How would you solve the problems in the Education system?

seavill · 06-02-2012 01:10AM

Apologies to everyone but I do not know how to answer a quote and then continue the quote so I will use Bold and Italics for my replies:

micropig wrote: »

Not sure what the above has to do with this thread? Does my background make my points any less valid?

I think you may have taken my question in the wrong way. I asked as you mentioned it in the thread similar to this that was started in AH. I think it gives context to everything. You are the one that brought it up in the other thread so it has something to do with this thread.
It does not make any points less valid as you said at the start everyone should have an input. It was just a question. Apologies if you took it as a personal attack as seems to be the case.

If schools where better resources teachers would have more choice in the type of activities they can do with the children.
More engaged children = less behaviour issues=Better for teacher

It does not matter how well resourced the schools are if a teacher is not interested or not able to use the resources it is irrelevant.

Again the point I brought up was kids need to be able to sit still for 40 mins its a part of exam life and working life. I am not saying they sit still for the whole day but sometimes it has to be done

Again more facilities more interesting lessons could be planned

Speaking from experience, poor teaching, poor parenting, or poor discipline management from the principal far outweighs resources. The particular school I worked in was extremely well resources with small classes as it was a DEIS school

Agree, parents have to be held more accountable

With the current facilities & system I'm not sure that more time is the answer. If the students are not learning with the time the teacher has, why would extra time be beneficial? I think this goes back to the teaching strategies being used, more resources would mean more options for teacher.

Agreed exam system needs an overhaul. we need to find a good way of assessing individual students progress. Does it really matter that the student doesn't reach the national average, if it can be shown that as an individual the student is progressing and learning?

I strongly disagree with you there, if I have extra time to spend with each individual child instead of having to rush through material just to get the course covered in too short a time it does make a huge difference. I think this is just common sense

I'm suggesting that teachers could reduce the time they spent correcting significantly if they train & guide the students in self & peer assessment and use it.

Students learn a lot from correcting. Not suggesting it will cut out the teachers need to correct, but can cut the time a teachers spends correcting significantly, giving them more time to focus on correcting exam years.

I'm not suggesting cutting corners on planning as I think this is one of the most important aspects of teaching. Usually in a school, a couple of teachers, teach the same subject. Can they not plan the lessons together/each plan a couple & swap, as they are teaching the same content? Each lesson should have a lesson plan. The lesson plan should include differentiation for weaker & stronger pupils. Each teacher just has to tweak it to suit their class, instead of each teacher completely planning the lesson themselves.

Peer and self assessment is a great tool to use, which I do from time to time, but in reality this has to be also checked and kept an eye on, and from a students point of view if they think a teacher is not going to check the work they will not do it, and who would blame them

nowadays subject departments do work off the same scheme of work and are generally on the same things at the same time but using the same lesson plan with a "little tweaking" is just not good practice as every lesson must be tailored to the individual student and class

What would you consider an interesting way?

It obviously depends on the subject or topic but I will give an example

If I get a class to work in groups and make presentations to the rest of the class on different topics I have found from experience that I have to go back over all the material again as students will not always point out the relevant material or miss bits. This is not a prob and I love using this with my classes but I find the students will learn their topic very well but the other topics not very well at all so I need to go back over the material, obviously this takes extra time as the material is being covered twice but it does make it more interesting for the kids

I know you don't decide what to get paid, but the unions (made up of teachers) will strike over and threat to their pensions etc but not over the cuts to SNA's.

I have responded to the outlandish accusation in another point but just to recap the Union on that day said THEY CANNOT STRIKE BECAUSE OF RESOURCE CUTS AS IT WOULD BREAK THE CROKE PARK AGREEMENT. A STRIKE WAS PROPOSED FOR THIS PURPOSE BY A TEACHER THIS IS HOW IT CAME UP FOR DISCUSS.
Just as we cannot strike due to pay because of the CPA

this is also disgraceful, but not the issue we are discussing here.

