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€91,000 compensation in Dublin "slavery" case

13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,204 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Morlar wrote: »
    The only reason I can think of is he was here on a permit where he is tied to that employer for x amount of years. No job = no permit.

    If he had reported it he would have then lost his permit. I don't believe he just 'was not aware' or 'did not have a single chance to report it during all those years'.

    Or perhaps like many people who are being abused he did not know where to turn to for help.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Or perhaps like many people who are being abused he did not know where to turn to for help.

    Reminds me of the slaves that were rescued from a Traveller site - I just have huge difficulty understanding why people like that don't try to do something even if it did mean being repatriated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Reminds me of the slaves that were rescued from a Traveller site - I just have huge difficulty understanding why people like that don't try to do something even if it did mean being repatriated.

    Oh for **** sake - when you're being treated like a slave it's not bloody easy to do something to get out of the situation

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Oh for **** sake - when you're being treated like a slave it's not bloody easy to do something to get out of the situation

    It isn't?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It isn't?
    Obviously not :rolleyes: - particularly when they hold your work permit and passport and control your living accommodation

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,204 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Reminds me of the slaves that were rescued from a Traveller site - I just have huge difficulty understanding why people like that don't try to do something even if it did mean being repatriated.

    Do you also have a huge difficulty understanding why people stay with abusive partner?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Obviously not :rolleyes: - particularly when they hold your work permit and passport and control your living accommodation

    Forgive me if I have difficulty empathizing with slaves - you see I've never had that type of experience.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,453 ✭✭✭Icepick


    So it looks look it will take the EU taking us to court to actually outlaw forced labour....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Do you also have a huge difficulty understanding why people stay with abusive partner?

    I can imagine why it would happen and I'd hazard a guess that there are complex psychological factors and that's before children and financial factors are considered.

    You see when I try to put myself in the position of a slave the only file I can access is the 'I'm getting TF out of here as soon as possible' one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,093 ✭✭✭CiaranMT


    I can imagine why it would happen and I'd hazard a guess that there are complex psychological factors and that's before children and financial factors are considered.

    You see when I try to put myself in the position of a slave the only file I can access is the 'I'm getting TF out of here as soon as possible' one.

    You couldn't come across as more naive/ignorant of others' situations.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    CiaranMT wrote: »
    You couldn't come across as more naive/ignorant of others' situations.

    Yeah I'm probably coming across as ignorant and I'm usually a quite thoughtful person but the not running away thing is hard for me to grasp.

    I'll do a bit of reading up on it.

    I don't mean to offend and apologise if anyone has been.

    I'm out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I can imagine why it would happen and I'd hazard a guess that there are complex psychological factors and that's before children and financial factors are considered.

    You see when I try to put myself in the position of a slave the only file I can access is the 'I'm getting TF out of here as soon as possible' one.
    sure but if people are controlling you through work permit, passport, violence, intimidation, control over your home - it's not easy

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Just a reminder that €86,134 of this was back pay going to 10 years ago.

    So for the restaurateur this is not a punishment, it's been a very cheap overdraft. That might never be paid off, what happens if the restaurant goes bust ??

    It just sends a signal to other employers that "hey if you get caught, we'll only ask you to pay back what you got caught for"

    Of course if the employee had dipped his hand in the till for a fraction of that amount what are the chances that he'd have a criminal record for it or perhaps time in prison ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Just a reminder that €86,134 of this was back pay going to 10 years ago.

    So for the restaurateur this is not a punishment, it's been a very cheap overdraft. That might never be paid off, what happens if the restaurant goes bust ??

    It just sends a signal to other employers that "hey if you get caught, we'll only ask you to pay back what you got caught for"

    Of course if the employee had dipped his hand in the till for a fraction of that amount what are the chances that he'd have a criminal record for it or perhaps time in prison ?

    In fairness, punitive damages are regularly given in cases such as this but mostly by the Employment appeals tribunal or the Labour court. What reached the court on this occasion was just looking to get what the rights commisioner awarded.

    we still need criminal legislation for this though


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    In fairness, punitive damages are regularly given in cases such as this but mostly by the Employment appeals tribunal or the Labour court. What reached the court on this occasion was just looking to get what the rights commisioner awarded.
    I'm just pointing out that there has been no downside for the owner on this, at the very worst it's cheap money. At present it's nearly free money.

    If you owed this much money to the bank you'd have to have collateral or life insurance , because there is a significant chance that either of the people involved could die over the course of a decade
    we still need criminal legislation for this though
    totally agree, this case is an example. 10 years waiting to get paid. In some cases it's only been the actual threat of jail that has resulted in payments.
    Who pays for the legal costs ?
    Who pays for the interest rates on the money the employee borrowed to live on / opportunity cost of not having it ?
    How much did the owner make on this money over the last decade ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,096 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Just a reminder that €86,134 of this was back pay going to 10 years ago.

