Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all, we have some important news to share. Please follow the link here to find out more!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058419143/important-news/p1?new=1

Sites Using Pyro

24567

Comments

  • #32
    OzCam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭OzCam


    I'm going from memory here, so I could be forgetting something, but you need:
    • An Importation Certificate (which takes 12 weeks to get)
    • Trained & certified Pyro Operators
    • A Safety Management plan for the event, including Fire and Evacuation plans, which will get you...
    • Permission from your local Fire Officer, which along with the Import Cert will get you...
    • Permission from your local Super.

    If you have all of the above, you're fine & dandy. If not, you're in possession of unlicensed explosives.

    I don't like this situation one bit, but it's the law. Until it's changed, we can't expect any respect from the Powers That Be if we just decide to ignore any law that doesn't suit us. And we have no hope whatsoever of getting the laws changed until we establish some credibility.


    See also, from 18 months ago.


  • #33
    Lemming
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,162 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    c-90 wrote: »
    where do you get off pal. this would be like me stopping you in the street and asking to see if you had a licence. if you were playing on the site then maybe you could ask a question like this but to ask for a site to prove to you, who are you? over an internet forum that they have a permit is rediculous.

    The out patients have been given a day out I see.

    I have never - and I repeat - NEVER, been to a site in the UK (where pryo is the legal norm) that allowed the use of smoke pyro indoors. Funnily enough because of the strong intensity of fumes pumped out, the strong potential for player injury due to obstructed vision, and the very real possibility of aggrivating existing respitory conditions in some players.

    So what makes you think that it's a case of "man up", or do the rules of common sense not apply? Or are you just Matt Damon?

    Further, any site that has a cert wouldn't have a problem furnishing it now would they?


  • #34
    OzCam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭OzCam


    BTW, the Importation Certificate is an absolute work of art; foil stamping, holograms, banknote-quality paper, the whole 8.2296 metres. We may be broke, but we can still produce great-looking paperwork.

    Anyone who had one would be delighted to show it off. Framed.


  • #35
    sliabh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭sliabh


    c-90 wrote: »
    if you were playing on the site then maybe you could ask a question like this but to ask for a site to prove to you, who are you? over an internet forum that they have a permit is rediculous.
    These guys are looking for my business (they aren't on facebook to show to their Mum how many friends they have) and are publicising the fact they use pyros on their site (via the internet).

    As a potential customer (I chose to play in LAC last weekend, but I considered going to this place instead) I am perfectly entitled to ask if they are properly authorised before I turn up and hand over my money. Just as I can ask what their opening hours are, what FPS limits they have, do they ban automatic fire indoors (I believe they don't), do they require full face protection, or do they have toilets.

    If practically every site in the country had pyro certs I would give them the benefit of the doubt. But to the best of my knowledge none do. So the onus is on them to show they are in compliance with the law, and I am perfectly entitled to ask.


  • #36
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Being the site has an address ,a call to the local station one thing these retarded people. never seem to forget what posted on the internet stays on the internet wonder. who's insuring this site too pyro indoors
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • Advertisement
  • #37
    bullets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,612 ✭✭✭bullets


    OzCam wrote: »
    BTW, the Importation Certificate is an absolute work of art; foil stamping, holograms, banknote-quality paper, the whole 8.2296 metres. We may be broke, but we can still produce great-looking paperwork.

    Anyone who had one would be delighted to show it off. Framed.

    I've never seen one, would like to see one out of Curiosity anyone got any
    pics on what one would look like ?

    The HRTA course that was run last year only had 7-8 people enrolled didnt it?
    If its the same cert as the cert thats used for holding black powder are these even being issued anymore? (I dont know I'm just curious)

    ~B


  • #38
    andy_g
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,561 ✭✭✭andy_g


    Post naming site has been removed please refrain from mentioning sites that are not here to defend themselves.


  • #39
    sliabh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭sliabh


    andy_g wrote: »
    Post naming site has been removed please refrain from mentioning sites that are not here to defend themselves.

    Just sent you a PM on this.


  • #40
    spooky donkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,042 ✭✭✭spooky donkey


    sliabh wrote: »
    Because Airsoft as a sport sits in a place where it can get banned or restricted out of existence at the drop of a hat/stroke of a ministers pen.

    We need to show that we are not the dangerous irresponsible military fanatics that certain sections of the media portray us as. And a big part of that is managing our sport in a way that is safe and follows the law..

    I think the lack of accidents on airsoft sites demonstrate this fine.
    I agree it could get baned as a sport with the nanny state and would hate to see it happen.
    sliabh wrote: »
    I don't have to, it is on display on the dash. But in a country with tens of thousands of licensed taxis I can safely assume that a plate on the back, and a sign on top means the guy is legit. But for airsoft sites pyro licenses are the exception. I know how much trouble the Bellurgan guys went to unsuccessfully trying to get a licence for the Rionegro game last year. So in this case the onus is on the site to do everything to demonstrate that they are authorised...

