STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

Stove Fan · 15-02-2012 03:21PM

DrStriver wrote: »

Hi,
Quick question:

Old fireplace removed.
New "void" created to fit insert style stove, like a Stovax Riva 55/66.
Liner in place, registry plate in place, liner insulated with vermiculite.
Black granite (split into four tiles) will surround stove on front.

Should void behind and to the sides of the stove be backfilled with vermiculite or should the sides/back of the void be insulated.

Worried about heat loss out through back and sides. Chimmey breast is outside rather than in, cavity wall but poorly insulated.

DrS

Hi, definately backfill it with vermiculite mix to insulate it if you can. It depends if you can connect the flue liner after really to the stove. You will need to use something small and fill the void by putting your hand through the fire and flue outlet.
You didn't really need the registry plate as once the fire was installed could of just poured the vermiculite around the liner at the top of the chimney.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 15-02-2012 03:59PM

Excited! wrote: »

Hi Stovefan and others,

I am looking for some advice. Myself and my fiancee are refurbishing a farmhouse (approx 1500 sq ft) we bought and want to fit a boiler stove to heat the room it is located in and also the hot water and radiators. We will also have an oil burner as a back-up for times when we are too late back to light the fire.
Half of the farmhouse is built using old stone walls while the other half was rebuilt in the early 1970s and so is of cavity block. We plan to put internal insulation (92.5 mm insulated plasterboard) in the old half of the house and fill the cavity with pumped insulation for the newer part and we will also insulate the attic.

So far, we have got conflicting advice regarding the size of the stove required. The room where the stove will be measures approx 5.4 M x 5 M x 2.4 M high and has two doors at opposite sides of the room and also an open stairs leading to an upstairs hallway. We will have 10 radiators not including the one in the room with the stove which will be off when the stove is lighting. The rad sizes are as follows:
Upstairs: 1200 mm, 800 mm and 700 mm double rads and 700 mm and 1100 mm single rads.

Downstairs: 700 mm, 800 mm, 1000 mm, 1000 mm and 800 mm double rads.
Any help which could be provided regarding the size of stove we would need to heat our sitting room, hot water and all of these rads would be greatly appreciated. We will be burning timber and have access to an ample supply. Also, are there any makes of boiler stoves which you would think might suit our needs based on our heat requirements.

Thanks in advance.

Hi I have calculated that you need a stove with 17kw boiler and an output from the stove of 5kw to heat the 5x5.4m room. You could probably have a higher output to room as you could open the double doors both sides. An installer would really need to view.

There is this:
http://www.waterfordstanley.com/Products/1724.htm
4kw to room 15.6kw to water.

Or the Aarrow EB18HE. 18kw to water. 9kw to room.
http://www.stratfordboilerstoves.co.uk/models/freestanding-stoves/eb18-he.html

Just make sure you can use the 9kw to room output. But saying that the stove is quite small so may not produce that much heat to room.

Sorry I don't know of any others in that size.

Stove Fan:)

Excited! · 15-02-2012 10:52PM

Thanks stovefan, you have been very helpful. A local stove shop told us we needed a Boru 30 kW Carraig Mor stove or similar size to heat this number of radiators. However, when we mentioned this to our plumber, he said that such a stove would generate too much hot water and could be dangerous. Have you or anybody else here ever heard similar stories of oversized stove boilers creating dangerously high levels of hot water?

Also, we are breaking out a large section from the chimney breast to fit this new stove. I know that each stove requires a certain minimum clearance between its sides, back and top and the wall but my question relates to what I should line the opening with. What would you advise on this bearing in mind that we are on a budget.

Stove Fan · 15-02-2012 11:34PM

Excited! wrote: »

Thanks stovefan, you have been very helpful. A local stove shop told us we needed a Boru 30 kW Carraig Mor stove or similar size to heat this number of radiators. However, when we mentioned this to our plumber, he said that such a stove would generate too much hot water and could be dangerous. Have you or anybody else here ever heard similar stories of oversized stove boilers creating dangerously high levels of hot water?

Also, we are breaking out a large section from the chimney breast to fit this new stove. I know that each stove requires a certain minimum clearance between its sides, back and top and the wall but my question relates to what I should line the opening with. What would you advise on this bearing in mind that we are on a budget.

