How would you solve the problems in the Education system?

micropig

These questions where raised in a thread in AH about Unions & teachers pay.

Due to the lack of intelligent solutions over there I have decided to ask it here (although I did't want to limit it to just people who work in education, as I think people outside the sector have a lot to offer)

How would you go about;
A)tackling the behaviour issues in our schools? Do you think a student is behaving badly if they won't sit quietly at their desk for 40 minutes?
B)Improving students attainment levels? (which are poor compared to other countries?)
C)Improving working conditions for teachers (decrease time spent planning, correcting etc)?
D) Improving resources, equipment & buildings in schools?
E) Get students interested in learning?

I have my own solutions to these issues but I'm wondering what approach would you take?

vamos!

I would recommend that any contributors from the education sector might take a look at the AH thread about Unions Demanding the Return of Teachers Allowances before they attempt to engage in a debate with micropig. His views of teachers in the Irish system are dim and offensive to my reading anyway!

micropig

vamos! wrote: »

I would recommend that any contributors from the education sector might take a look at the AH thread about Unions Demanding the Return of Teachers Allowances before they attempt to engage in a debate with micropig. His views of teachers in the Irish system are dim and offensive to my reading anyway!

Is this your solution?
Do you think it will solve the issues outlined above?
Is this the approach you take to solving problems?

deelite

Here's my view (I'm a mum - 2 primary and 1secondary). I think all parents / guardians should attend a meeting before their child is accepted into the school and explain the rules fully to the parents. The induction meeting for primary for mine - some of the parents didn't bother to show.

If child benefit was on condition that the child attends school - that might increase attendance levels.

I'd like to see the school times changed to an earlier start with an earlier finish, and I like the idea of religion being taught as an "additional" class after school. Mine are not making it but the amount of "lesson time" that apparently is taken up with preparation is ridiculous.

I'd like to see extra curriculum classes (payable) available - foreign languages, cooking, etc.

micropig

deelite wrote: »

Here's my view (I'm a mum - 2 primary and 1secondary). I think all parents / guardians should attend a meeting before their child is accepted into the school and explain the rules fully to the parents. The induction meeting for primary for mine - some of the parents didn't bother to show.

If child benefit was on condition that the child attends school - that might increase attendance levels.

I'd like to see the school times changed to an earlier start with an earlier finish, and I like the idea of religion being taught as an "additional" class after school. Mine are not making it but the amount of "lesson time" that apparently is taken up with preparation is ridiculous.

I'd like to see extra curriculum classes (payable) available - foreign languages, cooking, etc.

+1 that parents need to be held more accountable, linking it to child benefit may be an excellent suggestion as it is received by the parents until the child is 18. It's terrible the lack of interest some people show in their childs' education.

+1 All parents & children should be brought in before the school years starts and made to sign and agreement that they will abide by the school rules.This contract produced when child misbehaves, . Parents sign a contract agreeing to back the school on the rules. No signed contract by all parties = no admission.

+1 on religion being extra curricular

Not sure if I agree with earlier start/finish time, I think extracurricular activities and after school clubs should be in every school and each teacher in the school should contribute to them. (Personally I think this should be standard in their contracts and not require extra payment)

deelite

The reason I suggested paying for extra curriculum activities is that some children who have no interest in doing them may be "thrown" into them - which may cause disruption to the class!

As for the early start time - it may help with the traffic in the morning instead of everybody rushing at the same time for work and school, my three are much more alert and better behaved in the mornings so maybe the teachers could benefit from that.

What are your own views?

micropig

deelite wrote: »

The reason I suggested paying for extra curriculum activities is that some children who have no interest in doing them may be "thrown" into them - which may cause disruption to the class!

As for the early start time - it may help with the traffic in the morning instead of everybody rushing at the same time for work and school, my three are much more alert and better behaved in the mornings so maybe the teachers could benefit from that.

What are your own views?

