and I would have thoughts of ripping my clothes off, shredding my skin with my finger nails, and then jumping in front of the bus just to get over the feeling of dread. Sitting in a classroom, I wanted to pick up my laptop, scream, yell, and bang my head until it bled. When I was with people, I would retreat from them and they could feel it. I don't know how many times I made a party uncomfortable because I was in the middle of a anxiety episode. At the time, I didn't know what was happening; I just know that my friends kept forcing me to interact with them and I kept wanting to stay in my room and not deal with people because of the stress and dread.

Different people deal with it differently. I was prescribed medication but it didn't work for me and now I manage it by exercising and knowing my limits. I still hate walking into malls or crowded shopping centers because of it, but I have just adapted my schedule.

I know that for some people it seems like a bogus condition but it is a mentally stressful and physically harmful one to have. I am glad that the OP believes that he suffered from "extreme shyness" and a not a mild case of social anxiety disorder.

patneve2 · 25-02-2012 03:35PM

Killer Wench wrote: »

Whoa... whoa... there.

It is already a medical condition called "social anxiety disorder". I was diagnosed with anxiety disorder with agoraphobia years ago after the death of my roommate, friend, and grandfather all within a six month period. I've always been a naturally reserved person who would sit amongst a crowd and observe people until I had gained a sense of each personality around me. After their deaths, it became much more difficult for me to engage with them. I would sit in a room full of people and it would feel as if I was pushed into a black hole where I am drowning in water. I would emotionally and mentally try to fight my way to the surface; sometimes I was successful and othertimes I wasn't.

It grew to the point that I would be on a bus and I would have thoughts of ripping my clothes off, shredding my skin with my finger nails, and then jumping in front of the bus just to get over the feeling of dread. Sitting in a classroom, I wanted to pick up my laptop, scream, yell, and bang my head until it bled. When I was with people, I would retreat from them and they could feel it. I don't know how many times I made a party uncomfortable because I was in the middle of a anxiety episode. At the time, I didn't know what was happening; I just know that my friends kept forcing me to interact with them and I kept wanting to stay in my room and not deal with people because of the stress and dread.

Different people deal with it differently. I was prescribed medication but it didn't work for me and now I manage it by exercising and knowing my limits. I still hate walking into malls or crowded shopping centers because of it, but I have just adapted my schedule.

I know that for some people it seems like a bogus condition but it is a mentally stressful and physically harmful one to have. I am glad that the OP believes that he suffered from "extreme shyness" and a not a mild case of social anxiety disorder.

unfortunately i am experiencing this right now. i was always socially awkward but for various reasons i have now dissociated completely. I suffer from de-realization and I am in a constant 'dream' state. The paranoia that comes that this brings on and the vicious thought cycle is devastating. I relate to you completely, and I know exactly how you felt/feel. IF YOU DON'T EXPERIENCE THESE LEVELS OF ANXIETY ON YOUR SKIN, YOU DO NOT REALIZE HOW HARD LIFE CAN BE.

Randomer. · 25-02-2012 03:48PM

Its a pretty big problem imo. Shyness is spat on in Irish society anyway. No one can be shy, no, they are just stuck up... standoffish assholes or weirdos and so on.

Everything about the way society works hammers home that shy people do not belong. Do not deserve love or happyness and are open to insult because they can't find such things.

Life/society is set up to be enjoyed by particular personality types. If you are not one of these personality types then you simply have to get used to a continues state of unhappyness as suicide is taboo or considered selfish.

smokedeels · 25-02-2012 03:58PM

I feel anxious and a little shy in crowds, but I'm considered a social person. You just need to push passed it I guess. I think a lot of people assume others are more confindent than they are.

I think back to being a teenager and people I knew who slagged of others to build their own confidence up, I guess it still happens in adult circles too.

People are mostly good sorts in my experience and we should all try to make each-other feel at ease more, we'd all have a better time.

HAAA! HAAA! · 25-02-2012 04:11PM

All people can and do change in their socializing, its not strictly an intrinsic personality thing or sign of internal weakness or shyness.

Extreme example - that model girl who had acid thrown on her face, she said she didn't go outside for years. Obviously she would have been high up the social scale and very sociable beforehand.

