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Tullow Oil - Holy F***

2»

Comments

  • #32
    4leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭4leto


    Then what would you have them do, to secure mineral/oil rights in these place is intensely competitive, would you rather Shell or BP get the rights, because believe me they would be in before you could blink an eye.

    So what do you suggest.


  • #33
    Blowfish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    4leto wrote: »
    Then what would you have them do, to secure mineral/oil rights in these place is intensely competitive, would you rather Shell or BP get the rights, because believe me they would be in before you could blink an eye.

    So what do you suggest.
    The issue isn't really so much whether Tullow Oil on their own were right or wrong to do this, but more if it was the Irish foreign aid money which 'oiled the wheel' for these deals to go ahead.


  • #34
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,967 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Well if we are going to give foreign aid we may as well get something back from it

    Aid with strings attached

    So maybe aid to some country and in return they'll commit to buying beef from us for example


  • #35
    geeky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭geeky


    4leto wrote: »
    Then what would you have them do, to secure mineral/oil rights in these place is intensely competitive, would you rather Shell or BP get the rights, because believe me they would be in before you could blink an eye.

    So what do you suggest.

    I'd suggest that more countries should implement laws like America recently has, whereby national companies that break the law while trading abroad face sanctions at home.

    I know people will give out that it's hard to implement and will cost companies money (it'll only cost them money if they break the law) but I'd rather a massive fight to see that become the norm than see everyone wash their hands as Western companies drive Africa back to the stone age, with the odd whip-round from Geldof and chums to make us all feel better.


  • #36
    Gmol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Gmol


    Hello Can you HelP mE
    I Am UgAnDan MP who needs TO move a large GiFT to another country as I am beIng PersecutEd Please send me your bank details and sort cOde to share in my good fortune


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  • #37
    4leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭4leto


    Blowfish wrote: »
    The issue isn't really so much whether Tullow Oil on their own were right or wrong to do this, but more if it was the Irish foreign aid money which 'oiled the wheel' for these deals to go ahead.

    Ohhh that is different, one thing a company doing it with their profits but not us the tax payer.


  • #38
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    geeky wrote: »
    are they really going to want to deal with the same country that robbed them blind?
    Tullow Oil != Ireland. Any administration would know that.
    Even leaving aside the notion that taxpayer money may have been used to sweeten the Uganda deal (see p.ie thread)
    Couldn't be arsed reading stupid amounts of posts on p.ie, but thanks for the summary. Even the flowchart above is a bit confusing without context.

    If that is the case, then it is a serious issue. An indication that governments using tax money in the interests of big business isn't just something the US is at.


  • #39
    geeky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭geeky


    seamus wrote: »
    Tullow Oil != Ireland. Any administration would know that.

    It's not just about the administration or intelligentsia, it's the ordinary people that [hopefully] matter. If you don't think an Irish company engaging in rampant corruption will affect Ireland's reputation, you're kidding yourself.

    The taxpayer thing (if true) is grotesque. But generally I have a problem with an Irish company lining the pockets of tin-pot presidents to rape Africa's natural resources and leave her people in grinding poverty.


  • #40
    UglyBolloxFace
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭UglyBolloxFace


    Pride Fighter wrote: »
    Co Carlow.

    Tullow oil, is I believe the second largest company listed on the ISEQ, (I think CRH is first). Both of them are absolute slime, CRH provides concrete to Israel to build walls to separate Palestinians from Israelis and Tullow does the likes of this.

    This does not surprise me. In capitalism the nice guys never win.


    Sigh...I hate when posters do this. You know FULL well that that's the case, as you Googled it before you posted.

    Why do people do this? Why not just say "Oh I googled it and found out that blah blah and such and such are in the following such and such"?

    Really irritates me.


  • #41
    Spread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭Spread


    Pride Fighter wrote: »
    Co Carlow.

    Tullow oil, is I believe the second largest company listed on the ISEQ, (I think CRH is first). Both of them are absolute slime, CRH provides concrete to Israel to build walls to separate Palestinians from Israelis and Tullow does the likes of this.

    This does not surprise me. In capitalism the nice guys never win.

    How did you ever become a mod? Get real and live in the real world. Backsheesh is business in Africa. No backsheesh, no business. You've got a mischief maker in Uganda throwing this about for non-transparent reasons. If you owned a paper shop would you refuse to sell papers/mags/cigs to the local scumbags? So wise up and take an adult view on this.

