RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

The Soarsat is primarily for DTT backup and the people that can't get an Aerial signal. A combo is no use to them. There are other threads to discuss Combo boxes which are nothing to do with Saorsat.

80cm was standard size in Sky Analogue days.

watty wrote: »

1.1m to 1.4m is big
80cm isn't big

1.8m is "large"
3.6m is "giant" (A friend has one!)

My "multifeed" is 90 x 95 dish, but that's what I had for free.

Of course it's technically possible to make a Quad Tuner PVR. But the market isn't big enough for the cost.

You will get your simple Saorview combo soon though with at least Freesat EPG. But that's irrelevant to Saorsat thread.

Watty, you've caught my attention with this statement, are you saying that we will soon have a combo set top box available, which will have a Saorview tuner with 7 day epg and a satellite tuner with the Freesat 7 day epg on it ? Currently all combo boxes have 7 day for Saorview, but only now and next for satellite, so this is good news if I'm understanding you correctly ?

The Cush wrote: »

Combi Saorview/Saorsat boxes with now and next info for FTA satellite from Triax and Walker it appears - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76495022&postcount=44

Thanks The Cush, so no hope of a Saorview/Saorsat combi with 7 day epg for fta satellite, aka Freesat epg ?

MarkK wrote: »

Which boxes are fully compatible combos but have not been approved?

Triax do a good combo box model is: ST-HD 537 - it is dvb-s2 and dvb-t mpeg4 with mheg-5....it isnt a true freesat box (AKA a FTA HD box combo with a DDT mpeg4/mpeg5) id say tho due to the fact that it doesnt have the full freesat epg - only now and next but it supports red button and rtes current dtt version of aertel

It has:

- Full DTT EPG
- Now and Next EPG for 28.2
- HD - dvb-s2 and dvb-t
- PVR capibility as well if you attach a usb stick or external hard drive - ive to test this out as of yet
- digital mheg5 version for bbc and saorview - saorview digital loads alot faster than the bc red button verion (something i noted)

Only 3 flaws with this box though:

- It sometimes struggles to load page 3001 on the bbc red button
- It can freeze up occasionaly but all ye do is disconnect the power and reconnect it
- Now and next EPG only shows up when you select a sat channel - say you select bbc1 then it shows up for bbc1 and all the channels on that transponder and will remain until you reboot the box. As you go through different tp's they load up too and the epg comes together but still a pain in the ass overall thus limiting its pvr capibility unless you are recording from a saorview channel which has a full epg

This combo box looks like it is fully saorview compatible however im not sure if it is compatible with saorsat (EDIT - documentation stats C and Ku band - no Ka band mentioned) - my parents have only gotten this in the last month so ive to fully put it through its paces :P

Quick question by the way - is the following true and how will it effect saorsat's performance? "Unlike the Ku and the C bands, however, it (Ka) is far more susceptible to signal attenuation under rainy conditions"

Also the same size dish at satellite and home on Ka rather than Ku is each about twice the gain. We don't exactly know what size the dishes on the Satellite are, but there are four and they are likely larger than on older satellites.

So although the rain attenuation is very much higher, RTENL did provisionally mention a 65cm dish.

I've always explained to people that a clear sky is no indication of performance. On ka this is more of a change. The Ka-Sat is also adaptive. Each spot (and even data on VSAT connections) varies in power for the worst case link performance.

Because of higher dish gain and highish per spot power my estimate was that 44cm was possible. But it seems RTENL will run at lower than maximum carrier power (this save money and decreases "overspill" too).

Onwave now have an online shop selling KA LNBs and the option of an 80cm steel dish.

Postage is only stated for "anywhere in Ireland" next day if ordered early the day before.

Per Item
LNB 35 Each inc free delivery

80cm Steel dish WITH LNB 65 Each inc free delivery/ or 30 Euro extra for dish if it could be bought on it's own inc free delivery.)

These can only be ordered online so I don't think they want people to call in (for small orders)

No credit card charge. Laser, Mastercard and Visa accepted

Warning:

This product is for enthusiats NOT to be installed to watch actual TV yet.
Service is on test, may be discontinued, turned off, changed at any moment

Compatable equipment (especially receivers Saorview/Sat/Freeview certified) not available, may never be available.