Physical conditions and other parts of life beyond the persons control change a persons sociability, ask a woman with cramps if you dare.

Spread · 25-02-2012 04:11PM

I would have thought that shyness is related to self esteem and "self"-inflicted social isolation to be part of the Asperger's spectrum.
The OP did well in fronting his difficulties and addressing them.

This story has been doing the rounds over the past few weeks

Shyness could be defined as a mental illness
Shyness, bereavement and eccentric behaviour could be classed as a mental illness under new guidelines, leaving millions of people at risk of being diagnosed as having a psychiatric disorder, experts fear.

Photo: Getty Images

Under changes planned to the diagnosis handbook used by doctors in the US, common behavioural traits are likely to be listed as a mental illness, it was reported.

The fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) of Mental Disorders could also include internet addiction and gambling as a medical problem.

Although the guidelines are not used in the UK, experts said they feared it would affect thinking on the subjects.

"We need to be very careful before further broadening the boundaries of illness and disorder," Simon Wessely, of the Institute of Psychiatry at King's College London, told the Daily Telegraph

"Back in 1840 the census of the United States included just one category for mental disorder.

"By 1917 the American Psychiatric Association recognised 59, rising to 128 in 1959, 227 in 1980, and 347 in the last revision. Do we really need all these labels?
"Probably not. And there is a real danger that shyness will become social phobia, bookish kids labelled as Asperger's and so on."
Peter Kinderman, head of the Institute of Psychology at the University of Liverpool, said it was not "humane" to describe shy or bereaved people as "mentally ill".
The British Psychological Society has opposed the changes to the DSM while psychiatrists in the US have also spoken out against them.
A petition launched to try to stop the publication of the new edition was backed by 11,000 signatures from psychologists.
There are fears the new classifications are being driven by drug companies seeking to profit from a greater number of illnesses while the private health care system in the States requires a diagnosis recognised by the manual for a patient to be treated as ill.
"DSM5 will radically and recklessly expand the boundaries of psychiatry. Many millions will receive inaccurate diagnosis and inappropriate treatment.," said Allen Frances of Duke University, North Carolina.

HOS 1997 · 25-02-2012 04:34PM

Shyness is nice, and
Shyness can stop you
From doing all the things in life
You'd like to
Shyness is nice, and
Shyness can stop you
From doing all the things in life
You'd like to

Good post OP. Definitely something I experienced in my younger years (teens and early twenties). Like you, I did things to get over it but I can still suffer from it on occasion.

Scanlas The 2nd · 25-02-2012 05:27PM

I think shyness has a lot to do with too much ego. Shy people IMO are very identified with their self image so end up not saying much for fear of their self image being invalidated. They think far too much.

Lord TSC · 25-02-2012 05:28PM

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I think shyness has a lot to do with too much ego. Shy people IMO are very identified with their self image so end up not saying much for fear of their self image being invalidated. They think far too much.

I kind of agree but with a difference; I'm often afraid that by talking, I'll confirm their problems with me are true; its the idea of saying nothing and letting them think you're weird as opposed to speak and proving to them you are. :P

Agricola · 25-02-2012 05:29PM

Id have a mild case of this. My natural preference is to be with my small group of friends, or to be alone doing my own thing. I find meeting new people, small talk and all that goes with it to be a drain. After a few hours in that situation its like a weight being lifted when its over. I would avoid those situations unless they were really necessary.

I do find it annoying that people like me are viewed as some sort of oddballs in society. I know people who are my polar opposite, never off the phone to their 101 friends, facebook 24/7, always planning the next night out, the next holiday, have to go out religiously every weekend because to stay in is just...loike pathetic! So if these people can happily exist in this world, why cant the people on the other side of the fence.

TeddyTedson · 25-02-2012 05:33PM

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Being shy is different from being introverted. Plenty of introverted people are not shy at all, and have no problem talking to strangers, or with social interactions. Introverts just find social situations draining, and would prefer to be left by themselves to relax.

There are also plenty of shy extroverts, who want to go out, make friends and party, but are held back by shyness, which is basically fear of being judged by others, and a lack of knowledge how to approach people.