I would disagree you mentioned in a separate post about teachers pay and holidays so you can bring up a solution but we cannot. It is part of this discussion as you brought up lack of resources and how to solve that. I have just given an answer

Do teachers ring home to tell the parents that johnny does something really well in school? I think they should (obviousness not every students everyday)

In my school we ring home occasionally, however with 8 classes of approx 30 students it is not always practical. In my school we write good notes (along with bad ones) to parents in their diaries and also send home postcards acknowledging good work by students. This is really only used in Junior cycle classes

Not suggesting that you do not try your best with the facilities you have but suggesting you would do better with better facilities

I find the facilities I have fine tbh, obviously they could be better but you could always say that. I find the lack of SNA's, resource hours, and lack of hours in the day or months in the year bigger issues than resources

Benicetomonty · 06-02-2012 01:13AM

Have to agree with seavill as to the actual discipline one needs to learn in school, even something as elementary as sitting still for a period of 40 minutes. Micropig, you immediately assumed that this was my only method of teaching (self-serving and entirely untrue) on aforementioned after hours thread, but in order to write essays, sit exams and work in the real world, it is as necessary a skill as anything kids learn in school. Continuing to deny this damages any credibility you may have in this debate
Indeed, the decline in education you keep referring to may well have something to do with the erosion of this system, since it was essentially the 'tried and tested' method up until very recently!

As for the education system, I believe that the gulf in difference between the wages of NQTs and pre-2012/2011 registered teachers will prove extremely damaging, because people will be doing the same work (and often considerably more work) for less money. Fairness and equality has been thrown out the window and I cannot understand why the unions are not taking far more serious action than they have to date. I personally would be perfectly happy to accept a 2% pay cut across the board ( a figure necessary according to something I read recently..) if it meant the retention of posts, SNAs, language teachers, traveller education grant..etc.

After that, a fair and transparent way to assess teachers ought to be pursued, with the objective being to remove completely ineffective teachers, not to punish those that are perfectly competent. I had a subject inspection last April and the performance of one colleague was heavily criticised, coming as a surprise to no-one. But nothing was/ could be done about it. This is what needs to be addressed.

seavill · 06-02-2012 01:20AM

Micropig I do think the equation of resources/technology = better behaviour is a little too simplistic. It has its merits but its not as simple as this.

For example I showed a short video to the class (an excellent resource ideal for what I wanted) I prepared worksheets for them based on the video and integrated it into the overall scheme for that chapter.
I had 2 students who thought as there was noise of the video this allowed them to talk during it (I cleared up this misconception fairly quickly for them:D) I also had 1 student who was unable to read the questions on the worksheet and as a result was not engaged in the video at all, whereas if I had been able to call out the questions he would have been able for it, however me stopping the video every minute to read the next question would have defeated the purpose of this particular video.

So technology is not always an answer

micropig · 06-02-2012 01:22AM

@seavill sorry if I came across abrupt but I have been asked this a lot and I do not think my background etc. make my points any less valid

Peer assessment =not suggesting teachers do not check the work at all.

Every lesson must be tailored, but easier to tailor when the bulk of activities are in front of you

Interesting lesson you described = active learning for the students. I'm suggesting children need more of active learning activities in the classroom.

Some sitting at the desk but more where the student is actively required to participate /research for themselves

Who agreed to the CPA?

It good that you give good and bad feedback to parents. , but why is it just used usually in Juniior cycles. Does the achievements of upper cycles not deserved to be recognised?

Lack of time in the year etc would you be prepared to sacrifice some of the summer holidays as a solution?

micropig · 06-02-2012 01:24AM

seavill wrote: »

Micropig I do think the equation of resources/technology = better behaviour is a little too simplistic. It has its merits but its not as simple as this.

For example I showed a short video to the class (an excellent resource ideal for what I wanted) I prepared worksheets for them based on the video and integrated it into the overall scheme for that chapter.
I had 2 students who thought as there was noise of the video this allowed them to talk during it (I cleared up this misconception fairly quickly for them:D) I also had 1 student who was unable to read the questions on the worksheet and as a result was not engaged in the video at all, whereas if I had been able to call out the questions he would have been able for it, however me stopping the video every minute to read the next question would have defeated the purpose of this particular video.

So technology is not always an answer

remove students from class, follow up with corrective action

Worksheets with easier questions for weaker pupils. Do you do different worksheets for weaker, average & gifted students?

seavill · 06-02-2012 01:31AM

micropig wrote: »

@seavill sorry if I came across abrupt but I have been asked this a lot and I do not think my background etc. make my points any less valid

Peer assessment =not suggesting teachers do not check the work at all.

Every lesson must be tailored, but easier to tailor when the bulk of activities are in front of you

Interesting lesson you described = active learning for the students. I'm suggesting children need more of active learning activities in the classroom.

Some sitting at the desk but more where the student is actively required to participate /research for themselves

Who agreed to the CPA?

