Why is sexism such a difficult topic?

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Milicent, I am very sorry to hear of the troubles that you have gone through in your life, I truly am. That must have been hard to share.

Thank you.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

That being said, (and I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for this) I'm not sure what relevance your personal experience has on the subject matter. You may have been treated unfairly by your family, I fail to see what bearing this has on society as a whole. You may have been abused (and I genuinely am apalled that this happened) but I see this as an issue of criminalty, not rights. More females get abused than males, well, criminality in general is much higher in males.

My personal experience has everything to do with who I am as a person. I wasn't just untreated unfairly by my family. I have encountered certain expectations and prejudices purely based on my gender. I'm not angry at those who behaved in that way. Sincerely, feminism just informs my world view on how those prejudices come to be. Things like gender roles and legal issues that specifically face women are of particular interest to me given my history--that again doesn't negate my acknowledgement or understanding of how gender roles affect men and LGBT people too.

I don't deny criminality that affects men; just have a particular interest in that which has affected me.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

The cynical might see you typing that post to play the pity card and to stifle male posts (I must stress that I don't think that). I think the point Eric Cartman was trying to make (although I have no idea what he really meant) is that he sees that people who are vehemently feminist have had poor treatment by males in their lives and so vigourously take up the banner of feminism in retaliation. I'm not saying I agree with this either, but I think you can see how personal experiences can sully rational thinking (at least in some way) on such a divisive matter. The previous statement applies to men as well as women by the way

I would be sorry if that's how cynics saw the post. That wasn't its intention in any way. In fact, I had hoped it would facilitate discussion and give those opposed to feminism a perspective into what it meant in one particular feminist's life.

I don't use the feminist theory in revenge of men. I have been a strong arguer on Boards for rehabilitation of criminals over severe prison sentences and have said on here that I would like to see paedophilic tendencies studied in more detail so it can be understood or prevented. I don't use my experiences as a yard stick to beat men with. That post shouldn't be seen as divisive but as an attempt to add my own experience.

I have asked Eric Cartman to come back with his checklist and even asked a mod to allow it. So far, he has not come back. I am not looking to stifle discussion and in fact am trying to encourage it. I see this thread as a good opportunity to discuss preconceptions and misconceptions.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

I must have missed that, however I don't think it strengthens her arguments in any way. It was like as if (extreme analogy here) I admitted I was racist in some posts, then in a later post I explained that I've had bad experiences with black people, have been robbed, beaten etc.....That wouldn't aid my viewpoint, it would show people why I was prejudiced

I don't think that poster was riling either, otherwise he wouldn't have left the thread

Feminism is not analogous to or synonymous with racism though. One seeks to increase the rights of of women; the other seeks to lessen the rights of different races. I think a lot of the misunderstanding of feminism comes with the assumption that feminists don't like men. That's not true, at all, at least in the case of the vast majority of feminists I know.

Having followed this thread, it's great to see how the discussion has survived the initial bit of turbulence / misunderstanding, and become a clear, open, and polite debate.

It's more than what I had dared hoped for, considering what a difficult and personal subject it is

In order to continue such a debate, it would be helpful if people read the entire thread before commenting on individual posts.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not really sure what's going on here. Are there actually people who are arguing against gender equality?

It's hard to change old-fashioned ideas. Some people are threatened by change.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Well Ive always had a belief that becoming a feminist usually stems from bad incidents in your upbringing , In my experience people who describe themselves as feminists usually have a subconscious dislike of all men or a specific man in their lives , usually stemming from :

1) being a lesbian
2) divorce
3) being sexually abused
4) bullying by boys in school
5) having an authoritarian male in your upbringing who you resent

Now millicent , im sorry that your upbringing featured some of my checklist items but i just wanted to point out that the reasons most people become feminists can usually be pointed back to one or more of these things.

Yet that list is so vague, it would make me a feminist!
I'm a lesbian (well as close to lesbian as a man can get) who was bullied by boys and had an authoritarian male in my upbringing (at some stage) that I resented.

B0jangles wrote: »

don't walk home at night, don't wear revealing clothes, always watch your drink at all times - essentially telling us that it was our responsibility to prevent ourselves from being assaulted.

These things are true. It is each individuals responsibility to protect themselves.

When I go to clubs where I know there's going to be a free flow of drugs I, as a guy, never leave my drink unattended and I make sure no one else does. A friend of mine in college had his drink spiked, it does happen.

Don't walk home alone is also good advice depending on where you are. I've been started on because I was alone and a friend of mine got seriously hurt in a random attack.

Watch what you wear is typically only applicable to women (and gang members), but it doesn't make it sexist to point out that the problem does exist.


That's not saying anyone is responsible if the worst comes to worst but they are responsible for looking after themselves.


I don't know why it's drilled more into women than men but it's definitely not bad advice, it's advice everyone should be taught.

B0jangles wrote: »

One of the subtler ones was finding out that I was not in any way unique in being automatically nervous when say, out walking somewhere isolated by myself - I, and most other women I know, have had it drummed into us from childhood by both parents and other relatives that women are constantly vulnerable to attack, and how we should take precautions to prevent such attacks - don't walk home at night, don't wear revealing clothes, always watch your drink at all times - essentially telling us that it was our responsibility to prevent ourselves from being assaulted.

This conversation happened on another forum and the guys in the thread were genuinely shocked to discover the atmosphere of low-grade fear experienced by so many women.

sorry but i have to take you up on this, it's one of these points trotted out by feminists as an example of how they are second grade citizens...and it's utter tripe!

women are seen as weaker (which, physically they are) than men and therefore make better targets for scumbags. EVERYBODY needs to watch themselves in public for a variety of different reasons and not one of them has to do with sexism - they all have to do with personal safety.

and dont get me started on this recent attempt by (the crazier side of) feminism to tell us now we have a 'rape culture' - i nearly chewed the screen off reading that utter, sexist (towards men) crap the journal lowered themselves to publish.