€91,000 compensation in Dublin "slavery" case

Dionysus

I just heard a variant of this story on the radio on the way home.

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Boss ordered to give €91,000 to 'slave' worker
By Aideen Sheehan
Wednesday September 14 2011


A HIGH-PROFILE restaurateur has been ordered to pay a worker €91,000 for gross exploitation which has been likened to slavery.

The Labour Court has ordered Poppadom restaurant chain owner Amjad Hussein to pay Pakistani chef Muhammad Younis €91,000 over breaches of employment rights.

Mr Younis said he was forced to work 77 hours a week as a Tandoori chef at Poppadom takeaway in Clondalkin, with Christmas Day his only time off during the seven years he worked there.

During that time he was paid just 51c an hour between 2002 and 2005, although he secured increases to €4.46 an hour in 2005 and €6.25 an hour in 2006, all well below the minimum wage.

Mr Younis said he was also forced to work without any contract, tax or social contributions being paid, and his employer failed to renew his work permit or his passport as promised, leaving him undocumented.

He shared an overcrowded house in Leixlip provided by Mr Hussein.

He eventually left the job in 2009 and approached the Migrant Rights Centre Ireland (MRCI) for assistance.

Rulings by the Labour Court this month have upheld previous Rights Commissioner rulings that Mr Younis should be paid €86,134 in back pay owed to him by his former employer under the National Minimum Wage Act 2000 and €5,000 under the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997.

Desperate

However, Mr Younis may now face another legal battle to get his money, as the MRCI said it may have to seek an order for payment from the Circuit Court if Mr Hussein fails to pay up what he owes.

Mr Younis told the Irish Independent he was desperate to get the money he was owed as he has a wife and nine children at home to support. He has not seen his family since he came to Ireland in 2002.

He said that while he was working at Poppadom between 2002 and 2009, he despaired for his future. "The exploitation I suffered put me in a deep, dark well. I felt I had no hope for my future and no way out," he said.

He is currently living in a hostel on the equivalent of an asylum seeker's allowance of €19.80 a week, and has been seeking a new job to secure a work permit.

The case is one of 150 taken by the MRCI in the past six years -- including five cases this year -- for a variety of workers including domestic and restaurant staff, farm and circus workers.

"The gross exploitation and chronic conditions that Mr Younis suffered constitute forced labour.

"In Ireland there is no legal punishment for forced labour and so the only remedy open to Mr Younis was to pursue breaches of employment law," said Grainne O'Toole of the MRCI.

Ireland was in contravention of the European Convention on Human Rights by failing to bring in legal protection against slavery and forced labour, she added.

Mr Hussein did not respond to requests for a comment.

Boss ordered to give €91,000 to 'slave' worker

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If, like me, you're ethically and culturally hostile to Independent Newspapers, this is Journal.ie's take on this story:


Restaurant worker awarded €86,000 after years of forced labour in Dublin


A RESTAURANT WORKER who was forced to work for seven years for paltry pay and almost no days off has been awarded €86,000 by the Labour Court.
Muhammad Younis, who is originally from Pakistan, worked as a chef at the Poppadom restaurant in Clondalkin from 2002 to 2009 in what have been described as ‘chronic conditions’ by the Migrant Rights Centre Ireland (MRCI).
Younis was forced to work 77 hours a week without a contract. He paid no tax or social insurance contributions and was subjected to threats.
The Irish Independent reports today that he was paid just 51 cent an hour during the first three years that he worked at the restaurant. His hourly pay rose to just under €4.50 in 2005, and then to €6.25 in 2006.
Younis shared a house with nine other workers. The accommodation was provided by his ex-employer Amjad Hussein, who was this week ordered to pay tens of thousands in back wages by the Labour Court. A Rights Commissioner originally awarded the sum to Mr. Younis, but his former employer has not yet paid the compensation.
Younis has been living in a hostel for the past two years, after he left his job and sought assistance from the MRCI. His former employer had failed to renew his work permit, leaving him undocumented. Younis has welcomed the Labour Court decision, saying:
I am away from my family, jobless and I am owed a lot of money for my work. I am suffering because of the bad treatment I was subjected to. All I want now is justice.
The MRCI yesterday said that it regularly comes across cases in Ireland were vulnerable people are being held and forced to work in conditions of slavery. The organisation said there have been at least 150 cases in the past six years.
Delphine O’Keefe of the MRCI told TheJournal.ie that the restaurant industry is one of the sectors where non-compliance and exploitation are ongoing issues. She’s calling on the government to introduce a law to specifically criminalise forced labour.
The MRCI has said that Ireland is in breach of Article 4 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which provides protection against slavery and forced labour. It says that the biggest struggle facing the MRCI in terms of Mr. Younis’ case is ensuring that he actually gets paid what he is owed.

