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Seached by the cops last night

135

Comments

  • #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    irishh_bob wrote: »
    geeby probably believed that iraq had WMD,s aswell , cant help but wonder what its like to live in a world where power never acts innapropriatley

    What do you and your chip think were possible inappropriate acts from this situation?
    I live in a sadder world, where human rights lawyers have the power.

    When I run the world, all babies will be finger-printed, microchipped and DNA tested at birth.


  • #63
    almighty1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭almighty1


    10kdays wrote: »
    This thread makes embarrassing reading. Are we not all equal in the eyes of the law?

    If jesus was a passenger in a car; no tail lights out, no erratic driving etc, and the guards pull the car over:

    Does Jesus have to show id if asked or even give his name and address verbally?

    Do the Guards have to explain the reason for pulling the vehicle over?

    Can the Guards ask details of the passengers previous and next places of stay?

    If Jesus refuses to give any information what so ever and the guards have not seen anything suspicious does Jesus even have to get out of the vehicle?

    I do not want to hear about manners, politeness, or how to keep the Guards on-side. I want to know what jesus would HAVE to do and what the Guards could legally do.

    Jesus?
    Sorry but whatever point you are trying to make is totally lost on me.


  • #64
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What do you and your chip think were possible inappropriate acts from this situation?
    I live in a sadder world, where human rights lawyers have the power.

    When I run the world, all babies will be finger-printed, microchipped and DNA tested at birth.

    you can finger print my family and chip them , right after you wrestle my you know what from my cold dead hands


  • #65
    Ayla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Ayla


    The Jesus analogy was a fair one...if someone's genuinely innocent why does s/he have to surrender their personal rights without being given a reason why? I know my legal knowledge isn't extensive, but that seems like it goes against some rule somewhere :rolleyes:


  • #66
    benway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭benway


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I live in a sadder world, where human rights lawyers have the power.
    Better that than a police state. I refer you to Falangist Spain, Pinochet's Chile, Argentina under Videla ... and, of course, Nazi Germany.

    No pesky human rights lawyers there.


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  • #67
    10kdays
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 ✭10kdays


    almighty1 wrote: »
    Jesus?
    Sorry but whatever point you are trying to make is totally lost on me.

    Whatever point im trying to make is in the very first line. Im more concerned with actual answers to the questions, however.


  • #68
    lifeandtimes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Great story. I'm sure every Garda in the country is devastated.



    They do not need to explain their suspicion to you. They need only make the demand.



    In relation to road traffic matters your name, address and date of birth can be demanded. Your licence can also be demanded.

    I like how you say demanded...is that demand a request or an order?


  • #69
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    benway wrote: »
    Better that than a police state. I refer you to Falangist Spain, Pinochet's Chile, Argentina under Videla ... and, of course, Nazi Germany.

    No pesky human rights lawyers there.

    geeby trusts all police with his life


  • #70
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There are two types of people in this world. Those who have nothing to hide, happy to help the cops (in this situation) so that they may get on and protect them. Then those that have past dealings and/or have something to hide.

    That's one simple view of the world you have, Sir. I'm not trying to insult you and as I said before I'll judge a Garda by his/her personality and most of them are fairly sound but by god some of them are so ignorant and sneaky its shocking, The Gardai need crime just like a doctor needs patients so if anyone thinks helping the Gardaí will help stomp out crime then you are mistaken, Lots of repeat offenders are giving information on other crimes to the Gardaí and getting help in court for it, Reduced sentences, Strike outs etc.


  • #71
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    charlemont wrote: »
    That's one simple view of the world you have, Sir. I'm not trying to insult you and as I said before I'll judge a Garda by his/her personality and most of them are fairly sound but by god some of them are so ignorant and sneaky its shocking, The Gardai need crime just like a doctor needs patients so if anyone thinks helping the Gardaí will help stomp out crime then you are mistaken, Lots of repeat offenders are giving information on other crimes to the Gardaí and getting help in court for it, Reduced sentences, Strike outs etc.

    +1

    a common sense attitude there , anyone familiar with an garda siochanna knows that it is riddled with politics in how it opperates


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  • #72
    Ayla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Ayla


    Whew, back to the *point*:

    Can anyone definitively provide the legislative proof that a member of the guardi can stop someone & ask for their personal information without disclosing their reasoning for doing so?

    Yes, I know the guardi are hardly going to say "I think you did x/y/z, may I see your ID to make sure you're the person I think you are", but do they have the legal right to simply demand information from joe public just because they feel like it or need to look busy?


  • #73
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    lifeandtimes wrote: »
    I like how you say demanded...is that demand a request or an order?

    an order
    irishh_bob wrote: »
    +1

    a common sense attitude there , anyone familiar with an garda siochanna knows that it is riddled with politics in how it opperates

    Isn't everything?


  • #74
    Wile E. Coyote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭Wile E. Coyote


    For those who think the Guards were in the wrong, based purely on the info the OP has given, ie. house he had just left was about to be raided for whatever reason, can you talk us through how you think the Guards should have dealt with him?


