€91,000 compensation in Dublin "slavery" case

ejmaztec · 17-09-2011 02:50PM

HappyHouseWife wrote: »

Amazing, anytime someone has an opinion contrary to the general run of a thread they're accused of being a troll, a real easy word to throw around isn't it?
It doesn't take much to be a Mod on boards but it takes a bit of intelligence to be a good one.
This is my last post on the subject as the thread has completely derailed.
Most Au pairs are moody hormonal bitches anyway who are only interested in bedding the man of the house and shouldn't be let anywhere near a family home!

I'd say that most of them are here to learn the language and have a bit of craic, and not with the intention of getting laid by some overweight, balding, pasty-faced dirty old wannabe stud.

Annasopra · 30-01-2012 01:59PM

I read in yesterdays sunday times the owner hasn't paid up yet and there will be a protest on 9th Feb calling for a boycott

token101 · 30-01-2012 02:35PM

HappyHouseWife wrote: »

Most Au pairs are moody hormonal bitches anyway who are only interested in bedding the man of the house and shouldn't be let anywhere near a family home!

Maybe you should have focused more on being a better HappyHouseWife then :P

Doc Ruby · 30-01-2012 02:49PM

HappyHouseWife wrote: »

Jeez, I am so sick and tired of people in this country bashing their own nation at every opportunity. Give it a f**kin' rest.

This being an internet forum we've really no clue if they are Irish people or someone else with a drum to bang. Fascinating how the op managed to turn a Pakistani worker abuse problem into an Irish one though.

In my experience labour abuses are quite widespread especially in the low skilled/unskilled sector, some examples I've run across include a garage manager abusing his position to gain sexual favours from the Eastern European staff, I'm trying to convince one of the girls to report him to the guards now, Chinese internet cafe owners keeping a guy literally sleeping under the tables (that one hit the papers), the staff of a local shop (Irish and Eastern European) who make a habit of hiring a new person every couple of months and making them do all the work while they sit in the back room drinking coffee, and more. There was an article a while back about how a great many restaurant owners of every type were engaged in some sort of worker abuse. Even the internship scheme is in many cases a form of legitimised worker abuse.

But don't forget it can go both ways. An au pair hired by a family member of mine was caught on camera physically abusing a developmentally challenged child and then uploading it on youtube, before skipping the country. Beats me how Irish households were legally able to bring in domestic help from 12,000 miles away anyway.

sensibleken · 30-01-2012 02:55PM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

This being an internet forum we've really no clue if they are Irish people or someone else with a drum to bang. Fascinating how the op managed to turn a Pakistani worker abuse problem into an Irish one though.

In my experience labour abuses are quite widespread especially in the low skilled/unskilled sector, some examples I've run across include a garage manager abusing his position to gain sexual favours from the Eastern European staff, I'm trying to convince one of the girls to report him to the guards now, Chinese internet cafe owners keeping a guy literally sleeping under the tables (that one hit the papers), the staff of a local shop (Irish and Eastern European) who make a habit of hiring a new person every couple of months and making them do all the work while they sit in the back room drinking coffee, and more. There was an article a while back about how a great many restaurant owners of every type were engaged in some sort of worker abuse. Even the internship scheme is in many cases a form of legitimised worker abuse.

But don't forget it can go both ways. An au pair hired by a family member of mine was caught on camera physically abusing a developmentally challenged child and then uploading it on youtube, before skipping the country. Beats me how Irish households were legally able to bring in domestic help from 12,000 miles away anyway.

Its shocking how widespread this is. there was a case of lithuanians 'employed' by a butcher getting exactly the same treatment as this pakistani bloke a few years ago. Im just glad that there are good avenues of redress in this country for abused workers. what there needs is more criminal law

Noreen1 · 30-01-2012 03:14PM

Disgusting behaviour by the restaurant owner, in all fairness.

I'm shocked that the poor chef has been living in a hostel for two years.

It's well past time that employers who behave like that are criminalised - yet our TDs fail, time and again, to pass legislation as a disincentive.

Why?
God knows they're quick enough to pass any other legislation they deem fitting!

Morlar · 30-01-2012 04:26PM

I just hope taxpayers are not stuck with the bill for all of this.

Nodin · 30-01-2012 04:28PM

Morlar wrote: »

I just hope taxpayers are not stuck with the bill for all of this.

....from the article in the 1st post of the thread......

Boss ordered to give €91,000 to 'slave' worker
By Aideen Sheehan
Wednesday September 14 2011

A HIGH-PROFILE restaurateur has been ordered to pay a worker €91,000 for gross exploitation which has been likened to slavery.