Hi, Yes there could be a overheating problem if the stove was oversized for the heating load and it could boil the water in the system if stoked with fuel.

The cheapest option to line out the fireplace once youve opened it up is to use sand and cement with some lime as the base and use any heatproof plaster topcoat to finish. You could use the approved screed as well if you wanted.
Purimachos heat resistant plaster
http://www.everbuild.co.uk/products/84,Purimachos-Products/91,Heatproof-Mortars/1

or
http://shop.vitcas.com/vitcas-heat-resistant-plaster-16-p.asp

You could also line it out with scomolex or vermiculite board but much dearer.

Stove Fan:)

Excited! · 17-02-2012 09:32AM

Thanks for the sound advice stovefan, we will look into those options.

doniepony · 17-02-2012 12:50PM

Hey stovefan and everyone else

Need an external air supply for my two stoves that I am fitting. I went to local hard ware shop for flexi flue to go from the stove to the external vent in the wall and all they had was a 4'' expandable cooker hood flexi hose. I was wondering would this do as an external air supply from my stove-how do they usually attach this air supply to back of stove-does it need to be heat proof? I only need a pipe 3 metres long approx

Stove Fan · 17-02-2012 03:59PM

doniepony wrote: »

Hey stovefan and everyone else

Need an external air supply for my two stoves that I am fitting. I went to local hard ware shop for flexi flue to go from the stove to the external vent in the wall and all they had was a 4'' expandable cooker hood flexi hose. I was wondering would this do as an external air supply from my stove-how do they usually attach this air supply to back of stove-does it need to be heat proof? I only need a pipe 3 metres long approx

Hi, normally most stove suppliers supply the metal ducting as well as a kit. Ducting and wall vent. I wouldnt know how it connects it may just push on or held on with a jubilee clip.

What size is the outlet for the air supply on the stove and what stove is it?

Stove Fan:)

doniepony · 17-02-2012 06:29PM

Stovefan the duct is 4'' wide and my two are the Charnwood island 1 (freestanding) and the boru 400i (insert)..I might just go get the proper stuff in cork city tomorrow.

Another small questions please. I have got mixed reports as to how to build the chimney flue properly. My builder will build everything 'standard' unless I tell him otherwise-he usually fills around clay pots with sand cement 12:1 ratio (as well as throwing rubble in I fear). Some people are telling me to drop 6'' flexi flue inside the 8'' clay pots and fill in between with vermiculite. They say the builder can do what he likes around the clay pots then. Could anyone tell me is this neccessary with both stoves as it would add alot to the cost of the whole process.

Is there maybe an alternative?

Cheers

Kirm2 · 17-02-2012 09:36PM

Advise very greatly appreciated please.

We are looking at a 4-5kw inset stove for our open-plan sittingroom/diningroom/kitchen. We have been told totally different information by 3 separate suppliers for the same type of stove. What I really would love to know is:

1. Do you have to take out the stove every year to clean the chimney?
Answers we got: yes, no and clean from the roof down?????
2. Do we need a floo -
Answers we got: yes and no.
3. Can we install it ourselves?
Answers we got: yes, no and hell no you will kill yourselves with carbon monoxide - OMG.

Please can someone set the record straight, once and for all.

Stove Fan · 17-02-2012 10:47PM

doniepony wrote: »

Stovefan the duct is 4'' wide and my two are the Charnwood island 1 (freestanding) and the boru 400i (insert)..I might just go get the proper stuff in cork city tomorrow.

Another small questions please. I have got mixed reports as to how to build the chimney flue properly. My builder will build everything 'standard' unless I tell him otherwise-he usually fills around clay pots with sand cement 12:1 ratio (as well as throwing rubble in I fear). Some people are telling me to drop 6'' flexi flue inside the 8'' clay pots and fill in between with vermiculite. They say the builder can do what he likes around the clay pots then. Could anyone tell me is this neccessary with both stoves as it would add alot to the cost of the whole process.

Is there maybe an alternative?
Cheers

Hi, yes buy the proper kit, much easier:D
Yes, get the builder to fill around the clay liners with a dry sand/cement/lime mix. No rubble as it can cause hotspots in the liners.

