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How would you solve the problems in the Education system?

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Comments

  • #212
    savvyav
    Closed Accounts Posts: 104 ✭✭savvyav


    micropig wrote: »
    Not just sitting in front of a computer. games on the IBW, videoing themselves etc.

    I'm sorry, but I don't buy it, I cannot see how the majority of students will retain anything about a language from playing a computer game. And as for your earlier point about using software for grammar and vocabulary exercises, I would like to point out that I use a very old-fashioned version of this software called 'books'. They may not be as exciting but they are even more effective. Let's not forget that the vast majority of students will actually have to handwrite (gasp!) their state exams and, judging by the state of the barely legible handwriting I get on homework exercises, this is another area that needs to be improved.

    At the end of the day it doesn't matter how many fancy things you use in the classroom, if you are a good teacher it will come across and if you're a rubbish teacher fancy computer games will make no difference.


  • #213
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    seavill wrote: »
    I was going to reply but I have taken a new attitude towards idiotic posts

    I came for a mature discussion and it is clear no matter what I will not get one here I would have been better off in AH

    And just to finish if a dear friend of mine suddenly got a heart attack whether or not they had 50 lesson plans ready for me I would still have prep to do.

    I respectfully ask you not to refer to my friend or that situation again in this thread

    With all due respect it was you who brought up the issue. My questions related to why one teacher had the power to disrupt the learning of 270 students and land an unexpected workload on their colleague.
    savvyav wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but I don't buy it, I cannot see how the majority of students will retain anything about a language from playing a computer game. And as for your earlier point about using software for grammar and vocabulary exercises, I would like to point out that I use a very old-fashioned version of this software called 'books'. They may not be as exciting but they are even more effective. Let's not forget that the vast majority of students will actually have to handwrite (gasp!) their state exams and, judging by the state of the barely legible handwriting I get on homework exercises, this is another area that needs to be improved.

    At the end of the day it doesn't matter how many fancy things you use in the classroom, if you are a good teacher it will come across and if you're a rubbish teacher fancy computer games will make no difference.

    yes, but children engage more with technology and surely any method which engages them in learning the language can only be a good thing. Not all students engage with books or the teacher talking, so yes I think language games, talk in the language, drama in the language, singing in the language, practicing their verbs and spelling can all be great strategies which can be used when learning a language.

    If you are a good teacher, you will find out about new advances in education and use them in your classroom. A bad teacher only uses one technique, as not all students learn by the same method. Why not make learning fun & interesting for the children? How are our language students doing in relation to other countries?

    Barely legible handwriting? - this says a lot about the standard of teaching in primary schools


  • #214
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    micropig wrote: »
    yes, but children engage more with technology

    Where are you getting this from, please?

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



  • #215
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    Black Oil wrote: »
    Where are you getting this from, please?

    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that your question is serious

    Link to show I'm wrong please
    here a link to back up my point

    Many others available on the web. I also have personal experience of this. Ask the children which would they rather: Book & teacher talking or investigating and learning themselves using technology?


  • #216
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    Here a link to show Irish teachers well paid compared to other sectors

    Here a link to show just how little our students are achieving compared to other countries You can change the country to what ever country you who like to compare it too. (overall we are ranked 167th)

    here's a table for those who don't click the link & research themselves
    Country Duration of secondary Education Education Attainment Secondary Education spending (% of GDP)
    Ireland 5 years (rank 162th|) 22%(rank 18th) 5.5% Rank 44th (4% more than UK) & (20% more that germany)
    UK 7years (rank27th) *40% more than Ireland 37% (rank 13th 68% more than Ireland) 5.3% ranked 47th
    Germany 9 years (ranked 1st) 80% more than Ireland 59% (ranked 3rd) 168% more than Ireland 4.6%( Ranked 69th)


    Our children achieve less and cost more than other countries.
    And still we have no problems? Or is it just we can't see the solutions?

