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MORE ON THE RTE MINIMUX IN NORTHERN IRELAND

  • 02-02-2012 10:05AM
    #1
    mrdtv2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 556 ✭✭✭


    From ukfree.tv:


    Northern Ireland "mini multiplex" (NIMM)
    I have added information to the UK Free TV database to cover the so-called mini-multiplex that will carry three Irish channels, TG4, RTE1 and RTE2 in a very special multiplex from three transmitters in Northern Ireland.

    Published on 1st February 2012 at 20:37 by Brian Butterworth
    A special service for 80%-90% of households in Northern Ireland will see three Freeview additional channels being available. These will be:

    TG4 - Irish language television channel - Teilifis Gaeilge
    RTÉ Television: RTÉ One
    RTÉ Television: RTÉ Two (in HD on Saorview)


    Some homes will be able to receive the services directly from the Saorview transmitters in the RoI (see SAORVIEW - Ireland's free digital television service ), and others will, from the digital switchover date of Wednesday 24th October 2012, have a service provided from three Freeview transmitters in Northern Ireland.

    Brougher Mountain at 2kW on C36
    Black Mountain at 1kW on unknown channel
    Carnmoney Hill 16w on unknown channel




    However, you will not be able to view these services using a standard-definition Freeview receiver - a Freeview HD box or set will be required. It is not known at this time if the NIMM will carry RTE2 in HD, as per the Saorview service. TG4 and RTE1 are broadcast in standard definition at the moment.

    The requirement for a Freeview HD receiver is because the services are being broadcasting in "D-Book Option 11", which uses the DVB-T2 standard ("a new mode, option 11, is being planned for a multiplex in Northern Ireland. Receivers should be able to switch between these automatically", D-Book 7, DTG164 is defined in appendix G as: FFT size 32k, 16QAM modulation, 1/128 guard interval, PP7, FEC 64800). Digital Television - Technical guidance on the availability of TG4 in Northern Ireland after digital switchover says that Option 11 is: DVB-T2 16QAM FEC 1/2.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,493 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    mrdtv2010 wrote: »
    From ukfree.tv:

    ...

    It is not known at this time if the NIMM will carry RTE2 in HD, as per the Saorview service. TG4 and RTE1 are broadcast in standard definition at the moment.

    It is known that RTÉ2 and the other services will be broadcast in SD only on the mini-mux.
    mrdtv2010 wrote: »
    From ukfree.tv:

    Brougher Mountain at 2kW on C36
    Black Mountain at 1kW on unknown channel
    Carnmoney Hill 16w on unknown channel

    Haven't seen any official confirmation that C36 will be used at Brougher Mt, I wonder if it's just speculation.


  • #3
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,169 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    Big question for sports lovers - will some sports be 'blacked out' on RTE 2 the way they are on satellite to viewers here in NI?


  • #4
    mrdtv2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 556 ✭✭✭mrdtv2010


    Sometimes he is very accurate but E36 is one of the 600Mhz auction frequencies in the UK, so we'll see. Its a good start and no doubt he will update it. I am surprised they haven't disclosed the frequencies yet given that they are internationally coordinated already. The DVB-T2 mode chosen will give very good coverage even with the low ERPs.


  • #5
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,493 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    Big question for sports lovers - will some sports be 'blacked out' on RTE 2 the way they are on satellite to viewers here in NI?

    Saorview:Brian may be able to answer that question over in his thread.


  • #6
    Rick_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭Rick_


    The ukfreetv website is quite well known for it's lies and speculation being posted as fact. I wouldn't believe anything you read on there until you see it confirmed by an official source.


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  • #7
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,460 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The issue on Sky is that it's too easy for someone in London to Ring Sky and claim they now live in Nothern Ireland. If sport wasn't blacked out the incentive for Irish and NI cards in mainland UK would be much higher. This is the huge flaw in ANY card rather than transmission limited service.

    About 55% will get RTE , TG4 and TV3 from mix of mainly Clermont Carn and Holyhill which dramatically increase power into N.I. after ASO. There will also be some reception in N.I. from Monaghan, Truskmore, Cairn Hill (Longford) and some other Donegal sites in Northern edge and southern part of the county.

    So I think it's less likely.

    Also almost all, or perhaps all of N.I. will be able to get Saorsat. That can't have RTE sport blacked out. Ballycastle area is the worst signal.


  • #8
    Souriau
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    Does anyone known the transmission power for this RTE Mini-Mux?


  • #9
    Peter Rhea
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭Peter Rhea


    It's mentioned in the OP of this thread & also here over 2 months ago.

    Transmission power is only part of the story; the transmission mode & code rate used should make the signal very robust.

    There's nothing new in this thread apart from speculation on the channel to be used at Brougher Mtn.


  • #10
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,493 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The latest information from Ofcom regarding Ch36 is that it's planned as a single nationwide SFN from 78 of 80 sites excluding Brougher Mt and Limavady due to its proximity to the Republic of Ireland.
    In parallel, a Layer 9 plan based on the use of just channel 36 was devised using 78 of the 80 primary sites. The sites at Limavady and Brougher Mountain, in Northern Ireland, were excluded because of their proximity to the land border with the Republic of Ireland.