Lining the flue with a flexible stainless liner is the best job and much better than just the clay liners.
I myself would line the chimneys and possibly backfill around the liner with vermiculite, and definately around an inbuilt insert fire.

The liner keeps the chimney dry,
Better draw,
Better fire safety.
Easier to sweep.
No danger of tar/condensation leaking out the base of the clay liner adapter.

Stove Fan.

Stove Fan · 17-02-2012 10:55PM

Kirm2 wrote: »

Advise very greatly appreciated please.

We are looking at a 4-5kw inset stove for our open-plan sittingroom/diningroom/kitchen. We have been told totally different information by 3 separate suppliers for the same type of stove. What I really would love to know is:

1. Do you have to take out the stove every year to clean the chimney?
Answers we got: yes, no and clean from the roof down?????
2. Do we need a floo -
Answers we got: yes and no.
3. Can we install it ourselves?
Answers we got: yes, no and hell no you will kill yourselves with carbon monoxide - OMG.

Please can someone set the record straight, once and for all.

1 no, you should be able to sweep the chimney without removing the stove. It would be a bad stove design or installation if you did have too:) Crazy idea to sweep from above, how dangerous.

2 what is a floo? Do you mean chimney/flue? If so definately yes.

3, If confident and have the skills and follow the stoves installation instructions religiously then yes, but if not best to get it fitted.

Carbon monoxide is lethal so install an co alarm.

Stove Fan:)

Kirm2 · 18-02-2012 12:41PM

Stovefan - thank you sooo much, really very much appreciated.

by flue

I mean the cylinder tube that fits onto the stove and goes up the chimney - sorry if I explaining this wrong I hope you know what I mean. We were told by one person that because its using the chimney itself we don't need one but another person said to stop residue collecting ontop of the stove we do.

Also could you tell me - does it need to be sealed in?

Stove Fan · 18-02-2012 04:44PM

Kirm2 wrote: »

Stovefan - thank you sooo much, really very much appreciated.

by flue I mean the cylinder tube that fits onto the stove and goes up the chimney - sorry if I explaining this wrong I hope you know what I mean. We were told by one person that because its using the chimney itself we don't need one but another person said to stop residue collecting ontop of the stove we do.

Also could you tell me - does it need to be sealed in?

hi, The inset stove will probably come with a gasket and the inset stove will be fixed in place against the fireplace opening front to compress this gasket and any voids behind/sides of the inset stove will be backfilled by the installer with a vermiculite/sand/cement mix. poured through by hand through the stove flue outlet.
If the inset stove is being fitted into a masonry chimney with a clay liner then the chimney won't need lining if it's a sound chimney.
If it's being installed to a brick/stone chimney best to line it with the stainless flexible liner.
If building a false chimneybrest with no chimney in the house, Build a new chimney using a stainless steel twin walled insulated chimney system.

Stove Fan:)

Kirm2 · 18-02-2012 06:26PM

Thats great, thank you Stovefan

rocketman2010 · 18-02-2012 07:09PM

Hi everyone (and Stovefan who seems to be an expert!)
I'm at the beginning of renovating old terraced house (practically new build) and when completed the house will be roughly 900 sq foot. I would greatly appreciate some advice re heating the house.

The house will be relatively small with a kitchen/dining room open plan, living room and two bedrooms downstairs.Upstairs will have a room en suite and the main bathroom to service the house.

My architect thinks I should have an openfire without back boiler for living room for aesthetic purposes and heat the house with oil heating. I wanted to have a back boiler as I don't see the point in spending money on setting the fire every night and then having to turn on the oil to heat the rooms/water. I would have oil heating as well for times when we didn't have a fire on. So I guess thats my first question..To install a backboiler or not?

My second question is whether to have a stove or an open fire? I am afraid that the stove will be excessively warm for the living room which is approximately 10ftx12ft. A friends house has a stove installed (without boiler) and I can't handle the heat when they have a big fire down!

From reading other posts it seems that you can regulate the stove between heating the room and heating rads/water. Is this correct?

Has anyone any opinion re which they think looks nicer ...stove or open fire? Everyone seems to be installing stoves these days so there must be good reason?

Any Advice is greatly appreciated. Keep in mind house is relatively small, has attacahed houses either side, will have around 10 rads and will be well insulated.