It good that you give good and bad feedback to parents. , but why is it just used usually in Juniior cycles. Does the achievements of upper cycles not deserved to be recognised?

Lack of time in the year etc would you be prepared to sacrifice some of the summer holidays as a solution?

Your background does not make your points any less valid, in fact it may make them even more valid as (as i already mentioned) you mentioned yourself before something about an educational background so by explaining this is may stop people sniping at you.

Yes but you must still do the correcting in the end of the day which is my point.

As I mentioned subject departments do plan schemes together THEY MUST, and do share all resources in every one of the 5 schools I have taught in. I think you are describing back in the day when no one talked to each other.

Not everything can be made active and as I explained sometimes it can be detrimental to getting a course covered but it does work and it does engage the weaker learner.

I am not saying teachers did not agree to the CPA however, the CPA covers all sectors of the public sector, I recall teachers being one of the last to sign up to it and as a result got slated in the press for not signing up. Now being slated for doing that. If we back out now are you telling me the papers and general public would not go to town on teachers for causing the downfall of it???

The post cards are only used in Junior cycle classes as the senior students are a bit old for a nice postcard home to parents. More contact is kept with parents in older classes through phone and letters, but as I mentioned extremely hard to do with the numbers you are talking about in secondary schools.

I have already said that we should work more weeks in the year and you disagreed with me saying what good would more time do, now you are giving out that I did not suggest having less summer holidays, make up your mind please.

Just to clarify I already said that I think we should have less holidays and a paycut across the board.

seavill · 06-02-2012 01:35AM

micropig wrote: »

remove students from class, follow up with corrective action

Worksheets with easier questions for weaker pupils. Do you do different worksheets for weaker, average & gifted students?

You cannot remove a student from the room. You cannot put them outside the door. If you speak to them outside the door individually you are leaving your class unattended.

As I said in my post I sorted the problem of the students talking very easily.

Yes worksheets are different, however in a 5th year class there are certain terms and phrases that must be used. This student has a very low reading age.

This particular worksheet I am talking about was purely finding information in the video as it happened, the differentiated work came after this based on the answers that they found.

micropig · 06-02-2012 01:35AM

Benicetomonty wrote: »

40 minutes. Micropig, you immediately assumed that this was my only method of teaching (self-serving and entirely untrue) on aforementioned after hours thread, but in order to write essays, sit exams and work in the real world, it is as necessary a skill as anything kids learn in school. Continuing to deny this damages any credibility you may have in this debate

Why is it important that students can sit still for 40 minutes. Outside school, when do you do this? Mass is the only other situation I can think of.

If we had to go back to the other thread, you suggested that students had behaviour problems because they wouldn't sit in the desk for 40 minutes. Would you like to come to my house & I'll talk at you for 40 minutes (I might get you to do a few questions) and then go to my neighbours house and do the same? I know I wouldn't enjoy it.

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Indeed, the decline in education you keep referring to may well have something to do with the erosion of this system, since it was essentially the 'tried and tested' method up until very recently!

As for the education system, I believe that the gulf in difference between the wages of NQTs and pre-2012/2011 registered teachers will prove extremely damaging, because people will be doing the same work (and often considerably more work) for less money. Fairness and equality has been thrown out the window and I cannot understand why the unions are not taking far more serious action than they have to date. I personally would be perfectly happy to accept a 2% pay cut across the board ( a figure necessary according to something I read recently..) if it meant the retention of posts, SNAs, language teachers, traveller education grant..etc.

After that, a fair and transparent way to assess teachers ought to be pursued, with the objective being to remove completely ineffective teachers, not to punish those that are perfectly competent. I had a subject inspection last April and the performance of one colleague was heavily criticised, coming as a surprise to no-one. But nothing was/ could be done about it. This is what needs to be addressed.

I actually suggesting rewarding those who are skilled teachers and are outstanding at their job, but we need to get rid of ineffective ones first.

More SNA's in the classroom, teacher has more adult help, less behaviour issues, better for teachers

Do SNA's only focus on one child or will they help others at the table etc who are struggling? (although most focus is on the child they are supporting). Is it acceptable practice for a teacher use an SNA as a helper in the classroom?

micropig · 06-02-2012 01:38AM

seavill wrote: »

You cannot remove a student from the room. You cannot put them outside the door. If you speak to them outside the door individually you are leaving your class unattended.

As I said in my post I sorted the problem of the students talking very easily.

Yes worksheets are different, however in a 5th year class there are certain terms and phrases that must be used. This student has a very low reading age.

