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Would you prefer if there was a god?

245

Comments

  • #32
    HUNK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 383 ✭✭HUNK


    Well, if it's Yahweh then...


  • #33
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,741 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    philologos wrote: »
    Through accepting Him, and asking Him into our lives He inspires our Christian walk to lean more and more towards Him on a daily basis.

    You seem to be forgetting that in the Christian sphere of thought:
    Good deeds are those which honour God's standards.
    Bad deeds are those which dishonour God's standards.

    So no, I don't particularly see much rhyme, reason or sense in believing that God encourages people to dishonour Him and His standards for living in the world that He created.
    But you said that God planned out our good deeds. So he must plan out our bad deeds too. In that case we don't have free will.

    Unless we do have free will, in which case God doesn't plan our deeds, good or bad.

    You can't have it both ways. God either plans our actions or he doesn't. We can't have free will to do bad things, but not good things.


  • #34
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    robindch wrote: »
    Would you follow him all the way to Jerusalem?

    Well, if the holy places of your religion had been taken over by people with allegiance to a competing religion, and the places were being desecrated and destroyed and your deity was looking correspondingly weak and powerless, would you feel you had to do something to help your religion regain some kind of respect?

    A passage to leave you with:
    John 4:19-23 wrote:
    The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship.” Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.

    Think about that, and think about what you just said in light of it. This universe is all God's. Desecrating a few churches will mean nothing.

    barfizz: At least I did something for you today :)


  • #35
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    philologos wrote: »
    A passage to leave you with: Think about that, and think about what you just said in light of it. This universe is all God's. Desecrating a few churches will mean nothing.
    So is that a "yes" or a "no"? :confused:


  • #36
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    When you say "as far as I can tell" are you sure you don't really mean "I am not bothering to look"? It's almost like when you say "it makes sense to me" but never go into any detail on why...


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  • #37
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    philologos wrote: »
    barfizz wrote: »
    Thanks for saying " I told you so"

    Que?

    I've just explained how Christianity couldn't be any further from self-righteousness if it is based on Jesus.

    I'm a sinner, I don't deserve God's grace or favour. It's only because of Jesus that I have any form of hope of being with Him for eternity.

    You will be with Jesus for eternity
    Under the ground as a rotting corpses that is
    You will be fertiliser for plants that produce oxygen for this planet
    Your created oxygen will mix with that created by all dead animals including the dead Jews of 2000 years ago, including that from Jesus' corpse

    Thus you will be with hIM for eternity.
    We are animals who are part of the earths ecosystem, just as your Jesus was!!!


  • #38
    Bertser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Bertser


    The one that is believed in? No. But if there was a god who would cure diseases, prevent natural disasters, etc, I'd be all for it, although with an ideal god there'd be nothing like that in the first place :D


  • #39
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    robindch wrote: »
    philologos wrote: »
    A passage to leave you with: Think about that, and think about what you just said in light of it. This universe is all God's. Desecrating a few churches will mean nothing.
    So is that a "yes" or a "no"? :confused:

    That's in the middle. I find the question peculiar. Why would following Jesus in Jerusalem be any more important than in London?


  • #40
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    kylith wrote: »
    philologos wrote: »
    Through accepting Him, and asking Him into our lives H ie inspires our Christian walk to lean more and more towards Him on a daily basis.

    You seem to be forgetting that in the Christian sphere of thought:
    Good deeds are those which honour God's standards.
    Bad deeds are those which dishonour God's standards.

    So no, I don't particularly see much rhyme, reason or sense in believing that God encourages people to dishonour Him and His standards for living in the world that He created.
    But you said that God planned out our good deeds. So he must plan out our bad deeds too. In that case we don't have free will.

    Unless we do have free will, in which case God doesn't plan our deeds, good or bad.

    You can't have it both ways. God either plans our actions or he doesn't. We can't have free will to do bad things, but not good things.

    Yes I can actually. It's perfectly reasonable to say that God can act in a believers life if they ask Him to by accepting Jesus. It's also reasonable that we can use our selfish ego to bring us to sin.

    Also even if God foreknew everything knowledge does not equal culpability.

    I may start a thread over yonder about this to discuss in depth.


  • #41
    inagoodway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭inagoodway


    Teddy, of course god is there,

    and it is at the moment a he,


    that's what i am sure of

    but as already is clear, believe it if you like:)


    long live god


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  • #42
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    Would I prefer a god to exist? No, I'm glad there isn't such a creation jerking our strings for its amusement.


  • #43
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,367 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    philologos wrote: »
    That's pretty much the polar opposite of self righteousness.