THANKS, ROCKETMAN

rocketman2010 · 18-02-2012 07:14PM

Hi everyone (and Stovefan who seems to be an expert!)
I'm at the beginning of renovating old terraced house (practically new build) and when completed the house will be roughly 900 sq foot. I would greatly appreciate some advice re heating the house.

The house will be relatively small with a kitchen/dining room open plan, living room and two bedrooms downstairs.Upstairs will have a room en suite and the main bathroom to service the house.

My architect thinks I should have an openfire without back boiler for living room for aesthetic purposes and heat the house with oil heating. I wanted to have a back boiler as I don't see the point in spending money on setting the fire every night and then having to turn on the oil to heat the rooms/water. I would have oil heating as well for times when we didn't have a fire on. So I guess thats my first question..To install a backboiler or not?

My second question is whether to have a stove or an open fire? I am afraid that the stove will be excessively warm for the living room which is approximately 10ftx12ft. A friends house has a stove installed (without boiler) and I can't handle the heat when they have a big fire down!

From reading other posts it seems that you can regulate the stove between heating the room and heating rads/water. Is this correct?

Any Advice is greatly appreciated. Keep in mind house is relatively small, has attacahed houses either side, will have around 10 rads and will be well insulated.

THANKS, ROCKETMAN

Stove Fan · 18-02-2012 08:46PM

rocketman2010 wrote: »

Hi everyone (and Stovefan who seems to be an expert!)
I'm at the beginning of renovating old terraced house (practically new build) and when completed the house will be roughly 900 sq foot. I would greatly appreciate some advice re heating the house.

The house will be relatively small with a kitchen/dining room open plan, living room and two bedrooms downstairs.Upstairs will have a room en suite and the main bathroom to service the house.

My architect thinks I should have an openfire without back boiler for living room for aesthetic purposes and heat the house with oil heating. I wanted to have a back boiler as I don't see the point in spending money on setting the fire every night and then having to turn on the oil to heat the rooms/water. I would have oil heating as well for times when we didn't have a fire on. So I guess thats my first question..To install a backboiler or not?

My second question is whether to have a stove or an open fire? I am afraid that the stove will be excessively warm for the living room which is approximately 10ftx12ft. A friends house has a stove installed (without boiler) and I can't handle the heat when they have a big fire down!

From reading other posts it seems that you can regulate the stove between heating the room and heating rads/water. Is this correct?

Any Advice is greatly appreciated. Keep in mind house is relatively small, has attacahed houses either side, will have around 10 rads and will be well insulated.

THANKS, ROCKETMAN

Hi:) First off definately forget the open fire full stop. An open fire is a total waste of fuel and heat. An open fire is about 20-25% efficient and a stove is around 65-80% efficient:D So more heat less fuel.
With an open fire the majority of the heat is going straight up the chimney and when not lit is sucking warmth out the house.

I would fit a condensing oil boiler or if available mains gas, backed up with a stove with backboiler, Or if mains gas is available a non boiler stove.
The mains gas heating would probably be cheaper to run especially if your paying twice to plumb the stove in as well and depending on what you pay for fuel. We find coal is the cheapest way to run the stove compared to wood only.

You need the stove sized correctly to heat the room and rads. If you turn the stove down as the living room is too hot but the other rooms aren't hot, the rads will go cooler.
You need to know how many KW the room with the stove will take to heat and the KW boiler required for the rads.
Then pick a stove that matches these two outputs.
Room output.
Boiler output.

Stove Fan:)

rocketman2010 · 18-02-2012 11:40PM

Hi:) First off definately forget the open fire full stop. An open fire is a total waste of fuel and heat. An open fire is about 20-25% efficient and a stove is around 65-80% efficient:D So more heat less fuel.
With an open fire the majority of the heat is going straight up the chimney and when not lit is sucking warmth out the house.

I would fit a condensing oil boiler or if available mains gas, backed up with a stove with backboiler, Or if mains gas is available a non boiler stove.
The mains gas heating would probably be cheaper to run especially if your paying twice to plumb the stove in as well and depending on what you pay for fuel. We find coal is the cheapest way to run the stove compared to wood only.

