Arsenal Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2011/2012

tayto lover · 23-01-2012 05:56PM

jmayo wrote: »

I think the point people make when they say this is that he didn't need to worry about the Arsenal defense when he took over.
That defense could manage itself and were as good as rock solid.
Since then he has created one rock solid defense.

Yes but he hasn't won a trophy now in how many years ?
Not alone that, his teams look weak and not able to win a trophy even against a team that was on course for relegation.

No his downfall has been his intransigence and pig headedness.
He persisted with his so called youth policy and ended up creating weak teams over the last 4/5 years, when buying in a few seasoned tough pros could have added the necessary steel.
Eventually his great young players get fed up and leave.

The last true leader the team has had was Viera.
Players who showed a bit of bottle have been in short supply at Arsenal over the last few years and that has to be down to management.
He refused to contenance buying a half decent keeper and it is only now four or five years later that one has shown up through the ranks.
Will it now be the same for full backs ?

People say he did not have the money, but ffs he has had enough to blow on some frankly dodgy players.

He no longer appears capable of motivating some players, but yet they appear on the pitch.
He has a backroom full of underperforming wastes of space which it appears can't be offloaded as no one wants them.

Good post and sums up the nutty professor very well. It has taken far too long for the penny to drop with many but yesterday seems to have helped people make up their minds. His day is done.

Marty McFly · 23-01-2012 06:02PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Good post and sums up the nutty professor very well. It has taken far too long for the penny to drop with many but yesterday seems to have helped people make up their minds. His day is done.

While I do agree and have been one of his biggest critics in recent years do you believe sacking him mid season would be the thing to do? I do think he deserves a bit more respect than that.

Sergio · 23-01-2012 06:39PM

luvbulmers01 wrote: »

While I do agree and have been one of his biggest critics in recent years do you believe sacking him mid season would be the thing to do? I do think he deserves a bit more respect than that.

I agree with your comments to a certain extent as the man has done wonders for the club in his 15 year tenure as manager but there comes a time when enough is enough and i think AWs time might be up.Its a tough game to be in managing one of the best teams in the world but im sick of hearing his excuses every week to poor performances and players not doing what there being paid to do.If managers dont get results then they get sacked simple as that,look at Neil Warnock last week for QPR.
Weve lost 3 PL games on the bounce and for a club like Arsenal that isnt good enough anymore! Time for change at the emirates me thinks :mad:

tayto lover · 23-01-2012 06:56PM

luvbulmers01 wrote: »

While I do agree and have been one of his biggest critics in recent years do you believe sacking him mid season would be the thing to do? I do think he deserves a bit more respect than that.

I don't think he will be sacked at all. He is the Board's yes-man and is making money for them, however the fans are now on his case. If he does go it will be his own decision I feel. Hope he makes it at the end of the season as I couldn't face the same again with him in charge and he seems to be losing the dressing-room now too.

tony1kenobi · 23-01-2012 08:24PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Complete clear out needed.

Board must go.
Manager needs to move on.

Things getting stale. We are so ****, it is untrue. We can't win the big games any more and have far too many average players.

That happening is very unlikely.If you want to completely clear out the team and board a far easier solution would be to support a different team.

Manchester City are probably the one to pick.

Hank Scorpio · 23-01-2012 09:07PM

Imo if Arsenal replaced the handful of players in the Arshavin Walcott Chamack Squillaci bracket and replaced them with (very) good players they'd be fine. Add to that a solid LB they'd be challenging for the title next year.

Loads of quality players in the side, players who do fight and not wastes of space like Arshavin, Kos/Mert/Verm/Woj/song/Wilshere/Ramsey/Arteta/Coq and a few others

If Wenger doesn't do a thing I see RVP gone at the end of the season, the way he looked into the empty seats are the end of the United game confirmed this for me

jordainius · 23-01-2012 09:42PM

nuxxx wrote: »

Imo if Arsenal replaced the handful of players in the Arshavin Walcott Chamack Squillaci bracket and replaced them with (very) good players they'd be fine.

While you are correct, it will be very difficult to offload the deadwood at Arsenal, most of our players are overpaid and it will be difficult to find clubs willing to match what we are paying them.

Hank Scorpio · 23-01-2012 09:46PM

jordainius wrote: »

While you are correct, it will be very difficult to offload the deadwood at Arsenal, most of our players are overpaid and it will be difficult to find clubs willing to match what we are paying them.

Yeah, just seen Arshavins on 70k a week, crazy money

tony1kenobi · 23-01-2012 09:52PM

nuxxx wrote: »

Yeah, just seen Arshavins on 70k a week, crazy money

Compared with Tevez on a quarter million a week sitting on his hole in Argentina?

greendom · 23-01-2012 09:55PM

nuxxx wrote: »

Yeah, just seen Arshavins on 70k a week, crazy money

He's not been performing well recently but he's a full international, highly regarded (well when we signed him anyway) in the supposed peak of his career. Did you really expect him to be on any less ?