This particular worksheet I am talking about was purely finding information in the video as it happened, the differentiated work came after this based on the answers that they found.

This is an issue the unions should be shouting about. How teachers be expected to do the job when they are no support in place to tackle behaviour issues is beyond me

If the student has a low reading age, pictures etc can be used as an aid

Would it have been benefical for the student who found it hard to keep up, if he watched the video a laptop and could pause/rewind it etc whenever he wanted?

seavill · 06-02-2012 01:40AM

micropig wrote: »

Why is it important that students can sit still for 40 minutes. Outside school, when do you do this? Mass is the only other situation I can think of.

If we had to go back to the other thread, you suggested that students had behaviour problems because they wouldn't sit in the desk for 40 minutes. Would you like to come to my house & I'll talk at you for 40 minutes (I might get you to do a few questions) and then go to my neighbours house and do the same? I know I wouldn't enjoy it.

I actually suggesting rewarding those who are skilled teachers and are outstanding at their job, but we need to get rid of ineffective ones first.

More SNA's in the classroom, teacher has more adult help, less behaviour issues, better for teachers

Do SNA's only focus on one child or will they help others at the table etc who are struggling? (although most focus is on the child they are supporting). Is it acceptable practice for a teacher use an SNA as a helper in the classroom?

SNA's are not there for behavioural support to the teacher.

Nowadays if any child still has a SNA they managed to keep them in the cuts becasue they really really need one. SNA's will try and assist a student near by if they can in general but most of the time they do not have the time.

No SNA's are not a classroom "helper" they are there to do a very specific difficult, demanding, time consuming job, and they are needed to do that job not the be a teaching assistant

micropig · 06-02-2012 01:45AM

seavill wrote: »

SNA's are not there for behavioural support to the teacher.

Nowadays if any child still has a SNA they managed to keep them in the cuts becasue they really really need one. SNA's will try and assist a student near by if they can in general but most of the time they do not have the time.

No SNA's are not a classroom "helper" they are there to do a very specific difficult, demanding, time consuming job, and they are needed to do that job not the be a teaching assistant

Maybe the role of the SNA should be extended. Not suggesting they don't focus on the child they are supporting but what is the harm in them telling disruptive students to be quiet etc.?

Obviously though the Teacher is in charge

seavill · 06-02-2012 01:46AM

micropig wrote: »

This is an issue the unions should be shouting about. How teachers be expected to do the job when they are no support in place to tackle behaviour issues is beyond me

If the student has a low reading age, pictures etc can be used as an aid

Would it have been benefical for the student who found it hard to keep up, if he watched the video a laptop and could pause/rewind it etc whenever he wanted?

Because due to the entire system that we have, the student causing the trouble generally has more rights than the rest of the class they are disrupting.

I will give you an example, when watching a step by step video on photosynthesis the question may be " name the substance that is produced during photosynthesis?" the answer is displayed during the brilliant video clip.

Are you going to answer the question about your background?

How do I put that question into pictures for this student? I cannot think of any way. Can you?

Also think of the 17 year old student who is given a handout, the only person in the class with a question with pictures in it. How will that student feel? If you give that same question with pictures to the entire class you are really not challenging the gifted students in any way.

seavill · 06-02-2012 01:49AM

micropig wrote: »

Would it have been benefical for the student who found it hard to keep up, if he watched the video a laptop and could pause/rewind it etc whenever he wanted?

If he cannot read the question in the first place how is this possible?

micropig · 06-02-2012 01:50AM

seavill wrote: »

Because due to the entire system that we have, the student causing the trouble generally has more rights than the rest of the class they are disrupting.

I will give you an example, when watching a step by step video on photosynthesis the question may be " name the substance that is produced during photosynthesis?" the answer is displayed during the brilliant video clip.

How do I put that question into pictures for this student? I cannot think of any way. Can you?

Also think of the 17 year old student who is given a handout, the only person in the class with a question with pictures in it. How will that student feel? If you give that same question with pictures to the entire class you are really not challenging the gifted students in any way.

Example photosynthesis through song

Students surely know that not everyone in the class has the same ability. In most schools in UK standard practice to hand out different worksheets etc. Children get used to it. Children get to understand that everyone works at their own level.

I think our students aren't mature because we are not giving then the opportunity and encouraging them to show us they can be

micropig · 06-02-2012 01:51AM

seavill wrote: »

If he cannot read the question in the first place how is this possible?

