Tullow Oil - Holy F***

geeky

Just spotted this story online - basically, a Ugandan MP has claimed that Tulow bribed several ministers in the country. National newspapers aren't covering it - fancy that.

Ugandan Ministers Took Bribes From Tullow, Claims MP
MP presented documents he claims are proof of corruption.

Ugandan Prime Minister Amama Mbabazi and two senior ministers accepted bribes from an oil company, one of the country’s MPs has claimed in parliament. Gerald Karuhanga said that the Prime Minister, Foreign Affairs Minister and Internal Affairs Minister had received bribes from British-based Tullow Oil, and presented a document entitled Brief on Uganda’s Oil Deals to back up his accusations. He added that he intends to present parliament with a motion to establish a committee to investigate bribery in the oil industry.
continues...

http://www.investoronline.ie/equities/ugandan-ministers-took-bribes-from-tullow-claims-mp/

Isn't it a little disconcerting that the broadsheets here haven't touched this? An Irish-born company accused of serious wrongdoing. I remember when Tullow came up in the wikileaks cables, nobody in the mainstream press said boo either. Should we care that Irish companies are accused of this stuff?

Joey the lips

I will give this a couple of days to effect tullows share value then i will buy buy buy.....


Tullow have found a fair few propects recently....

godscop

Where is Tullow ?

MidlandsM

an oil company bribing government officals, who'd have thought it ehhhhhhhhhhhh?

stephen_k

What!!! Someone in Africa accepted bribes... I've heard it all now...

Pride Fighter

godscop wrote: »

Where is Tullow ?

Co Carlow.

Tullow oil, is I believe the second largest company listed on the ISEQ, (I think CRH is first). Both of them are absolute slime, CRH provides concrete to Israel to build walls to separate Palestinians from Israelis and Tullow does the likes of this.

This does not surprise me. In capitalism the nice guys never win.

Carter P Fly

Uganda is so corrupt nothing about bribery is newsworthy. You might as well be reporting about e-mail fishing scams for the, YAWN, billionth time

_blank_

Pride Fighter wrote: »

CRH provides concrete to Israel to build walls to separate Palestinians from Israelis

Provides, or sells?

You make it sound like CRH is run by Crazy Zionists there, which is not the case.

If I was in business and selling a product, should I vet my customers to see what they are using my product for?

Weird.

fontanalis

They should have sent them to get the oil of Mayo.

dilallio

That Ugandan MP is only peeed off cos he didn't get his cut.

Pride Fighter

Des wrote: »

Provides, or sells?

You make it sound like CRH is run by Crazy Zionists there, which is not the case.

If I was in business and selling a product, should I vet my customers to see what they are using my product for?

Weird.

Any exchange of goods or services to Apartheid Israel is equivalent to breaking the embargo placed on South Africa in the 80's.

In short CRH are operating for a quick buck rather than for the benefit of humanity.

Chuck Stone

S'all in the game yo.

geeky

Chuck Stone wrote: »

S'all in the game yo.

Lols.

I know I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm not exactly comfortable with Irish companies going around acting like that. And I'm really not comfortable with the fact that it isn't being reported!

Gummy Panda

geeky wrote: »

Chuck Stone wrote: »

S'all in the game yo.

Lols.

I know I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm not exactly comfortable with Irish companies going around acting like that. And I'm really not comfortable with the fact that it isn't being reported!

How come they say it's a British company?

mayo.mick

Have a look through all of this thread;

http://www.politics.ie/forum/foreign-affairs/135015-fianna-fail-tullow-oil-uganda.html?highlight=tullow

Go to page 15 gets interesting!!

mikemac

Gummy Panda wrote: »

How come they say it's a British company?

Setup in Ireland but they moved their HQ to London
And their main listing is London Stock Exchange

I'd say it's a British company too

pickarooney

I heard Sean O'Brien just needed a few extra hectalitres to fry a few batter burgers in.

Chuck Stone

Gummy Panda wrote: »

How come they say it's a British company?

Strategic location I reckon (London innit). Britiain still has considerable geopolitical clout (total guess though).

Paparazzo

mayo.mick wrote: »

Have a look through all of this thread;

http://www.politics.ie/forum/foreign-affairs/135015-fianna-fail-tullow-oil-uganda.html?highlight=tullow

Go to page 15 gets interesting!!