    So for the restaurateur this is not a punishment, it's been a very cheap overdraft. That might never be paid off, what happens if the restaurant goes bust ??

    It just sends a signal to other employers that "hey if you get caught, we'll only ask you to pay back what you got caught for"

    Of course if the employee had dipped his hand in the till for a fraction of that amount what are the chances that he'd have a criminal record for it or perhaps time in prison ?

    What I don't understand is how the authorities haven't revoked this chancers residency permit, deported his slave owning ass back to Pakistan and seized his businesses and sold them off to ensure that this poor man got his compensation.
    The level of inertia in this country when it comes to regulation and enforcement just staggers me.
    Certainly I would hope that, imigration, labor, health and tax inspectors have gone through his businesses with a fine tooth comb looking for any and every opportunity to jail the bastard. That ordinary people have to protest outside a business to demand justice is just shameful.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    conorhal wrote: »
    What I don't understand is how the authorities haven't revoked this chancers residency permit, deported his slave owning ass back to Pakistan and seized his businesses and sold them off to ensure that this poor man got his compensation.
    The level of inertia in this country when it comes to regulation and enforcement just staggers me.

    I'd imagine thats somewhere in the same drawer as "Why can I hear my neighbours texting through the walls?" "You mean somebody signed off on this and nobody is liable?" and "Why is there a housing estate in a turlough?"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,096 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Nodin wrote: »
    I'd imagine thats somewhere in the same drawer as "Why can I hear my neighbours texting through the walls?" "You mean somebody signed off on this and nobody is liable?" and "Why is there a housing estate in a turlough?"

    Nonsense like this just angers me. It think it's time we fly in a plane load of those transexual tax-inspectors that they use in Pakistan to flashmob his businesses and barrak him until he pays up.... ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    conorhal wrote: »
    Nonsense like this just angers me. It think it's time we fly in a plane load of those transexual tax-inspectors that they use in Pakistan to flashmob his businesses and barrak him until he pays up.... ;)


    .....plant a rumor it was him that grassed out Bin laden and threaten to deport him would do the trick.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    apparently they're gonna cover this on Primetime tonight

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭boobar


    Dionysus wrote: »
    I just heard a variant of this story on the radio on the way home.




    Boss ordered to give €91,000 to 'slave' worker
    By Aideen Sheehan
    Wednesday September 14 2011


    A HIGH-PROFILE restaurateur has been ordered to pay a worker €91,000 for gross exploitation which has been likened to slavery.

    The Labour Court has ordered Poppadom restaurant chain owner Amjad Hussein to pay Pakistani chef Muhammad Younis €91,000 over breaches of employment rights.

    Mr Younis said he was forced to work 77 hours a week as a Tandoori chef at Poppadom takeaway in Clondalkin, with Christmas Day his only time off during the seven years he worked there.

    During that time he was paid just 51c an hour between 2002 and 2005, although he secured increases to €4.46 an hour in 2005 and €6.25 an hour in 2006, all well below the minimum wage.

    Mr Younis said he was also forced to work without any contract, tax or social contributions being paid, and his employer failed to renew his work permit or his passport as promised, leaving him undocumented.

    He shared an overcrowded house in Leixlip provided by Mr Hussein.

    He eventually left the job in 2009 and approached the Migrant Rights Centre Ireland (MRCI) for assistance.

    Rulings by the Labour Court this month have upheld previous Rights Commissioner rulings that Mr Younis should be paid €86,134 in back pay owed to him by his former employer under the National Minimum Wage Act 2000 and €5,000 under the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997.

    Desperate

    However, Mr Younis may now face another legal battle to get his money, as the MRCI said it may have to seek an order for payment from the Circuit Court if Mr Hussein fails to pay up what he owes.

    Mr Younis told the Irish Independent he was desperate to get the money he was owed as he has a wife and nine children at home to support. He has not seen his family since he came to Ireland in 2002.

    He said that while he was working at Poppadom between 2002 and 2009, he despaired for his future. "The exploitation I suffered put me in a deep, dark well. I felt I had no hope for my future and no way out," he said.

    He is currently living in a hostel on the equivalent of an asylum seeker's allowance of €19.80 a week, and has been seeking a new job to secure a work permit.

    The case is one of 150 taken by the MRCI in the past six years -- including five cases this year -- for a variety of workers including domestic and restaurant staff, farm and circus workers.

    "The gross exploitation and chronic conditions that Mr Younis suffered constitute forced labour.

    "In Ireland there is no legal punishment for forced labour and so the only remedy open to Mr Younis was to pursue breaches of employment law," said Grainne O'Toole of the MRCI.