You need the stove sized correctly to heat the room and rads. If you turn the stove down as the living room is too hot but the other rooms aren't hot, the rads will go cooler.
You need to know how many KW the room with the stove will take to heat and the KW boiler required for the rads.
Then pick a stove that matches these two outputs.
Room output.
Boiler output.

Stove Fan:)[/Quote]

Thanks Stovefan

Unfortunately we do not have access to gas. I have gone back over this thread and I think what my architect was getting at was the heat from living room would partially heat the rest of house meaning I wouldn't use much oil with the thermo valves you previously mentioned. Is this possible?

Regards the boiler, am I right in saying that i need to choose a stove to suit size of room so that I can keep the heat of stove up and if this is matched with correct output boiler the rads will stay hot as well?

Thanks again for your help

Stove Fan · 19-02-2012 07:57PM

rocketman2010 wrote: »

Thanks Stovefan

Unfortunately we do not have access to gas. I have gone back over this thread and I think what my architect was getting at was the heat from living room would partially heat the rest of house meaning I wouldn't use much oil with the thermo valves you previously mentioned. Is this possible?

Regards the boiler, am I right in saying that i need to choose a stove to suit size of room so that I can keep the heat of stove up and if this is matched with correct output boiler the rads will stay hot as well?

Thanks again for your help

Hi, Yes you could just fit a non boiler stove and the heat from it would contribute to the heating of the house. The heat would spread through the house with the room doors open. (an ecofan would help distribute the heat)
The thermostatic radiator valves (TRV'S) as the stove heats the room(s) the TRV on the rad(s) will close down and reduce the oil consumption this way.

Yes the stove needs to be sized to heat the room and boiler sized for the rads/hot water output. I think I would still go with a boilerstove as oil is a crazy price per litre.

Stove Fan:)

Bravobabe · 20-02-2012 02:30PM

Hi All,
I need to install a fireplace or a stove (or both) in a property to be rented. Have already lost my shirt on this, so cost is a factor.
Currently the house has a block chimney with a clay flue. The chimney breast has been slabbed over. The house is a 2 storey TF construction. The room is about 5m x 3.5m. There are vents in the windows
I have made initial inquiries off 4 suppliers/installers
A) supply & install 7kw stove, stove to clay reducer, granite hearth & granite insert

supply & install granite/marble fireplace 7kw stove finished
C) supply & install 6.5 or 7.5kw stove, suggested buying used fireplace
D) supply & install 7kw stove with 2 sheets of heat resistant board or polished granite.
Prices range from €800 (A) to €1200 (B)
Not one of the installers mentioned the Flue liner nor the vents. I will install a plug in CO detector also.
Do we need a Flue line?
Do we need to install a wall vent? (as the window vents are closable)?
Will the granite heart and insert be sufficient to prevent any harm to chimney breast?

Stove Fan · 20-02-2012 04:06PM

Bravobabe wrote: »

Hi All,
I need to install a fireplace or a stove (or both) in a property to be rented. Have already lost my shirt on this, so cost is a factor.
Currently the house has a block chimney with a clay flue. The chimney breast has been slabbed over. The house is a 2 storey TF construction. The room is about 5m x 3.5m. There are vents in the windows
I have made initial inquiries off 4 suppliers/installers
A) supply & install 7kw stove, stove to clay reducer, granite hearth & granite insert
supply & install granite/marble fireplace 7kw stove finished
C) supply & install 6.5 or 7.5kw stove, suggested buying used fireplace
D) supply & install 7kw stove with 2 sheets of heat resistant board or polished granite.
Prices range from €800 (A) to €1200 (B)
Not one of the installers mentioned the Flue liner nor the vents. I will install a plug in CO detector also.
Do we need a Flue line?
Do we need to install a wall vent? (as the window vents are closable)?
Will the granite heart and insert be sufficient to prevent any harm to chimney breast?

Hi, I would go with the complete package. Ie they supply everything. At least then if something they supplied is wrong you have comeback.

Are they sure your room needs a 7kw stove? I would of thought 5kw would be plenty unless your planning to leave doors open to other rooms.

As your house is quite modern and TF I would expect it to be very well insulated and quite possibly airtight. Is this a freestanding stove or built in?

Either way anything over 5kw needs a permanent air supply of 550sqmm per every 1kw over 5kw.