Restaurant worker awarded €86,000 after years of forced labour in Dublin

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Imagine that, a complete bastard and he's not one of the 88 million Germans/Nazis (:rolleyes:) but living here in Dublin and the culprit in question is not being imprisoned because the democratically-elected government of Ireland does not have laws to imprison somebody who "enslaves" another person in Ireland. Does this mean, going on the Germans=Nazis analogy throughout this thread, that all the Irish people support slavery? (hey, weren't those people in Britain also Irish? - oops, this German=Nazi analogy has its faults!)

Anyway, the above anti-retard rant out of the way, how many more people in this state are being exploited to the extent of bonded slavery and the offenders are getting off because our elected governments have failed to make it a crime worthy of imprisonment? Leaving aside all the ethnic restaurants like that Indian restaurant in Clondalkin, how many cheapskate Irish people are, as I write, exploiting non-Irish au pairs and house staff of all sorts in an abysmal way, a way they would not be able to treat an Irish person?

Dennis the Stone

It's a ring toss game!

HappyHouseWife

@ OP, I think you'll find that the vast majority of this type of thing is carried out by immigrants fellow countrymen and not by Irish people. I reckon 99.9% of Au Pairs etc working for Irish people are quite happy with their positions. Jeez, I am so sick and tired of people in this country bashing their own nation at every opportunity. Give it a f**kin' rest.

Capt'n Midnight

So the employer just had to pay back pay at the minimum wage. :mad::mad:

It's as if the employer got a low interest loan from the employee, that he hasn't paid back yet. Not exactly punitive is it ?

Will he be entitled to all those years of PRSI ?

Nodin

HappyHouseWife wrote: »

@ OP, I think you'll find that the vast majority of this type of thing is carried out by immigrants fellow countrymen and not by Irish people. I reckon 99.9% of Au Pairs etc working for Irish people are quite happy with their positions. Jeez, I am so sick and tired of people in this country bashing their own nation at every opportunity. Give it a f**kin' rest.

You don't sound very happy.

Kevin Duffy

HappyHouseWife wrote: »

@ OP, I think you'll find that the vast majority of this type of thing is carried out by immigrants fellow countrymen and not by Irish people. I reckon 99.9% of Au Pairs etc working for Irish people are quite happy with their positions. Jeez, I am so sick and tired of people in this country bashing their own nation at every opportunity. Give it a f**kin' rest.

Go on, give us something to back that up, other than a wild guess.

I know several au pairs, I'd say 50/50 on the happiness scale.

Nodin

Dionysus wrote: »

I just heard a variant of this story on the radio on the way home.

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..............person?

I'm amazed there's no criminal law against this kind of thing. Then again, as its only going to affect the 'little people' of the world, its not that suprising.

parker kent

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Go on, give us something to back that up, other than a wild guess.

I know several au pairs, I'd say 50/50 on the happiness scale.

Happy? Maybe not. Slaves? Hardly. The fact is that we are a pretty decent country to work in.

Resi12

parker kent wrote: »

Happy? Maybe not. Slaves? Hardly. The fact is that we are a pretty decent country to work in.

Unless you're getting 51c an hour for 364 days of work for a year.

Dionysus

Nodin wrote: »

I'm amazed there's no criminal law against this kind of thing. Then again, as its only going to affect the 'little people' of the world, its not that suprising.

Have to improve on the auld editing there, Nodin, as I'm lost to the world on your quoted part of my post.

sdanseo

€1,400 a year for a 77-hour week.

Wow. That employer should rot in jail, not just pay back the money, why in blazes has he not been arrested??

DublinWriter

HappyHouseWife wrote: »

@ OP, I think you'll find that the vast majority of this type of thing is carried out by immigrants fellow countrymen and not by Irish people. I reckon 99.9% of Au Pairs etc working for Irish people are quite happy with their positions.