24 pages? Any chance of a tl;dr version?

geeky

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Strategic relocation reckon. Britiain still has considerable geopolitical clout (total guess though).

And investor cash handy.

_blank_

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Any exchange of goods or services to Apartheid Israel is equivalent to breaking the embargo placed on South Africa in the 80's. .

There's no embargo on Israel.

Pride Fighter wrote: »

In short CRH are operating for a quick buck rather than for the benefit of humanity.

So what?

What is wrong with that?

Why do you have a problem with business making a profit in the most profitable way they can?

geeky

Joey the lips wrote: »

I will give this a couple of days to effect tullows share value then i will buy buy buy.....


Tullow have found a fair few propects recently....

If they can hang on to them

@InvestorNewsIE
Ugandan lawmakers have moved to delay the #tullow deal after bribery allegations. http://bit.ly/nH6I0C.

Nice to see at least one country stand up for itself.

Blowfish

Paparazzo wrote: »

24 pages? Any chance of a tl;dr version?

Here.

4leto

geeky wrote: »

Just spotted this story online - basically, a Ugandan MP has claimed that Tulow bribed several ministers in the country. National newspapers aren't covering it - fancy that.



http://www.investoronline.ie/equities/ugandan-ministers-took-bribes-from-tullow-claims-mp/

Isn't it a little disconcerting that the broadsheets here haven't touched this? An Irish-born company accused of serious wrongdoing. I remember when Tullow came up in the wikileaks cables, nobody in the mainstream press said boo either. Should we care that Irish companies are accused of this stuff?

The newspapers are not covering the story because its a non story.

Corruption in Africa is a way of life, from the bottom to the top of their society, all mineral and oil companies engage in it, as does anyone else who wants to do business in Africa.

Its a shame it is like that, it is the bane of their society, it means they will be forever developing nations.

I think Ireland is cleaner now, but look at what corruption and cronyism has cost this country over the years.

Joey the lips

Hold on one minute.... Does this mean we should forget about canceling overseas aid.....

geeky

4leto wrote: »

The newspapers are not covering the story because its a non story.

Corruption in Africa is a way of life, from the bottom to the top of their society, all mineral and oil companies engage in it, as does anyone else who wants to do business in Africa.

Its a shame it is like that, it is the bane of their society, it means they will be forever developing nations.

I think Ireland is cleaner now, but look at what corruption and cronyism has cost this country over the years.

Whatever about corruption in Africa being a non-story (and I do think you're broadly right), it's still a company with an Irish heritage being accused of bribing officials internationally. I think it's a bit more significant than, say, some old FÁS hack winning an employment appeals tribunal claim.

4leto

geeky wrote: »

Whatever about corruption in Africa being a non-story (and I do think you're broadly right), it's still a company with an Irish heritage being accused of bribing officials internationally. I think it's a bit more significant than, say, some old FÁS hack winning an employment appeals tribunal claim.

But the truth is if Tullow didn't engage in corruption in Uganda they simply would not get the rights.

You simply have to, so although, yes it is wrong as any corruption is, it is necessary in that part of the world.

Look at Shell's history in Nigeria.

seamus

geeky wrote: »

it's still a company with an Irish heritage being accused of bribing officials internationally. I think it's a bit more significant than, say, some old FÁS hack winning an employment appeals tribunal claim.

I don't see why. It's a private Irish company acting in their best interests. I wouldn't condemn Tullow for this. If you're playing by the rules when there are no rules, then you're going to lose.

If corruption is a problem in Uguanda, then it's a problem for Uguanda. Until they sort that out, I've no problem with companies doing what they have to operate in that country.

Sir Oxman

Michael Martin. Ugandan aid. Tullow Oil. Contracts.

As someone else said, read that politics.ie thread.

Samba

Des wrote: »

If I was in business and selling a product, should I vet my customers to see what they are using my product for?

Weird.

It's a good job you're not in the Arms trade so

geeky

seamus wrote: »

I don't see why. It's a private Irish company acting in their best interests. I wouldn't condemn Tullow for this. If you're playing by the rules when there are no rules, then you're going to lose.

If corruption is a problem in Uguanda, then it's a problem for Uguanda. Until they sort that out, I've no problem with companies doing what they have to operate in that country.