If your home is very airtight it will need ventilation too.

It is always more preferable to fully line the chimney with a stainless steel flexible liner, but if your chimney is sound and clay lined it will work fine.

I presume it's a budget stove?

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 21-02-2012 04:11PM

Hi everyone,

We have a multifuel boiler stove and last winter we used premium polish coal.

This winter we have been using mostly timber and 5% coal and 5% turf.

These combinations have produced good heat output but the coal is dirty and dusty and therefore looked at replacing the polish coal for smokeless.

I have tried cosyglow jems 16 euro 40kg. Nice flame but not great heat.

Ecobright extra, 15.50 for 40kg. Better heat output than the cosyglow but still not great compared to the polish coal.

Anthracite:eek:.

The main problem is it takes 2 hours to get the rads hottish even when using logs and is only lasting about the same time as coal:mad:

The polish coal has the rads roasting in an hour:)

Can anyone reccommend any other smokeless fuels that give great heat or a smoky coal that lasts longer than the polish?

Not overly impressed by smokeless.

What are you using?

Stove Fan:)

TopTec · 21-02-2012 07:05PM

TBH I have gone back to using polish because I found it burns far better than the others. Yes, there is a lot of dust in the bottom of a 40kg bag but I use it with turf crumbles to tamp it down if I go out.

TT

TopTec · 22-02-2012 07:15PM

Evening Folks.

I have temporarily fitted a new Oisin multi fuel into the existing chimney in the kitchen to provide some warmth whilst I continue a total refurb of my cottage. (Eventually there will be a multi-fuel cooker in there).

The chimney, clay lined, was swept and appears in good condition. I have inserted a temporary flue pipe into the chimney reaching up to the clay liner. I tested the draw, and due to numerous drafts in the cottage , the chimney sucks up like a hoover.

Now, I have had the stove going three times, and on each occasion, the glass gets so tarred up after an hour or so, it is impossible to see the fire inside. Even with the vent fully open I can see the stove is full of moving smoke.

Do you think this might purely be an issue over insufficent draw or am I doing something fundamentally wrong?

Thanks for any replies.

TT

rpmcs · 22-02-2012 08:59PM

When you say vent fully open, is that top air vent/air wash one above door?
also what fuel are you burning? and is flue sealed to clay pots or just pushed up?

TopTec · 22-02-2012 09:15PM

Is there a top air vent? According to the operating instructions there is only the one, a spinning dial below the door. It is on a screw which opens or closes it depending which way you spin it.

The flue is upto but not into the clay liner. this is only a temporary set up dont forget.

I am lighting stove with dry kindling and polish coal, then doing a mix of 1 year seasoned wood and bone dry bog peat. Probably 50-50 mix.

tinofapples · 22-02-2012 09:24PM

TopTec wrote: »

Evening Folks.

I have temporarily fitted a new Oisin multi fuel into the existing chimney in the kitchen to provide some warmth whilst I continue a total refurb of my cottage. (Eventually there will be a multi-fuel cooker in there).

The chimney, clay lined, was swept and appears in good condition. I have inserted a temporary flue pipe into the chimney reaching up to the clay liner. I tested the draw, and due to numerous drafts in the cottage , the chimney sucks up like a hoover.

Now, I have had the stove going three times, and on each occasion, the glass gets so tarred up after an hour or so, it is impossible to see the fire inside. Even with the vent fully open I can see the stove is full of moving smoke.

Do you think this might purely be an issue over insufficent draw or am I doing something fundamentally wrong?

Thanks for any replies.

TT

Out of curiosity how much was the oisin ? Was looking at it locally for €399 thought it was a decent price for a small room heating stove.

TopTec · 22-02-2012 09:29PM

I actually bought 2 of them. Together with a sink, bath, and toilet. I think I got them for 350 each but they were advertised at 399.

TT

rpmcs · 22-02-2012 09:33PM

Sorry was thinking of oylmberl gabriel, same stove but has top air vent,
so is flue just sitting in clay pot with gap around it?

TopTec · 22-02-2012 09:40PM

Yep, it is probably a few inches short of the liner entrance, and is not sealed.

As I explained I put an oily rag in the grate and once smoking well the smoke was drawn up into the flue and out the chimney with no issues.

TT

STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

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