+1 agree students shouldn't be forced to do extra curricular activities they do not want to do but i students should be the ones deciding what extra curricular activities are offered, they might have more interest. If more technology was in schools it would increase the range of extra activities offered and if every teacher required to contribute (1 hour/week), quite manageable to offer a wide range. I do think students should be required to attend at least one after school club/week (maths clubs, science clubs, computer clubs, animation etc). The older students usually run these clubs themselves with the teacher just guiding)

In the morning all schools should be open a least an hour before school starts so the parent has a window of opportunity to get their children there (As far as I am aware this happens, so I kinda see this as the parents issue to manage). All teachers should be in the school an hour before the classes start in the morning, supervising the classroom they hold their tutor group in (Teachers can use this time for correcting books)

If I can just ask you a question, I know children will be tired in the evening, but why not as well behaved as in the morning. ie are they sitting at their desk most of the day at school & need to let off a bit of steam when they come home

*not suggesting that all children will be well behaved the whole time, But asking what happening in schools if all children are coming home worse behaved

**Not making this personal to you deelite, I just thought it raised an interesting question

deelite

I know you're not being personal, no worries there at all.

The teenager has his own "sleeping" timetable he gets up each morning at 8.10 and leaves the house at 8.15 - he has everything timed to the last minute. The 2 primary kids go to bed at a reasonable hour 8.00 - 8.30 - they're not in front of the tv / or game consoles or that sort of thing. They get about 45 minutes homework in total four nights a week (none on Friday) this would include spellings, tables and reading. They get homework vouchers if they've been well behaved for a month (2 or 3 vouchers) so this encourages good behaviour.

As for in school they are probably just sitting at their desks for the most part, apart from break time when they go out to yard, but they do a separate activity 3 days in school time - drama, p.e., music and the school has the healthy eating policy. Maybe you have a point about the sitting at the desk all day.

My kids do their best stuff in the morning for example one has a spelling test every Thursday morning if I ask her them on Wednesday evening she gets them wrong and has scrawled writing but ask her them before she goes to school she gets them all right with perfect handwriting.

That could be an experiment couldn't it same test given to the same children one in the morning and one later on in the afternoon.

micropig

deelite wrote: »

As for in school they are probably just sitting at their desks for the most part, apart from break time when they go out to yard, but they do a separate activity 3 days in school time - drama, p.e., music and the school has the healthy eating policy. Maybe you have a point about the sitting at the desk all day.

This is what worries me about the Irish System.

Teachers complain that students are badly behaved as they won't sit at their desks for long periods of time, yet they plan lessons where the students are required to sit at the desk for long periods of time

Does either of the schools your child attends have laptops for the students to use? I'm presuming both have interactive white boards etc

byhookorbycrook

Interested to see who you think would fund primary pupils' laptops, given that most schools can hardly pay heating.

micropig

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Interested to see who you think would fund primary pupils' laptops, given that most schools can hardly pay heating.

In my opinion the ratio of the education budget spent on teachers salaries should be reduced and the amount spent on facilities increased.

Same amount of money in the pot, just spent differently

(I'm only sorry that during the Celtic tiger that schools & equipment were not invested in. We had enough money in the country at the time to provide state of the art facilities for the children but invested most of the education budget in teachers salaries.)

2006 78% of education budget spent on teachers salaries



2009: The Department was granted a record €841m to spend on school buildings and other capital projects this year, but €213m has yet to be spent.

2009: Teachers strike over pension levy

No mention of striking over lack of facilities??

April 2011 Teachers vote against strike action on special needs cuts

November 2009 : unions said they were taking action because members had never before faced such a threat to pay, pensions and terms and conditions.

dambarude

New entrants to teaching will be on much lower pay than those who entered 2/3 years ago. Their conditions have been cut even more in just the past few days.

If you want to attract people will put their all into the job you need to pay them a fair wage. The way things are going there are going to be a lot of apathetic teachers.

There already seems to be a sense that much of the good will teachers had (e.g. buying their own art supplies, going over and beyond the call of duty) has dissipated.

So I strongly believe that your argument for slashing wages doesn't stack up. Resources are only a small part of the equation.

micropig

dambarude wrote: »

New entrants to teaching will be on much lower pay than those who entered 2/3 years ago. Their conditions have been cut even more in just the past few days.

