Where did pop lose its way?

Mammanabammana

So. Could somebody look at this video and tell me how pop went so wrong? Here we have Queen, U2, Sting, David Bowie, Paul McCartney, The Who, Big Country, Howard Jones, Elton John, George Michael, the list goes on and on, all on the same stage...even the weaker of them were great acts in their day...and now we have X factor Christmas ads, 15 year olds being exploited (Justin Bieber? Seriously?) and Lady Gaga with her posturing. What the fuck happened? Where did all the great artists go?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stNGHiscETo

FearDark

x factor and the scum of the earth that buy into it.

Mr Trade In

Irish and English fcuks like Louis and Simon. Also Bono, yeah lets blame that cnut again.

Mammanabammana

But for God's sake, that's the whole point. I have no doubt that there are people out there that are still capable of being great acts...so why do we end up with recycled pop and cover songs over and over and over?

Mammanabammana

Mr Trade In wrote: »

Irish and English fcuks like Louis and Simon. Also Bono, yeah lets blame that cnut again.

No point blaming him on a day that showed that he really knew his shit at one point!

Revolution9

FearDark wrote: »

x factor and the scum of the earth that buy into it.

Yep, all those Jedward loving 13-year-old girls should be locked up with murderers and rapists.

TanG411

Music industry looking for quick cash by churning out the same recycled stuff. They know what the majority will pay for.

EdenHazard

Better than the song you posted op and a cameo by the man himself at the end

Listen to Drakes rap, I dont even like him but his lyrics are so meaningful in this song. Unreal song and much better than that live earth song or whatever its called

Guill

Pop has lost it's way because of globalisation.

Where before artist had to build a fan base , release album, tour small club etc until they hit the big time, now they are expected to be immediatly famous, the first solo album must be a hit etc. Tv and Internet has ruined pop not just the shows on them.

There will be no more melting pots of creativity anymore like Greenwich Village, London, Topango canyon, LA etc. Now when you have a creative idea you do not find like minded people and share it with them and let it grow and become something different, you post it on youtube and let it get lost in Videos of lads getting kicked in the balls.

Guill

Mammanabammana wrote: »

But for God's sake, that's the whole point. I have no doubt that there are people out there that are still capable of being great acts...so why do we end up with recycled pop and cover songs over and over and over?

Yea capable of being great acts, but song one must be a hit or do not pass go.

NIMAN

Around the time of Stock, Aiken and Waterman.

Mammanabammana

Guill wrote: »

Yea capable of being great acts, but song one must be a hit or do not pass go.

That's part of it. They want the instant hit. U2 had four albums out before they cracked it, Sprinsgteen three, the Beatles didn't crack it until their fourth single, Bowie ffs had a 12 year career under his belt before he could truly be a called a global superstar in the early 80s...and on the other side of all that, how many one hit wonders have failed to live up on their promise?

EdenHazard

Guill wrote: »

Pop has lost it's way because of globalisation.

Where before artist had to build a fan base , release album, tour small club etc until they hit the big time, now they are expected to be immediatly famous, the first solo album must be a hit etc. Tv and Internet has ruined pop not just the shows on them.

There will be no more melting pots of creativity anymore like Greenwich Village, London, Topango canyon, LA etc. Now when you have a creative idea you do not find like minded people and share it with them and let it grow and become something different, you post it on youtube and let it get lost in Videos of lads getting kicked in the balls.

But the cream will rise to the top, people forget Justin Bieber built his own fanbase originally, he was just a kid posting vids on youtube for familiy, he became what he is today because people connected with him first, he had no Usher, no record producers, nothing.

Shield

I think pop lost its way around the time the likes of The Prodigy and The Chemical Brothers came onto the scene. It got a bit confused with the likes of 2 Unlimited but that was around the time Britney was manufactured and shoved down our throats with a lot of money behind it, so something new was badly needed.

The marketing and image(s) of Oasis and Blur during the 90s filled the massive void that U2 couldn't and that REM tried to, but there's no doubt that "pop", as in Video Killed The Radio Star goes, was killed off in the early 90s. I think M.A.R.R.S. signaled the start of a new sound that was a warning to music in general towards the end of the 80s, but I agree that resorting to manufacturing pop has killed off real talent, and stifled the "artist" in artistry.