    2006: Severe fall in primary school students' Irish speech levels

    2006 78% of education budget spent on teachers salaries

    If you pay the highest wages, you don't always get the best people


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  • #217
    seavill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭seavill


    micropig wrote: »
    With all due respect it was you who brought up the issue. My questions related to why one teacher had the power to disrupt the learning of 270 students and land an unexpected workload on their colleague.

    I'm sure I am going to get banned for this but you are clearly an IDIOT. Every other person who has responded can see the scenario I have explained however you are the only one who does not get the logic behind what I say. I would argue with the mods that you are clearly and Idiot and that this is not abusive just fact.

    I await the response from you about how "is this how you speak to your students etc etc etc.

    Just to save you a bit of time I will not be responding anymore so you are wasting your time even responding


  • #218
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    The technology issue is not as black and white as you've been asserting throughout the thread. It's not an either/or choice books vs. IT. Plenty of teachers divide kids into groups based on a colour/animals/number and kids can learn that way/reading aloud, too.

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



  • #219
    itzme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 338 ✭✭itzme


    Really interesting question posed in this thread but terribly disappointing debate unfortunately. OP you've started off on the wrong vein of thought, IMO, altogether. You have just picked some really simple problems that you can understand and tried to come up with simple answers. It would be very beneficial if you truly are interested in this problem to take a step back.
    Education is a system not a set of equipment and facilities. In fact it is a truly complicated system involving much more than teachers, schools and the students which has not been solved anywhere. Taking it from a simple point of view, we input kids into it and we get out adults capable of being useful in society. You talk about "Improved student attainment", "improved resources..." and so on and you haven't even thought about what we want out of students when they finish the education system. I would suggest you look into people like Ken Robinson.
    We have the big companies in Ireland (and abroad) saying education isn't fit for purpose as we are not producing adults who are critical, creative and independent workers. Based on this we have started pushing for more testing, more standardisation, more forcing of teachers to follow rigid curricula and lesson plans tailored to the average not to the students they actually have in the class. This is so we can measure on a month to month basis individuals. Whats even worse is we have been going down this road or more testing, more standardisation slowly over the last 10-15 years and its only been "producing" worse graduates.
    We need to start again and get a societal description of what we want from our education system and then start asking questions. Without that the questions you pose are only short term stop gaps that won't help anything. In other words, is our education system just about producing workers? Is it not meant to be about teaching ethics, creativity, showing students the wealth of opportunities out there and allowing them to make an informed decision about their potential future.

    My own view, the most important thing after making this decision is to empower teachers and principals and lecturers (and so on) to do their jobs. We need to give these educators the power to be innovative (standardised testing nationwide, regular testing does not do this, it does the exact opposite it constricts them).
    To do this what we need to do two things give some teeth to admins like principals/heads of departments to be able to suspend and potentially sack teachers/lecturers who aren't up to scratch. This decision should be made by the principal.
    The second thing is to help them, we need to move to an inspection system that does not inspect the individual educator which just removes the authority of the principal and pressurises the educator to fit their teaching/class to standards/practices that may not be fit for their students. The inspectors should be using the reports they get from essentially the managers (principals / heads) to give these managers the support/power they need to improve their school/department.

    I haven't gone into too much detail on these topics because the post would be too long, if posters find anything interesting and want me to flesh out anything just ask. Micropig, in the thread so far, to me, you have responded to difficult/important questions with simple answers. To me, this shows a lack of understanding of the real problems in educating in general (let alone in the education system) and it shows a lack of experience or possibly even interest.


  • #220
    Benicetomonty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭Benicetomonty


    I'm not sure how to measure the'decline' micropig keeps referring to. I can only assume it's relative to other countries, (which is a concern certainly) but if you truly believe the teaching and learning in Ireland specifically has actually gotten worse over the last 40 years, you are effectively advocating a return to corporal punishment, the complete removal of students with learning disabilities and the abandonment of multiple-learning styles of teaching, which, imo, are all areas in which we have made huge progress.

    And for someone who so espouses the use of technology in schools, you seem to overlook the reality that instant messaging and texting are two of the biggest reasons for the decline in literacy (or at least spelling) over the last 5 years.