If you want to attract people will put their all into the job you need to pay them a fair wage. The way things are going there are going to be a lot of apathetic teachers.

This is true and I have sympathy for NQT's but this is not down to a lack of money in the education budget. The unions (made up of teachers) have sold the new teachers out so they can retain their lucrative salaries and lots of children remain in prefabs.


Maybe we need to get rid of the teachers whose only motivation is money?
Fact is teachers get more than a fair wage & average holidays

seavill

micropig wrote: »

These questions where raised in a thread in AH about Unions & teachers pay.

Due to the lack of intelligent solutions over there I have decided to ask it here (although I did't want to limit it to just people who work in education, as I think people outside the sector have a lot to offer)


I have my own solutions to these issues but I'm wondering what approach would you take?

To be honest micropig I do agree to some extent with what vamos was saying as I did find some of your replies in the other section to be quite confrontational, however I put that down to being in AH and the reason I am replying here and did not there as I presume this will be a more mature discussion rather than filled with comments designed only to provoke a particular response.

I think I remember you mentioning that you used to be a teacher or something like that, what exactly is your background, I am not being smart asking that I am genuinly interested as you seem very interested in Education overall.

As for your questions:

1) to some extent being able to sit in your desk is part of school life (including sitting exams) as it is in work life for adults, if students never learn this discipline it will effect their life after school, however I do believe when teachers nowadays refer to discipline problems I don't believe this is what they are referring to.
Discipline issues can vary from school to school and teacher to teacher, some teachers do not help themselves in the lessons they design however in all reality whatever lesson is designed is never going to fit every student.
In certain schools (that I have worked in) discipline has been a major issue, some of it is down to life outside school, poor management and some is down to personality clashes between teachers and students but from all the people I worked with the majority would always do their best to try and make any lesson as intersting as possible espeically with poorly behaved students beucase in the end of the day it is in their interest to do so however much extra work it is.
Comparing "issues" in some schools I have worked in against others, some teachers perception in the "good school" of what a real discipline issue is compared to actual discipline issues in poorly behaved schools can be amazing.
In reality behaviour will only be improved with cooperation between parents and teachers if there is only one section working on something it will not be as successful as it could be.

2) attainment. - I believe one way to improve any attainment is to increase class contact time. I will not get into the ridiculous argument about PISA results etc. as has been seen on boards before there are two sides to every argument and it gets nowhere. Last year I spent 40 minutes teaching a class of 13 year olds how to read the time, and how to do multiplication, obviously not ideal but if things are not practiced they will not be learned.
I am talking in general obviously more time at anything can only help, however the system itself "exam based" is more of an issue in my opinion. There are many things I would love to do that are still on the syllabus however in all reality if I am not getting the results that parents, students and management want I will be seen as a failure regardless of how exciting or diverse my lessons are.

3) I'm not sure did you mean to put forward the point about spending less time correcting and planning, if you did I think this is a ridiculous argument. Planning and correcting are essential to the job if you do not do these you are not doing your job correctly.
I think most teachers' argument on this would be the doing planning for the sake of ticking boxes in case an inspector walks in the door is time wasting. Some planning is essential. Correcting is essential. It can take a long time which people do not appreciate but it is essential.
I think the only way to improve teachers working conditions (without a pay rise;)) is to remove the element of teaching to the exam. Being able to cover the course fully in an interesting way is extremely enjoyable if you are allowed to do it.