There was a very good documentary on RTE Radio 1 recently interviewing many young Filipino women who came to Ireland as au-pairs for middle-class Irish families and who were completely taken advantage of, especially on family 'holidays' abroad where they were expected to work 24X7 for minimum wage.

Dionysus

HappyHouseWife wrote: »

@ OP, I think you'll find that the vast majority of this type of thing is carried out by immigrants fellow countrymen and not by Irish people. I reckon 99.9% of Au Pairs etc working for Irish people are quite happy with their positions. Jeez, I am so sick and tired of people in this country bashing their own nation at every opportunity. Give it a f**kin' rest.

1. You really do not sound like a happy anything.

2. As I said, 'Leaving aside all the ethnic restaurants like that Indian restaurant in Clondalkin, how many cheapskate Irish people are, as I write, exploiting non-Irish au pairs and house staff of all sorts in an abysmal way, a way they would not be able to treat an Irish person?'. Could you please explain your statistics regarding the "I think you'll find..." and your "reckoning". I don't have any statistics, which is why I never mentioned any.

3. As for your ' I am so sick and tired of people in this country bashing their own nation at every opportunity', what are you personally doing to improve the general worth, class, education level and decency of Irish society? Have you established a local voluntary organisation to help the elderly/young/disabled/homeless/environment?

Dionysus

DublinWriter wrote: »

There was a very good documentary on RTE Radio 1 recently interviewing many young Filipino women who came to Ireland as au-pairs for middle-class Irish families and who were completely taken advantage off, especially on family 'holidays' abroad where they were expected to work 24X7 for minimum wage.

This is one of the many such stories to which I was alluding.

7sr2z3fely84g5

i was suspicious the day the particularity with the hospitality sector welcomed the opening of eu borders for workers during the good times.

an old article from 2010-
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/migrant-workers-get-less-favourable-treatment-2080650.html

FOREIGNERS are only half as likely as Irish nationals to have favourable working conditions here, new figures reveal.And those working in the hotel and restaurant sector are faring badly, with the worst rate of access to favourable working conditions in every category.

Dionysus

sdeire wrote: »

€1,400 a year for a 77-hour week.

Wow. That employer should rot in jail, not just pay back the money, why in blazes has he not been arrested??

It seems the Irish state does not have the laws in place to jail such an individual.

sdanseo

Dionysus wrote: »

It seems the Irish state does not have the laws in place to jail such an individual.

Madness - might mention this to the local TDs after I've had a look at the acts mentioned. That an employer can't be jailed for effectively forcing someone to work like that, especially for so long, really isn't on.

Kevin Duffy

parker kent wrote: »

Happy? Maybe not. Slaves? Hardly. The fact is that we are a pretty decent country to work in.

The comment I was addressing suggested 99.9% were happy, in fact said "quite happy". This is what I was disputing. I have no stats, just personal experience (I did a p/t job that happened to bring me into contact with them) and I was guessing 50/50. Common gripes were arbitrary and overlong hours, designed to stop them having social lives it would seem.
That said, I'd say I'm wrong and there are more unhappy ones who don't even get out of the house to tall anyone they're unhappy.

I'm guessing the HappyHouseWife is trying to tell herself that sulky fordinner crying all over the house is only unhappy 'cos she's homesick.

PseudoFamous

HappyHouseWife wrote: »

@ OP, I think you'll find that the vast majority of this type of thing is carried out by immigrants fellow countrymen and not by Irish people. I reckon 99.9% of Au Pairs etc working for Irish people are quite happy with their positions. Jeez, I am so sick and tired of people in this country bashing their own nation at every opportunity. Give it a f**kin' rest.

No, there's a mushroom growing/processing place in Wexford that had an entire workforce of people working well below minimum wage, all foreign. I'm pretty sure the company is Irish owned, too.

Dionysus

Jermaine Dirty Ointment wrote: »

i was suspicious the day the particularity with the hospitality sector welcomed the opening of eu borders for workers during the good times.

an old article from 2010-
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/migrant-workers-get-less-favourable-treatment-2080650.html

Bloody right. Treat me like shíte, and I'll tell every person I know and word will spread and native Irish capitalist exploiter becomes the victim in this very, very small society very quickly. I even boycott restaurants that friends of friends worked in where the owner kept the tips from the teenagers who worked for him. And many other Irish people do the same.