Sorry but that doesn't wash for me at all. If the allegations are true:
- they're actively feeding a system that's keeping millions of people in poverty, and causing deaths
- they're causing reputational damage for Ireland - if and when a halfway-honest regime takes charge, are they really going to want to deal with the same country that robbed them blind? It's making it impossible for honest companies to operate.

Even leaving aside the notion that taxpayer money may have been used to sweeten the Uganda deal (see p.ie thread), it's morally bankrupt to say 'sure when in Rome', particularly for a country that's been plenty exploited in the not-too-distant past.

4leto

Then what would you have them do, to secure mineral/oil rights in these place is intensely competitive, would you rather Shell or BP get the rights, because believe me they would be in before you could blink an eye.

So what do you suggest.

Blowfish

4leto wrote: »

Then what would you have them do, to secure mineral/oil rights in these place is intensely competitive, would you rather Shell or BP get the rights, because believe me they would be in before you could blink an eye.

So what do you suggest.

The issue isn't really so much whether Tullow Oil on their own were right or wrong to do this, but more if it was the Irish foreign aid money which 'oiled the wheel' for these deals to go ahead.

mikemac

Well if we are going to give foreign aid we may as well get something back from it

Aid with strings attached

So maybe aid to some country and in return they'll commit to buying beef from us for example

geeky

4leto wrote: »

Then what would you have them do, to secure mineral/oil rights in these place is intensely competitive, would you rather Shell or BP get the rights, because believe me they would be in before you could blink an eye.

So what do you suggest.

I'd suggest that more countries should implement laws like America recently has, whereby national companies that break the law while trading abroad face sanctions at home.

I know people will give out that it's hard to implement and will cost companies money (it'll only cost them money if they break the law) but I'd rather a massive fight to see that become the norm than see everyone wash their hands as Western companies drive Africa back to the stone age, with the odd whip-round from Geldof and chums to make us all feel better.

Gmol

Hello Can you HelP mE
I Am UgAnDan MP who needs TO move a large GiFT to another country as I am beIng PersecutEd Please send me your bank details and sort cOde to share in my good fortune

4leto

Blowfish wrote: »

The issue isn't really so much whether Tullow Oil on their own were right or wrong to do this, but more if it was the Irish foreign aid money which 'oiled the wheel' for these deals to go ahead.

Ohhh that is different, one thing a company doing it with their profits but not us the tax payer.

seamus

geeky wrote: »

are they really going to want to deal with the same country that robbed them blind?

Tullow Oil != Ireland. Any administration would know that.

Even leaving aside the notion that taxpayer money may have been used to sweeten the Uganda deal (see p.ie thread)

Couldn't be arsed reading stupid amounts of posts on p.ie, but thanks for the summary. Even the flowchart above is a bit confusing without context.

If that is the case, then it is a serious issue. An indication that governments using tax money in the interests of big business isn't just something the US is at.

geeky

seamus wrote: »

Tullow Oil != Ireland. Any administration would know that.

It's not just about the administration or intelligentsia, it's the ordinary people that [hopefully] matter. If you don't think an Irish company engaging in rampant corruption will affect Ireland's reputation, you're kidding yourself.

The taxpayer thing (if true) is grotesque. But generally I have a problem with an Irish company lining the pockets of tin-pot presidents to rape Africa's natural resources and leave her people in grinding poverty.

UglyBolloxFace

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Co Carlow.

Tullow oil, is I believe the second largest company listed on the ISEQ, (I think CRH is first). Both of them are absolute slime, CRH provides concrete to Israel to build walls to separate Palestinians from Israelis and Tullow does the likes of this.

This does not surprise me. In capitalism the nice guys never win.

Sigh...I hate when posters do this. You know FULL well that that's the case, as you Googled it before you posted.

Why do people do this? Why not just say "Oh I googled it and found out that blah blah and such and such are in the following such and such"?

Really irritates me.

Spread

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Co Carlow.

Tullow oil, is I believe the second largest company listed on the ISEQ, (I think CRH is first). Both of them are absolute slime, CRH provides concrete to Israel to build walls to separate Palestinians from Israelis and Tullow does the likes of this.

This does not surprise me. In capitalism the nice guys never win.

