Should differently able people have children?

theg81der · 26-01-2012 10:45AM #1

Hi All

Being pregnant I`m watching one born every minute religiously. Just watching Wednesdays episode now and theres a clearly mentally disabled lady having a baby - she`s married and her hubbys there. I honestly feel sick, its just not right. Obviously completely not talking about physical disabilities just in case anyone thinks this. She seems mentally maybe 10/11 if that.

I have a mentally disabled relative who I help care for and her becoming pregnant is our biggest fear.

What do you think? Am I wrong? Am I un-PC?

Mr Benevolent · 26-01-2012 10:47AM

If she's legally able to get married she's able to have a baby. What makes it wrong, btw?

Max Power1 · 26-01-2012 10:52AM

theg81der wrote: »

Hi All

Being pregnant I`m watching one born every minute religiously. Just watching Wednesdays episode now and theres a clearly mentally disabled lady having a baby - she`s married and her hubbys there. I honestly feel sick, its just not right. Obviously completely not talking about physical disabilities just in case anyone thinks this. She seems mentally maybe 10/11 if that.

I have a mentally disabled relative who I help care for and her becoming pregnant is our biggest fear.

What do you think? Am I wrong? Am I un-PC?

Un PC? Yes

Wrong - Totally not wrong IMO

stupidusername · 26-01-2012 10:54AM

It would probably depend on the type of disability,but tbh it sounds wrong. Not out of anything else but concern for her. And then of course the baby.can she take care of a baby? Can she even take care of herself?

Guill · 26-01-2012 10:54AM

theg81der wrote: »

Hi All

Being pregnant I`m watching one born every minute religiously. Just watching Wednesdays episode now and theres a clearly mentally disabled lady having a baby - she`s married and her hubbys there. I honestly feel sick, its just not right. Obviously completely not talking about physical disabilities just in case anyone thinks this. She seems mentally maybe 10/11 if that.

I have a mentally disabled relative who I help care for and her becoming pregnant is our biggest fear.

What do you think? Am I wrong? Am I un-PC?

:eek:

Are we saying that all mental disabilities are equal?

im invisible · 26-01-2012 10:54AM

Im double jointed, does that make me differently abled?

mikemac1 · 26-01-2012 10:56AM

When I was a lad we said handicapped

Then it was disabled

Now it's differently abled it seems

Chuck Stone · 26-01-2012 10:58AM

As long as zee kinder has gut genetic heritage zen I cannot see vhat ze problem is.

theg81der · 26-01-2012 11:02AM

Guill wrote: »

:eek:

Are we saying that all mental disabilities are equal?

God no! My relative is clearly not capable of consent, this lady is more capable but just about, just something about it turns my stomach, it just seems wrong. Like if you saw a 10 year old in labour.

ElleEm · 26-01-2012 11:03AM

I saw a few minutes of the show last night and that woman seemed more about 6/7 cognitively . One thing is for sure, that baby will be so loved.

With added supports, most disabled People could successfully raise children.

Zulu · 26-01-2012 11:04AM

How very dare you.

El Weirdo · 26-01-2012 11:06AM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

As long as zee kinder has gut genetic heritage zen I cannot see vhat ze problem is.

Nicely slipped in there.;)

theg81der · 26-01-2012 11:07AM

ElleEm wrote: »

I saw a few minutes of the show last night and that woman seemed more about 6/7 cognitively . One thing is for sure, that baby will be so loved.

With added supports, most disabled People could successfully raise children.

Are you serious? How can it be a good thing? Is a 6/7 year old capable of consent?

mikemac1 · 26-01-2012 11:08AM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

As long as zee kinder has gut genetic heritage zen I cannot see vhat ze problem is.