A person just in off the boat, on the other hand? It's hunting season.

HappyHouseWife

PseudoFamous wrote: »

No, there's a mushroom growing/processing place in Wexford that had an entire workforce of people working well below minimum wage, all foreign. I'm pretty sure the company is Irish owned, too.

Well, if you're so sure the poor workers are being treated like slaves why don't you report it to the relevant authorities?

HappyHouseWife

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Go on, give us something to back that up, other than a wild guess.

I know several au pairs, I'd say 50/50 on the happiness scale.

You'd say 50/50? As wild a guess as mine perhaps.
While the vast majority of non Irish "house" workers might not be turning cartwheels to celebrate their working conditions neither are they being kept as slaves! Someone else on here crying that the poor au pairs are only getting minimum wage! Boo f**king hoo. There's plenty of skilled workers in this country (Irish and non Irish) who's wages have been driven down to the minimum allowed yet they're expected to "be glad they have a job". If the Au pairs don't like their conditions and their minimum wage let them feck off back to their own country where they'll earn a whole lot less!

Nodin

HappyHouseWife wrote: »

You'd say 50/50? As wild a guess as mine perhaps.
While the vast majority of non Irish "house" workers might not be turning cartwheels to celebrate their working conditions neither are they being kept as slaves! Someone else on here crying that the poor au pairs are only getting minimum wage! Boo f**king hoo. There's plenty of skilled workers in this country (Irish and non Irish) who's wages have been driven down to the minimum allowed yet they're expected to "be glad they have a job". If the Au pairs don't like their conditions and their minimum wage let them feck off back to their own country where they'll earn a whole lot less!

The mood hasn't improved, I take it?

HappyHouseWife

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

I'm guessing the HappyHouseWife is trying to tell herself that sulky fordinner crying all over the house is only unhappy 'cos she's homesick.

She has her passport and a return ticket to her home country, she can leave anytime she likes (after she's cleaned the house from top to bottom, raked up all the leaves, washed the Merc and X5, walked the hounds and put the childer to bed etc.)

4zn76tysfajdxp

HappyHouseWife wrote: »

@ OP, I think you'll find that the vast majority of this type of thing is carried out by immigrants fellow countrymen and not by Irish people. I reckon 99.9% of Au Pairs etc working for Irish people are quite happy with their positions.

My girlfriend used to au pair in Ireland. Trust me when I say that some Irish people have no problems exploiting immigrants.

Edit: Just noticed you're a troll. Shame on me.

Kevin Duffy

HappyHouseWife wrote: »

She has her passport and a return ticket to her home country, she can leave anytime she likes (after she's cleaned the house from top to bottom, raked up all the leaves, washed the Merc and X5, walked the hounds and put the childer to bed etc.)

You sound a little happier now, but not by much.

As to my guess at the stats for happy au pairs, I said it was a guess, I said I had no stats, so it's not much of a crticism to point out that I guessed, is it? You on the other hand, threw out a confident "99.9%" and several posts after I asked you had you anything to back that up, you haven't. Fail. Or troll. Or more BoredHouseBound than HappyHouseWife. Or whatever.

Yahew

Why has this even de-generated into a The Irish are racist thread. The restauranter seems, by his name, to be from Pakistan too.

As for slavery. It wasn't. The definition of slavery is not earning below the minimum wage. Thats illegal, but a civil issue. Slavery would be some kind of restriction on movement. ( That may happen with au pairs, though).

In any case this 91K is good. It means a lot of exploited immigrants now know they can leave their employment, pop into a advice centre, and get money to make them fairly comfortable. Meanwhile employers cant expect to get away with it.

With regards au pairs, I have heard, anecdotally, of girls not ever being allow to leave the house. Locked in. That's slavery, and there we should jail.

HappyHouseWife

Tomas Victorious Zinc wrote: »

My girlfriend used to au pair in Ireland. Trust me when I say that some Irish people have no problems exploiting immigrants.

Edit: Just noticed you're a troll. Shame on me.

Amazing, anytime someone has an opinion contrary to the general run of a thread they're accused of being a troll, a real easy word to throw around isn't it?
It doesn't take much to be a Mod on boards but it takes a bit of intelligence to be a good one.
This is my last post on the subject as the thread has completely derailed.
Most Au pairs are moody hormonal bitches anyway who are only interested in bedding the man of the house and shouldn't be let anywhere near a family home!