I don't want to nitpick here but,

introvert |ˈintrəˌvərt|
noun
a shy, reticent, and typically self-centered person.
• Psychology a person predominantly concerned with their own thoughts and feelings rather than with external things. Compare with extrovert .

extrovert |ˈekstrəˌvərt| (also extravert)
noun
an outgoing, overtly expressive person.
• Psychology a person predominantly concerned with external things or objective considerations. Compare with introvert .

nyarlothothep · 25-02-2012 05:41PM

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I think shyness has a lot to do with too much ego. Shy people IMO are very identified with their self image so end up not saying much for fear of their self image being invalidated. They think far too much.

I think its moreso to do with the fact that past experiences of rejection/bullying lead a shy person to view other humans as potential threats, hence its a defence mechanism against real or perceived threats. Given the way society stigmatizes shy people you can't really expect anything less. A good reflection on this discrimination is Star Trek episode Hollow Pursuits, Lt. Barclay is a very shy introverted individual but he's hardly helped out of it when he's treated like sh1t by the other crewmembers like Riker or Wesley. I hear this phrase "you're thinking too much." I think if anything society, people in general don't think enough. I'm not taking issue with your use of the phrase here, it can be the case that shy people build up a world of imagined scenarios and it would be better to not do this, to act rather than think, but I sense that in mainstream society there is an open hostility towards thinking and introversion, because those qualities of course represent a threat to the consensus/the status quo, perhaps it is imported from American culture which favours extroversion and action. In Asian societies introversion seems to be much more accepted, however there is still a hostility towards independent thinking. I think both of these qualities should be celebrated rather than hated because its through independent thinking and a focus on academic/scientific/artistic disciplines rather than on socialising/conforming that great achievements have been made which have pushed human socities forward. Extrovert party animals should be grateful to introverts for having given them facebook where they can socialise away etc.

25-02-2012 05:55PM

take everything wrote: »

Not sure about shyness per se, but i admire people who can do their own thing and not get caught up in the whole social thing.
It's such a refreshing change to the almost de rigeur, group-emboldened obnoxiousness of many so-called social people.

But yeah, the attitude to any reserve nowadays is almost fascistic.

Yep. And it's getting worse and worse, I think. Being loud, obnoxious, shallow, unreliable and arrogant makes you a 'social butterfly', while being reserved and thoughtful makes you a weirdo, a snob, standoffish and rude. People these days don't seem to appreciate people who are actually decent, they just want to be entertained, IMO. With a few notable exceptions, the 'popular' people I've met have all been pretty horrible underneath their fake 'look at me, I'm so friendly and bubbly and fun!' facade.

HUNK · 25-02-2012 05:58PM

I'm very much like this now OP. I'm only 20 but I do have very severe shyness or social anxiety rather. For me it kind of creeped up on me in my early teens, and then gradually got worse over the years. I reckon I'm getting a better grasp on it now though.

I always feared what people thought of me, or that I might do or say something stupid. I've always had friends, but as I got older I began to become more withdrawn from my social life due to the anxiety, so it is certainly self-inflicted. I was quite sheltered when I was younger but I have started to break away from it, trying harder and harder to become more independant, though I still have to rely on my parents every now and again. This fear of being evealuated is kind of annoying as it kicks in almost all areas of life. I found that I have to keep reminding myself how inaccurate these thoughts are and stay rational, and realise that these fears are quite exaggerated.

I'm starting to realise more and more that I need to expose myself to more social situations, to keep challenging any irrational thoughts I have, and to realise that it is okay to make mistakes.

I've had my fair share of remarks. People have thought I was stuck up or snooty, or that I didn't like them, or that I disliked people in general when in reality I was terrified!

Funnily enough I met up with a group of people who have the same problem as I do. A bunch of severly shy strangers - you can imagine how that went :pac:

Killer Wench · 25-02-2012 06:31PM

patneve2 wrote: »

unfortunately i am experiencing this right now. i was always socially awkward but for various reasons i have now dissociated completely. I suffer from de-realization and I am in a constant 'dream' state. The paranoia that comes that this brings on and the vicious thought cycle is devastating. I relate to you completely, and I know exactly how you felt/feel. IF YOU DON'T EXPERIENCE THESE LEVELS OF ANXIETY ON YOUR SKIN, YOU DO NOT REALIZE HOW HARD LIFE CAN BE.