  • #221
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    seavill wrote: »
    I'm sure I am going to get banned for this but you are clearly an IDIOT. Every other person who has responded can see the scenario I have explained however you are the only one who does not get the logic behind what I say. I would argue with the mods that you are clearly and Idiot and that this is not abusive just fact.

    I await the response from you about how "is this how you speak to your students etc etc etc.

    Just to save you a bit of time I will not be responding anymore so you are wasting your time even responding


    Well if it's idiotic to think that school should be about children learning and not teachers teaching then, I'm an idiot

    If it is logical to say that the absence of 1 teacher should not affect the learning of 270 children, then I'm an idiot

    If is ok for teachers to be asked to plan 9 classes the night before, then I'm an idiot

    If the children can write in their exams, I can not answer the question because an ill-prepared teacher took the lesson that day and did not consider my learning needs, then yes I am a complete idiot
    Black Oil wrote: »
    The technology issue is not as black and white as you've been asserting throughout the thread. It's not an either/or choice books vs. IT. Plenty of teachers divide kids into groups based on a colour/animals/number and kids can learn that way/reading aloud, too.

    I suggested it should be used more, alongside books and other teaching strategies
    itzme wrote: »
    Really interesting question posed in this thread but terribly disappointing debate unfortunately. OP you've started off on the wrong vein of thought, IMO, altogether. You have just picked some really simple problems that you can understand and tried to come up with simple answers. It would be very beneficial if you truly are interested in this problem to take a step back.
    Education is a system not a set of equipment and facilities. In fact it is a truly complicated system involving much more than teachers, schools and the students which has not been solved anywhere. Taking it from a simple point of view, we input kids into it and we get out adults capable of being useful in society. You talk about "Improved student attainment", "improved resources..." and so on and you haven't even thought about what we want out of students when they finish the education system. I would suggest you look into people like Ken Robinson.
    We have the big companies in Ireland (and abroad) saying education isn't fit for purpose as we are not producing adults who are critical, creative and independent workers. Based on this we have started pushing for more testing, more standardisation, more forcing of teachers to follow rigid curricula and lesson plans tailored to the average not to the students they actually have in the class. This is so we can measure on a month to month basis individuals. Whats even worse is we have been going down this road or more testing, more standardisation slowly over the last 10-15 years and its only been "producing" worse graduates.
    We need to start again and get a societal description of what we want from our education system and then start asking questions. Without that the questions you pose are only short term stop gaps that won't help anything. In other words, is our education system just about producing workers? Is it not meant to be about teaching ethics, creativity, showing students the wealth of opportunities out there and allowing them to make an informed decision about their potential future.

    My own view, the most important thing after making this decision is to empower teachers and principals and lecturers (and so on) to do their jobs. We need to give these educators the power to be innovative (standardised testing nationwide, regular testing does not do this, it does the exact opposite it constricts them).
    To do this what we need to do two things give some teeth to admins like principals/heads of departments to be able to suspend and potentially sack teachers/lecturers who aren't up to scratch. This decision should be made by the principal.
    The second thing is to help them, we need to move to an inspection system that does not inspect the individual educator which just removes the authority of the principal and pressurises the educator to fit their teaching/class to standards/practices that may not be fit for their students. The inspectors should be using the reports they get from essentially the managers (principals / heads) to give these managers the support/power they need to improve their school/department.

    I haven't gone into too much detail on these topics because the post would be too long, if posters find anything interesting and want me to flesh out anything just ask. Micropig, in the thread so far, to me, you have responded to difficult/important questions with simple answers. To me, this shows a lack of understanding of the real problems in educating in general (let alone in the education system) and it shows a lack of experience or possibly even interest.


    yes I have said what I want children to get out of the system:
    Independent learners and researchers, who can investigate problems for themselves, decide whether the information is valid and relevant and be able to apply it in real life situations.

    I think Irish teachers need to step back from the system and think about what they are teaching, the benefits of it and why they are using the strategies they are to teach it.