How did you ever become a mod? Get real and live in the real world. Backsheesh is business in Africa. No backsheesh, no business. You've got a mischief maker in Uganda throwing this about for non-transparent reasons. If you owned a paper shop would you refuse to sell papers/mags/cigs to the local scumbags? So wise up and take an adult view on this.

Today's WSJ:



By NICHOLAS BARIYO

KAMPALA Uganda—U.K.-based Tullow Oil PLC, which operates three oil blocks in Uganda's oil-rich Lake Albertine Rift, Tuesday denied allegations that it paid several Ugandan officials to sway key decisions regarding its licenses in the country, officials said Tuesday.
In a letter addressed to the parliamentary speaker, Tullow Oil Chief Executive Aidan Heavey said the company "rejects the outrageous and defamatory accusations of corruption" made against it in the Ugandan Parliament during the debate Monday evening.
The Ugandan prime minister, Amama Mbabazi, one of the government officials being accused of bribery, read the letter on the floor of parliament during an emergency session to discuss oil issues in the country.
"Tullow will examine all possible legal action to protect the reputations of the company and its employees," Tullow stated in the letter, which was seen by The Wall Street Journal.
The letter was responding to allegations of Gerald Karuhanga, a lawmaker who presented a number of documents in the house Monday, accusing Tullow of wiring millions of dollars of money to the accounts of several government ministers ahead of Tullow's purchase of Heritage Oil PLC stakes in the country and the subsequent sale of two thirds of its stakes in the three blocks to France's Total SA and China's CNOOC.
Lawmakers want the government to delay the approval of Tullow's $2.9 billion sale to Total and CNOOC until the graft allegations are probed.
Tullow had initially indicated that it would conclude the sale in September.
A debate over the matter is continuing in the Ugandan parliament.

K-9

geeky wrote: »

I'd suggest that more countries should implement laws like America recently has, whereby national companies that break the law while trading abroad face sanctions at home.

I know people will give out that it's hard to implement and will cost companies money (it'll only cost them money if they break the law) but I'd rather a massive fight to see that become the norm than see everyone wash their hands as Western companies drive Africa back to the stone age, with the odd whip-round from Geldof and chums to make us all feel better.

The Russians or Chinese will get in instead.

4leto

If it was Irish aid money used for bribery purposes, that is wrong, that is not what we expect this taxpayers money to be used for.

But it would be naive to think that countries do not aid their nations companies. They do and so does the Americans.

But the OP is right, if by some freak of nature bribery was wiped out in Africa so would a lot of its poverty.

Depressing as this is, I guarantee this oil find in Uganda will not benefit the people of that country in any significant way. The revenue will be pissed away on corruption and probably arms.

geeky

Spread wrote: »

How did you ever become a mod? Get real and live in the real world. Backsheesh is business in Africa. No backsheesh, no business. You've got a mischief maker in Uganda throwing this about for non-transparent reasons. If you owned a paper shop would you refuse to sell papers/mags/cigs to the local scumbags? So wise up and take an adult view on this.

Since the previous poster hasn't commented...

'Refusing to sell scumbags newspapers' is an absurd analogy. 'Not encouraging scumbags to rob their peers/family to buy newspapers/ciggies/booze/arms' would be a more accurate one.

Tullow is accused of lining politicians' pockets so it can take Uganda's oil for less than it's worth, thus keeping millions of people in grinding poverty, and leading to thousands of early deaths. That's a whole lot worse than being a 'local scumbag', quite frankly.

It's funny how an 'adult view' always tends to suit people/organisations with money who want a license to exploit others.

Pride Fighter

geeky wrote: »

Since the previous poster hasn't commented...

'Refusing to sell scumbags newspapers' is an absurd analogy. 'Not encouraging scumbags to rob their peers/family to buy newspapers/ciggies/booze/arms' would be a more accurate one.

Tullow is accused of lining politicians' pockets so it can take Uganda's oil for less than it's worth, thus keeping millions of people in grinding poverty, and leading to thousands of early deaths. That's a whole lot worse than being a 'local scumbag', quite frankly.

It's funny how an 'adult view' always tends to suit people/organisations with money who want a license to exploit others.