    Not really, the Jesus myth is just the art of "Scapegoating" moved from an actual goat to a person.
    philologos wrote: »
    What is surprising about Christianity is that it teaches

    No what is surprising about Christianity is that it allows people like you to espouse not just slightly, but COMPLETELY unfounded and unsubstantiated beliefs over and over again and get away with it, run for the hills when challanged by anyone at all, then return to another thread and start it again. Even when it is entirely off topic such as your posts here are.
    philologos wrote: »
    I'm a sinner, I don't deserve God's grace or favour. It's only because of Jesus that I have any form of hope of being with Him for eternity.

    Ah yes the stolkholm syndrome aspect of religion. You are held captive to the notion that there is a perfect standard, you are born well below that standard, commanded to strive for it, but you will never reach it because you are just pathetic and made from a piece of dust or a clot of blood, depending on your particular choice of religion, but god loves you anyway despite your failures and for this you have to be grateful. Religion really has evolved to take advantage in cunning ways of the weaknesses in the human psyche.

    On topic however, something you do not appear to strive for: Do I wish there was a god? Certainly not if it is the kind of god that creates you deliberately below a standard, deliberately unable to reach that standard, and then admonishes you to be grateful for loving you despite never being able to reach that standard. Such a god, in my mind, is a sadistic troll.


  • #44
    Sindri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Sindri


    Would I like a God to exist?


    Not particularly.


    Do I wish there was an afterlife?


    Sometimes. But only to fulfil my short term requirements of one.

    Of course I'd love to meet deceased loved ones, even if it was just in my imagination.:(

    Death is the/a problem, we don't cope well to death. The audacity of life to give you someone, cherish them, and then have them taken from you.

    You will give anything to meet them again.

    (Or maybe that's part of the resolution of grief?)


  • #45
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,076 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    No. I've yet to read any mythology where a god didn't engage is some form of abuse of their powers.

    I'd be convince that it would be Orwell's 1984 on a cosmic level. So pardon me if I don't get giddy with excitement at that prospect.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #46
    inagoodway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭inagoodway


    koth wrote: »
    No. I've yet to read any mythology where a god didn't engage is some form of abuse of their powers.

    I'd be convince that it would be Orwell's 1984 on a cosmic level. So pardon me if I don't get giddy with excitement at that prospect.


    i agree with you on that point Koth, only really believe what you see with your own eyes; however i would also say , listen to your heart, (hope that helps;))


  • #47
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    inagoodway wrote: »
    i agree with you on that point Koth, only really believe what you see with your own eyes; however i would also say , listen to your heart, (hope that helps;))

    Your heart talks? My heart only pumps blood around my body.


  • #48
    inagoodway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭inagoodway


    fatmammycat wrote: »
    Your heart talks? My heart only pumps blood around my body.


    wanna swap?


  • #49
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,076 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    inagoodway wrote: »
    i agree with you on that point Koth, only really believe what you see with your own eyes; however i would also say , listen to your heart, (hope that helps;))

    you flirting with me??

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCC_b5WHLX0


    :P

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #50
    inagoodway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭inagoodway


    can't listen to video, broadband restriction:(, however maybe the song will come on the radio ?


    and no i wasn't "flirting"

    if i was flirting i would say, "kiss me":o


  • #51
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    inagoodway wrote: »
    wanna swap?

    Nope.


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  • #52
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    koth wrote: »
    No. I've yet to read any mythology where a god didn't engage is some form of abuse of their powers.

    The Norse gods at least used their powers to have a bloody good laugh. I could get behind that. Smacking open mountains and drinking oceans of mead and nicking Thor's hammer for the lulz just so you can say "u mad?".


  • #53
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,741 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    philologos wrote: »
    Yes I can actually. It's perfectly reasonable to say that God can act in a believers life if they ask Him to by accepting Jesus. It's also reasonable that we can use our selfish ego to bring us to sin.
    If our egos bring us to sin, then they also bring us to do good works.
    philologos wrote:
    Also even if God foreknew everything knowledge does not equal culpability.
    It does if, like you say, he has things planned. If he plans for us to do good things then he must plan for us to do bad things. If I plan that my right arm waves at someone, I can't deny responsibility when it flips someone the bird.


  • #54
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,138 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    kylith wrote: »
    If I plan that my right arm waves at someone, I can't deny responsibility when it flips someone the bird.

    Maybe god suffers from some kind of omniscient version of Alien Hand Syndrome?