    Is the childrens behaviour because of the strategies and equipment the teacher is using?

    +1 on your last paragraph & I've already suggest looking at the curriculum, how we are teaching the children and why we are teaching them the content they are


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  • #222
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    Benicetomonty wrote: »
    I'm not sure how to measure the'decline' micropig keeps referring to. I can only assume it's relative to other countries, (which is a concern certainly) but if you truly believe the teaching and learning in Ireland specifically has actually gotten worse over the last 40 years, you are effectively advocating a return to corporal punishment, the complete removal of students with learning disabilities and the abandonment of multiple-learning styles of teaching, which, imo, are all areas in which we have made huge progress.

    And for someone who so espouses the use of technology in schools, you seem to overlook the reality that instant messaging and texting are two of the biggest reasons for the decline in literacy (or at least spelling) over the last 5 years.

    No I'm not. Why corporal punishment etc.
    This is what I've suggested:
    Use new technology to engage children in learning and make it more fun for them
    Rewards & behaviour system within schools improved-teachers & principals given control over tackling behaviour
    Teachers ringing home to say student good/bad
    Parents made more responsible for their children
    Principals inspecting teachers more
    More resources put in in to SNA's & learning support
    Expanding the styles of teaching
    Increasing teaching techniques use in the classroom
    ............etc etc

    Links to show it's texts & emails that effects spelling and not ineffective teachers in primary schools (Have a look at some other threads here)

    Link to show advantage & good practices using technology in the classroom

    Some interesting videos for teachers to watch & learn from


  • #223
    Feeona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭Feeona


    I think most teachers go above and beyond their duty for the children in their care. I think this because I have observed it.

    There are some who don't but if anyone can give me an example of a profession where every single person in that profeesion goes above and beyond their daily tasks, that would be great.

    I really don't see the point of this thread to be honest. Micropig is badgering excellent teachers to explain themselves. When they do explain themselves, he/she ignores what they say and then asks inflammatory questions. I mentioned that a lot of teachers do extra curricular activities and do a fantastic job, unfortunately Micropig had to point out that every teacher should be doing extra curricular activities, despite the fact that he/she does not know if those particular teachers are part of committees such as Cumann na mBunscol and so are doing things outside their remit.

    I really must commend Blackoil for his/her contribution. Blackoil is neither a parent or teacher, and yet has a fantastic understanding of how a school is run.

    Which is really more than can be said for Micropig. His/her insulting posts directed at the teachers in this forum have no place in debate and I really don't understand why he/she is allowed to evade answers to questions while simultaneously insulting professionals who work damn hard at their jobs.


  • #224
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    Feeona wrote: »
    I think most teachers go above and beyond their duty for the children in their care. I think this because I have observed it.

    There are some who don't but if anyone can give me an example of a profession where every single person in that profeesion goes above and beyond their daily tasks, that would be great.

    I really don't see the point of this thread to be honest. Micropig is badgering excellent teachers to explain themselves. When they do explain themselves, he/she ignores what they say and then asks inflammatory questions. I mentioned that a lot of teachers do extra curricular activities and do a fantastic job, unfortunately Micropig had to point out that every teacher should be doing extra curricular activities, despite the fact that he/she does not know if those particular teachers are part of committees such as Cumann na mBunscol and so are doing things outside their remit.

    I really must commend Blackoil for his/her contribution. Blackoil is neither a parent or teacher, and yet has a fantastic understanding of how a school is run.

    Which is really more than can be said for Micropig. His/her insulting posts directed at the teachers in this forum have no place in debate and I really don't understand why he/she is allowed to evade answers to questions while simultaneously insulting professionals who work damn hard at their jobs.

    I am not badgering teachers to explain themselves-I am shocked that they are unwilling to see the solutions themselves & blame all behaviour on the children without examining their teaching styles.