  • #75
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Ayla wrote: »
    Whew, back to the *point*:

    Can anyone definitively provide the legislative proof that a member of the guardi can stop someone & ask for their personal information without disclosing their reasoning for doing so?

    Yes, I know the guardi are hardly going to say "I think you did x/y/z, may I see your ID to make sure you're the person I think you are", but do they have the legal right to simply demand information from joe public just because they feel like it or need to look busy?

    No. They can ask you anything but there is only certain stuff they can demand.


  • #76
    benway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭benway


    MagicSean wrote: »
    an order
    Nope. It's a request. You have an absolute right to not answer all/any questions, but you may be arrested and there may be other adverse consequences depending on whether it's an arrestable offence or based on the particular legislation, and in certain instances inferences may be drawn from such silence.

    It's Courts that make Orders, thankfully, not the Gardaí.


  • #77
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    benway wrote: »
    Nope. It's a request. You have an absolute right to not answer all/any questions, but you may be arrested and there may be other adverse consequences depending on whether it's an arrestable offence or based on the particular legislation, and in certain instances inferences may be drawn from such silence.

    No. The demand to produce a licence and the demand for your name, address and date of birth under the road traffic act is an order. Failure to comply is an offence. Much the same as a demand for a breath sample.


  • #78
    10kdays
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 ✭10kdays


    MagicSean wrote: »
    No. The demand to produce a licence and the demand for your name, address and date of birth under the road traffic act is an order. Failure to comply is an offence. Much the same as a demand for a breath sample.

    We are talking about a passenger in the vehicle here. Is this still correct?


  • #79
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    10kdays wrote: »
    We are talking about a passenger in the vehicle here. Is this still correct?

    No. The post I replied to was in relation to the driver.


  • #80
    benway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭benway


    Soz, my explanation crossed with your rebuttal there MS.

    Still, point stands, a Garda can charge you with failing to provide details etc, but it's a Court that makes the Order.


  • #81
    Corruptable
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 317 ✭✭Corruptable


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There are two types of people in this world. Those who have nothing to hide, happy to help the cops (in this situation) so that they may get on and protect them. Then those that have past dealings and/or have something to hide.
    In all fairness that's not true, but it sometimes appears to be a concept which many gardai seem to approach a situation with in mind.

    There are people out there, a few, who simply wish to utlilise their rights and don't have anything against gardai but, as you can see from previous threads here and complaints to the office of the Ombudsman, some members of the gardai seem to take offence to that where it is clearly not intended. I don't think it's unreasonable that things are explained to people (i.e.: the basis on which they are stopped) depending on the circumstances. It doesn't take that long or seem that onerous to explain your opinion, in fact, generally its a requirement in communicating anything which is likely to be contentious.

    No where does this be more evident than in the interactions which people speak of having with gardai in this country, and the interactions which people have with the PSNI or UK Police. Just look at a episode of Road Wars or one of those shows to see the difference and how to go about things with a bit of tact.

    Of course there are individuals who go out of their way to make things difficult, and it is only right that where identified then a more robust approach should be taken.


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  • #82
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    benway wrote: »
    Soz, my explanation crossed with your rebuttal there MS.

    Still, point stands, a Garda can charge you with failing to provide details etc, but it's a Court that makes the Order.

    The Garda makes a demand. I said that. The poster I was replying to did not understand the term demand so I used the word order to help them understand that you are legally obliged to comply. If you want to argue the semantics of legal terminology might I suggest you do so with your "well known SC" friend?


  • #83
    jimstir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 ✭jimstir


    You said "u think they raided the house U had come from" . . . . . Did they definately raid it? Yes or No


  • #84
    nino1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭nino1


    10kdays wrote: »
    This thread makes embarrassing reading.
    .

    It didn't make for embarrassing reading until you started bringing Jesus into it!

    That is the most ridiculous point I've ever heard!

    To the OP, move on with your life and get over it. You were asked for i.d. So what?

    If this is all you have to be worried about you are lucky


  • #85
    BhoscaCapall
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭BhoscaCapall


    Wile E. Coyote wrote: »
    For those who think the Guards were in the wrong, based purely on the info the OP has given, ie. house he had just left was about to be raided for whatever reason, can you talk us through how you think the Guards should have dealt with him?
    "Hi there, my name is Garda ____ and I need to search you under the Misuse of Drugs Act, could step out of the vehicle please"

    They are the ones inconveniencing me, I am just getting about my life within the terms of the law. The onus is on them to be polite. They can't even play the "for the greater good" card, because they are the DS and they do nothing but endanger the lives of millions of people by enforcing their nonsense legislation. Sanctimonious tossers who think harassing some fella because he enjoys a smoke at home is actually a benefit to the world.