The USA were leaders and very enthusiastic when it came to eugenics back then

Don't single out one country

newbie2 · 26-01-2012 11:09AM

That lady became disabled after a RTA when she was young. She is perfectly able to communicate her wishes and have a proper conversation with anyone she interacts with. The decision to have a baby was probably a difficult one which herself and her husband discussed. Her husband took 3 months off work to assist her after the birth and they are planning to get a mothers assistant in too. The NHS is a lot better than our Health system and they will be both looked after and given any assistance they need.
She seemed very loving and the midwives had no concern of her parenting abilities.

IMO you can feel any way you like, but preventing people with mental difficulties/dissabilities having children is akin to 1930's central Europe.

Seachmall · 26-01-2012 11:11AM

mikemac1 wrote: »

The USA were leaders and very enthusiastic when it came to eugenics back then

Don't single out one country

I do believe it was a subtle reference to a common internet joke.

I could be wrong, made me lol anyway.

El Weirdo · 26-01-2012 11:14AM

Seachmall wrote: »

I do believe it was a subtle reference to a common internet joke.

I could be wrong, made me lol anyway.

That's what I got, anyway.

stupidusername · 26-01-2012 11:14AM

It's fine saying the child will be loved,and the father took time off but all that means shag all if she cannot take care of the baby by herself. The assistant they'll get,how many hours a week is she assigned? If something happened the husband could she manage by herself? These are valid concerns for anyone having children,and should be considered bigger concerns for a mother with a mental disability

Stiffler2 · 26-01-2012 12:40PM

No

Mink · 26-01-2012 01:09PM

I don't think your un-PC theg81der, it's a valid concern. I saw that show & from what I saw, my feeling is she'll be okay.

The hubby is all there mentally (as far as I could tell) & works ten mins away. I think the fact that he was off for 2-3 mths after the birth, he would then be in a position to judge how much she can care for the baby on her own and then organise mother assistants hours from there. He would be able to observe her all day during those weeks and see how she does. It's not like they are throwing her in the deep end and hoping for the best.

I think in the case of that show, there is enough of a support system there that it will work out fine. But I think if it were to come up with another mentally disabled person, it should be looked at on a case by case basis. There are so many varying degrees of disability that it would be so hard to judge what's a danger and what's not.

If there was a mentally disabled person living on their own and didn't have a full time carer (such as a partner who was all there mentally) then I think it would be very risky as they don't have that full time live-in support system.

And in line with what a poster said earlier, the NHS sure looks way better!!! Just the fact that they have birthing pool rooms in the hospital and the option is even there for mothers is amazing... sorry off topic!

I Heart Internet · 26-01-2012 01:19PM

I watched this show and certainly had concerns about how things would work out for them. Having watched it, I think:

1) They loved each other as any couple would - more than most - and were expressive about loving and caring for each other. They had been together 25 years.
2) They were very aware that it would be difficult to look after the baby. The lady was VERY aware of her own limitations - forgetfullness, physical handicaps, etc. She seemed very concerned "they" would take the baby off her.
3) The husband was a shy but sensible guy and knew he had a back up plan if his wife couldn't handle it. He was very clear that any assistance would "help her look after our baby - NOT look after the baby for her.
4) They had a lovely home and he had a full time job.

So, in the end I felt that the baby would be loved and looked after properly. I did feel a small bit sad for the husband - just because a lot of pressure was, naturally, on him to look out for both of them. I hope they have good family and friends but we weren't told about this. They both seemed smitten by their little girl.

So best of luck to them. No two cases would be the same I'd say but these two people seemed to be good eggs and would make good parents despite her disabilities.

I couldn't help think they were more prepared and better suited to parenthood than the txting, 18 y/o little girl who was in last week and her absent/idiot inseminator (it seemed like they they would have a problem picking each other out in a crowd tbh).

TheZohanS · 26-01-2012 01:30PM

theg81der wrote: »

Hi All

Being pregnant I`m watching one born every minute religiously. Just watching Wednesdays episode now and theres a clearly mentally disabled lady having a baby - she`s married and her hubbys there. I honestly feel sick, its just not right. Obviously completely not talking about physical disabilities just in case anyone thinks this. She seems mentally maybe 10/11 if that.