Cicero

Pompadom was a great restaurant in it's day....*bastid owner doing that to his staff*- greed...total greed

Mena

Sounds to me like happyhousewifes partner was very happy with their au pair

PseudoFamous

HappyHouseWife wrote: »

Well, if you're so sure the poor workers are being treated like slaves why don't you report it to the relevant authorities?

You may have noticed my use of the past tense. In using the past tense, I indicated that this had happened in the past, and the issue had been dealt with. It was in the nuachtán a while back.

ejmaztec

HappyHouseWife wrote: »

Amazing, anytime someone has an opinion contrary to the general run of a thread they're accused of being a troll, a real easy word to throw around isn't it?
It doesn't take much to be a Mod on boards but it takes a bit of intelligence to be a good one.
This is my last post on the subject as the thread has completely derailed.
Most Au pairs are moody hormonal bitches anyway who are only interested in bedding the man of the house and shouldn't be let anywhere near a family home!

I'd say that most of them are here to learn the language and have a bit of craic, and not with the intention of getting laid by some overweight, balding, pasty-faced dirty old wannabe stud.

Annasopra

I read in yesterdays sunday times the owner hasn't paid up yet and there will be a protest on 9th Feb calling for a boycott

token101

HappyHouseWife wrote: »

Most Au pairs are moody hormonal bitches anyway who are only interested in bedding the man of the house and shouldn't be let anywhere near a family home!

Maybe you should have focused more on being a better HappyHouseWife then :P

Doc Ruby

HappyHouseWife wrote: »

Jeez, I am so sick and tired of people in this country bashing their own nation at every opportunity. Give it a f**kin' rest.

This being an internet forum we've really no clue if they are Irish people or someone else with a drum to bang. Fascinating how the op managed to turn a Pakistani worker abuse problem into an Irish one though.

In my experience labour abuses are quite widespread especially in the low skilled/unskilled sector, some examples I've run across include a garage manager abusing his position to gain sexual favours from the Eastern European staff, I'm trying to convince one of the girls to report him to the guards now, Chinese internet cafe owners keeping a guy literally sleeping under the tables (that one hit the papers), the staff of a local shop (Irish and Eastern European) who make a habit of hiring a new person every couple of months and making them do all the work while they sit in the back room drinking coffee, and more. There was an article a while back about how a great many restaurant owners of every type were engaged in some sort of worker abuse. Even the internship scheme is in many cases a form of legitimised worker abuse.

But don't forget it can go both ways. An au pair hired by a family member of mine was caught on camera physically abusing a developmentally challenged child and then uploading it on youtube, before skipping the country. Beats me how Irish households were legally able to bring in domestic help from 12,000 miles away anyway.

sensibleken

Doc Ruby wrote: »

This being an internet forum we've really no clue if they are Irish people or someone else with a drum to bang. Fascinating how the op managed to turn a Pakistani worker abuse problem into an Irish one though.

In my experience labour abuses are quite widespread especially in the low skilled/unskilled sector, some examples I've run across include a garage manager abusing his position to gain sexual favours from the Eastern European staff, I'm trying to convince one of the girls to report him to the guards now, Chinese internet cafe owners keeping a guy literally sleeping under the tables (that one hit the papers), the staff of a local shop (Irish and Eastern European) who make a habit of hiring a new person every couple of months and making them do all the work while they sit in the back room drinking coffee, and more. There was an article a while back about how a great many restaurant owners of every type were engaged in some sort of worker abuse. Even the internship scheme is in many cases a form of legitimised worker abuse.

But don't forget it can go both ways. An au pair hired by a family member of mine was caught on camera physically abusing a developmentally challenged child and then uploading it on youtube, before skipping the country. Beats me how Irish households were legally able to bring in domestic help from 12,000 miles away anyway.

Its shocking how widespread this is. there was a case of lithuanians 'employed' by a butcher getting exactly the same treatment as this pakistani bloke a few years ago. Im just glad that there are good avenues of redress in this country for abused workers. what there needs is more criminal law

Noreen1

Disgusting behaviour by the restaurant owner, in all fairness.

I'm shocked that the poor chef has been living in a hostel for two years.