    No place for debate about how our education system??
    Please point out where I have evaded questions?
    Asking teachers to think about their teaching style and how it effects the pupils behaviour is insulting?
    I never said some teachers didn't work hard, but I did suggest if all children in the lesson could not engage they are not doing it right. Please provide links to show that if the student does not have the ability it is his own fault he can't do the work and not the teachers preparation

    Frankly teachers defensive attitude and inability examine what they are doing and admit there is problems is insulting to the public. But maybe now others will see what is happening and what approach some take.


    I even asked in one post for someone to clarify the issues if I had interpreted them correctly
    Are we following a policy now where nobody is allowed to question what is wrong and teachers are infallible?

    Again, if the system is so fantastic, with great facilities & teachers why are our students under performing?


  • #225
    Dave0301
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭Dave0301


    micropig wrote: »
    No I'm not. Why corporal punishment etc.
    This is what I've suggested:
    Use new technology to engage children in learning and make it more fun for them
    Rewards & behaviour system within schools improved-teachers & principals given control over tackling behaviour
    Teachers ringing home to say student good/bad
    Parents made more responsible for their children
    Principals inspecting teachers more
    More resources put in in to SNA's & learning support
    Expanding the styles of teaching
    Increasing teaching techniques use in the classroom
    ............etc etc

    I think what you are saying has a lot of merit to it and also that you'd find a lot of teachers in the Irish system would appreciate and encourage these kind of resources and procedures.

    The reason you're being met with such opposition is that it isn't just a simple case of snapping your fingers and making this happen. The country is....well not in a good place financially lets say. You're looking at this from a very idealistic point of view. I haven't followed the whole thread but I gathered you've teaching experience in England? Now teaching over there is far more regulated and certain standards are set and have to be followed. Again I personally wouldn't be opposed to seeing Ireland implementing something similar but unfortunately it isn't as simplistic as you are making it out to be!


  • #226
    Toto Wolfcastle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,005 ✭✭✭✭Toto Wolfcastle


    seavill infracted for personal abuse.

    This thread is a mess. This debate needs to continue without getting personal or people will be infracted/banned and the thread will be locked.

    Stick to the topic without getting personal.

    I'm now going to delete all the off-topic bickering.


  • #227
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    Dave0301 wrote: »
    I think what you are saying has a lot of merit to it and also that you'd find a lot of teachers in the Irish system would appreciate and encourage these kind of resources and procedures.

    The reason you're being met with such opposition is that it isn't just a simple case of snapping your fingers and making this happen. The country is....well not in a good place financially lets say. You're looking at this from a very idealistic point of view. I haven't followed the whole thread but I gathered you've teaching experience in England? Now teaching over there is far more regulated and certain standards are set and have to be followed. Again I personally wouldn't be opposed to seeing Ireland implementing something similar but unfortunately it isn't as simplistic as you are making it out to be!

    I never said snap you're fingers and it will happen.
    I know they're are issues and that is what I want to discuss in this thread.
    Why not be idealistic? If your talking about changing a system, why not talk about what is ideal
    The title of the thread is what would you do to improve but according to some teachers there are no issues and nothing can be improved??

    Any most if not all of the 'behaviour' issues brought up in this thread are not behaviour problems at all


  • #228
    caroline72
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭caroline72


    Im not sure you are a teacher micropig because you have found so much time to be on boards today.......or is this because your students are so well behaved due to your excellent teaching techniques that you can be on your smartphone at the same time as they complete their differentiated worksheets?

    Not being smart but it seems to me that you don't really have a realistic knowledge of schools today so therefore I question whether your posts are genuine, or just trolling.


  • #229
    Toto Wolfcastle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,005 ✭✭✭✭Toto Wolfcastle


    micropig wrote: »
    The title of the thread is what would you do to improve but according to teachers there are no issues and nothing can be improved??
    Add a 'some' in front of 'teachers' in that sentence and you'll have a post that is allowed in this forum. We do not allow sweeping statement about all teachers (or anyone else for that matter) in this forum.
    caroline72 wrote: »
    Im not sure you are a teacher micropig because you have found so much time to be on boards today.......or is this because your students are so well behaved due to your excellent teaching techniques that you can be on your smartphone at the same time as they complete their differentiated worksheets?