The dish DOES NOT COME WITH ANY WALL BRACKET. This needs to be purchased seperately.
The dish DOES NOT COME WITH COAX
The dish DOES NOT COME WITH a bracket for a second LNB
The dish may not be able to mount a bracket for a second LNB
The dish may be the wrong size (unless RTENL says otherwise)

Sales pitch:
"This 80cm satellite dish is perfect for receiving the Ka Satellite signal and if a Ku Satellite LNB is added can also receive Freesat channels from Astra28 degrees"

But note:
"A larger dish may be required to receive the satellite signal in some parts of Ireland"

Should the KA LNB be in prime focus or offset -We don't know yet. The dish in the picture is not a photo and the logo on it is "onwave" -not a dish manufacturer. Setting up a dual LNB dish is not for beginners at this stage - Kits may emerge in the future.

I would not recommend buying the dish, particularly as no-one knows what size will be recommended. Also the dish quality/make is unknown (probably cheap rubbish?)

An 80cm dish with KA LNB might be quite hard to point as dishes are more directional on KA than they are for normal Satellite work.

Steel dishes are probably not suitable for seaside/very exposed areas.

If purchasing anything don't buy more than one LNB, strictly for testing only. They mention basically no refunds if RTENL don't supply a signal. There is no discount or saving on shipping if you buy more than one.

A receiver is not included. You need a minimum Satellite HD (DVB-S2 receiver) The best receiver to buy is not known so I recommend not buying a receiver if you don't have one already. They do mention one make in the faq but are not selling it online.

Do not start wiring up your house for Saorsat with cables/multiswitches etc. Clear guides will be provided on the best setup in the future by RTENL and boards members.

The suppliers are attempting to be "ahead of the game" but there are risks for that. By giving them your details (address, email, phone number etc) they may try to sell you other products (called upselling) such as broadband by Satellite which should only be used as a last resort (expensive, hourly caps, loads of catches, long minimum contract etc)

They may offer to install it for you at a high cost and who knows if they know what they are doing? Buyer BEWARE

The dish can/will be possibly installed by any good aerial installer. Some may not know now how to do it but there should be training by RTENL in the coming weeks/months.

If you have never installed a dish youself then wait until boards.ie members have tested everything and can recommend what is the best way to do it.

Below is a copy of the frequently asked questions from their site
Note this is biased sales speak

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FAQ

What are the benefits of this system?
This equipment is the first on the Irish market to allow users to view Irish Saorview TV channels (RTE 1, RTE 2 etc.) anywhere in Ireland regardless of aerial signal quality and without a monthly TV subscription. This system can be connected to a single set top box and does not require the installation of an aerial.

I have a Free to air dish, can I use the Saorview Ka Sat LNB with this dish to receive the Saorview channels?
No. A different satellite dish is required which also needs to be pointed to Eutelsat KASat 9E degree. A different set top box is also required to decode the signal.

Where can I get this system installed?
Onwave can install this system as part of a satellite broadband installation. Click here for more details.

I have a Saorview approved set top box, can I connect this to the Saorview satellite service?
That depends on the type of set top box. Only the Walker WP75SAT-HD set top box is currently recommended by Onwave for this satellite service. Other set top boxes and MPEG4 TVs may be compatible with this system.

What other satellites can be received on this Satellite dish?
Astra 28 Degrees East which broadcasts Freesat channels can also be received with a multifeed arm with a Ku Sat LNB.

What direction in the sky does this satellite dish need to be pointed to?
This dish should be pointed to 9 degrees east.

What cable is required for this installation?
Standard RG6 cable. We do not provide cable with any online purchases. Please consult your local TV installer for a quote on cable required.

What type of bracket is required for this satellite dish?
A standard universal wall mount can be used. Please contact your local TV installer for more information.

What channels are available with this system?
RTE is currently testing this system and as such, the complete Saorview channel list is not available.

Currently RTE1, RTE2, RTE News Now, RTE +1 & RTEjr. For more information about Saorview by satellite please consult the official Saorview website.

How do I install the satellite dish?
If you are unfamiliar with satellite dish installations, we recommend getting a local satellite installer to install this system for you. The main receiver is the Ka Sat LNB which can be connected to an approved

Saorview satellite set top box. It may also function if connected to an MPEG4 TV.