It's well past time that employers who behave like that are criminalised - yet our TDs fail, time and again, to pass legislation as a disincentive.

Why?
God knows they're quick enough to pass any other legislation they deem fitting!

Morlar

I just hope taxpayers are not stuck with the bill for all of this.

Nodin

Morlar wrote: »

I just hope taxpayers are not stuck with the bill for all of this.

....from the article in the 1st post of the thread......

Boss ordered to give €91,000 to 'slave' worker
By Aideen Sheehan
Wednesday September 14 2011


A HIGH-PROFILE restaurateur has been ordered to pay a worker €91,000 for gross exploitation which has been likened to slavery.

(my underline)

Morlar

Nodin wrote: »

....from the article in the 1st post of the thread......
(my underline)

Yep, I saw that. I am curious what happens when the employer says 'I don't have the money' or just skips the country.

http://www.crimecouncil.gov.ie/Victims_of_crime.html

Victims of Crime

The consequences of crime can vary widely depending on the nature of the crime and the damages involved. For the victim, these consequences can include physical, financial and emotional repercussions and can potentially have a long term impact on their quality of life. Research by the Central Statistics Office indicates that, in 2006, almost 5% of the Irish population were victims of crime (see Irish Crime and Victimisation Surveys). To assist those dealing with the aftermath of criminal behaviour, a number of services have been developed. These include both voluntary and government agencies to assist individuals through the Criminal Justice System process and to support those attempting to deal with any financial and/or emotional difficulties arising from criminal behaviour.

Nodin

Morlar wrote: »

Yep, I saw that. I am curious what happens when the employer says 'I don't have the money' or just skips the country.

http://www.crimecouncil.gov.ie/Victims_of_crime.html

Victims of Crime

The consequences of crime can vary widely depending on the nature of the crime and the damages involved. For the victim, these consequences can include physical, financial and emotional repercussions and can potentially have a long term impact on their quality of life. Research by the Central Statistics Office indicates that, in 2006, almost 5% of the Irish population were victims of crime (see Irish Crime and Victimisation Surveys). To assist those dealing with the aftermath of criminal behaviour, a number of services have been developed. These include both voluntary and government agencies to assist individuals through the Criminal Justice System process and to support those attempting to deal with any financial and/or emotional difficulties arising from criminal behaviour.

If he's covered by that, they can't get the money from the guilty party and it has to be used, why the problem?

Morlar

Nodin wrote: »

If he's covered by that, they can't get the money from the guilty party and it has to be used, why the problem?

'I hope taxpayers are not stung for this' is what I said, and that is what I meant. I hope taxpayers are not going to start getting stung for these kinds of compensation cases.

Paparazzo

Cicero wrote: »

Pompadom was a great restaurant in it's day....*bastid owner doing that to his staff*- greed...total greed

Himalaya is far nicer

whydoibother?

I remeber hearing a while ago that a major reason for this kind of thing was that they were counting on an employer to sign some document for a work permit or visa or something. Essentially they were tied to the same employer, and therefore could not leave if conditions became unfair. I probably have all the terminology wrong. I wonder if it has changed.

CashMoney

Paparazzo wrote: »

Himalaya is far nicer

Funny enough, the food in Poppadom was never the same since this guy (the slave) left. Poppadom was awesome for its first few years but gradually deteriorated. Himalaya is OK but are they still offering those awful dried out microwaved poppadoms?

Bannasidhe

Doc Ruby wrote: »

This being an internet forum we've really no clue if they are Irish people or someone else with a drum to bang. Fascinating how the op managed to turn a Pakistani worker abuse problem into an Irish one though.

In my experience labour abuses are quite widespread especially in the low skilled/unskilled sector, some examples I've run across include a garage manager abusing his position to gain sexual favours from the Eastern European staff, I'm trying to convince one of the girls to report him to the guards now, Chinese internet cafe owners keeping a guy literally sleeping under the tables (that one hit the papers), the staff of a local shop (Irish and Eastern European) who make a habit of hiring a new person every couple of months and making them do all the work while they sit in the back room drinking coffee, and more. There was an article a while back about how a great many restaurant owners of every type were engaged in some sort of worker abuse. Even the internship scheme is in many cases a form of legitimised worker abuse.