    Not being smart but it seems to me that you don't really have a realistic knowledge of schools today so therefore I question whether your posts are genuine, or just trolling.
    If you have a problem with a post report it.


    I suggest that posters read my warning again before posting.


  • #230
    #15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭#15


    micropig wrote: »

    Our children achieve less and cost more than other countries.

    Reading and Science in PISA was average and above average, respectively.

    Maths was below average.

    Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
    2006 78% of education budget spent on teachers salaries

    Figures from 6 years ago. Brilliant.

    Is there any reason why you are ignoring the more recent figures I mentioned?


  • #231
    Dave0301
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭Dave0301


    micropig wrote: »
    I never said snap you're fingers and it will happen.
    I know they're are issues and that is what I want to discuss in this thread.
    Why not be idealistic? If your talking about changing a system, why not talk about what is ideal
    The title of the thread is what would you do to improve but according to teachers there are no issues and nothing can be improved??

    Any most if not all of the 'behaviour' issues brought up in this thread are not behaviour problems at all

    Apologies if I took you up wrong, just some of the posts implied you thought it should be easy to implement but I only read from about page 10!

    As for the idealism, I agree that if the system is to be changed it should be to very best and idealistic level attainable. The idealism I was referring to was how it should/could be brought in. Which is why I alluded to the country's present financial situation. All it takes is a cursory glance at the papers and news to see it's gonna be a long time before anything like an education overhaul can be feasible. Clearly this isn't good enough nor would I use it as an excuse to let standards slip further.

    One thing I would disagree with you on is your stance on the present teaching staff. The vast majority I would hazard a guess at know that there is room for improvements and would only love to see some much needed changes. You seem to feel that many teachers though are happy to just let it go and aren't trying their best?


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  • #232
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    #15 wrote: »
    Reading and Science in PISA was average and above average, respectively.

    Maths was below average.

    Why is this so difficult for you to understand?



    Figures from 6 years ago. Brilliant.

    Is there any reason why you are ignoring the more recent figures I mentioned?

    Please proveide links to the figures you mentioned. I added a link with the most recent figures & comparisons
    Dave0301 wrote: »
    Apologies if I took you up wrong, just some of the posts implied you thought it should be easy to implement but I only read from about page 10!

    As for the idealism, I agree that if the system is to be changed it should be to very best and idealistic level attainable. The idealism I was referring to was how it should/could be brought in. Which is why I alluded to the country's present financial situation. All it takes is a cursory glance at the papers and news to see it's gonna be a long time before anything like an education overhaul can be feasible. Clearly this isn't good enough nor would I use it as an excuse to let standards slip further.

    One thing I would disagree with you on is your stance on the present teaching staff. The vast majority I would hazard a guess at know that there is room for improvements and would only love to see some much needed changes. You seem to feel that many teachers though are happy to just let it go and aren't trying their best?

    Never said easy to implement across the board.
    Enough money was provided in the education budget a few years ago and the issue of resources was not addressed, so I'm not believing that lack of money is the real problem.

    Why was this money not spent on setting up proper learning support systems & investing in facilities? - The answer to this question may be the real problem

    Many of the suggestions I made do not cost money

    If you read this thread some teachers are saying:
    Technology will not improve conditions and engage pupils, thus reducing the behaviour issues they have to address.
    The facilities are fine and everything is ok
    Getting students to peer & self assess will not reduce correcting time for them
    Sharing plans and planning together will not reduce planning time


    It's from the answers in this thread I have informed my opinion, that some teachers are happy enough

    Also never said teachers aren't trying their best or working hard but to give an example

    If I push a wheel barrow 5 miles in the wrong direction, I am working hard but not achieving what I should be


  • #233
    #15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭#15


    Micropig, you should watch all of these videos.

    Your contribution to this thread is of a poor standard and these will help get you up to speed.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR9_zy2FVS8


    Do schools kill creativity?