What comes with the satellite dish?
The dish comes with an easy mount arm and an LNB holder. No wall mount is included with this dish.

Delivery FAQ
Onwave can deliver to anywhere in Ireland. Delivery is next day depending on what time of day the order is received.

Refunds FAQ
Refunds are not available unless equipment has been demonstrated not to function correctly. Onwave has no control over the transmission of the signal and as such cannot be responsible for signal quality or channels received. For full details please consult the Terms & Conditions.

T&Cs
Full terms and conditions are available here.

Is it possible to record from this system?
This system uses an MPEG4 signal and if connected to the correct set top box, recording may be possible.

Onwave accepts no liability should this not be possible

Should you have any further queries that have not been covered on this page please email us with your

question etc

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The "Terms and conditions" links to a PDF with more legalese.

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At the bottom of the page under TV there is logos of channels with NO TV3 nor 3E -very worrying
On the FAQ it says
"RTE is currently testing this system and as such, the complete Saorview channel list is not available"
then it lists the same set of channels again.

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Here is the link you have been waiting for:
http://www.onwave.ie/saorview_parts

This page may go down for maintenance, it was all day Tuesday and most of today
There is a contact email address at the bottom of the FAQ page
There is no link to this page from the main onwave site.
There was also an apology about the delay...

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Note the absence of the "Saorsat" wording on the site. I will test it asap and see what the second F connector does!

TV3 is about penny pinching, not rights. They will be available to over 55% in N.I. Terrestrially.

The dish size will have to be a standard size for all of Ireland. 80cm maybe to big.

Also if the service is not going to be available to Northern Ireland, then the footprint is going to be fun as the footprint will need to cover county Donegal.

TV3 are most likely not going to offer due to UTV rights.

Why are BBC not offering free, if RTE is going on 4 transmitters in Northern Ireland.

watty wrote: »

The service only meant for those that can't get Saorview. Not enough LNBs for 1/2 the country to go installing it. So ...
65cm is old info.

To reduce coverage and costs, and discourage take up as a mass service an 80cm will be needed for a single feed

You appear to have received updated info since you posted over in DS an hour ago, inside info?

Is the low-key announcement expected this week? Is this upcoming launch similar to the soft launch of Saorview in Oct 2010 before the full launch in May 2011? Public testing phase before ASO? Maybe higher power after testing/ASO based on viewer feedback?

I understand how coverage would be reduced but how would this relate to reduction in costs?

Is the low-key announcement expected this week? Is this upcoming launch similar to the soft launch of Saorview in Oct 2010 before the full launch in May 2011? Public testing phase before ASO? Maybe higher power after testing/ASO based on viewer feedback?

No idea. Sorry. I doubt they will change the power much. It's possible to get that pretty much correct after tests.


The spots are auto-adaptive. It's more a case that they reduce the power if the whole of Ireland is a clear sky. Only the Internet connections are totally adaptive.

You do pay less for less carrier power. I used to have all the prices of power and bandwidth for Intelsat 907.

If the carrier power for the entire spot automatically varies up and down with the weather/link conditions then RTE's power from space may vary all over the place. This would be especially noticeable if weather was bad everywhere else but good where you were.

We should try to keep an eye on the quality received and the relative power of Saorsat carrier vs Internet carrier. I know the internet carrier can vary power and change bit rate to suit conditions but it would be interesting to see the RTENL carrier.

It would be an interesting qn to pose an RTENL engineer after it is oficially launched. I will try get one to give a talk when they are not gagged.

Also can someone buy a couple of these LNBs, calculate international postage and put them on eBay? I know there are a couple of people in Wales and Germany that are looking to get them. I will start a thread on the Foreign Satellite section for what the Germans are hoping to pick up. There may also be demand from the USA.

I am very busy/away for a week or two. Can someone order an extra one and put it on eBay?

Also I think it was nice for Onwave to give them to enthusiats. I don't think they really wanted to sell them on 1's and 2's or even yet but all the anoraks calling convinced them!

watty wrote: »

To reduce coverage and costs, and discourage take up as a mass service an 80cm will be needed for a single feed

What's the source for this statement?