If you can, talk with your doctor. My episodes escalated to the point that I was having heart palpitations and night terrors. I was at the end of my final semester in law school and I was representing clients. I had an episode right before a hearing and I could have adversely affected the outcome of her case if not for my professor stepping in. She made me go into a doctor and it was then that I was diagnosed.

If you can learn your stress levels, then you can control it through breathing, temporary escape, and other activities. Good luck. My PM box is open.

KyussBishop · 25-02-2012 06:34PM

Ya, I've been like that for about 10-12 years now, and it's an ongoing issue for me; mental health issues in general are very poorly understood in this country, and there is a stigma associated with many issues unfortunately.

I think social issues in particular, are some of the least understood and most stigmatized (not openly stigmatized either, maybe not even consciously, it can just inherently limit how people interact with you);
you can have depression and still function reasonably well socially, but if you have social issues it is all to easy to be isolated entirely (including isolating yourself), and to just coast along like that for years.

That's one of the things that makes it all the more imperative to get help early on, preferably before it takes hold; you can lose quite a lot of time to it.

Well done OP for overcoming all of that; as someone else said, it is a tricky situation as aspects of it do become an actual part of your personality, with positive aspects (mixed with the negative) which can be hard to let go of or compromise on.
With that in mind for me, I'm not quite sure what I want socially yet, which makes things all the more confusing.

Killer Wench · 25-02-2012 06:36PM

From Wikipedia:

Behavioural aspects
Social anxiety disorder is a persistent fear of one or more situations in which the person is exposed to possible scrutiny by others and fears that he or she may do something or act in a way that will be humiliating or embarrassing. It exceeds normal "shyness" as it leads to excessive social avoidance and substantial social or occupational impairment. Feared activities may include almost any type of social interaction, especially small groups, dating, parties, talking to strangers, restaurants, etc. Possible physical symptoms include "mind going blank", fast heartbeat, difficulty breathing, blushing, stomach ache, nausea and gagging. Cognitive distortions are a hallmark, and learned about in CBT (cognitive-behavioral therapy). Thoughts are often self-defeating and inaccurate.

Those who suffer from social anxiety disorder are afraid of being judged by others in society. People who suffer from this disorder may behave a certain way or say something and then feel embarrassed or humiliated after. Therefore, they chose to isolate themselves from society to avoid such situations. They may also feel uncomfortable meeting people they do not know and act distant when they are with large groups of people. In some cases they may show evidence of this disorder by not making eye contact or blushing when someone is talking to them (this is their way of showing discomfort). [11]

According to psychologist B.F. Skinner, phobias are controlled by escape and avoidance behaviors. For instance, a student may leave the room when talking in front of the class (escape) and refrain from doing verbal presentations because of the previously encountered anxiety attack (avoid). Major avoidance behaviors could include an almost pathological/compulsive lying behavior in order to preserve self-image and avoid judgement in front of others. Minor avoidance behaviors are exposed when a person avoids eye contact and crosses arms to avoid recognizable shaking.[9] A fight-or-flight response is then triggered in such events. Preventing these automatic responses is at the core of treatment for social anxiety.

From the US National Library of Medicine:
Symptoms

People with social phobia become overwhelmingly anxious and self-conscious in everyday social situations. They have an intense, persistent, and chronic fear of being watched and judged by others, and of doing things that will embarrass them. They can worry for days or weeks before a dreaded situation. This fear may become so severe that it interferes with work, school, and other ordinary activities, and can make it hard to make and keep friends.

Although many people with social phobia realize that their fears about being with people are excessive or unreasonable, they are unable to overcome them on their own.

Social phobia can be limited to one situation (such as talking to people, eating or drinking, or writing on a blackboard in front of others). Or, it may be so broad (such as in generalized social phobia) that the person experiences anxiety around almost everyone other than family members.