Mammanabammana

NIMAN wrote: »

Around the time of Stock, Aiken and Waterman.

Ironically, with the benefit of hindsight (and to my personal total annoyance), SAW have turned out to have written some of the best pure pop songs of the era. It may have been formulaic and predictable but it was a bloody good formula!

Mammanabammana

EdenHazard wrote: »

But the cream will rise to the top, people forget Justin Bieber built his own fanbase originally, he was just a kid posting vids on youtube for familiy, he became what he is today because people connected with him first, he had no Usher, no record producers, nothing.

I never knew this. If this is actually true (not that I'm doubting you lol) then I have a lot more respect for the kid.

NIMAN

So who would be classed as 'the cream' in present music?

RHCP, Adele, Gaga, Foo Fighters, U2, Coldplay, Rihanna, Kings of Leon, Beyonce, Springsteen?

Still some fairly big names there, although admittedly a few are hardly new.

Jesus Wept

Mammanabammana wrote: »

So. Could somebody look at this video and tell me how pop went so wrong? Here we have Queen, U2, Sting, David Bowie, Paul McCartney, The Who, Big Country, Howard Jones, Elton John, George Michael, the list goes on and on, all on the same stage...even the weaker of them were great acts in their day...and now we have X factor Christmas ads, 15 year olds being exploited (Justin Bieber? Seriously?) and Lady Gaga with her posturing. What the fuck happened? Where did all the great artists go?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stNGHiscETo

You've identified the low point, that song.

Mammanabammana

NIMAN wrote: »

So who would be classed as 'the cream' in present music?

RHCP, Adele, Gaga, Foo Fighters, U2, Coldplay, Rihanna, Kings of Leon, Beyonce, Springsteen?

Still some fairly big names there, although admittedly a few are hardly new.

That's what I'm saying. Of those, nobody really stands out (and I think Florence and the Machine show huge promise, and possibly Mumford and sons if they can get it together and release another album!), and surely somebody should have risen above the likes of U2, Springsteen etc...like, who's gonna be filling Croke park in 10 years?

Guill

EdenHazard wrote: »

But the cream will rise to the top, people forget Justin Bieber built his own fanbase originally, he was just a kid posting vids on youtube for familiy, he became what he is today because people connected with him first, he had no Usher, no record producers, nothing.

TBH I don't get Justin Beiber, i know nothing about him but he could possibly be likened to Donny Osmond/The Osmands?? What you might call the far right extreme of pop music? teenie bop?

That's part of it. They want the instant hit. U2 had four albums out before they cracked it, Sprinsgteen three, the Beatles didn't crack it until their fourth single, Bowie ffs had a 12 year career under his belt before he could truly be a called a global superstar in the early 80s...and on the other side of all that, how many one hit wonders have failed to live up on their promise?

Many one hit wonders, i am not sure whether more than in the 60s, 70s, 80s 90s 00s. I would expect the rate of one hit wonders to trend up as the decades pass but couldn't proove it.


Edit: Nope, wrong...again...



Neil Young didn't hit the high tides till he joined CSN, this got his name out more than before and people started listening to his solo stuff too. Now he had a following before that but demanding his name on the billing got him the promotion he needed, the rest was up to him. So some promotion is neccesary but i wonder where Beiber wand the likes will be in 50 years time... Certainly not playing Glastonbury....I Hope....

Mammanabammana

The-Rigger wrote: »

You've identified the low point, that song.

I thought my point was clear that it wasn't about the song, it was about the performers. They could be singing "Baa baa black sheep" and my point would stay the same.

NIMAN

Mammanabammana wrote: »

who's gonna be filling Croke park in 10 years?

at a guess I'd say probably only the likes of RHCP, U2, Springsteen, Coldplay, the Stones, AC/DC etc.

Wait a minute ................. yeah see your point.

EdenHazard

Mammanabammana wrote: »

I never knew this. If this is actually true (not that I'm doubting you lol) then I have a lot more respect for the kid.