4) again, from reading posts since and previous posts I am not sure are you trying to get a reaction by repeatedly basically blaming teachers pay on lack of funding but a few points to consider,
I do not decide what I get paid
I would agree with a cut to everyone across the board, cutting SNA's, resource hours etc is a disgrace, however stupid arguments about paying a fully qualified teacher 20 grand a year is not even worth mentioning. Another cut to everyone is acceptable, however NO ONE whatever sector they work in public or private is going to say here take back this money I don't need it.
the high figure of spending on salaries that is always quoted is not actually just spent on salaries it also takes into account pensions etc, so we cannot be blamed for all of this, like the hours we work I do not decide what holidays I get and just by me saying that I think we should have less does not mean that it will happen.
I would say that instead of abusing teachers across the board, some of whom are on anything from 30,000 upwards (there is no point in bringing up the argument about whether this is too high or not these days) both the public and private sector need to get together and campaign TOGETHER against the high salaries that all the ministerial advisers are getting, the huge expenses the TDs are on, on top of their salaries. If you take the salary cap of around 90,000 that is supposed to be there and compare what the ministers are asking for approx 120,000 for their staff, how many laptops, SNA's, classrooms would all that pay for in ONE year never mind over 10 years. As I said maybe everyone does need to reduce the wages but me dropping 1,000 a year compared to them sticking to the cap and dropping 30,000 a year, perspective needs to be looked at here.

5) In the end of the day a certain amount of this is down to the teacher (their planning and type of lessons, resources), a certain amount down to the students (their interest in the subject, mood, attitude), a certain amount is down to parents (checking homework, making sure kids have correct attitude to school, have enough sleep etc.) and a certain amount is down to the resources available (due to management or government)
People can preach on about using interactive whiteboards, using group work, etc. however all these things cannot be done all day every day. I personally use them as much as I can, however it is like anything in life, people only give out about the bad things and don't praise the good things in life (maybe that's just an Irish thing I don't know)
Very few secondary school kids will go home at the end of the day and tell their parents about the group project they had to do where they did x, however they will give out about the class where they had to do questions for the entire lesson or something like that, however those questions may have been part of the overall plan where exciting lessons were included in parts and now its time to put that knowledge to the test.
I will give an example of a friend of mine who worked on GAA summer camps for 10 years ONCE in that 10 years did someone write an e-mail to the GAA saying what a fantastic job that was done, despite hundreds of happy kids every year. 4 or 5 times a year people complained about big and small things, for example small thing, little Johnny got the wrong size jersey.
I will do my best to make the lessons as good as I can, as in the end of the day if they are exciting and interesting it makes the teachers job a lot easier as students are engaged, however I cannot please all of the people all of the time.

People have good and bad teachers like any walk of life but tarring everyone with the same brush does nothing but demoralise the good ones.

micropig

dambarude wrote: »

Resources are only a small part of the equation.

Modern technology captures childrens attention quicker than a person standing at the top of the class. It can make learning more interactive for the students, so they are not just sitting at their desk.

More interested children = less behaviour problems for teacher

*Not suggesting computers replace teachers or students sit at computer for the whole day.

It can be used in conjunction with other teaching strategies and in my opinion an underused resource in Irish schools

seavill

micropig wrote: »

This is true and I have sympathy for NQT's but this is not down to a lack of money in the education budget. The unions (made up of teachers) have sold the new teachers out so they can retain their lucrative salaries and lots of children remain in prefabs.


Maybe we need to get rid of the teachers whose only motivation is money?
Fact is teachers get more than a fair wage & average holidays

Could you give us your ideas on the original post instead of going back to only referring to teachers wages and holidays, I would hate to see this thread go down the line of numerous others and revert back to an argument about how much a teacher should get paid. There have been enough of those

dambarude

micropig wrote: »

Maybe we need to get rid of the teachers whose only motivation is money?
Fact is teachers get more than a fair wage & average holidays

Why does there have to be a race to the bottom on this? Teachers' wages aren't exorbitant. Teachers put up with a lot of stress, and I really think that until one has experienced it they cannot comment on it with true understanding.

And why shouldn't teachers be allowed to want a good wage? It's ridiculous to think that the only reason a person should go into teaching should be for the joy of the job. They're not committing themselves to a vocation like a nun or a priest. Teachers are people too. Could we be at least in some way realistic or reasonable?

byhookorbycrook

Seems Micro-Pig is more interested in cutting our wages than anything,true to form from the AH thread.

dambarude

micropig wrote: »

Modern technology captures childrens attention quicker than a person standing at the top of the class. It can make learning more interactive for the students, so they are not just sitting at their desk.