But don't forget it can go both ways. An au pair hired by a family member of mine was caught on camera physically abusing a developmentally challenged child and then uploading it on youtube, before skipping the country. Beats me how Irish households were legally able to bring in domestic help from 12,000 miles away anyway.

If this exploitation occurs in Ireland - and we do not have the legislation in place to punish the guilty - then it is an Irish problem. The nationality of the individuals concerned is not relevant, the failure of Irish law to protect people is the issue.

Doc Ruby

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If this exploitation occurs in Ireland - and we do not have the legislation in place to punish the guilty - then it is an Irish problem. The nationality of the individuals concerned is not relevant, the failure of Irish law to protect people is the issue.

Dionysus wrote: »

how many cheapskate Irish people are, as I write, exploiting non-Irish au pairs and house staff of all sorts in an abysmal way, a way they would not be able to treat an Irish person?

Nope, we have a complete and inexplicable u-turn pointing the finger at Irish people. Also the op seems to be labouring under the impression that the law does in fact protect people as long as they are aware of it.

Annasopra

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Nope, we have a complete and inexplicable u-turn pointing the finger at Irish people. Also the op seems to be labouring under the impression that the law does in fact protect people as long as they are aware of it.

There is no law banning forced labour in Ireland

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0917/1224304253120.html

Morlar

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If this exploitation occurs in Ireland - and we do not have the legislation in place to punish the guilty - then it is an Irish problem. The nationality of the individuals concerned is not relevant, the failure of Irish law to protect people is the issue.

You wont find Irish people working for 1.4k pa in order to retain residency in the state, so nationality is a factor in how this scam is operating.

If Pakistani (for example) workers are moving here on work permits tied to one job (in the same way Irish people move to Australia on a work permit tied to one employer for x amount of years, say for example 4 years), then that is usually on the basis that that employer could not find a suitable Irish person for the role.

If the guest worker then discovers the job is illegitimate then they should report that immediately. Failure on their part to do so, and the decision to continue working at those rates for years on end, (until they have completed their mandatory tied to one employer condition) should not then make Irish taxpayers liable for years of salary backlog. imo.

This is another one of those 'don't blame anyone - it's the system, man' stories. Workers who come here on those permits ought to be more stringently checked, to ensure that the job really is one which an Irish person is unable to do. If that is the case the job and salary should be part of the residency permit and checked regularly.

Bannasidhe

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Nope, we have a complete and inexplicable u-turn pointing the finger at Irish people. Also the op seems to be labouring under the impression that the law does in fact protect people as long as they are aware of it.

I don't think it was a u-turn at all. It was a statement that it is not just forinjers who exploit people, that Irish nationals can be just as guilty.

As for the law protecting people - this man was exploited, he had to go and seek redress himself - the law having failed to 'protect' him. He has been waiting since 2009 to have his case heard. ALL he was granted was his backpay - pay he was deprived off. He is being given (if he ever gets it) the money that is legally his - that's it.
Has any criminal action been taken against his employer in that two year period?

The law should not just protect - it should also punish the guilty. But it seems that we have laws that can send people to jail for not having a TV or a dog licence but not to protect people from exploitation by sending their exploiters to jail.

Bannasidhe

Morlar wrote: »

You wont find Irish people working for 1.4k pa in order to retain residency in the state, so nationality is a factor in how this scam is operating.

If Pakistani (for example) workers are moving here on work permits tied to one job (in the same way Irish people move to Australia on a work permit tied to one employer for x amount of years, say for example 4 years), then that is usually on the basis that that employer could not find a suitable Irish person for the role.

If the guest worker then discovers the job is illegitimate then they should report that immediately. Failure on their part to do so, and the decision to continue working at those rates for years on end, (until they have completed their mandatory tied to one employer condition) should not then make Irish taxpayers liable for years of salary backlog. imo.

This is another one of those 'don't blame anyone - it's the system, man' stories. Workers who come here on those permits ought to be more stringently checked, to ensure that the job really is one which an Irish person is unable to do. If that is the case the job and salary should be part of the residency permit and checked regularly.

But they are not being checked - that is a failure of the law.

As for 'If the guest worker then discovers the job is illegitimate then they should report that immediately' this particular worker should maybe have done this on his annual day off - oh, but everything is closed on that particular day.

It seems to me you are twisting this and are intent on blaming the victims.