Yeah I think his mum set it up to share his singing with relatives, his youtube channel was called kidrauhl was set up like 5 years ago( to the day like 2 weeks ago) He's just a kid who got lucky, his views skyrocketed after a very short space of time so a year later he was signed I think. Some of his songs are cheesy, but not unbelievably cheesy(except for baby) you kinda feel they are deeper but mayb thats just cause I'm a fan.

NIMAN

The internet generation and their attitude to music has changed in a way that will affect music forever.

I used to love going to pubs to listen to live music. There are so few bands in pubs these days, cos pubs are dying.

People think if someone gets 100,000 hits on YouTube they must be talented.

They are obsessed with TV 'talent' shows, even though the winners invariably vanish without a trace or have average careers.

They don't buy music any more. They steal it off the internet. I used to love buying records and CDs, actually owning the music. Now people have tens of thousands of MP3 files on their PC and never listen to 99% of them.

I could rant on.......

Mammanabammana

EdenHazard wrote: »

Yeah I think his mum set it up to share his singing with relatives, his youtube channel was called kidrauhl was set up like 5 years ago( to the day like 2 weeks ago) He's just a kid who got lucky, his views skyrocketed after a very short space of time so a year later he was signed I think. Some of his songs are cheesy, but not unbelievably cheesy(except for baby) you kinda feel they are deeper but mayb thats just cause I'm a fan.

I gotta admit that I was not aware of all this, but fair enough...truth will out and maybe I should listen to some of his songs...it's not the sort of thing that would feature highly on my list of artists tbh but if he's gone the genuine route of talent outing rather than manufactured studio money making act, then respect.

Snowie

Ok so it didn't .....I was 90s kid and i defy any one posting in the forum to no have at least kissed a girl a bloke to any of the songs

at least....


Stone Roses

happy mondays

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TAS0WHWlOA

oasis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p29MG7wn4F8

blur:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDswiT87oo8

super grass

charlatans

Ocean Color Scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdnJbN5KEUg

Fun loven Criminals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHDYfoRYcqQ

The Verve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2vGa-yLiso

Pulp

but the most under rated album was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IUjtHf76wM

so boys and girls 3
things

1. give your nephews and neaces guitars and stuff
2. don't let them take them selves to seriously
3. be a responcinil auntie or uncle and teach them this there parents won't because they make too much noise...

lets start a music revulotion in 2020

ps i know i missed a ton of them out

Guill

Don't forget that we are (assuming you are like me, over 25) not the youth of today anymore. While i listen to Muse, Foo Fighters and the like, i don't buy merchandise and all their Cds and singles. What we see on Tv is aimed at the younger kids, they are the target market now, they buy more than we would.

Mammanabammana

NIMAN wrote: »

The internet generation and their attitude to music has changed in a way that will affect music forever.

I used to love going to pubs to listen to live music. There are so few bands in pubs these days, cos pubs are dying.

People think if someone gets 100,000 hits on YouTube they must be talented.

They are obsessed with TV 'talent' shows, even though the winners invariably vanish without a trace or have average careers.

They don't buy music any more. They steal it off the internet. I used to love buying records and CDs, actually owning the music. Now people have tens of thousands of MP3 files on their PC and never listen to 99% of them.

I could rant on.......

You know, I do believe creativity will find a way out. And if we're living in the middle of a transitional phase where new acts will find new ways to get their music out there that doesn't rely on the power wielders of record companies sitting in judgement on them, I don't think that's neccesarily a bad thing.

Mammanabammana

Guill wrote: »

Don't forget that we are (assuming you are like me, over 25) not the youth of today anymore. While i listen to Muse, Foo Fighters and the like, i don't buy merchandise and all their Cds and singles. What we see on Tv is aimed at the younger kids, they are the target market now, they buy more than we would.

Good point but I don't think this is just an "older person" rant (I am indeed over 25)...it just seems that something somewhere has lost it's way. Back in the day, Frankie goes to Hollywood were selling over 1 million copies of "Two tribes", "Relax" etc a WEEK to stay top of the charts. Those kind of figures are inconceivable now.