(my underline)

Morlar · 30-01-2012 04:31PM

Nodin wrote: »

....from the article in the 1st post of the thread......
(my underline)

Yep, I saw that. I am curious what happens when the employer says 'I don't have the money' or just skips the country.

http://www.crimecouncil.gov.ie/Victims_of_crime.html

Victims of Crime

The consequences of crime can vary widely depending on the nature of the crime and the damages involved. For the victim, these consequences can include physical, financial and emotional repercussions and can potentially have a long term impact on their quality of life. Research by the Central Statistics Office indicates that, in 2006, almost 5% of the Irish population were victims of crime (see Irish Crime and Victimisation Surveys). To assist those dealing with the aftermath of criminal behaviour, a number of services have been developed. These include both voluntary and government agencies to assist individuals through the Criminal Justice System process and to support those attempting to deal with any financial and/or emotional difficulties arising from criminal behaviour.

Nodin · 30-01-2012 04:42PM

Morlar wrote: »

Yep, I saw that. I am curious what happens when the employer says 'I don't have the money' or just skips the country.

http://www.crimecouncil.gov.ie/Victims_of_crime.html

Victims of Crime

The consequences of crime can vary widely depending on the nature of the crime and the damages involved. For the victim, these consequences can include physical, financial and emotional repercussions and can potentially have a long term impact on their quality of life. Research by the Central Statistics Office indicates that, in 2006, almost 5% of the Irish population were victims of crime (see Irish Crime and Victimisation Surveys). To assist those dealing with the aftermath of criminal behaviour, a number of services have been developed. These include both voluntary and government agencies to assist individuals through the Criminal Justice System process and to support those attempting to deal with any financial and/or emotional difficulties arising from criminal behaviour.

If he's covered by that, they can't get the money from the guilty party and it has to be used, why the problem?

Morlar · 30-01-2012 04:51PM

Nodin wrote: »

If he's covered by that, they can't get the money from the guilty party and it has to be used, why the problem?

'I hope taxpayers are not stung for this' is what I said, and that is what I meant. I hope taxpayers are not going to start getting stung for these kinds of compensation cases.

Paparazzo · 30-01-2012 04:54PM

Cicero wrote: »

Pompadom was a great restaurant in it's day....*bastid owner doing that to his staff*- greed...total greed

Himalaya is far nicer

whydoibother? · 30-01-2012 04:54PM

I remeber hearing a while ago that a major reason for this kind of thing was that they were counting on an employer to sign some document for a work permit or visa or something. Essentially they were tied to the same employer, and therefore could not leave if conditions became unfair. I probably have all the terminology wrong. I wonder if it has changed.

CashMoney · 30-01-2012 05:02PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

Himalaya is far nicer

Funny enough, the food in Poppadom was never the same since this guy (the slave) left. Poppadom was awesome for its first few years but gradually deteriorated. Himalaya is OK but are they still offering those awful dried out microwaved poppadoms?

Bannasidhe · 30-01-2012 05:06PM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

This being an internet forum we've really no clue if they are Irish people or someone else with a drum to bang. Fascinating how the op managed to turn a Pakistani worker abuse problem into an Irish one though.

In my experience labour abuses are quite widespread especially in the low skilled/unskilled sector, some examples I've run across include a garage manager abusing his position to gain sexual favours from the Eastern European staff, I'm trying to convince one of the girls to report him to the guards now, Chinese internet cafe owners keeping a guy literally sleeping under the tables (that one hit the papers), the staff of a local shop (Irish and Eastern European) who make a habit of hiring a new person every couple of months and making them do all the work while they sit in the back room drinking coffee, and more. There was an article a while back about how a great many restaurant owners of every type were engaged in some sort of worker abuse. Even the internship scheme is in many cases a form of legitimised worker abuse.

But don't forget it can go both ways. An au pair hired by a family member of mine was caught on camera physically abusing a developmentally challenged child and then uploading it on youtube, before skipping the country. Beats me how Irish households were legally able to bring in domestic help from 12,000 miles away anyway.

If this exploitation occurs in Ireland - and we do not have the legislation in place to punish the guilty - then it is an Irish problem. The nationality of the individuals concerned is not relevant, the failure of Irish law to protect people is the issue.

Doc Ruby · 30-01-2012 05:17PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If this exploitation occurs in Ireland - and we do not have the legislation in place to punish the guilty - then it is an Irish problem. The nationality of the individuals concerned is not relevant, the failure of Irish law to protect people is the issue.

