Where did pop lose its way?

Mammanabammana · 02-02-2012 04:25AM #1

So. Could somebody look at this video and tell me how pop went so wrong? Here we have Queen, U2, Sting, David Bowie, Paul McCartney, The Who, Big Country, Howard Jones, Elton John, George Michael, the list goes on and on, all on the same stage...even the weaker of them were great acts in their day...and now we have X factor Christmas ads, 15 year olds being exploited (Justin Bieber? Seriously?) and Lady Gaga with her posturing. What the fuck happened? Where did all the great artists go?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stNGHiscETo

FearDark · 02-02-2012 04:25AM

x factor and the scum of the earth that buy into it.

Mr Trade In · 02-02-2012 04:28AM

Irish and English fcuks like Louis and Simon. Also Bono, yeah lets blame that cnut again.

Mammanabammana · 02-02-2012 04:30AM

But for God's sake, that's the whole point. I have no doubt that there are people out there that are still capable of being great acts...so why do we end up with recycled pop and cover songs over and over and over?

Mammanabammana · 02-02-2012 04:31AM

Mr Trade In wrote: »

Irish and English fcuks like Louis and Simon. Also Bono, yeah lets blame that cnut again.

No point blaming him on a day that showed that he really knew his shit at one point!

Revolution9 · 02-02-2012 04:33AM

FearDark wrote: »

x factor and the scum of the earth that buy into it.

Yep, all those Jedward loving 13-year-old girls should be locked up with murderers and rapists.

TanG411 · 02-02-2012 04:37AM

Music industry looking for quick cash by churning out the same recycled stuff. They know what the majority will pay for.

EdenHazard · 02-02-2012 04:38AM

Better than the song you posted op and a cameo by the man himself at the end

Listen to Drakes rap, I dont even like him but his lyrics are so meaningful in this song. Unreal song and much better than that live earth song or whatever its called

Guill · 02-02-2012 04:44AM

Pop has lost it's way because of globalisation.

Where before artist had to build a fan base , release album, tour small club etc until they hit the big time, now they are expected to be immediatly famous, the first solo album must be a hit etc. Tv and Internet has ruined pop not just the shows on them.

There will be no more melting pots of creativity anymore like Greenwich Village, London, Topango canyon, LA etc. Now when you have a creative idea you do not find like minded people and share it with them and let it grow and become something different, you post it on youtube and let it get lost in Videos of lads getting kicked in the balls.

Guill · 02-02-2012 04:45AM

Mammanabammana wrote: »

But for God's sake, that's the whole point. I have no doubt that there are people out there that are still capable of being great acts...so why do we end up with recycled pop and cover songs over and over and over?

Yea capable of being great acts, but song one must be a hit or do not pass go.

NIMAN · 02-02-2012 04:49AM

Around the time of Stock, Aiken and Waterman.

Mammanabammana · 02-02-2012 04:52AM

Guill wrote: »

Yea capable of being great acts, but song one must be a hit or do not pass go.

That's part of it. They want the instant hit. U2 had four albums out before they cracked it, Sprinsgteen three, the Beatles didn't crack it until their fourth single, Bowie ffs had a 12 year career under his belt before he could truly be a called a global superstar in the early 80s...and on the other side of all that, how many one hit wonders have failed to live up on their promise?

EdenHazard · 02-02-2012 04:52AM

Guill wrote: »

Pop has lost it's way because of globalisation.

Where before artist had to build a fan base , release album, tour small club etc until they hit the big time, now they are expected to be immediatly famous, the first solo album must be a hit etc. Tv and Internet has ruined pop not just the shows on them.

There will be no more melting pots of creativity anymore like Greenwich Village, London, Topango canyon, LA etc. Now when you have a creative idea you do not find like minded people and share it with them and let it grow and become something different, you post it on youtube and let it get lost in Videos of lads getting kicked in the balls.

But the cream will rise to the top, people forget Justin Bieber built his own fanbase originally, he was just a kid posting vids on youtube for familiy, he became what he is today because people connected with him first, he had no Usher, no record producers, nothing.

Shield · 02-02-2012 04:55AM

I think pop lost its way around the time the likes of The Prodigy and The Chemical Brothers came onto the scene. It got a bit confused with the likes of 2 Unlimited but that was around the time Britney was manufactured and shoved down our throats with a lot of money behind it, so something new was badly needed.

The marketing and image(s) of Oasis and Blur during the 90s filled the massive void that U2 couldn't and that REM tried to, but there's no doubt that "pop", as in Video Killed The Radio Star goes, was killed off in the early 90s. I think M.A.R.R.S. signaled the start of a new sound that was a warning to music in general towards the end of the 80s, but I agree that resorting to manufacturing pop has killed off real talent, and stifled the "artist" in artistry.

Mammanabammana · 02-02-2012 04:55AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Around the time of Stock, Aiken and Waterman.