    What confused me the most was their reaction when I said I didn't know my mate's address. I've been to this house loads, doesn't mean I know the address. There's no obvious number on the house (none I remember seeing at least). I'm not a sat-nav, I don't need the address to find the place. It's not like I told them I'd just been to Tír na nÓg, I told them the name of the estate, surely they could pool their braincells together and match it to the address they had. Although they had the wrong house anyway, so they probably had the wrong estate too.


  • #86
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Corruptable wrote: »
    In all fairness that's not true, but it sometimes appears to be a concept which many gardai seem to approach a situation with in mind.

    There are people out there, a few, who simply wish to utlilise their rights and don't have anything against gardai but, as you can see from previous threads here and complaints to the office of the Ombudsman, some members of the gardai seem to take offence to that where it is clearly not intended. I don't think it's unreasonable that things are explained to people (i.e.: the basis on which they are stopped) depending on the circumstances. It doesn't take that long or seem that onerous to explain your opinion, in fact, generally its a requirement in communicating anything which is likely to be contentious.

    No where does this be more evident than in the interactions which people speak of having with gardai in this country, and the interactions which people have with the PSNI or UK Police. Just look at a episode of Road Wars or one of those shows to see the difference and how to go about things with a bit of tact.

    Of course there are individuals who go out of their way to make things difficult, and it is only right that where identified then a more robust approach should be taken.

    You'd be better off comparing it to Coppers. It's much more realistic than Road Wars.


  • #87
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    BhoscaCapall wrote: »
    "Hi there, my name is Garda ____ and I need to search you under the Misuse of Drugs Act, could step out of the vehicle please"

    They are the ones inconveniencing me, I am just getting about my life within the terms of the law. The onus is on them to be polite. They can't even play the "for the greater good" card, because they are the DS and they do nothing but endanger the lives of millions of people by enforcing their nonsense legislation. Sanctimonious tossers who think harassing some fella because he enjoys a smoke at home is actually a benefit to the world.

    What confused me the most was their reaction when I said I didn't know my mate's address. I've been to this house loads, doesn't mean I know the address. There's no obvious number on the house (none I remember seeing at least). I'm not a sat-nav, I don't need the address to find the place. It's not like I told them I'd just been to Tír na nÓg, I told them the name of the estate, surely they could pool their braincells together and match it to the address they had. Although they had the wrong house anyway, so they probably had the wrong estate too.

    Just so we are clear here. Did they identify themselves as drug squad or did you just assume it? Did they actually search your friends house or someone elses? Did they search it under a drugs warrant or is this an assumption too?


  • #88
    BhoscaCapall
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭BhoscaCapall


    Corruptable wrote: »
    No where does this be more evident than in the interactions which people speak of having with gardai in this country, and the interactions which people have with the PSNI or UK Police. Just look at a episode of Road Wars or one of those shows to see the difference and how to go about things with a bit of tact.
    In fairness the PSNI make the Gaurds look like saints. They are one of the most detestable, corrupt and inhumane police forces I've ever witnessed.

    The nature of the job means it is going to attract a certain type of person. That is why you'll find that complaints levelled against them are consistent regardless of the force or country.


  • #89
    benway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭benway


    Ah here, don't be so touchy. SC is a colleague, not exactly a friend, and it is a true story in so far as I'm aware - it's certainly what he told me more or less verbatim.

    I think anyone who's spent enough time around the Courts will have seen enough botched prosecutions and investigations to have a certain ... circumspection ... towards the Gardaí, can imagine what 20 years on the bench would have done to you. I thought it was a good story ... and tbh I still do.

    Back on topic, it's not semantics, it's a fundamental separation of powers point - this is legal discussion, is it not? A Garda doesn't have the authority to order me to do much - where I refuse, it's up to the Court to back the request with a sanction.


  • #90
    BhoscaCapall
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭BhoscaCapall


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Just so we are clear here. Did they identify themselves as drug squad or did you just assume it? Did they actually search your friends house or someone elses? Did they search it under a drugs warrant or is this an assumption too?
    I don't really know anything about the house search, I haven't spoken to the guys who live there since I left last night. Given their utter incompetence, I would hope for their sake that they aren't actually a specialised drug unit.

    Before leaving, and presumably in place of an apology, they warned me not to go back to the house lest I be harassed again for not committing any crimes.

    Makes me wonder how evil drug dealers must be, if this is the state of the 'good guys' :rolleyes:


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  • #91
    10kdays
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 ✭10kdays


    If I had used the name Nino1 rather than Jesus, would you be able to understand it a little better?

    As for "get over it and move on"
    Are you asking for the public to overlook (possible) illegal actions performed by members of the Gardai?

    The OP has come here to figure out if he was within his rights during an exchange with the Gardai last night. I think, in lieu of having a solicitor on retainer, boards should be a decent place to get this type of information. Some of the replies in this thread have been ridiculous.
    nino1 wrote: »
    It didn't make for embarrassing reading until you started bringing Jesus into it!

    That is the most ridiculous point I've ever heard!

    To the OP, move on with your life and get over it. You were asked for i.d. So what?

    If this is all you have to be worried about you are lucky


This discussion has been closed.
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