More interested children = less behaviour problems for teacher

*Not suggesting computers replace teachers or students sit at computer for the whole day.

It can be used in conjunction with other teaching strategies and in my opinion an underused resource in Irish schools

You don't need technology to make learning interactive. But even if you did, almost every classroom has an IWB now, and many schools have a computer room or set of laptops. Ideally each child would have a dedicated laptop/computer though.

If they are underused it's because no training has been provided for teachers to use them. That, and there's reasonably little software available that's relevant to the Irish curriculum.

byhookorbycrook

micropig wrote: »

Modern technology captures childrens attention quicker than a person standing at the top of the class. It can make learning more interactive for the students, so they are not just sitting at their desk.

More interested children = less behaviour problems for teacher

*Not suggesting computers replace teachers or students sit at computer for the whole day.

It can be used in conjunction with other teaching strategies and in my opinion an underused resource in Irish schools

And you know this how??

micropig

seavill wrote: »

To be honest micropig I do agree to some extent with what vamos was saying as I did find some of your replies in the other section to be quite confrontational, however I put that down to being in AH and the reason I am replying here and did not there as I presume this will be a more mature discussion rather than filled with comments designed only to provoke a particular response.

I think I remember you mentioning that you used to be a teacher or something like that, what exactly is your background, I am not being smart asking that I am genuinly interested as you seem very interested in Education overall.

Not sure what the above has to do with this thread? Does my background make my points any less valid?

seavill wrote: »

As for your questions:

1) to some extent being able to sit in your desk is part of school life


Discipline issues can vary from school to school and teacher to teacher, some teachers do not help themselves in the lessons they design however in all reality whatever lesson is designed is never going to fit every student.

If schools where better resources teachers would have more choice in the type of activities they can do with the children.
More engaged children = less behaviour issues=Better for teacher

seavill wrote: »

In certain schools (that I have worked in) discipline has been a major issue, some of it is down to life outside school, poor management and some is down to personality clashes between teachers and students but from all the people I worked with the majority would always do their best to try and make any lesson as intersting as possible espeically with poorly behaved students beucase in the end of the day it is in their interest to do so however much extra work it is.

Again more facilities more interesting lessons could be planned

seavill wrote: »

Comparing "issues" in some schools I have worked in against others, some teachers perception in the "good school" of what a real discipline issue is compared to actual discipline issues in poorly behaved schools can be amazing.
In reality behaviour will only be improved with cooperation between parents and teachers if there is only one section working on something it will not be as successful as it could be.

Agree, parents have to be held more accountable

seavill wrote: »

2) attainment. - I believe one way to improve any attainment is to increase class contact time. I will not get into the ridiculous argument about PISA results etc. as has been seen on boards before there are two sides to every argument and it gets nowhere. Last year I spent 40 minutes teaching a class of 13 year olds how to read the time, and how to do multiplication, obviously not ideal but if things are not practiced they will not be learned.
I am talking in general obviously more time at anything can only help, however the system itself "exam based" is more of an issue in my opinion. There are many things I would love to do that are still on the syllabus however in all reality if I am not getting the results that parents, students and management want I will be seen as a failure regardless of how exciting or diverse my lessons are.

With the current facilities & system I'm not sure that more time is the answer. If the students are not learning with the time the teacher has, why would extra time be beneficial? I think this goes back to the teaching strategies being used, more resources would mean more options for teacher.

Agreed exam system needs an overhaul. we need to find a good way of assessing individual students progress. Does it really matter that the student doesn't reach the national average, if it can be shown that as an individual the student is progressing and learning?

seavill wrote: »

3) I'm not sure did you mean to put forward the point about spending less time correcting and planning, if you did I think this is a ridiculous argument. Planning and correcting are essential to the job if you do not do these you are not doing your job correctly.
I think most teachers' argument on this would be the doing planning for the sake of ticking boxes in case an inspector walks in the door is time wasting. Some planning is essential. Correcting is essential. It can take a long time which people do not appreciate but it is essential.
I think the only way to improve teachers working conditions (without a pay rise;)) is to remove the element of teaching to the exam.