Dionysus wrote: »

how many cheapskate Irish people are, as I write, exploiting non-Irish au pairs and house staff of all sorts in an abysmal way, a way they would not be able to treat an Irish person?

Nope, we have a complete and inexplicable u-turn pointing the finger at Irish people. Also the op seems to be labouring under the impression that the law does in fact protect people as long as they are aware of it.

Annasopra · 30-01-2012 05:19PM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Nope, we have a complete and inexplicable u-turn pointing the finger at Irish people. Also the op seems to be labouring under the impression that the law does in fact protect people as long as they are aware of it.

There is no law banning forced labour in Ireland

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0917/1224304253120.html

Morlar · 30-01-2012 05:22PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If this exploitation occurs in Ireland - and we do not have the legislation in place to punish the guilty - then it is an Irish problem. The nationality of the individuals concerned is not relevant, the failure of Irish law to protect people is the issue.

You wont find Irish people working for 1.4k pa in order to retain residency in the state, so nationality is a factor in how this scam is operating.

If Pakistani (for example) workers are moving here on work permits tied to one job (in the same way Irish people move to Australia on a work permit tied to one employer for x amount of years, say for example 4 years), then that is usually on the basis that that employer could not find a suitable Irish person for the role.

If the guest worker then discovers the job is illegitimate then they should report that immediately. Failure on their part to do so, and the decision to continue working at those rates for years on end, (until they have completed their mandatory tied to one employer condition) should not then make Irish taxpayers liable for years of salary backlog. imo.

This is another one of those 'don't blame anyone - it's the system, man' stories. Workers who come here on those permits ought to be more stringently checked, to ensure that the job really is one which an Irish person is unable to do. If that is the case the job and salary should be part of the residency permit and checked regularly.

Bannasidhe · 30-01-2012 05:31PM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Nope, we have a complete and inexplicable u-turn pointing the finger at Irish people. Also the op seems to be labouring under the impression that the law does in fact protect people as long as they are aware of it.

I don't think it was a u-turn at all. It was a statement that it is not just forinjers who exploit people, that Irish nationals can be just as guilty.

As for the law protecting people - this man was exploited, he had to go and seek redress himself - the law having failed to 'protect' him. He has been waiting since 2009 to have his case heard. ALL he was granted was his backpay - pay he was deprived off. He is being given (if he ever gets it) the money that is legally his - that's it.
Has any criminal action been taken against his employer in that two year period?

The law should not just protect - it should also punish the guilty. But it seems that we have laws that can send people to jail for not having a TV or a dog licence but not to protect people from exploitation by sending their exploiters to jail.

Bannasidhe · 30-01-2012 05:35PM

Morlar wrote: »

You wont find Irish people working for 1.4k pa in order to retain residency in the state, so nationality is a factor in how this scam is operating.

If Pakistani (for example) workers are moving here on work permits tied to one job (in the same way Irish people move to Australia on a work permit tied to one employer for x amount of years, say for example 4 years), then that is usually on the basis that that employer could not find a suitable Irish person for the role.

If the guest worker then discovers the job is illegitimate then they should report that immediately. Failure on their part to do so, and the decision to continue working at those rates for years on end, (until they have completed their mandatory tied to one employer condition) should not then make Irish taxpayers liable for years of salary backlog. imo.

This is another one of those 'don't blame anyone - it's the system, man' stories. Workers who come here on those permits ought to be more stringently checked, to ensure that the job really is one which an Irish person is unable to do. If that is the case the job and salary should be part of the residency permit and checked regularly.

But they are not being checked - that is a failure of the law.

As for 'If the guest worker then discovers the job is illegitimate then they should report that immediately' this particular worker should maybe have done this on his annual day off - oh, but everything is closed on that particular day.

It seems to me you are twisting this and are intent on blaming the victims.

Doc Ruby · 30-01-2012 05:35PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I don't think it was a u-turn at all. It was a statement that it is not just forinjers who exploit people, that Irish nationals can be just as guilty.

But sure what, read the rest of the post - I've listed numerous cases of employee abuse by Irish people I'm personally aware of. I dislike immediate characterisations of that nature though, this kind of abuse knows no national boundaries, and there are ample other cases similar to it again just involving foreign nationals.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As for the law protecting people - this man was exploited, he had to go and seek redress himself - the law having failed to 'protect' him.