I have a mentally disabled relative who I help care for and her becoming pregnant is our biggest fear.

What do you think? Am I wrong? Am I un-PC?

This: (NSFW)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCJ4KfePYQU

Vanolder · 26-01-2012 01:35PM

There are degrees of disability , but I don't think people with severe mental disabilities should. It's not fair on the child , and who foots the bill only the tax payer in order for home help to be provided.

I was thinking about this issue, or at least the whole issue of caring for those that have disabilities recently... Now it was only a thought experiment, not my feelings, but is caring for people with physical and mental disabilities a drain on our society?

I was thinking about the animal world, and how survival of the fittest sustains and drives this world on and then I got to us and how out of sync we are with the natural world.

When you think of the time and money involved in caring and which could be used else where , and the already over populated world we live in, how exactly does caring for the disabled advance us as a species?

Again, just a thought experiment. Before I get an onslaught of abuse.

seamus · 26-01-2012 01:43PM

Vanolder wrote: »

There are degrees of disability , but I don't think people with severe mental disabilities should. It's not fair on the child , and who foots the bill only the tax payer in order for home help to be provided.

So where do you draw the line between "severe" and "mild" mental disability? How do perform a battery of tests and boil them down a "parental suitability score" which determines whether someone should be allowed to have a child?

And quite logically if you were apply criteria for child-rearing to disabled people, you would apply it to perfectly able people too. The woman on that programme last night was far more suitable to be a mother than many of the fully-able scrotebags you see dropping future wasters into the world.

When you think of the time and money involved in caring and which could be used else where , and the already over populated world we live in, how exactly does caring for the disabled advance us as a species?

How exactly does working nine to five in an office advance us as a species? How does paying the dole advance us as a species?

How do you define a disabled person as being a "drain on the species". Disabled doesn't mean "incapable of anything", it's simply a limitation which exists on that person. We all have limitations, every single one of us. Disabled people are just more severely limited than the rest of us. But that doesn't mean they're incapable of contributing equally to society.

I Heart Internet · 26-01-2012 01:46PM

Vanolder wrote: »

There are degrees of disability , but I don't think people with severe mental disabilities should. It's not fair on the child , and who foots the bill only the tax payer in order for home help to be provided.

I was thinking about this issue, or at least the whole issue of caring for those that have disabilities recently... Now it was only a thought experiment, not my feelings, but is caring for people with physical and mental disabilities a drain on our society?

I was thinking about the animal world, and how survival of the fittest sustains and drives this world on and then I got to us and how out of sync we are with the natural world.

When you think of the time and money involved in caring and which could be used else where , and the already over populated world we live in, how exactly does caring for the disabled advance us as a species?

Again, just a thought experiment. Before I get an onslaught of abuse.

Can I stop you right there? You're about two posts away from being called a this guy.

I see that you're playing devil's advocate here though - fair play. I think the society that would not look after its weakest members is not a society in which one would enjoy living in for long. I'm sure there are examples where we don't do this already and I think these examples are rightly perceived as injustices.

flanders1979 · 26-01-2012 04:33PM

Its a bit of a risk. Anyone remember that terrible case in Wexford a few years back. I hate to draw comparison but nobody would like to see a repeat of that.

John Doe1 · 26-01-2012 04:36PM

as long as they give birth in dachau.............I hear they have excellent midwives:)

fedor.2. · 26-01-2012 04:56PM

TheZohan wrote: »

This: (NSFW)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCJ4KfePYQU

Oh god:eek:

Peanut2011 · 26-01-2012 05:04PM

OP,

After reading your post I could not help but post back. You are passing the judgement on someone who appears to have difficulties in speaking. You have no idea how mentally capable she is.