    Today's WSJ:



    By NICHOLAS BARIYO

    KAMPALA Uganda—U.K.-based Tullow Oil PLC, which operates three oil blocks in Uganda's oil-rich Lake Albertine Rift, Tuesday denied allegations that it paid several Ugandan officials to sway key decisions regarding its licenses in the country, officials said Tuesday.
    In a letter addressed to the parliamentary speaker, Tullow Oil Chief Executive Aidan Heavey said the company "rejects the outrageous and defamatory accusations of corruption" made against it in the Ugandan Parliament during the debate Monday evening.
    The Ugandan prime minister, Amama Mbabazi, one of the government officials being accused of bribery, read the letter on the floor of parliament during an emergency session to discuss oil issues in the country.
    "Tullow will examine all possible legal action to protect the reputations of the company and its employees," Tullow stated in the letter, which was seen by The Wall Street Journal.
    The letter was responding to allegations of Gerald Karuhanga, a lawmaker who presented a number of documents in the house Monday, accusing Tullow of wiring millions of dollars of money to the accounts of several government ministers ahead of Tullow's purchase of Heritage Oil PLC stakes in the country and the subsequent sale of two thirds of its stakes in the three blocks to France's Total SA and China's CNOOC.
    Lawmakers want the government to delay the approval of Tullow's $2.9 billion sale to Total and CNOOC until the graft allegations are probed.
    Tullow had initially indicated that it would conclude the sale in September.
    A debate over the matter is continuing in the Ugandan parliament.


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  • #42
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    geeky wrote: »
    I'd suggest that more countries should implement laws like America recently has, whereby national companies that break the law while trading abroad face sanctions at home.

    I know people will give out that it's hard to implement and will cost companies money (it'll only cost them money if they break the law) but I'd rather a massive fight to see that become the norm than see everyone wash their hands as Western companies drive Africa back to the stone age, with the odd whip-round from Geldof and chums to make us all feel better.

    The Russians or Chinese will get in instead.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #43
    4leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭4leto


    If it was Irish aid money used for bribery purposes, that is wrong, that is not what we expect this taxpayers money to be used for.

    But it would be naive to think that countries do not aid their nations companies. They do and so does the Americans.

    But the OP is right, if by some freak of nature bribery was wiped out in Africa so would a lot of its poverty.

    Depressing as this is, I guarantee this oil find in Uganda will not benefit the people of that country in any significant way. The revenue will be pissed away on corruption and probably arms.


  • #44
    geeky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭geeky


    Spread wrote: »
    How did you ever become a mod? Get real and live in the real world. Backsheesh is business in Africa. No backsheesh, no business. You've got a mischief maker in Uganda throwing this about for non-transparent reasons. If you owned a paper shop would you refuse to sell papers/mags/cigs to the local scumbags? So wise up and take an adult view on this.

    Since the previous poster hasn't commented...

    'Refusing to sell scumbags newspapers' is an absurd analogy. 'Not encouraging scumbags to rob their peers/family to buy newspapers/ciggies/booze/arms' would be a more accurate one.

    Tullow is accused of lining politicians' pockets so it can take Uganda's oil for less than it's worth, thus keeping millions of people in grinding poverty, and leading to thousands of early deaths. That's a whole lot worse than being a 'local scumbag', quite frankly.

    It's funny how an 'adult view' always tends to suit people/organisations with money who want a license to exploit others.


  • #45
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,727 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    geeky wrote: »
    Since the previous poster hasn't commented...

    'Refusing to sell scumbags newspapers' is an absurd analogy. 'Not encouraging scumbags to rob their peers/family to buy newspapers/ciggies/booze/arms' would be a more accurate one.

    Tullow is accused of lining politicians' pockets so it can take Uganda's oil for less than it's worth, thus keeping millions of people in grinding poverty, and leading to thousands of early deaths. That's a whole lot worse than being a 'local scumbag', quite frankly.

    It's funny how an 'adult view' always tends to suit people/organisations with money who want a license to exploit others.

    I did not feel a need to comment. But I agree with what you say. Also it is grown up to boycott due to humanitarian grounds in response to the person you quoted, fair trade, ethics and good produce. They do matter. Also where it is made is hugely important. I do not buy Israeli goods at all and would encourage everyone to follow the international BDS campaign like I do. Apartheid must end there, and hopefully it will.


  • #46
    Spread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭Spread


    Business is business and honesty is honesty. Whether its a football player diving, an editor hypeing up some story, a farmer puffing up a cow at a fair, an impressario promising the world, a religion selling salvation, a salesman flogging you a car, you trying to sell your house or a businessman trying to get a better margin .............. 'tis what makes the world go around. Competition is the great catalyst for improvement. And so, greasing palms is part and parcel of business in lots of parts of the world.
    What if the government, like Amin's in the late 60s, nationalised Tullow. Would you feel sorry for Tullow's shareholders? Tell me one country in Africa in which the lives of the inhabitants improved radically because of business ethics.
    Have you ever bribed your child? Given a PC answer when it was not your real thought? Done something to gain an edge over an opponent? As a salesman, would it be right to install a neon advertising sign and a retractable awning for free ....... just to gain more shelf space from a shopkeeper? Or paying a hefty premium for a better shelving situation from a bookshop owner? These are the facts of life.
    Utopian society etc is the stuff of fantasy. Children are taught right from wrong but when they enter the real world they see that it is dog eat dog. If the world was full of Mother Theresas .......... all doing good things and not creating wealth, where do you think we'd be? I know what I think ........ down the Swanee.