    Taxis display their carriage lincence on the dash not their driving licence and there has been a peice on tv recentlly about all the illegal taxi`s being rented out to anyone with the mula to rent them.
    Also ive never seen any documentation on buses to say the drivers are anyway legal, im sure they are it just never worries me enough to ask.
    sliabh wrote: »
    And the Guards will enforce them. But there is nothing wrong with bringing it to their attention that laws are being broken.

    True, But I think the guards in Limerick have bigger fish to fry....


  • #41
    Jsmurff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭Jsmurff


    I've been to this site many times and have thoroughly enjoyed it. I also know that the staff there are on the level and know what their doing. Fair enough smoke grenades in an indoor situation sounds bad BUT this is a massive open plan warehouse with a plywood shanty town built into and has many meters of head space I could actually predict the smoke just instantly rising above everybody's heads and being completely useless but fun is fun.

    On the issue of the gaurdai, one was called out to an incident a couple of weeks ago at the site and he seamed very knowledgeable in the legalitys of Airsoft and was actual very intrigued about the rif's (in a good way) and actually had a go of an aeg and rather liked it :) And although a lot of us were kitted out from head to looking like real world military and PMC operatives he really saw us for what we were… A bunch of 12 year olds playing cops and robbers :D


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,575 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    andy_g wrote: »
    Post naming site has been removed please refrain from mentioning sites that are not here to defend themselves.
    Just to explain further (and for the sake of transparency), I told sliabh at the time I edited his post that I was OK with the site being named.

    The thread has moved on a bit since then and I've subsequently removed that and may need to edit some more posts.

    Folks, please do not associate any implications of illegal activity with an identifiable entity as this is grounds for a defamation action against boards and against the user concerned.
    As I said previously, please keep this discussion 'general' or we'll have no option but to close it.

    Thanks.


  • #43
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,575 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    /back on topic...

    Why can't / don't sites use fog machines - same as the ones you see in nightclubs etc?

    Surely this would have the same effect?


  • #44
    gerrowadat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,226 ✭✭✭gerrowadat


    Steve wrote: »
    /back on topic...

    Why can't / don't sites use fog machines - same as the ones you see in nightclubs etc?

    Surely this would have the same effect?

    Sites have used fog machines. They're kind of useless outside though.


  • #45
    OzCam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭OzCam


    I think it could work for indoor sites, but there are very few that want to put any effort into theatrics.

    You'd still need to have a safety statement done, though. Not much interest in that either :(


  • #46
    Stonewolf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭Stonewolf


    The fact is that pyros are illegal. Full stop. If a site has gone to a lot of trouble to get certified then well done to them, let's see some proof, let's also see proof from every single marshal on duty that they are also personally certified because anything less would be reckless, and not forgetting proof that all the players using them are certified because it's the law. Let's see proof that they were imported legally and not sold to the players on site (that would also be illegal). Let's see some evidence of a safety brief/warning being given to non pyro using players regarding pyros being in use because that's prudent.

    The fact is it may be a stupid law, but for the good of the game we will all follow it because the last thing we want is a perception of our beloved hobby as people who ignore the law where it suits them.

    Would I play on a site that had non legal pyros? No, because who knows what other laws (like the 1J one) they might be ignoring. I've never come across pyros being used on a site and hope I never will because my response will be to phone the Guards, no ifs, no buts, no maybes.
    If laws are being broken its up to the Guardi to enforce them not us...

    WRONG. If you see a crime being committed it is your duty to report it immediately.


  • #47
    Lemming
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,162 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Steve wrote: »
    /back on topic...

    Why can't / don't sites use fog machines - same as the ones you see in nightclubs etc?

    Surely this would have the same effect?

    I'm sure Paul who ran hrta could give you an informed professional opinion on how smoke pyro works vs. machine-generated smoke. But in my uninformed and admittedly guesswork opinion, I should imagine that smoke machines generate smoke in a controlled fashion using a different chemical process to smoke pyro which is designed to simply pump out as much smoke as possible in as short a length of time as possible. If you have ever moved through the smoke generated by a smoke grenade vs. smoke at a nightclub, the smell is distinctly different (suggesting different chemical mixture)- and far more odorously offensive from a grenade.

    Speaking from personal experience, the heat generated in putting out smoke from a grenade is intense. I know this because I have had the misfortune to have smoke pyro ignite whilst in a pouch on my belt, resulting in so much heat being generated that a pistol - in self same pouch - was destroyed, with enough heat transferring through the pistol and the thick material of the pouch against my hip and burning a perfect imprint of the pistol onto my trousers.

    Any health & safety/insurance impact statement would probably also make mention of the fact that people are running around and firing BBs whilst potentially unaware of what is around them at close proximity, which might also raise a few problems in itself.

    Anyway, that's my educated guess.