  • #11
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,169 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    watty wrote: »
    The issue on Sky is that it's too easy for someone in London to Ring Sky and claim they now live in Nothern Ireland. If sport wasn't blacked out the incentive for Irish and NI cards in mainland UK would be much higher. This is the huge flaw in ANY card rather than transmission limited service.

    About 55% will get RTE , TG4 and TV3 from mix of mainly Clermont Carn and Holyhill which dramatically increase power into N.I. after ASO. There will also be some reception in N.I. from Monaghan, Truskmore, Cairn Hill (Longford) and some other Donegal sites in Northern edge and southern part of the county.

    So I think it's less likely.

    Also almost all, or perhaps all of N.I. will be able to get Saorsat. That can't have RTE sport blacked out. Ballycastle area is the worst signal.

    Thanks for that. Ballycastle is indeed a black spot being in a 'bowl' as it were. I think there was a temporary deflector providing RTE to the town some years ago but this was soon shut down. AFAIK the town of Larne is also a black spot and Whitehead just down the coast suffers from analogue co-channel problems from Clermont Carn due to local relay which can also affect viewers across the lough in Bangor who want to watch RTE from CC.


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  • #12
    ardmacha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    AFAIK the town of Larne is also a black spot

    In more ways than one.


  • #13
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    RTE will have black spots down south where Infill Transmission will be required seeing as Saorsat won't work, eg Leenane Valley in Galway. The Infills could be Saorsat fed. They should order another mini infill for Ballycastle while they are at it. :)


  • #14
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    ardmacha wrote: »
    In more ways than one.

    We might keep the discussion to television please - comments like this have NO place on this forum.


  • #15
    Ronnie Raygun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Ronnie Raygun


    Nothing to do with skin colour ...


  • #16
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Brougher Mountain seems a strange choice as opposed to Limavady (Could be wrong but Im guessing most people in the Borougher Service area would have reasonably good reception of ar least one RoI TX :confused: ) on the other hand maybe there are frequency availability issues at Limavady ?

    Surely Saorsat is still an option in places like Larne and Ballycastle ?


  • #17
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,493 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Brougher Mountain seems a strange choice as opposed to Limavady (Could be wrong but Im guessing most people in the Borougher Service area would have reasonably good reception of ar least one RoI TX :confused: ) on the other hand maybe there are frequency availability issues at Limavady ?

    Limavady was originally one of the sites planned using Ch48 (20kW) but no longer required according to an Ofcom document - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75595269


  • #18
    lawhec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Brougher Mountain seems a strange choice as opposed to Limavady (Could be wrong but Im guessing most people in the Borougher Service area would have reasonably good reception of ar least one RoI TX :confused: )
    RTÉNL's Saorview coverage map shows some significant holes in coverage in Omagh and Enniskillen which would make up a fair portion of Brougher's service area, so that's probably the reason.
    If the mini-mux is transmitted with a 2kW ERP from Brougher with the transmission mode described, then if all other things being equal the coverage area of this mini-mux should be equal to the planned 20kW PSB muxs on the same site, if not slightly better.


  • #19
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,169 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    Ronnie Raygun wrote: »
    Nothing to do with skin colour ...

    I lived in Larne town for 5 years and main problem was TV reception. We arrived with a 625 line set from Belfast in 1973 and from getting 3 crystal clear channels we ended up with just BBC2 which was relayed then from local transmitter. Remember trying to watch Wimbledon through the snow on BBC1! After a number of aerial checks we had to finally invest in a dual standard set to get decent BBC1 and UTV 405 line from Black Mountain. AFAIK the full transition to 625 lines for the town didn't come until late 1970's. Pretty sure Freeview is still difficult to receive for many in the town today. Interestingly there are very few aerials pointing towards Scotland in Larne.


  • #20
    Mr. Rabbit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Mr. Rabbit


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    I lived in Larne town for 5 years and main problem was TV reception. We arrived with a 625 line set from Belfast in 1973 and from getting 3 crystal clear channels we ended up with just BBC2 which was relayed then from local transmitter. Remember trying to watch Wimbledon through the snow on BBC1! After a number of aerial checks we had to finally invest in a dual standard set to get decent BBC1 and UTV 405 line from Black Mountain. AFAIK the full transition to 625 lines for the town didn't come until late 1970's. Pretty sure Freeview is still difficult to receive for many in the town today. Interestingly there are very few aerials pointing towards Scotland in Larne.

    TV reception in Larne should be fine post DSO, although the transmitter at Craigy Hill will be Freeview Lite.

    From what I can gather, some higher areas of the town can receive Freeview from Divis, even now,. Millbrook and the parts of Inver for example.


  • #21
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,482 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    icdg wrote: »
    We might keep the racism away from this forum, please.

    "black Protestant"s are generally Caucasian...


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  • #22
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,169 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    Mr. Rabbit wrote: »
    TV reception in Larne should be fine post DSO, although the transmitter at Craigy Hill will be Freeview Lite.