NIMAN

Guill wrote: »

Don't forget that we are (assuming you are like me, over 25) not the youth of today anymore. While i listen to Muse, Foo Fighters and the like, i don't buy merchandise and all their Cds and singles. What we see on Tv is aimed at the younger kids, they are the target market now, they buy more than we would.

For me this is right and wrong.

For the likes of the XFactor etc, we aren't the target market, but the likes of U2, Stones, AC/DC, Fleetwood Mac, Bon Jovi etc still gross huge amounts of money on their tours, as well as some of the newer acts.

We may be old but we have the disposable income.

Guill

Mammanabammana wrote: »

Good point but I don't think this is just an "older person" rant (I am indeed over 25)...it just seems that something somewhere has lost it's way. Back in the day, Frankie goes to Hollywood were selling over 1 million copies of "Two tribes", "Relax" etc a WEEK to stay top of the charts. Those kind of figures are inconceivable now.

Well pop by it's definition means the most popular, therefore if we think about it, it can't change it's way, regardless of sales.

And then, whether or not the music is better is subjective.

So pop music is fine. :mad: We are the problem...

Mammanabammana

NIMAN wrote: »

We may be old but we have the disposable income.

Here, who are you calling old?

Guill

NIMAN wrote: »

We may be old but we have the disposable income.

But we won't part with it for a quickly passing fad.

K-9

Stock, Aitken and Waterman. Getting actors from Neighbours like Kylie and Jason sold records, and Rick Astley. Rick was just another teen idol, I blame Kylie and Jason, Aussies as well., suits me.

Pop Idol and X Factor was just evolution after that.

Mammanabammana

Guill wrote: »

Well pop by it's definition means the most popular, therefore if we think about it, it can't change it's way, regardless of sales.

And then, whether or not the music is better is subjective.

So pop music is fine. :mad: We are the problem...

But we're not. And that's really my whole point. Pop music IS the problem. As a result of the same kind of self serving that has dragged our country to it's knees as opposed to visionaries that wanted new music by new bands that would actually mean something to their listeners.

NIMAN

Guill wrote: »

But we won't part with it for a quickly passing fad.

True.

I still listen to the old stuff, but of course rarely buy much from them as most aren;t that prolific when it comes to releasing new material - too busy touring and cashing in.

Of course the odd 'new' band/artists do get some of my cash. Likes of Kings of Leon, Seasick Steve, Black Keys, Little Barrie being examples.

But I do wonder what will I do for live shows when the likes of AC/DC, U2 etc get too old to crawl on stage. Perhaps live music in the future may not be stadium filling any more?

Mammanabammana

K-9 wrote: »

Stock, Aitken and Waterman. Getting actors from Neighbours like Kylie and Jason sold records, and Rick Astley. Rick was just another teen idol, I blame Kylie and Jason, Aussies as well., suits me.

Pop Idol and X Factor was just evolution after that.

I incline towards trusting the advancement of pop to the likes of Daft Punk, Skrillex, Trent Reznor etc who have made a clear agenda of returning to the late 80s for the sounds and techniques they use now, in a far more advanced version, 20 years later. Of course, that means that the likes of Lady gaga will have to be annihilated, but that's not a bad thing, given as she's responsible for some of the most uninteresting music ever written.

Guill

Mammanabammana wrote: »

But we're not. And that's really my whole point. Pop music IS the problem. As a result of the same kind of self serving that has dragged our country to it's knees as opposed to visionaries that wanted new music by new bands that would actually mean something to their listeners.

Pop music = popular music

If it's pop music lacking creativity then why is this music popular?
And who says it is not creative?

Rizzle Kicks new song is good imo.


It's all subjective.

Mammanabammana

Guill wrote: »

Pop music = popular music

If it's pop music lacking creativity then thats your problem the why is this music popular? Because of the people that buy it and/or the artist and/or the producers.

Because I think pop music no longer means popular music, it's about populism, and that means it's taken into control by men who seem to not have a clue what they're doing. Which is why it's likely that there are acts out there who are more deserving of being up there selling singles and touring than the controllers of the music media with their hidden agendas are allowing to get the chance.