    Learning revolution

    What can the world learn from Finland?

    child driven education.


  • #234
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    #15 wrote: »
    Micropig, you should watch all of these videos.

    Your contribution to this thread is of a poor standard and these will help get you up to speed.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR9_zy2FVS8


    Do schools kill creativity?

    Learning revolution

    What can the world learn from Finland?

    child driven education.

    Links to figures you quoted in previous post please


  • #235
    Toto Wolfcastle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,005 ✭✭✭✭Toto Wolfcastle


    #15 infracted for ignoring mod warning not to get personal. There will be no more infractions handed out. From now on I will be banning people.

    This thread is very close to being locked unless the discussion gets back on track.


  • #236
    Feeona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭Feeona


    micropig wrote: »

    Also never said teachers aren't trying their best or working hard but to give an example

    That's fantastic that you think teachers are trying their best because you certainly didn't give that impression throughout the thread. I agree whole-heartedly with your new sentiment that teachers are doing their best.


  • #237
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    Feeona wrote: »
    That's fantastic that you think teachers are trying their best because you certainly didn't give that impression throughout the thread. I agree whole-heartedly with your new sentiment that teachers are doing their best.

    I said many times that some teachers work very hard and try their best.

    My point being on this issue is:

    IF they had more resources, support managing behaviour, sna's, back up from parents etc, it would be possible for them to do better?
    If there was a system where lessons are planned in advance & stored on the school system, would it eliminate the need for some teachers to stay up half the night planning if a colleague for whatever reason is absent on short notice.

    So IF some teachers had what I describe above, would the amount some students are learning and retaining increase?

    Less behaviour issues distracting them from learning
    More engaging equipment & resources
    Teachers & parents on their case if they are not performing etc

    Link of one example, where I praise some teachers for working hard


  • #238
    Feeona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭Feeona


    micropig wrote: »
    I said many times that some teachers work very hard and try their best.

    My point being on this issue is:

    IF they had more resources, support managing behaviour, sna's, back up from parents etc, it would be possible for them to do better?

    So IF some teachers had what I describe above, would the amount some students are learning and retaining increase?

    Less behaviour issues distracting them from learning
    More engaging equipment & resources
    Teachers & parents on their case if they are not performing etc

    As for your first point, you went on a crusade to tar another poster as a bad teacher, so I really don't believe this is a point you've been asserting all along.

    Your other questions have already been answered several times over, but you seemed to have missed the answers. As a teacher, you are trained to deal with distracting behaviours although no training will ever prepare you for the real thing. Behaviour is also an issue in over crowded classrooms, or with children with special needs who are lost in a mainstream setting.
    Most schools have engaging equipment and resources. I don't know why you keep asking about this?
    Of course teachers and parents get on their case if they're not performing. Why do you think they don't? Please provide links/examples with your answer.


  • #239
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    Feeona wrote: »
    As for your first point, you went on a crusade to tar another poster as a bad teacher, so I really don't believe this is a point you've been asserting all along.

    Check link in previous post
    Feeona wrote: »
    Your other questions have already been answered several times over, but you seemed to have missed the answers. As a teacher, you are trained to deal with distracting behaviours although no training will ever prepare you for the real thing. Behaviour is also an issue in over crowded classrooms, or with children with special needs who are lost in a mainstream setting.
    Most schools have engaging equipment and resources. I don't know why you keep asking about this?
    Of course teachers and parents get on their case if they're not performing. Why do you think they don't? Please provide links/examples with your answer.

    So no behaviour issues in schools then?

    I never said bad teacher but:
    If the student doesn't have the ability to participate in the lesson is it

    a) the students fault for not having the ability? or
    b) the teachers fault for not finding out the learning needs of the students and planning accordingly?


    Wouldn't investing in resources and state of the art equipment, fit for purpose facilities not go some way to solving the problem of overcrowded classrooms?

    Wouldn't spending money on SNA's and proper learning support resources not help solve the problem of special needs children who are lost in a mainstream setting?