I did not feel a need to comment. But I agree with what you say. Also it is grown up to boycott due to humanitarian grounds in response to the person you quoted, fair trade, ethics and good produce. They do matter. Also where it is made is hugely important. I do not buy Israeli goods at all and would encourage everyone to follow the international BDS campaign like I do. Apartheid must end there, and hopefully it will.

Spread

Business is business and honesty is honesty. Whether its a football player diving, an editor hypeing up some story, a farmer puffing up a cow at a fair, an impressario promising the world, a religion selling salvation, a salesman flogging you a car, you trying to sell your house or a businessman trying to get a better margin .............. 'tis what makes the world go around. Competition is the great catalyst for improvement. And so, greasing palms is part and parcel of business in lots of parts of the world.
What if the government, like Amin's in the late 60s, nationalised Tullow. Would you feel sorry for Tullow's shareholders? Tell me one country in Africa in which the lives of the inhabitants improved radically because of business ethics.
Have you ever bribed your child? Given a PC answer when it was not your real thought? Done something to gain an edge over an opponent? As a salesman, would it be right to install a neon advertising sign and a retractable awning for free ....... just to gain more shelf space from a shopkeeper? Or paying a hefty premium for a better shelving situation from a bookshop owner? These are the facts of life.
Utopian society etc is the stuff of fantasy. Children are taught right from wrong but when they enter the real world they see that it is dog eat dog. If the world was full of Mother Theresas .......... all doing good things and not creating wealth, where do you think we'd be? I know what I think ........ down the Swanee.

geeky

Spread wrote: »

Business is business and honesty is honesty. Whether its a football player diving, an editor hypeing up some story, a farmer puffing up a cow at a fair, an impressario promising the world, a religion selling salvation, a salesman flogging you a car, you trying to sell your house or a businessman trying to get a better margin .............. 'tis what makes the world go around. Competition is the great catalyst for improvement. And so, greasing palms is part and parcel of business in lots of parts of the world.
What if the government, like Amin's in the late 60s, nationalised Tullow. Would you feel sorry for Tullow's shareholders? Tell me one country in Africa in which the lives of the inhabitants improved radically because of business ethics.
Have you ever bribed your child? Given a PC answer when it was not your real thought? Done something to gain an edge over an opponent? As a salesman, would it be right to install a neon advertising sign and a retractable awning for free ....... just to gain more shelf space from a shopkeeper? Or paying a hefty premium for a better shelving situation from a bookshop owner? These are the facts of life.
Utopian society etc is the stuff of fantasy. Children are taught right from wrong but when they enter the real world they see that it is dog eat dog. If the world was full of Mother Theresas .......... all doing good things and not creating wealth, where do you think we'd be? I know what I think ........ down the Swanee.

Ok, if you're preaching a doctrine of moral nihilism, I can see why you don't have a problem with paying off politicians to get a better deal on oil that could have lifted millions of Ugandans out of poverty.

But don't compare it to trying to get a good price for your house, giving PC answers or 'bribing your child', because that's just stupid.

galwayrush

I want to buy Tullow Oil Shares, all i have in exchange is 1000 euro and an old lap top... 5 million shares seems about right...:D

flash1080

SELL!!! SELL!!! SELL!!! :pac:

Latest on this:

http://allafrica.com/stories/201110110573.html

Uganda: Top Ministers Took Bribes From Tullow Oil - Parliament Told

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0203/tullow-business.html

Green light for Tullow Uganda deals

Synopsis - Tullow oil want oil contract in Uganda.
Irish minister at the time Michael Martin flies there to hang out with the Ugandan government
Michael Martin announces and increase in Aid to Uganda.
Sometime later Uganda buts half a dozen top of the range fighter jets from Russia (basically using our money)
Tullow oil gets contracts.
Some disputes - toos and fros- about contracts and the Ugandan government repossess an oil field and later Tullow Oil get more deals.

More recently Tullow Oil is accused of bribing the Ugandan government.
Last week Tullow oil get approved for more deals.

Irish aid to countries like this should be cut by 100%
Michael Martin should be hung drawn and quartered for giving our money away to people to buy weapons from the Russians or anyone for that matter.

shedweller

I think we can rule out moral obligations when it comes to ugandan aid. So the question is why are we sending them aid? Or rather, why are our elected officials sending aid on our behalf, to a country that has way more wealth than we do? Why?