I'm suggesting that teachers could reduce the time they spent correcting significantly if they train & guide the students in self & peer assessment and use it.

Students learn a lot from correcting. Not suggesting it will cut out the teachers need to correct, but can cut the time a teachers spends correcting significantly, giving them more time to focus on correcting exam years.

I'm not suggesting cutting corners on planning as I think this is one of the most important aspects of teaching. Usually in a school, a couple of teachers, teach the same subject. Can they not plan the lessons together/each plan a couple & swap, as they are teaching the same content? Each lesson should have a lesson plan. The lesson plan should include differentiation for weaker & stronger pupils. Each teacher just has to tweak it to suit their class, instead of each teacher completely planning the lesson themselves.

seavill wrote: »

Being able to cover the course fully in an interesting way is extremely enjoyable if you are allowed to do it.

What would you consider an interesting way?

seavill wrote: »

4) again, from reading posts since and previous posts I am not sure are you trying to get a reaction by repeatedly basically blaming teachers pay on lack of funding but a few points to consider,
I do not decide what I get paid
I would agree with a cut to everyone across the board, cutting SNA's, resource hours etc is a disgrace, however stupid arguments about paying a fully qualified teacher 20 grand a year is not even worth mentioning. Another cut to everyone is acceptable, however NO ONE whatever sector they work in public or private is going to say here take back this money I don't need it.
the high figure of spending on salaries that is always quoted is not actually just spent on salaries it also takes into account pensions etc, so we cannot be blamed for all of this, like the hours we work I do not decide what holidays I get and just by me saying that I think we should have less does not mean that it will happen.

I know you don't decide what to get paid, but the unions (made up of teachers) will strike over and threat to their pensions etc but not over the cuts to SNA's.

seavill wrote: »

I would say that instead of abusing teachers across the board, some of whom are on anything from 30,000 upwards (there is no point in bringing up the argument about whether this is too high or not these days) both the public and private sector need to get together and campaign TOGETHER against the high salaries that all the ministerial advisers are getting, the huge expenses the TDs are on, on top of their salaries. If you take the salary cap of around 90,000 that is supposed to be there and compare what the ministers are asking for approx 120,000 for their staff, how many laptops, SNA's, classrooms would all that pay for in ONE year never mind over 10 years. As I said maybe everyone does need to reduce the wages but me dropping 1,000 a year compared to them sticking to the cap and dropping 30,000 a year, perspective needs to be looked at here.

this is also disgraceful, but not the issue we are discussing here.

seavill wrote: »

10 years did someone write an e-mail to the GAA saying what a fantastic job that was done, despite hundreds of happy kids every year. 4 or 5 times a year people complained about big and small things, for example small thing, little Johnny got the wrong size jersey.

Do teachers ring home to tell the parents that johnny does something really well in school? I think they should (obviousness not every students everyday)

seavill wrote: »

I will do my best to make the lessons as good as I can, as in the end of the day if they are exciting and interesting it makes the teachers job a lot easier as students are engaged, however I cannot please all of the people all of the time.

People have good and bad teachers like any walk of life but tarring everyone with the same brush does nothing but demoralise the good ones.

Not suggesting that you do not try your best with the facilities you have but suggesting you would do better with better facilities

byhookorbycrook

By the way,what do you do and what is your salary?

micropig

dambarude wrote: »

Why does there have to be a race to the bottom on this? Teachers' wages aren't exorbitant. Teachers put up with a lot of stress, and I really think that until one has experienced it they cannot comment on it with true understanding.

And why shouldn't teachers be allowed to want a good wage? It's ridiculous to think that the only reason a person should go into teaching should be for the joy of the job. They're not committing themselves to a vocation like a nun or a priest. Teachers are people too. Could we be at least in some way realistic or reasonable?

More facilities in schools=more engaged pupils=better behaviour=less stress for teachers;)


Everyone wants a good wage, but just because you trained in something, the sad fact of life is it does not entitle you to anything

seavill

micropig wrote: »

No mention of striking over lack of facilities??