    What do you consider engaging equipment and resources?

    If teachers & parents are on their case, why are they under performing?


  • #240
    Feeona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭Feeona


    micropig wrote: »
    Check link in previous post



    So no behaviour issues in schools then?

    I never said bad teacher but:
    If the student doesn't have the ability to participate in the lesson is it

    a) the students fault for not having the ability? or
    b) the teachers fault for now finding out the learning needs of the students and planning accordingly?


    Wouldn't investing in resources and state of the art equipment, fit for purpose facilities not go some way to solving the problem of overcrowded classrooms?

    Wouldn't spending money on SNA's and proper learning support resources not solve help to the problem of special needs children who are lost in a mainstream setting?

    What do you consider engaging equipment and resources?

    If teachers & parents are on their case, why are they under performing?

    Point one : I stand by my assertion that you went on a crusade to tar another poster as a bad teacher.

    Point 2 : why do you think there are no behaviour issues in schools? Please provide examples/links.

    Point 3 : You are showing alarming naivety in thinking that a pupil's ability is defined either by themselves or the teacher and that no other factors are involved. I would suggest you read the Coleman Report (A report often used in the training of teachers) Link http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/icpsrweb/ICPSR/studies/06389

    Point 4 Schools and classes have equipment and resources. But if you want state of the art, you may go begging to NAMA.

    Point 5: Of course. But SNA numbers were cut. Where do you thinkt he money is going to come for new SNA's? Please provide recent figures.

    Point 6: It doesn't matter what I consider to be engaging. As a teacher, it's my job to figure out what children would find engaging.

    Point 7 : Coleman report http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/icpsrweb/ICPSR/studies/06389


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  • #241
    micropig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,366 ✭✭✭micropig


    Feeona wrote: »
    Point one : I stand by my assertion that you went on a crusade to tar another poster as a bad teacher.
    :rolleyes:
    Feeona wrote: »
    Point 2 : why do you think there are no behaviour issues in schools? Please provide examples/links.

    I am not suggesting that they're are not behaviour issues in schools, but I don't believe all of it is caused by students being bad. In my opinion a lot of behaviour issues are caused because of:
    a) Lack of SNA support
    b)lack of facilities (maybe the equipment is outdated, maybe they are in a prefab, maybe in overcrowded classroom)
    c) Students not engaging in lessons (maybe because the are not able, maybe they are gifted & bored, maybe the teaching strategy does not suit the type of learners, maybe they are just not interested in the subject, maybe they don't see the value in learning things off by heart when you can just look it up on the internet (most of have phones)etc)

    Feeona wrote: »
    Point 3 : You are showing alarming naivety in thinking that a pupil's ability is defined either by themselves or the teacher and that no other factors are involved. I would suggest you read the Coleman Report (A report often used in the training of teachers) Link http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/icpsrweb/ICPSR/studies/06389

    Many factors involved but quite easy for some teachers to differentiate the questions asked to include all abilities. Let the students pick themselves what level they work at. Is presenting the student with work they can not do good for their self confidence & attitude to learning?

    Feeona wrote: »
    Point 4 Schools and classes have equipment and resources. But if you want state of the art, you may go begging to NAMA.

    Point 5: Of course. But SNA numbers were cut. Where do you thinkt he money is going to come for new SNA's? Please provide recent figures.

    Reduce the amount of the education budget spent on teachers salaries and spend it on facilities. reduced wages will more than likely only attract people who are genuinely interested in education. Teachers & students have better conditions.
    Feeona wrote: »
    Point 6: It doesn't matter what I consider to be engaging. As a teacher, it's my job to figure out what children would find engaging.

    +1
    Feeona wrote: »
    Point 7 : Coleman report http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/icpsrweb/ICPSR/studies/06389

    Not sure a link to a study carried out in the us is relevant, but heres a link to show, over all our educuation system ranks about 167th in the world, you can compare it to any other country

    Interesting link on discipline techniques that backfire


This discussion has been closed.
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