From what I have seen, she has no problems getting her message across. Might not be as quick as you might be but that does not say she won't be able to look after the child.

stupidusername wrote: »

It's fine saying the child will be loved,and the father took time off but all that means shag all if she cannot take care of the baby by herself. The assistant they'll get,how many hours a week is she assigned? If something happened the husband could she manage by herself? These are valid concerns for anyone having children,and should be considered bigger concerns for a mother with a mental disability

Oh boy, where do I start here! So you are saying that she should not have a child just cos she can't manage it herself? "What if something happened to the husband?"

HANG on! Are you saying than that single parents also should not be allowed?? What if something happens to that ONE parent?

If she was on her own having this baby I would say she would need to think hard if she could do everything herself, but you have 2 parents here who are more than willing to bend backwards to have this child and would do anything they could for it.

I would say they will probably give more to that child than many of the parents out there. How many times we see people who are proper unfit to have kids, just cos they are "healthy" in your eyes it seems it's ok to have the kids.

If anyone could show how this child would be in any more of a danger than any other family I could understand the reactions. There is no proof they can't handle this.

I would even say they should be an example of people who are so determined to live the lives to the full and after all they have gone trough for the past 20 years they are still together and never gave up hope!

They are doing all they can to ensure this child will be looked after!

What is wrong with the society today?? People like this are judged like they are for what reason??

I am very disappointed to see how people are very quick to jump to judging them. How many children are born every year across the world to alcoholics, drug addicts and people who are generally not fit to look after them, but hey these people appear "normal" and no one even looks at them twice. How many kids are abused in their own homes because of the parents who would not do half as much as these are doing to ensure the child gets all the care it needs, but yet, no one ever finds out as again they appear "normal" in public.

I really hope people can step back and try to put themselves in the other peoples shoes before passing judgement.

What if you had a child tomorrow and was in the car accident that left you disabled in some way shortly afterwards. Would you say you are unfit to look after the child even if your husband could and ask social services to take the child away??

Noopti · 26-01-2012 05:10PM

theg81der wrote: »

Hi All

Being pregnant I`m watching one born every minute religiously. Just watching Wednesdays episode now and theres a clearly mentally disabled lady having a baby - she`s married and her hubbys there. I honestly feel sick, its just not right. Obviously completely not talking about physical disabilities just in case anyone thinks this. She seems mentally maybe 10/11 if that.

I have a mentally disabled relative who I help care for and her becoming pregnant is our biggest fear.

What do you think? Am I wrong? Am I un-PC?

You should maybe consider getting all the facts before passing judgement on someone you saw on a TV programme having a baby. You have no idea of her mental age, you have no idea of her capabilities. Did you even watch the show to its conclusion? She seemed to be doing a pretty good job of looking after the baby to me, so what if she requires some assistance.

What is to stop me judging you unable to care for your future baby? Do you earn enough money? Are you intelligent enough to make proper decisions for it? Can you assure a good quality of life for your child forever? Will you always make the right decisions for your child?

I won't do that, and I suggest you reserve your judgement of the woman on that show before deciding to feel sick because she is having a baby.

hightower1 · 26-01-2012 05:25PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

When I was a lad we said handicapped

Then it was disabled

Now it's differently abled it seems

Im all for being sensitive about handicapped people but this is going too far, stating the average handicapped person is differently abled as compared to the average able bodied person (by default being the majority) is simply gramatically incorrect. By and large comparing the physical abilities of the average handicapped person to the abilities of the average abled bodied person we will find that the abled bodied person can perform all the physical tasks a handicapped person can do and more meaning that gramaticaly .... the handicapped average is not "differently" abled but in fact "dis" abled.

My brother is hadnicapped and I would take more offence to someone saying he is "differenctly abled" as opposed to having a handicap. Dont sugar coat a physical disability and take away a sense of achievemnt they may have by beating any physical hadnicap by undermining that with flowery names like "differently abled" , give people who overcome a handicap the credit they diserve.

Should differently able people have children?

Comments