  • #48
    Jsmurff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭Jsmurff


    Ok they clearly stated and I know for a fact that they would not just hand them to any players full stop

    Infact they didn't say they would so don't start making accusations based on lies from your own mouth :mad:

    Furthermore, they said they were licences to obtain and use pyro and they clearly stated that their TWO FULLY TRAINED MARSHALS will be THE ONLY ones using them.

    Now stop being apart of the Nany state stonewolf


  • #49
    se conman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 981 ✭✭✭se conman


    Where did they say that Jsmurff ?


  • #50
    Jsmurff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭Jsmurff


    On the same page they posted the picture on face book


  • #51
    sliabh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭sliabh


    Lemming wrote: »
    But in my uninformed and admittedly guesswork opinion, I should imagine that smoke machines generate smoke in a controlled fashion using a different chemical process to smoke pyro which is designed to simply pump out as much smoke as possible in as short a length of time as possible.
    The smoke, or more usually termed "fog" machines are based on vaporising some substance which can be anything from CO2 to Nitrogen to glycol solutions to kerosene (what I used for a smoke machine I built in college when I was doing Engineering).

    Pyros are that - pyrotechnics, they use combustion to produce the smoke, so what is produced are smoke and chemical particles rather than a vapour.


  • Advertisement
  • #52
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,575 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    According to the interwebs, smoke machines work by electrically heating glycerine or glycol+water till it burns and emits smoke.

    No clue how pyro smoke grenades work, however, things like distress flares used on boats can be bought and used legally here (afaik) without special permissions - maybe there's some exemption in law that could be availed of here as far as airsoft is concerned?

    Tbh, this is really something that the IAA should take upon themselves to - can't say 'enforce' or 'control' - maybe regulate by means of an approval or audit system for sites. Coupled with minimum standards for marshalling / insurance / site rules / pyro certification / etc. and periodic inspections leading a site to be 'IAA approved' would lend a lot of credibility to the sport.


  • #53
    sliabh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭sliabh


    Jsmurff wrote: »
    Furthermore, they said they were licences to obtain and use pyro and they clearly stated that their TWO FULLY TRAINED MARSHALS will be THE ONLY ones using them.

    Actually they did not say they were licenced to obtain pyros (unless they have said it elsewhere on their FB page). All they have said is:
    "most sites won't let you play them we ordered them from xxxxxx"
    "Only marshals that have a pyro course done can use them"

    There is a question up specifically asking whether they have an importation licence, and fire/Garda approval but there isn't any response as yet.


  • #54
    se conman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 981 ✭✭✭se conman


    "Only marshals that have a pyro course done can use them"
    This is the only reference they make , so where did you see "they said they were licences to obtain"


  • #55
    thermo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,440 ✭✭✭✭thermo


    what about a licence to store?


  • #56
    Rhinocharge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,348 ✭✭✭Rhinocharge


    If memory serves me correctly, every event were pyro is to be used, paperwork for that specific date must be submitted several weeks in advance before hand & authorisation for each date must be obtained.
    Otherwise you're in the sh1t.


  • #57
    Jsmurff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭Jsmurff


    Ok so I was wrong partly but their still not going to just hand em out to every joe soap at the game they are only being used by trained personel and I know and trust these guys their not idiots so I as an airsofter have no problem with it but hey it's probably been used up at thist stage seeing as they usually start at 7:30 so this is pointless at this stage as they didn't make any reference as to weather it was going to be a regular thing or a one time accurance but appears to be a one time accurance


  • #58
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Taking about retarded excuses to be part of an arguement .

    1 .if its on fb or other social network its then 100% fact and legal really no seriously this you beleive . I saw on.fb aliens do really exist and are ruled by the mighty" Stig" and some say .
    2 .we are all telling lies for some unknown conspiracy ,now really really .
    3.this is a "community" we are part of some of us have our a lot and time and effort to help grow this community to where we are today , that's a conspiracy too you read it first .
    Some of us repect laws regardless of if we like said laws .
    This is the world we live in personally if I can't thrust people to obey simple airsoft rule's on sites here I certainly won't thrust people throwing pyro left right and centre
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #59
    andy_g
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,561 ✭✭✭andy_g


    Gunna qoute steve on this. The only thing that allows for flares to be used on boats is maritime law as they are classed as an emergency device its the same for us to carry them on an aircraft while flying as part of the emergency life rafts fitted to most aircraft now adays.

    No clue how pyro smoke grenades work, however, things like distress flares used on boats can be bought and used legally here (afaik) without special permissions - maybe there's some exemption in law that could be availed of here as far as airsoft is concerned?


  • #60
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,575 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    andy_g wrote: »
    Gunna qoute steve on this. The only thing that allows for flares to be used on boats is maritime law as they are classed as an emergency device its the same for us to carry them on an aircraft while flying as part of the emergency life rafts fitted to most aircraft now adays.
    Cheers Andy, I admit I genuinely know sfa about the law surrounding that :)


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    andy_g
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,561 ✭✭✭andy_g


    I only know it from work as we have to check there onboard.


Advertisement