If he is not able to read the question why are you giving him a handout with the questions on it. What do you think this does to his self confidence, not being able to?

seavill · 06-02-2012 01:58AM

micropig wrote: »

If he is not able to read the question why are you giving him a handout with the questions on it. What do you think this does to his self confidence, not being able to?

This was my first time teaching this particular group and I was not aware of the situation.

However going back to the original point, I have given an example of a situation where I used technology in the classroom and as you can see we can still come up with 20 more problems that can occur even with the best intention in the world to make the classes as active as possible. You came back to me with using another video clip. The point I am making is technology is not the answer to behavioural issues as you were making it out to be.

SNA's have enough to be doing looking after their student(s) rather than extending their workload. In general they already help out as much as they can and do tell lads to be quiet if it is needed.

Can I ask you again what your educational background is, as I do believe it gives extra weight to your arguments.

Benicetomonty · 06-02-2012 02:00AM

micropig wrote: »

Why is it important that students can sit still for 40 minutes. Outside school, when do you do this? Mass is the only other situation I can think of.

If we had to go back to the other thread, you suggested that students had behaviour problems because they wouldn't sit in the desk for 40 minutes. Would you like to come to my house & I'll talk at you for 40 minutes (I might get you to do a few questions) and then go to my neighbours house and do the same? I know I wouldn't enjoy it.

Are you actually joking me? I spent an hour this evening correcting 2 essays-there's your example! Outside of professional sports, I doubt there's a job in existence that does not require the worker to spend at least 40 minutes at some stage during the week in one position or another, even if it's just answering the phone or completing some paperwork!

And I believe I said I didn't think it was too much to ask if a student was to sit reasonably still for 40 minutes every once in a while, like if they were doing an in-class exam or writing a research essay (an activity you suggested in the same thread, one that's very difficult to do standing up and role-playing).
If the 5 words in bold above weren't obviously implied (even though they were), then apologies

Pedantic much?

micropig · 06-02-2012 02:11AM

seavill wrote: »

This was my first time teaching this particular group and I was not aware of the situation.

However going back to the original point, I have given an example of a situation where I used technology in the classroom and as you can see we can still come up with 20 more problems that can occur even with the best intention in the world to make the classes as active as possible. You came back to me with using another video clip. The point I am making is technology is not the answer to behavioural issues as you were making it out to be.

SNA's have enough to be doing looking after their student(s) rather than extending their workload. In general they already help out as much as they can and do tell lads to be quiet if it is needed.

Can I ask you again what your educational background is, as I do believe it gives extra weight to your arguments.

Why weren't you aware of the situation? Teachers should have this information, even so every lesson should be differentiated so all abilities can participate

Through song is just another example of how this pupil could learn about photosynthesis, (maybe he has an interest in music and would engage quicker with a song) they're are many other ways. Hand a child a book and hand a child an ipod, which do you think they would enjoy more? Again, more engaged students = less behavioral issues

*not suggesting students only use computer but they can be used to support other teaching strategies

It great SNA's help out as much they can, obviously their focus on the child they are supporting, but if the child they are supporting is able to manage with the task, no harm on SNA giving help to another student who is struggling

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Are you actually joking me? I spent an hour this evening correcting 2 essays-there's your example! Outside of professional sports, I doubt there's a job in existence that does not require the worker to spend at least 40 minutes at some stage during the week in one position or another, even if it's just answering the phone or completing some paperwork!

And I believe I said I didn't think it was too much to ask if a student was to sit reasonably still for 40 minutes every once in a while, like if they were doing an in-class exam or writing a research essay (an activity you suggested in the same thread, one that's very difficult to do standing up and role-playing).
If the 5 words in bold above weren't obviously implied (even though they were), then apologies Pedantic much?

So we are sending our children to school to learn how to sit for 40 mins

Teachers complain students won't sit for 40 minutes quietly. If they know they will not do this, why are they planning classes that require the student to do so? This is only looking for trouble

(Remember student probably came from sitting 40 minutes in another class)

Edit: Just on the reseach an essay comment - Wouldn't it be better , if the teacher guided the student where to find the information
Some of the sources which could be used: Books, Internet in class

Current sources: Books, internet but not in class

seavill · 06-02-2012 02:21AM

micropig wrote: »

Why weren't you aware of the situation? Teachers should have this information, even so every lesson should be differentiated so all abilities can participate