    Ireland was in contravention of the European Convention on Human Rights by failing to bring in legal protection against slavery and forced labour, she added.

    Mr Hussein did not respond to requests for a comment.

    Boss ordered to give €91,000 to 'slave' worker



    If, like me, you're ethically and culturally hostile to Independent Newspapers, this is Journal.ie's take on this story:


    Restaurant worker awarded €86,000 after years of forced labour in Dublin


    A RESTAURANT WORKER who was forced to work for seven years for paltry pay and almost no days off has been awarded €86,000 by the Labour Court.
    Muhammad Younis, who is originally from Pakistan, worked as a chef at the Poppadom restaurant in Clondalkin from 2002 to 2009 in what have been described as ‘chronic conditions’ by the Migrant Rights Centre Ireland (MRCI).
    Younis was forced to work 77 hours a week without a contract. He paid no tax or social insurance contributions and was subjected to threats.
    The Irish Independent reports today that he was paid just 51 cent an hour during the first three years that he worked at the restaurant. His hourly pay rose to just under €4.50 in 2005, and then to €6.25 in 2006.
    Younis shared a house with nine other workers. The accommodation was provided by his ex-employer Amjad Hussein, who was this week ordered to pay tens of thousands in back wages by the Labour Court. A Rights Commissioner originally awarded the sum to Mr. Younis, but his former employer has not yet paid the compensation.
    Younis has been living in a hostel for the past two years, after he left his job and sought assistance from the MRCI. His former employer had failed to renew his work permit, leaving him undocumented. Younis has welcomed the Labour Court decision, saying:
    I am away from my family, jobless and I am owed a lot of money for my work. I am suffering because of the bad treatment I was subjected to. All I want now is justice.
    The MRCI yesterday said that it regularly comes across cases in Ireland were vulnerable people are being held and forced to work in conditions of slavery. The organisation said there have been at least 150 cases in the past six years.
    Delphine O’Keefe of the MRCI told TheJournal.ie that the restaurant industry is one of the sectors where non-compliance and exploitation are ongoing issues. She’s calling on the government to introduce a law to specifically criminalise forced labour.
    The MRCI has said that Ireland is in breach of Article 4 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which provides protection against slavery and forced labour. It says that the biggest struggle facing the MRCI in terms of Mr. Younis’ case is ensuring that he actually gets paid what he is owed.

    Restaurant worker awarded €86,000 after years of forced labour in Dublin



    Imagine that, a complete bastard and he's not one of the 88 million Germans/Nazis (:rolleyes:) but living here in Dublin and the culprit in question is not being imprisoned because the democratically-elected government of Ireland does not have laws to imprison somebody who "enslaves" another person in Ireland. Does this mean, going on the Germans=Nazis analogy throughout this thread, that all the Irish people support slavery? (hey, weren't those people in Britain also Irish? - oops, this German=Nazi analogy has its faults!)

    Anyway, the above anti-retard rant out of the way, how many more people in this state are being exploited to the extent of bonded slavery and the offenders are getting off because our elected governments have failed to make it a crime worthy of imprisonment? Leaving aside all the ethnic restaurants like that Indian restaurant in Clondalkin, how many cheapskate Irish people are, as I write, exploiting non-Irish au pairs and house staff of all sorts in an abysmal way, a way they would not be able to treat an Irish person?




    Waits for the "lucky to have a job" response


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    So he still hasn't got any of his 91 grand and the law in Ireland doesn't criminalize forced labour - disgraceful

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Has the owner paid the income tax and PRSI etc on the back wages ?

    And if not why hasn't the revenue done him ?

    They charge interest on missed payments.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭DerekDGoldfish


    I have ordered from this place in the past, I wont ever give them my business again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭Eire Go Brach


    Just walked by. It's closed. Or rebranding?

    I wonder did the poor man ever get his money back.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 484 ✭✭bcirl03


    Looks like Muhammad Younis will not be getting the monies owed to him.

    Restaurant ordered to pay worker €86,000 have ruling overturned -

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/restaurant-ordered-to-pay-worker-86000-have-ruling-overturned-565141.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Bizarre state of affairs. He's only here illegally because yer man never renewed his visa.....


  • Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I hope they've lost that much money from clientele refusing to use their establishment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    bcirl03 wrote: »
    Looks like Muhammad Younis will not be getting the monies owed to him.

    Restaurant ordered to pay worker €86,000 have ruling overturned -

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/restaurant-ordered-to-pay-worker-86000-have-ruling-overturned-565141.html

    I'd say it will go to the Supreme Court.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 484 ✭✭bcirl03


    I hope they've lost that much money from clientele refusing to use their establishment.

    Lets hope.

    I know the take away in Clondalkin has changed name so people may not be aware and still order from there.

    Cant remember what it's called now.....


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