I didn't say the law protected him adequately, but the op seems to think it would have if he was Irish.

hatrickpatrick · 30-01-2012 05:40PM

HappyHouseWife wrote: »

Jeez, I am so sick and tired of people in this country bashing their own nation at every opportunity. Give it a f**kin' rest.

As one of the regular naysayers, I'd like to put forward the idea that we're not bashing the country itself, but how it is run.
Ireland is a beautiful and incredible place, I hardly ever even see anyone denying that. But to analogize it a little, imagine the world's most incredible 5 star holiday resort, with utterly incompetent and corrupt management who make your stay in the resort a living nightmare. Doesn't matter how great the place, the food, the weather and the locals are if the people running the hotel are rude and incompetent people who take every opportunity to overcharge your bill, misrepresent the state of the room you're going to stay in, and ban you from doing perfectly harmless things in your own room whilst allowing the thieves who regularly break in to people's rooms and steal things, to get away scott free.

Ireland, the country, rocks. Its management though? Totally ruins the experience.

Bannasidhe · 30-01-2012 05:44PM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

But sure what, read the rest of the post - I've listed numerous cases of employee abuse by Irish people I'm personally aware of. I dislike immediate characterisations of that nature though, this kind of abuse knows no national boundaries, and there are ample other cases similar to it again just involving foreign nationals.

I didn't say the law protected him adequately, but the op seems to think it would have if he was Irish.

I was responding to your comment re: 'Fascinating how the op managed to turn a Pakistani worker abuse problem into an Irish one though.' by saying it is an Irish problem because it happened in Ireland. It is not a Pakistani worker abuse problem because it did not happen in Pakistan. It is the abuse of a Pakistani worker by a Pakistani where the exploiter will not be prosecuted as Irish law does not have legislation to allow this to happen.

It is harder for Irish people to be exploited in this way - but I'm sure I read a thread recently where Irish people were discussing the amount of unpaid overtime they were routinely expected to carry out - in some cases up to 20 hours p.w - so people can be expected to work 50% extra hours for no pay. That is also exploitation - and perfectly legal.

Paparazzo · 30-01-2012 05:46PM

CashMoney wrote: »

Funny enough, the food in Poppadom was never the same since this guy (the slave) left. Poppadom was awesome for its first few years but gradually deteriorated. Himalaya is OK but are they still offering those awful dried out microwaved poppadoms?

Yeah, that's the problem with Himalaya, the poppadoms are woeful! We put them straight into the bin if we get a takeaway from there. And it's collection only.
Himalaya is a bog standard indian, but it's a good one. Chicken is always cooked perfectly. In Poppadom the meat can be tough, like it's been well overcooked.

Morlar · 30-01-2012 05:46PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

But they are not being checked - that is a failure of the law.

As for 'If the guest worker then discovers the job is illegitimate then they should report that immediately' this particular worker should maybe have done this on his annual day off - oh, but everything is closed on that particular day.

It seems to me you are twisting this and are intent on blaming the victims.

Not at all.

I just don't want taxpayers to get stung for it.

Doc Ruby · 30-01-2012 05:46PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I was responding to your comment re: 'Fascinating how the op managed to turn a Pakistani worker abuse problem into an Irish one though.' by saying it is an Irish problem because it happened in Ireland.

I can read your comments just fine, now do us a favour and read mine.

Doc Ruby · 30-01-2012 05:49PM

Morlar wrote: »

Not at all.

I just don't want taxpayers to get stung for it.

The taxpayers wouldn't get stung for it, if yerman Hussein skips the country his business would be dissolved and the assets divided up amongst the people he owes money to, including the chef. Whether or not the value of the assets would come to enough to cover all debts is a different question. This would involve bankruptcy proceedings which he will be liable for a spell in prison if he doesn't attend.

The chef might literally end up owning the joint.

Bannasidhe · 30-01-2012 05:50PM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I can read your comments just fine, now do us a favour and read mine.

I did read yours and I am responding to one particular comment you made. There's no law against that either.

Chuck Stone · 30-01-2012 06:01PM

Does anyone else think that the Chef is a bit of a donkey for putting up with such crap? How the hell did he not understand he was being shafted?

Morlar · 30-01-2012 06:07PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Does anyone else think that the Chef is a bit of a donkey for putting up with such crap? How the hell did he not understand he was being shafted?

The only reason I can think of is he was here on a permit where he is tied to that employer for x amount of years. No job = no permit.

If he had reported it he would have then lost his permit. I don't believe he just 'was not aware' or 'did not have a single chance to report it during all those years'.

€91,000 compensation in Dublin "slavery" case

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