Ironically, with the benefit of hindsight (and to my personal total annoyance), SAW have turned out to have written some of the best pure pop songs of the era. It may have been formulaic and predictable but it was a bloody good formula!

Mammanabammana · 02-02-2012 04:57AM

EdenHazard wrote: »

But the cream will rise to the top, people forget Justin Bieber built his own fanbase originally, he was just a kid posting vids on youtube for familiy, he became what he is today because people connected with him first, he had no Usher, no record producers, nothing.

I never knew this. If this is actually true (not that I'm doubting you lol) then I have a lot more respect for the kid.

NIMAN · 02-02-2012 04:59AM

So who would be classed as 'the cream' in present music?

RHCP, Adele, Gaga, Foo Fighters, U2, Coldplay, Rihanna, Kings of Leon, Beyonce, Springsteen?

Still some fairly big names there, although admittedly a few are hardly new.

Jesus Wept · 02-02-2012 05:02AM

Mammanabammana wrote: »

So. Could somebody look at this video and tell me how pop went so wrong? Here we have Queen, U2, Sting, David Bowie, Paul McCartney, The Who, Big Country, Howard Jones, Elton John, George Michael, the list goes on and on, all on the same stage...even the weaker of them were great acts in their day...and now we have X factor Christmas ads, 15 year olds being exploited (Justin Bieber? Seriously?) and Lady Gaga with her posturing. What the fuck happened? Where did all the great artists go?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stNGHiscETo

You've identified the low point, that song.

Mammanabammana · 02-02-2012 05:04AM

NIMAN wrote: »

So who would be classed as 'the cream' in present music?

RHCP, Adele, Gaga, Foo Fighters, U2, Coldplay, Rihanna, Kings of Leon, Beyonce, Springsteen?

Still some fairly big names there, although admittedly a few are hardly new.

That's what I'm saying. Of those, nobody really stands out (and I think Florence and the Machine show huge promise, and possibly Mumford and sons if they can get it together and release another album!), and surely somebody should have risen above the likes of U2, Springsteen etc...like, who's gonna be filling Croke park in 10 years?

Guill · 02-02-2012 05:09AM

EdenHazard wrote: »

But the cream will rise to the top, people forget Justin Bieber built his own fanbase originally, he was just a kid posting vids on youtube for familiy, he became what he is today because people connected with him first, he had no Usher, no record producers, nothing.

TBH I don't get Justin Beiber, i know nothing about him but he could possibly be likened to Donny Osmond/The Osmands?? What you might call the far right extreme of pop music? teenie bop?

That's part of it. They want the instant hit. U2 had four albums out before they cracked it, Sprinsgteen three, the Beatles didn't crack it until their fourth single, Bowie ffs had a 12 year career under his belt before he could truly be a called a global superstar in the early 80s...and on the other side of all that, how many one hit wonders have failed to live up on their promise?

Many one hit wonders, i am not sure whether more than in the 60s, 70s, 80s 90s 00s. I would expect the rate of one hit wonders to trend up as the decades pass but couldn't proove it.

Edit: Nope, wrong...again...

Neil Young didn't hit the high tides till he joined CSN, this got his name out more than before and people started listening to his solo stuff too. Now he had a following before that but demanding his name on the billing got him the promotion he needed, the rest was up to him. So some promotion is neccesary but i wonder where Beiber wand the likes will be in 50 years time... Certainly not playing Glastonbury....I Hope....

Mammanabammana · 02-02-2012 05:15AM

The-Rigger wrote: »

You've identified the low point, that song.

I thought my point was clear that it wasn't about the song, it was about the performers. They could be singing "Baa baa black sheep" and my point would stay the same.

NIMAN · 02-02-2012 05:17AM

Mammanabammana wrote: »

who's gonna be filling Croke park in 10 years?

at a guess I'd say probably only the likes of RHCP, U2, Springsteen, Coldplay, the Stones, AC/DC etc.

Wait a minute ................. yeah see your point.

EdenHazard · 02-02-2012 05:22AM

Mammanabammana wrote: »

I never knew this. If this is actually true (not that I'm doubting you lol) then I have a lot more respect for the kid.

Yeah I think his mum set it up to share his singing with relatives, his youtube channel was called kidrauhl was set up like 5 years ago( to the day like 2 weeks ago) He's just a kid who got lucky, his views skyrocketed after a very short space of time so a year later he was signed I think. Some of his songs are cheesy, but not unbelievably cheesy(except for baby) you kinda feel they are deeper but mayb thats just cause I'm a fan.

NIMAN · 02-02-2012 05:33AM

The internet generation and their attitude to music has changed in a way that will affect music forever.

I used to love going to pubs to listen to live music. There are so few bands in pubs these days, cos pubs are dying.

People think if someone gets 100,000 hits on YouTube they must be talented.