Physical symptoms that often occur with social phobia include:

Blushing

Difficulty talking

Nausea

Profuse sweating

Trembling

Social phobia is different from shyness. Shy people are able to participate in social functions. People with social phobia are constrained by their condition to the point that it affects their ability to function in work and relationships.

Some of the most common fears of people with social phobia include:

Attending parties and other social occasions

Eating, drinking, and writing in public

Meeting new people

Speaking in public

Using public restrooms

bodhrandude · 25-02-2012 06:51PM

eth0 wrote: »

A good shag is definitely the cure to shyness.

Not really fair though when you're shy the good shag is so hard to get. Just like how work experience is the cure to being unemployable

A mate keeps telling me this but where can I find prostitute in Galway?

Azureus · 25-02-2012 07:08PM

I always wondered how to handle someone with this type of shyness/social awkwardness actually. Dont get me wrong-Im certainly not perfect in sociable situations and Im sure many people have thought 'god shes a bit weird!' with me aswell, but in general Im fairly sociable, very outgoing and enjoy being in larg groups of people.

However, I have had a friend since childhood who is literally the polar opposite. Its very difficult being around him (Im sorry if this offends anybody) because he will only give yes and no answers to questions, will never elaborate on anything conversationally, is very quiet and looks really nervous all the time about everything. Im the only person he will really speak to, and even then its limited. Ive tried everything to get him out of his shell a bit, but years and years later its still the same... Maybe that suits some people, but I would have thought that social deficiency cant possibly be a choice (again not meaning to offend) but I'd genuinely like some tips on people who suffered from this as to how a friend could help, as he seemingly wont help himself.

Jaxxy · 25-02-2012 07:08PM

You'd be surprised to know just how many people struggle with this on a daily basis. Sometimes some of the most outwardly confident, extroverted people have to work hard to appear so. Doing this (even if only for a few hours a day) can be very mentally draining.

The majority of my friends would always be quick to say that I'm a very outgoing, confident and secure, but I still blush furiously and get tongue-tied when someone pays me a compliment, and when I'm getting a friendly slagging while I can give back as good as I get, I'll have a head on me like a beetroot the entire time. Because everyone is looking at me. It's a throwback from when I was a child and I was quite quiet and introspective. Like you though, I gave myself a kick up the arse and changed a few things. I was younger, about seventeen when it started happening. I do believe I was luckier than many in this regard because removing yourself from your comfort zone gets harder as you get older IMO.

Fair play to you OP. It's not easy to do what you did and I personally think you're very brave.

Jaxxy · 25-02-2012 07:16PM

Azureus wrote: »

I always wondered how to handle someone with this type of shyness/social awkwardness actually. Dont get me wrong-Im certainly not perfect in sociable situations and Im sure many people have thought 'god shes a bit weird!' with me aswell, but in general Im fairly sociable, very outgoing and enjoy being in larg groups of people.

However, I have had a friend since childhood who is literally the polar opposite. Its very difficult being around him (Im sorry if this offends anybody) because he will only give yes and no answers to questions, will never elaborate on anything conversationally, is very quiet and looks really nervous all the time about everything. Im the only person he will really speak to, and even then its limited. Ive tried everything to get him out of his shell a bit, but years and years later its still the same... Maybe that suits some people, but I would have thought that social deficiency cant possibly be a choice (again not meaning to offend) but I'd genuinely like some tips on people who suffered from this as to how a friend could help, as he seemingly wont help himself.

I have a friend who is a bit like this Azureus! She's actually really lovely and kindhearted, but others often perceive her to be a bit rude with her "yes" and "no" one-word answers. Do you know him quite well? As in, if it was just the two of you chatting, would he bring more to the conversational table? If this is the case and you're with a larger group perhaps chatting to him one on one about a subject he has an interest in, something he enjoys talking about or discussing usually, might get more words from him. I find once the ball starts rolling and I start getting actual full sentences from my friend when we're in this situation, she starts to relax a little bit more in the company.

It can be tough in that sort of social situation with someone who is that uncomfortable, because they invariably make everyone else involved uncomfortable too.

Severe Social Shyness - How Much Of A Problem Is It??

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