    From what I can gather, some higher areas of the town can receive Freeview from Divis, even now,. Millbrook and the parts of Inver for example.

    You're absolutely right - those on higher ground e.g. Craigy Hill get excellent reception from Belfast and Millbrook would be similar. By Inver if you mean near the football ground it might be a bit hit and miss. Unfortunately when I lived in Larne I lived beside the bowling green on the coast road and reception from Divis was poor. Nowadays with Sky/Freesat etc reception issues are not as important as in those pre- satellite days.


  • #23
    Mr. Rabbit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Mr. Rabbit


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    You're absolutely right - those on higher ground e.g. Craigy Hill get excellent reception from Belfast and Millbrook would be similar. By Inver if you mean near the football ground it might be a bit hit and miss. Unfortunately when I lived in Larne I lived beside the bowling green on the coast road and reception from Divis was poor. Nowadays with Sky/Freesat etc reception issues are not as important as in those pre- satellite days.

    Was thinking of the higher parts of Inver digifriendly, but you are right. Divis is probably hopeless in the middle of the town at sea level.

    Not sure how good Darvel is (now that they've switched and increased power), but it's the only way people can get terrestrial digital TV further up the coast (i,e, Ballygally, Drain's Bay etc.) or so I've been told. Divis should also be much better post DSO.

    I worked in Premier Power (Ballylumford) for 13 years and I'm now involved with the community radio project (Chaine FM) where I do a bit of presenting, so I'm quite familiar with the town.


  • #24
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    I don't care what the basis of the comment was. It has no place on this forum and there will be a five-day ban for the next person who talks about something other than television in this thread. And the thread will be closed.


  • #25
    Mr. Rabbit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Mr. Rabbit


    Surely Saorsat is still an option in places like Larne and Ballycastle ?

    Are there currently any Stellite installers in the province geared up for Saorsat ? I would suspect not and I would think very few would be au fait with the technical issues involved i.e. LNB F's, spot beams, diseqc switches etc.

    I still say it's a pity a limited service isn't available on Freesat for NI viewers, but I know suggesting that will start some on this forum going on and on about rights issues etc.

    I suspect that most viewers in the province that don't have access to either Saorview or the NI mini mux will simply put up with the Sky subscription service. Saorsat wil probably be more hassle than it's worth for most people up here.


  • #26
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,493 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Mr. Rabbit wrote: »
    I still say it's a pity a limited service isn't available on Freesat for NI viewers, but I know suggesting that will start some on this forum going on and on about rights issues etc.

    Peter, no point repeating all that again ;)

    Can I suggest you post the question to RTÉNL's Saorview:Brian over in his thread eventhough you already know their reasoning on this via RTÉ's Conor Hayes's discussion with the Oireachtas Communications Committee in July 2010.


  • #27
    Mr. Rabbit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Mr. Rabbit


    The Cush wrote: »
    Peter, no point repeating all that again ;)

    Can I suggest you post the question to RTÉNL's Saorview:Brian over in his thread eventhough you already know their reasoning on this via RTÉ's Conor Hayes's discussion with the Oireachtas Communications Committee in July 2010.

    I know cush. It's just a pity Freesat isn't an option.

    Looking at houses around here, at least 90% have satellite dishes. I'd imagine most are probably for Sky so places such as Larne and Ballycastle will probably view RTE that way, and simply not bother with the hassle of Saorsat if they've no access to either Saorview or the mini mux.


  • #28
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mr. Rabbit wrote: »
    I know cush. It's just a pity Freesat isn't an option.

    Looking at houses around here, at least 90% have satellite dishes. I'd imagine most are probably for Sky so places such as Larne and Ballycastle will probably view RTE that way, and simply not bother with the hassle of Saorsat if they've no access to either Saorview or the mini mux.


    More importantly, will anyone tell them about Saorsat? If you don't know, you cannot go!


  • #29
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,460 ✭✭✭✭watty


    How many people want RTE or TG4?
    Only one of my relatives is interested. The rest are not interested and don't listen RTE Radio or watch RTE1 TV on Sky (They all have Sky). The "interested" relative gets the Irish channels via Virgin Media Cable.


  • #30
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,169 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    watty wrote: »
    How many people want RTE or TG4?
    Only one of my relatives is interested. The rest are not interested and don't listen RTE Radio or watch RTE1 TV on Sky (They all have Sky). The "interested" relative gets the Irish channels via Virgin Media Cable.

    If you're a sports fan esp. rugby like me both RTE and TG4 are an important addition to UK channels. As regards TV3 well that's another matter altogether.


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  • #31
    Mr. Rabbit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Mr. Rabbit


    watty wrote: »
    How many people want RTE or TG4?
    Only one of my relatives is interested. The rest are not interested and don't listen RTE Radio or watch RTE1 TV on Sky (They all have Sky). The "interested" relative gets the Irish channels via Virgin Media Cable.

    Then why are RTE and the Irish government so concerned with the rest of the UK and Europe watching it, and all those expensive rights issues ?

    You've just proved my point.

    Why waste €70 million on Saorsat ?


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