They are obsessed with TV 'talent' shows, even though the winners invariably vanish without a trace or have average careers.

They don't buy music any more. They steal it off the internet. I used to love buying records and CDs, actually owning the music. Now people have tens of thousands of MP3 files on their PC and never listen to 99% of them.

I could rant on.......

Mammanabammana · 02-02-2012 05:41AM

EdenHazard wrote: »

Yeah I think his mum set it up to share his singing with relatives, his youtube channel was called kidrauhl was set up like 5 years ago( to the day like 2 weeks ago) He's just a kid who got lucky, his views skyrocketed after a very short space of time so a year later he was signed I think. Some of his songs are cheesy, but not unbelievably cheesy(except for baby) you kinda feel they are deeper but mayb thats just cause I'm a fan.

I gotta admit that I was not aware of all this, but fair enough...truth will out and maybe I should listen to some of his songs...it's not the sort of thing that would feature highly on my list of artists tbh but if he's gone the genuine route of talent outing rather than manufactured studio money making act, then respect.

Snowie · 02-02-2012 05:42AM

Ok so it didn't .....I was 90s kid and i defy any one posting in the forum to no have at least kissed a girl a bloke to any of the songs

at least....

Stone Roses

happy mondays

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TAS0WHWlOA

oasis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p29MG7wn4F8

blur:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDswiT87oo8

super grass

charlatans

Ocean Color Scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdnJbN5KEUg

Fun loven Criminals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHDYfoRYcqQ

The Verve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2vGa-yLiso

Pulp

but the most under rated album was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IUjtHf76wM

so boys and girls 3
things

1. give your nephews and neaces guitars and stuff
2. don't let them take them selves to seriously
3. be a responcinil auntie or uncle and teach them this there parents won't because they make too much noise...

lets start a music revulotion in 2020

ps i know i missed a ton of them out

Guill · 02-02-2012 05:43AM

Don't forget that we are (assuming you are like me, over 25) not the youth of today anymore. While i listen to Muse, Foo Fighters and the like, i don't buy merchandise and all their Cds and singles. What we see on Tv is aimed at the younger kids, they are the target market now, they buy more than we would.

Mammanabammana · 02-02-2012 05:43AM

NIMAN wrote: »

The internet generation and their attitude to music has changed in a way that will affect music forever.

I used to love going to pubs to listen to live music. There are so few bands in pubs these days, cos pubs are dying.

People think if someone gets 100,000 hits on YouTube they must be talented.

They are obsessed with TV 'talent' shows, even though the winners invariably vanish without a trace or have average careers.

They don't buy music any more. They steal it off the internet. I used to love buying records and CDs, actually owning the music. Now people have tens of thousands of MP3 files on their PC and never listen to 99% of them.

I could rant on.......

You know, I do believe creativity will find a way out. And if we're living in the middle of a transitional phase where new acts will find new ways to get their music out there that doesn't rely on the power wielders of record companies sitting in judgement on them, I don't think that's neccesarily a bad thing.

Mammanabammana · 02-02-2012 05:53AM

Guill wrote: »

Don't forget that we are (assuming you are like me, over 25) not the youth of today anymore. While i listen to Muse, Foo Fighters and the like, i don't buy merchandise and all their Cds and singles. What we see on Tv is aimed at the younger kids, they are the target market now, they buy more than we would.

Good point but I don't think this is just an "older person" rant (I am indeed over 25)...it just seems that something somewhere has lost it's way. Back in the day, Frankie goes to Hollywood were selling over 1 million copies of "Two tribes", "Relax" etc a WEEK to stay top of the charts. Those kind of figures are inconceivable now.

NIMAN · 02-02-2012 05:56AM

Guill wrote: »

Don't forget that we are (assuming you are like me, over 25) not the youth of today anymore. While i listen to Muse, Foo Fighters and the like, i don't buy merchandise and all their Cds and singles. What we see on Tv is aimed at the younger kids, they are the target market now, they buy more than we would.

For me this is right and wrong.

For the likes of the XFactor etc, we aren't the target market, but the likes of U2, Stones, AC/DC, Fleetwood Mac, Bon Jovi etc still gross huge amounts of money on their tours, as well as some of the newer acts.

We may be old but we have the disposable income.

Guill · 02-02-2012 06:00AM

Mammanabammana wrote: »

Good point but I don't think this is just an "older person" rant (I am indeed over 25)...it just seems that something somewhere has lost it's way. Back in the day, Frankie goes to Hollywood were selling over 1 million copies of "Two tribes", "Relax" etc a WEEK to stay top of the charts. Those kind of figures are inconceivable now.

Well pop by it's definition means the most popular, therefore if we think about it, it can't change it's way, regardless of sales.

And then, whether or not the music is better is subjective.

So pop music is fine. :mad: We are the problem...

Where did pop lose its way?

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