  • #47
    geeky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭geeky


    Spread wrote: »
    Business is business and honesty is honesty. Whether its a football player diving, an editor hypeing up some story, a farmer puffing up a cow at a fair, an impressario promising the world, a religion selling salvation, a salesman flogging you a car, you trying to sell your house or a businessman trying to get a better margin .............. 'tis what makes the world go around. Competition is the great catalyst for improvement. And so, greasing palms is part and parcel of business in lots of parts of the world.
    What if the government, like Amin's in the late 60s, nationalised Tullow. Would you feel sorry for Tullow's shareholders? Tell me one country in Africa in which the lives of the inhabitants improved radically because of business ethics.
    Have you ever bribed your child? Given a PC answer when it was not your real thought? Done something to gain an edge over an opponent? As a salesman, would it be right to install a neon advertising sign and a retractable awning for free ....... just to gain more shelf space from a shopkeeper? Or paying a hefty premium for a better shelving situation from a bookshop owner? These are the facts of life.
    Utopian society etc is the stuff of fantasy. Children are taught right from wrong but when they enter the real world they see that it is dog eat dog. If the world was full of Mother Theresas .......... all doing good things and not creating wealth, where do you think we'd be? I know what I think ........ down the Swanee.

    Ok, if you're preaching a doctrine of moral nihilism, I can see why you don't have a problem with paying off politicians to get a better deal on oil that could have lifted millions of Ugandans out of poverty.

    But don't compare it to trying to get a good price for your house, giving PC answers or 'bribing your child', because that's just stupid.


  • #48
    galwayrush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,816 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    I want to buy Tullow Oil Shares, all i have in exchange is 1000 euro and an old lap top... 5 million shares seems about right...:D


  • #49
    flash1080
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭flash1080


    SELL!!! SELL!!! SELL!!! :pac:


  • #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,079 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Latest on this:

    http://allafrica.com/stories/201110110573.html
    Uganda: Top Ministers Took Bribes From Tullow Oil - Parliament Told

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0203/tullow-business.html
    Green light for Tullow Uganda deals

    Synopsis - Tullow oil want oil contract in Uganda.
    Irish minister at the time Michael Martin flies there to hang out with the Ugandan government
    Michael Martin announces and increase in Aid to Uganda.
    Sometime later Uganda buts half a dozen top of the range fighter jets from Russia (basically using our money)
    Tullow oil gets contracts.
    Some disputes - toos and fros- about contracts and the Ugandan government repossess an oil field and later Tullow Oil get more deals.

    More recently Tullow Oil is accused of bribing the Ugandan government.
    Last week Tullow oil get approved for more deals.

    Irish aid to countries like this should be cut by 100%
    Michael Martin should be hung drawn and quartered for giving our money away to people to buy weapons from the Russians or anyone for that matter.


  • #51
    shedweller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭shedweller


    I think we can rule out moral obligations when it comes to ugandan aid. So the question is why are we sending them aid? Or rather, why are our elected officials sending aid on our behalf, to a country that has way more wealth than we do? Why?


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  • #52
    kupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭kupus


    dilallio wrote: »
    That Ugandan MP is only peeed off cos he didn't get his cut.

    ....This quote sums up everything about this story
    4leto wrote: »
    Corruption in Africa is a way of life, from the bottom to the top of their society, all mineral and oil companies engage in it, as does anyone else who wants to do business in Africa.
    ........Unfortunate but true. Africa is by far the richest of the continents but the greed and stupidity of the rulers means that big business can exploit this to the maximum,
    case in point....Libya one of the richest countries in the world due to been isolated for the past 20 odd years, had in Gaddafi a leader who took no BS from USA/UK big business, in the space of 3 months their whole society destroyed replaced by a puppet government.

    seamus wrote: »
    Tullow Oil != Ireland. Any administration would know that.
    Couldn't be arsed reading stupid amounts of posts on p.ie, but thanks for the summary. Even the flowchart above is a bit confusing without context.
    If that is the case, then it is a serious issue. An indication that governments using tax money in the interests of big business isn't just something the US is at.
    Ah please...The Irish gov contribution is not even worth considering and is just a drop in the ocean....the CIA are up to their ears with shell companies left right and center buying government, people, companies off to further their own gain.
    In fact many cia agents once retired become free lance operators buying and selling oil & gas and can make more in one day than they would make in two lifetimes working for the government.


  • #53
    Jumpy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭Jumpy


    4leto wrote: »
    But the truth is if Tullow didn't engage in corruption in Uganda they simply would not get the rights.

    You simply have to, so although, yes it is wrong as any corruption is, it is necessary in that part of the world.

    Look at Shell's history in Nigeria.

    Whats good for the Ugoose ...


  • #54
    Cork boy 55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Cork boy 55


    There is a "old" thread on Uganda FF and Tullow OIl on boards as well as on politics.ie here is the link its in the economy section

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055956308&page=3


  • #55
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Pride Fighter wrote: »
    This does not surprise me. In capitalism the nice guys never win.
    but unlike socialism , atleast somebody wins


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