  • #55
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    Dr. Loon wrote: »
    No. I wouldn't. The idea of an afterlife is, to me, hell. Eternity with people? No thanks. Sweet eternal sleep when it comes is just fine with me. I'll know nothing about it.

    The idea of a god would be great, if that god sorted out the inherent evil in the world, and protected us from earthquakes, floods and so on. That'd be nice. I often wonder how the religious justify the problem of evil.

    whatever about a persons belief in god , how anyone can swallow the notion that god is all loving is beyond me , ever watch any of the superman movies , in one of the films when superman became cynical and just sat back and let **** happen to people , he was seen as a jerk


  • #56
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    Afterlife is a tricky one. Im a greedy human being who would love to live forever even if it wasn't as awesome the second or third millennia into life.

    As for a god though, no thanks. It's like asking if you could turn Ireland into a dictatorship with the coolest dictator ever would you and I'd still say no. It's an authority thing I guess.


  • #57
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    TeddyTedson wrote: »
    Obviously a lot of religious people believe in god because they want to believe in it.
    But how do people who have made up their minds that a god doesn't exist feel about it.

    It is not necessarily because they proactively want to that a lot of people believe in god, but because they have been indoctrinated and conditioned to do from from an early, formative age. People like me who know that a god does not exist just accept that as a fact, reality. I have no need to create a god in my own image.:):)
    TeddyTedson wrote: »
    If you could flick a switch and create a god, afterlife and everything that goes with it would you?
    '
    If I could do all that, I suppose that would make me a god, wouldn't it? Not so sure I'd want to create another universe seeing what a cock-up this one is.:rolleyes:
    TeddyTedson wrote: »
    If someone close to you tragically dies or kills themselves, do or have you ever began to reassess your beliefs in a lack of god in the hope of meeting the person again.?

    No. It's sad to lose someone, but death is clearly part of natural reality and all one can do is accept it, find solace and consolation in whatever pleasant memories there are and get on with life.:cool:
    TeddyTedson wrote: »
    I'd just like to get some thoughts from people who have come to the conclusion that there is nothing after death.


    Lights out. Silence. Recycling begins.

    21266_gameoverfull.jpg


  • #58
    Northclare
    Closed Accounts Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Northclare


    I have been reading a lot of posts about the existence of God in the last few days and I can't come to any conclusion of how it all works.

    But I have learned more about myself than anything else .

    I do think some people who believe in God and some Atheists have more inner resources to help them solve emotional and economic issues better than other's.

    It's not about believing in God but more about believing themselves that they can accept their shortcomings and defects of characters and also have empathy for others.


  • #59
    MUSEIST
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭MUSEIST


    No is the simple answer to that question. I am thankful that there is no evidence for any form of God because if he/she/it did exist then they are clearly a evil dictator type (saddam hussein, stalin....etc.) type personality and I would have plenty of strongly worded questions about the morals of such an individual if I were to speak to them. Thankfully there is absolutely no evidence or reason for a god to exist.

    Personally I like the idea of non existance after death (exactly the same as before we are conceived), this is comforting to me and I am at ease with the thought of dying (hopefully painless) and the subsequent non existance.

    If I die and find that the christian or muslim God does exist then I would be ****ing disapointed to be frank.


  • #60
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    kylith wrote: »
    If our egos bring us to sin, then they also bring us to do good works.


    It does if, like you say, he has things planned. If he plans for us to do good things then he must plan for us to do bad things. If I plan that my right arm waves at someone, I can't deny responsibility when it flips someone the bird.

    I don't agree with you.

    There is a difference in God choosing to intervene in the lives of those who have sought Him out, and not choosing to intervene when people choose to live their lives in rejection of Him. Good as far as I see it, is good only because it fulfils God's standard in some way. Bad as far as I see it is bad in that it doesn't fulfil this standard and even goes patently against it.


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  • #61
    MUSEIST
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭MUSEIST


    philologos wrote: »
    I don't agree with you.

    There is a difference in God choosing to intervene in the lives of those who have sought Him out, and not choosing to intervene when people choose to live their lives in rejection of Him. Good as far as I see it, is good only because it fulfils God's standard in some way. Bad as far as I see it is bad in that it doesn't fulfil this standard and even goes patently against it.

    But what happens when peoples morals and common sense differ from Gods supposed word, do you still follow gods will even if its in conflict with natural human morals and if this happens then god only intervenes in those who he/she/it deems to have done 'good'.

    So according to what you said then 'good' as god sees it can be different to 'good' as humans see it. This is the fundamental problem with religion, it gives otherwise decent people a cognitive dissonance to do what most would describe as immoral.


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