K-9

Mammanabammana wrote: »

I incline towards trusting the advancement of pop to the likes of Daft Punk, Skrillex, Trent Reznor etc who have made a clear agenda of returning to the late 80s for the sounds and techniques they use now, in a far more advanced version, 20 years later. Of course, that means that the likes of Lady gaga will have to be annihilated, but that's not a bad thing, given as she's responsible for some of the most uninteresting music ever written.

Yeah, but they have something to return too 20 years later. You need the original to advance on.

In 20 years time somebody will be doing the same with Lady Gaga and thinking they are fantastic and the new in thing.

Still, Stock, Aitken and Waterman, that's the route source! End off!

Mammanabammana

K-9 wrote: »

Still, Stock, Aitken and Waterman, that's the route source! End off!

And the thing is, everyone knew that in the 80s and we couldn't do a damn thing to stop it!

LordSutch

Guill wrote: »

Pop has lost it's way because of globalisation.

Where before artist had to build a fan base , release album, tour small club etc until they hit the big time, now they are expected to be immediatly famous, the first solo album must be a hit etc. Tv and Internet has ruined pop not just the shows on them.

There will be no more melting pots of creativity anymore like Greenwich Village, London, Topango canyon, LA etc. Now when you have a creative idea you do not find like minded people and share it with them and let it grow and become something different, you post it on youtube and let it get lost in Videos of lads getting kicked in the balls.

Very good post that^ There are however a few good shoots of organically grown music groups/solo artists, and in a local context they usually end up on Later (Jools Holland's show), too many talents to list here. I am not necessarily talking 'Pop Music', but they're all out there touring & making good & interesting music, sadly much of their music and talent is usually drowned out in the media both at home (and on the global stage) by said X Factor type rubbish and the like.

Jet Black

I was going to post a similar topic here a while back but forgot about it. I had a look over the last couple of years of NOW cds and from 2007-08 onward, I would like only 2-3 songs, whereas before I would like at least half of the album.

Off the top of my head I would say I only like about 90% of music released now and its mostly from artists who have been established for about 5 years.

I thought I was going to be rocking forever forever forever forever.

Pace2008

EdenHazard wrote: »

But the cream will rise to the top,

Sorrey, maybe I'm taking you up wrong but this is nonsense in the context of modern pop music. The best artists out there at the moment aren't within an ass's roar of the charts. Really, do you think David Guetta is the best of what electronic music has to offer?

The J Stands for Jay

You all sound like your parents 20 years ago. Watch the old top of the pops that are being re-run, 90% of pop has always been sh!te. It's just people only remember the good stuff.

Mammanabammana

McGaggs wrote: »

You all sound like your parents 20 years ago. Watch the old top of the pops that are being re-run, 90% of pop has always been sh!te. It's just people only remember the good stuff.

It's always easier to just accept that the way things are now have never actually been better.

Guill

Mammanabammana wrote: »

It's always easier to just accept that the way things are now have never actually been better.

Again, you are being subjective.

Mammanabammana

Edit due to misintertrepetation of the word

Father Damo

Mammanabammana wrote: »

So. Could somebody look at this video and tell me how pop went so wrong? Here we have Queen, U2, Sting, David Bowie, Paul McCartney, The Who, Big Country, Howard Jones, Elton John, George Michael, the list goes on and on, all on the same stage...even the weaker of them were great acts in their day...and now we have X factor Christmas ads, 15 year olds being exploited (Justin Bieber? Seriously?) and Lady Gaga with her posturing. What the fuck happened? Where did all the great artists go?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stNGHiscETo

Queen were overrated cheese.

Mammanabammana

Yes, perhaps I am. But I still stand by everything I said in this thread. And I still fully believe that it's not the case, as a poster suggested earlier, that this is just a case of the older generation moaning about things being "not as good as they were". And I particularly can't just let this discussion settle at the simple suggestion that I'm sounding like my parents would have done years ago so therefore (as was, if I'm correct, implied) I should just get over it.