April 2011 Teachers vote against strike action on special needs cuts
.[/URL]

Micropig do not take this as a personal attach just a clarification as I do believe they way you posted can lead to it being misconstrued.

I must say I was shocked at this quote when I read it however in fairness to you, you quoted the link which actually says

"striking was not an option under the terms of the Croke Park agreement"

your headline implies that teachers refused to back a strike for special needs but were backing one for pay.

the article points out that teachers were not allowed strike because it would breach the CPA

Another quote from the link

"Alan Bedford, Coolock, Dublin, who called for a vote in favour of strike action, said it was an issue of pay versus special needs. “Croke Park has tied our hands and our feet – we can’t do anything for these kids"

micropig

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Seems Micro-Pig is more interested in cutting our wages than anything,true to form from the AH thread.

have you read any of what I posted.

Just for you

More technology in class = more engaged pupils = less behavioral problems=less stress for teaches


I don't see wages mentioned once in that equation

micropig

dambarude wrote: »

You don't need technology to make learning interactive. But even if you did, almost every classroom has an IWB now, and many schools have a computer room or set of laptops. Ideally each child would have a dedicated laptop/computer though.

If they are underused it's because no training has been provided for teachers to use them. That, and there's reasonably little software available that's relevant to the Irish curriculum.

having a computer room in the school is not bringing teachnology in to the classroom

Why do teachers have to receive training to use a laptop? Is it not taught on the HDip how to use technology in the classroom? Little software available = more investment needed

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

And you know this how??

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

By the way,what do you do and what is your salary?

Would the answer to any of these questions make my opinions and questions any less valid?

seavill wrote: »

Micropig do not take this as a personal attach just a clarification as I do believe they way you posted can lead to it being misconstrued.

I must say I was shocked at this quote when I read it however in fairness to you, you quoted the link which actually says

"striking was not an option under the terms of the Croke Park agreement"

your headline implies that teachers refused to back a strike for special needs but were backing one for pay.

the article points out that teachers were not allowed strike because it would breach the CPA

Another quote from the link

"Alan Bedford, Coolock, Dublin, who called for a vote in favour of strike action, said it was an issue of pay versus special needs. “Croke Park has tied our hands and our feet – we can’t do anything for these kids"

Who agreed to the Croke Park Agreement

Hint: It makes up a group of teachers

Eoin247

A)tackling the behaviour issues in our schools? Do you think a student is behaving badly if they won't sit quietly at their desk for 40 minutes?

I myself am in secondary school, and I am shocked at the amount of teachers that cannot control their class. Usualy it's just one or two kids who lead the rest of the class, and we get very little done. Teachers seem to be afraid to admit that they cannot control their classes as it might reflect badly on them. As a result the problem never gets solved and the few idiots who disrupt the class continue to do so.

B)Improving students attainment levels? (which are poor compared to other countries?)

Have proper screening for teachers, and make it easier for schools to fire bad teachers. From talking to my peers, there's always that one teacher who simply cannot teach.

C)Improving working conditions for teachers (decrease time spent planning, correcting etc)?

Not much to say to this one. "decrease time spent planning, correcting etc" sounds more like laziness than "improving working conditions".

D) Improving resources, equipment & buildings in schools?

Not needed at all in my opinion. You don't need ipads, laptops and specially designed desks to learn. You just need motivation.

E) Get students interested in learning?

Unless you want to have classes like "videogaming 101" this area is very hard to improve. School isn't supposed to be fun, i just want to get my points and go to college. So unless the entire education system and subjects are revamped, this isn't a simple fix.

dambarude

micropig wrote: »

More technology in class = more engaged pupils = less behavioral problems=less stress for teaches


I don't see wages mentioned once in that equation

But the problem is your equation is too simple.

More technology in a class will not automatically lead to engaged pupils. You need the right technology, and you need a teacher who is motivated enough to integrate it properly (it can be a lot of work setting children up, and getting children going on programs). Many programs are glorified textbooks on a screen, full of irrelevant whirrs and bangs, and of little educational value. Much of what the children could be shown through them can be done with a projector. Now obviously there are many exceptions to this rule, and individual access to a computer has many advantages. Technology is useful but will not eradicate discipline/attainment issues.