Through song is just another example of how this pupil could learn about photosynthesis, (maybe he has an interest in music and would engage quicker with a song) they're are many other ways. Hand a child a book and hand a child an ipod, which do you think they would enjoy more? Again, more engaged students = less behavioral issues

*not suggesting students only use computer but they can be used to support other teaching strategies

It great SNA's help out as much they can, obviously their focus on the child they are supporting, but if the child they are supporting is able to manage with the task, no harm on SNA giving help to another student who is struggling

So we are sending our children to school to learn how to sit for 40 mins

Teachers complain students won't sit for 40 minutes quietly. If they know they will not do this, why are they planning classes that require the student to do so? This is only looking for trouble

(Remember student probably came from sitting 40 minutes in another class)

As i said I had a fantastic resource for the topic I was covering (it was not photosynthesis by the way that was just an example for you to answer how I use photos in a question, which you did not answer by the way)

I was not aware of it as I had to take over 9 single periods from a teacher who unexpectedly ended up in hospital. I was called in at less than a days notice and there is only so much info that can be given in the timeframe that was available

This particular students needs huge resource hours and there are fantastic teachers in the school to give it to him, however the hours are not available due to cuts,

The reality is that schools or any thing that is not a big multi national will not be able to keep up with technological advancements as they happen so talking about Ipads etc is not practical in terms of reality, of a whole country issue, and something that does not require a radical overhaul of the entire educational system.

Ok I will ask this for probably the 5th time and I know someone else already asked. What is your background in education or is there a reason you are refusing to answer the question?

You are making more of an issue out of it by not answering. Remember back to my first post I was actually on your side, not slating you like others.

And just to help the other poster she did not say that they would sit for 9 classes a day, she clearly gave you an example of doing a class test where it is required. Obviously as I and they have discussed we are the ones talking about using all these great ideas AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE

seavill · 06-02-2012 02:23AM

micropig wrote: »

Edit: Just on the reseach an essay comment - Wouldn't it be better , if the teacher guided the student where to find the information
Some of the sources which could be used: Books, Internet in class

Current sources: Books, internet but not in class

You want to equip every classroom in the country with 30 laptops/PCs to be used by every teacher in every lesson for research/videos/presentations/quizes?

Reality?

Background?

micropig · 06-02-2012 02:36AM

seavill wrote: »

As i said I had a fantastic resource for the topic I was covering (it was not photosynthesis by the way that was just an example for you to answer how I use photos in a question, which you did not answer by the way)

I was not aware of it as I had to take over 9 single periods from a teacher who unexpectedly ended up in hospital. I was called in at less than a days notice and there is only so much info that can be given in the timeframe that was available

This particular students needs huge resource hours and there are fantastic teachers in the school to give it to him, however the hours are not available due to cuts,

The reality is that schools or any thing that is not a big multi national will not be able to keep up with technological advancements as they happen so talking about Ipads etc is not practical in terms of reality, of a whole country issue, and something that does not require a radical overhaul of the entire educational system.

Ok I will ask this for probably the 5th time and I know someone else already asked. What is your background in education or is there a reason you are refusing to answer the question?

You are making more of an issue out of it by not answering. Remember back to my first post I was actually on your side, not slating you like others.

And just to help the other poster she did not say that they would sit for 9 classes a day, she clearly gave you an example of doing a class test where it is required. Obviously as I and they have discussed we are the ones talking about using all these great ideas AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE

Why use only one fantastic resource to teach a topic, why not use a few?

But surely every child with needs identified has a file, so no matter what teacher is teaching them, they could be aware of the situation. The teacher who was teaching the class a least had this flagged?

resource hours for students like these are a disgrace, but again unions did not fight for this over the years, to set up a proper system of proving support for struggling students?

What is your educational background? Have you worked in industry? Have you worked in schools abroad?

seavill wrote: »

You want to equip every classroom in the country with 30 laptops/PCs to be used by every teacher in every lesson for research/videos/presentations/quizes?

Reality?

Background?

In this day an age technology is not going anywhere, it is here to stay. When students leave school, they will be required to use technology, no matter what area they end up working in. Why are we not using these resources more?

Could start with sets of laptops schools could use. Teachers book them for whatever class requires them. Why would every teacher in every lesson be using the laptops? Again why do you only see it as the only teaching technique I am suggesting be used? Don't see any reason why it shouldn't be extended to all pupils over time.

seavill · 06-02-2012 02:49AM

micropig wrote: »

Why use only one fantastic resource to teach a topic, why not use a few?