Why do teachers have to receive training to use a laptop? Is it not taught on the HDip how to use technology in the classroom? Little software available = more investment needed

Because a HDip or B.Ed would only recently have started to include technology in its course content. You cannot assume that a teacher who has little experience with technology, and completed their qualification years ago will automatically be able to integrate it effectively into their teaching. Likewise, you cannot assume that they won't be able to do it either.

I agree that having more technology would be a good move, but it's ridiculous to think that any savings made in teachers' wages would go towards it. Cuts to pay would not be reinvested, but spent on the numerous blackholes the previous government opened up.

micropig

Eoin247 wrote: »

I myself am in secondary school, and I am shocked at the amount of teachers that cannot control their class. Usualy it's just one or two kids who lead the rest of the class, and we get very little done. Teachers seem to be afraid to admit that they cannot control their classes as it might reflect badly on them. As a result the problem never gets solved and the few idiots who disrupt the class continue to do so.

What kind of activities are the teachers trying to do when they can't control the class. Why do you think students will do do as the teacher is asking?

Eoin247 wrote: »

B)Improving students attainment levels? (which are poor compared to other countries?)

Have proper screening for teachers, and make it easier for schools to fire bad teachers. From talking to my peers, there's always that one teacher who simply cannot teach.

What activities does a teacher who can not teach do in their lessons?
What activities does a teacher who can teach do in their lessons?

Eoin247 wrote: »

C)Improving working conditions for teachers (decrease time spent planning, correcting etc)?

Not much to say to this one. "decrease time spent planning, correcting etc" sounds more like laziness than "improving working conditions".

Students learn more by correcting work (their own or their classmates), than they learn when the teacher corrects it. The can see where mistakes are made and it can increase their understanding of a topic.

Would you think most students read the comments their teacher writes in the book and thinks of it the next time they do something?

Eoin247 wrote: »

D) Improving resources, equipment & buildings in schools?

Not needed at all in my opinion. You don't need ipads, laptops and specially designed desks to learn. You just need motivation.

Wouldn't it be more interesting with ipads though. Would you not rather go to school in a state of the art building with facilities?

Eoin247 wrote: »

E) Get students interested in learning?

Unless you want to have classes like "videogaming 101" this area is very hard to improve. School isn't supposed to be fun, i just want to get my points and go to college. So unless the entire education system and subjects are revamped, this isn't a simple fix.

Learning can be fun. Lots of interactive games & resouces on the internet. Students can research topics (independent learning & research skillls), educational youtube videos etc.....an infinite amount of resources & ways to use them

marketty

I think micropig sells laptops

micropig

dambarude wrote: »

But the problem is your equation is too simple.

More technology in a class will not automatically lead to engaged pupils. You need the right technology, and you need a teacher who is motivated enough to integrate it properly (it can be a lot of work setting children up, and getting children going on programs). Many programs are glorified textbooks on a screen, full of irrelevant whirrs and bangs, and of little educational value. Much of what the children could be shown through them can be done with a projector. Now obviously there are many exceptions to this rule, and individual access to a computer has many advantages. Technology is useful but will not eradicate discipline/attainment issues.


Because a HDip or B.Ed would only recently have started to include technology in its course content. You cannot assume that a teacher who has little experience with technology, and completed their qualification years ago will automatically be able to integrate it effectively into their teaching. Likewise, you cannot assume that they won't be able to do it either.

I agree that having more technology would be a good move, but it's ridiculous to think that any savings made in teachers' wages would go towards it. Cuts to pay would not be reinvested, but spent on the numerous blackholes the previous government opened up.

If your spending the money, why not buy the right software?
Don't need software for internet
Will not eradicate discipline issue, but will reduce them

Can children interact with a projector?

Surely teachers could have done a short course in using technology in their classrooms by now. It's 2011. If not teachers should be required to keep up with advances like this.


I'm not suggesting money saved is spent anywhere other than improving facilities