But surely every child with needs identified has a file, so no matter what teacher is teaching them, they could be aware of the situation. The teacher who was teaching the class a least had this flagged?

resource hours for students like these are a disgrace, but again unions did not fight for this over the years, to set up a proper system of proving support for struggling students?

What is your educational background? Have you worked in industry? Have you worked in schools abroad?

In this day an age technology is not going anywhere, it is here to stay. When students leave school, they will be required to use technology, no matter what area they end up working in. Why are we not using these resources more?

Could start with sets of laptops schools could use. Teachers book them for whatever class requires them. Why would every teacher in every lesson be using the laptops? Again why do you only see it as the only teaching technique I am suggesting be used? Don't see any reason why it shouldn't be extended to all pupils over time.

I am only responding to the suggestions you discuss I.e. laptops for watching videos individually, research things you have mentioned book them fine but what about the times when you can't have them.

You are arguing the point about active lessons with 2 people who clearly use them and have given examples. I have given one example of 20 mins of one lesson and you are trying your best to pick holes in it where ever you can.

I worked in industry for 2 years as there was a lack of jobs at the time I then taught in England for a year before luckily finding jobs here. Teaching here 6 years. That's my background.

I am clearly agreeing with you and have done since I first posted. Every time I pointed out an obvious flaw in you arguments you drop it and move to something else. I have agreed and shown how I use active lessons and you still want to criticise me.

At this stage I am going to take it that you are one of those teachers you keep referring to that has failed and has given u because you could not control a class and now want to do the only thing you can do and attack teachers on an anonymous forum.
You are like one of those education lecturers in college who has never stepped foot in a classroom.

Reminder I had been agreeing with you all along until you won't answer the question and do nothing but try slag off those who are obviously interested due to our obvious interest in this forum

spurious · 06-02-2012 08:08AM

micropig wrote: »

remove students from class

This gave me a laugh, thanks.

Benicetomonty · 06-02-2012 09:26AM

micropig wrote: »

seavill wrote: »

This was my first time teaching this particular group and I was not aware of the situation.

However going back to the original point, I have given an example of a situation where I used technology in the classroom and as you can see we can still come up with 20 more problems that can occur even with the best intention in the world to make the classes as active as possible. You came back to me with using another video clip. The point I am making is technology is not the answer to behavioural issues as you were making it out to be.

SNA's have enough to be doing looking after their student(s) rather than extending their workload. In general they already help out as much as they can and do tell lads to be quiet if it is needed.

Can I ask you again what your educational background is, as I do believe it gives extra weight to your arguments.

Why weren't you aware of the situation? Teachers should have this information, even so every lesson should be differentiated so all abilities can participate

Through song is just another example of how this pupil could learn about photosynthesis, (maybe he has an interest in music and would engage quicker with a song) they're are many other ways. Hand a child a book and hand a child an ipod, which do you think they would enjoy more? Again, more engaged students = less behavioral issues

*not suggesting students only use computer but they can be used to support other teaching strategies

It great SNA's help out as much they can, obviously their focus on the child they are supporting, but if the child they are supporting is able to manage with the task, no harm on SNA giving help to another student who is struggling

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Are you actually joking me? I spent an hour this evening correcting 2 essays-there's your example! Outside of professional sports, I doubt there's a job in existence that does not require the worker to spend at least 40 minutes at some stage during the week in one position or another, even if it's just answering the phone or completing some paperwork!

And I believe I said I didn't think it was too much to ask if a student was to sit reasonably still for 40 minutes every once in a while, like if they were doing an in-class exam or writing a research essay (an activity you suggested in the same thread, one that's very difficult to do standing up and role-playing).
If the 5 words in bold above weren't obviously implied (even though they were), then apologies Pedantic much?

So we are sending our children to school to learn how to sit for 40 mins

Teachers complain students won't sit for 40 minutes quietly. If they know they will not do this, why are they planning classes that require the student to do so? This is only looking for trouble

(Remember student probably came from sitting 40 minutes in another class)

Edit: Just on the reseach an essay comment - Wouldn't it be better , if the teacher guided the student where to find the information
Some of the sources which could be used: Books, Internet in class

Current sources: Books, internet but not in class

Once again you cannot admit when youre wrong, like so many children that get themselves in trouble at school. Ive had enough. Whatever brief flirtation youve enjoyed/are enjoying with an education system has left you with lots of ideals and no experience whatsover.

micropig · 06-02-2012 01:41PM

seavill wrote: »

I am only responding to the suggestions you discuss I.e. laptops for watching videos individually, research things you have mentioned book them fine but what about the times when you can't have them.

You are arguing the point about active lessons with 2 people who clearly use them and have given examples. I have given one example of 20 mins of one lesson and you are trying your best to pick holes in it where ever you can.

I worked in industry for 2 years as there was a lack of jobs at the time I then taught in England for a year before luckily finding jobs here. Teaching here 6 years. That's my background.

I am clearly agreeing with you and have done since I first posted. Every time I pointed out an obvious flaw in you arguments you drop it and move to something else. I have agreed and shown how I use active lessons and you still want to criticise me.

At this stage I am going to take it that you are one of those teachers you keep referring to that has failed and has given u because you could not control a class and now want to do the only thing you can do and attack teachers on an anonymous forum.
You are like one of those education lecturers in college who has never stepped foot in a classroom.

Reminder I had been agreeing with you all along until you won't answer the question and do nothing but try slag off those who are obviously interested due to our obvious interest in this forum

I'm only suggesting solutions to the problems offered (none so far are the students fault, but all have to do with lack of motivation by the teacher to find out the level the students in the class are working at and presenting them with activities they may actually enjoy learning through.

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Once again you cannot admit when youre wrong, like so many children that get themselves in trouble at school. Ive had enough. Whatever brief flirtation youve enjoyed/are enjoying with an education system has left you with lots of ideals and no experience whatsover.

Will me being wrong fix the problems outlined in the OP?

The lack of solutions by teachers to their own problems again is astonishing, or are you suggesting the problems outlined don't exist?

what would you do to fix things?

Should teachers who haven't bothered to improve their skills and learn how to use technology in their class earn the same as those who have?

micropig · 06-02-2012 01:50PM

spurious wrote: »

This gave me a laugh, thanks.

Why are teachers/unions not shouting about the lack of support they are been given to effectively manage behaviour problems?

byhookorbycrook · 06-02-2012 04:13PM

micropig wrote: »

Why are teachers/unions not shouting about the lack of support they are been given to effectively manage behaviour problems?

Because we have and people like you brand it as "teachers whining again."

As to protesting against special needs cuts, we did that too- on Saturdays and withg parents and children ,once more taken as whining teachers.

I am amused by your idea that laptops for everyone will eradicate behavioural issues.

micropig · 06-02-2012 04:33PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Because we have and people like you brand it as "teachers whining again."

As to protesting against special needs cuts, we did that too- on Saturdays and withg parents and children ,once more taken as whining teachers.

I am amused by your idea that laptops for everyone will eradicate behavioural issues.

In what language does reduce mean eradicate?

Technology = more that just laptops

What is you solution?

*Unions should have sorted out a proper solution to support underachieving children when they had all the money, instead teachers striked because their pension where being cut. I'm sure the issue didn't just suddenly appear this year. It up to the unions to pick their battles and it's not the public's fault they choose to focus on pay and not conditions

lestat21 · 06-02-2012 04:49PM

I followed the previous discussion in after hours forum because I taut it was an important issue for teachers to be aware of but that thread just turned into teacher bashing and then bashing the bashers. I taut this thread would be different but micropig you dont have one positive thing to say to the suggestions of people who are your peers and colleagues. Its even worse as we now having teachers bashing other teachers.

As someone who implies they are a teacher, I'm sure you understand the importance of constructive criticism in keeping students on your side.

micropig · 06-02-2012 04:56PM

lestat21 wrote: »

I followed the previous discussion in after hours forum because I taut it was an important issue for teachers to be aware of but that thread just turned into teacher bashing and then bashing the bashers. I taut this thread would be different but micropig you dont have one positive thing to say to the suggestions of people who are your peers and colleagues. Its even worse as we now having teachers bashing other teachers.

As someone who implies they are a teacher, I'm sure you understand the importance of constructive criticism in keeping students on your side.

So your solution is just keep pretending that there are no issues and nothing wrong with the way we are educating children?

Maybe a teacher can see what is wrong, and is it a bad thing to question what we are doing? Is it wrong to look at ways to improve education?

Once you become a teacher, you are supposed to blindly stick up for a system with obvious flaws?

It's interesting to see how many teachers take offence when the education system is criticised.

And yet nobody has offered other solutions so far...............................

* I have said many positive things about other peoples suggestions
Is what you are saying constructive critism?

How would you solve the problems in the Education system?

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