Galvasean · 23-01-2012 09:59PM

greendom wrote: »

He's not been performing well recently but he's a full international, highly regarded (well when we signed him anyway) in the supposed peak of his career. Did you really expect him to be on any less ?

Also, bear in mind he took a wage cut to join Arsenal. At the time everyone was commenting on what a shrewd bit of business Wenger pulled off.

KeithAFC · 23-01-2012 10:02PM

The club just needs some of those great European nights and possibly a great FA cup run. Last truly great night we had was against Barcelona at the Emirates.

jordainius · 23-01-2012 10:08PM

I can just picture Wenger in the dressing room after that game. He was probably complimenting the team, praising them for showing "character" for getting back into the game after they went behind before half time, telling them that they were unlucky, that they played the game in the right spirit and they played the game in the right style in terms of attacking/passing etc.

Probably telling them to keep doing what they are doing, to keep the faith, keep believing in what they are doing and that the breaks will start to go their way soon.

What is required at times is for the manager to tear strips out of them, scream at them that they are a useless shower of c**ts who are not fit to wear the jersey, make sure that it matters to the players. There's no fear of failure amongst our players because they know that Wenger will have their back and he will just put his arm around them and say "there there".

Sometimes Arsenal are beaten fairly and squarely by the better team, despite putting in a good performance (like the recent defeat to Man City.) By all means, praise and defend the players after games like that. But some of Wengers post game interviews when we don't win are just embarrassing. The players put in a lazy indifferent performance and we have to watch Wenger defending them and trying to find the positives.

tayto lover · 23-01-2012 10:12PM

tony1kenobi wrote: »

Compared with Tevez on a quarter million a week sitting on his hole in Argentina?

If Arshavin was left sitting on his hole yesterday we would not have lost.

greendom · 23-01-2012 10:13PM

jordainius wrote: »

But some of Wengers post game interviews when we don't win are just embarrassing. The players put in a lazy indifferent performance and we have to watch Wenger defending them and trying to find the positives.

I really wouldn't try to compare what he says in front of the cameras to what he says behind closed doors. He will always, always protect his players in public; He's more than capable of laying into them away from the camera eye, if that's what is required.

jordainius · 23-01-2012 10:19PM

greendom wrote: »

I really wouldn't try to compare what he says in front of the cameras to what he says behind closed doors. He will always, always protect his players in public; He's more than capable of laying into them away from the camera eye, if that's what is required.

I know and accept the (very valid) private V public argument. I'd like to think that Wenger lays into them when required, but I personally just don't see it (anymore. I don't think it all matters to Wenger now as much as it did before). I'm just making conclusions based on what I see on the pitch. Sometimes, its all so very lackadaisical, I don't see that in Ferguson or Mourinho's teams, and if teams managed by Fergie and JM do put in crap performances- they tend to go out the next game and put it right. Arsenal usually wallow for several games before they snap out of it, which makes me question what exactly happens behind the scenes.

tony1kenobi · 23-01-2012 10:32PM

tayto lover wrote: »

If Arshavin was left sitting on his hole yesterday we would not have lost.

Don't talk ****e.

tayto lover · 23-01-2012 10:39PM

tony1kenobi wrote: »

Don't talk ****e.

I know we would not have lost. Felt Wenger actually s*** on the eggs bringing him on and if he felt he would change the game then why did he not take off the useless Wally ?

gosplan · 23-01-2012 11:03PM

Genuine question for the people who think Wenger should go.

When should he go?

It's a very very important detail with the obvious next question being, who should replace him?

Now I don't expect many people to have an answer to the second as readily to the first, but does anyone have an idea as to a shortlist of managers who could replace him?

For me I think we're nearing dangerous waters here. Of course, it's been sh1t lately but what are the alternatives?? For this team to compete we need a manager who can be successful in the premier league - technically there are five of them and they're at Man U, Liverpool, Madrid, PSG and Arsenal.

Now it would be silly to go on league titles alone, other managers have had success in premier league - Rafa spent loads of cash on 40 players, 3 of them really good, and ran Utd very close one year. Good in cups but won the big one with someone else's team. The main thing is he never topped United. How would he do with City and the current Spurs team up there too?

Then where are you? Hiddink, Houlier, O'Neill? It's a very very short list and bear in mind that clubs like Newcastle and Spurs have been frequently changing manager looking for the one that'll bring them up to where they want to be.

Knowing what you know now, would you swap Wenger for Villas Boas. The answer could be yes or no but it's close and this is a man who 6 months ago was touted as a revolutionary manager, the best since Mourhino hit the scene nearly 10 years ago?
Unless you're City or Chelsea and can pay any wages and offer any transfer funds, is a managerial search not just pot luck really?

People say, 'well the board will search and find the right man for the job' but what about the efforts of boards of other clubs who haven't been able to? After 20 years and 15 managers, it finally looks like Tottenham are going to finish higher in the league than us. 20 years of fluctuations, searching for managers, false dawns and money spent. I was reading earlier about how bad a reflection it supposedly is on Arsenal that their wages are so much lower than ours. 20 years! 20 years of trying and it's all clicked over the last two seasons when they found a great manager, spend a couple of hundred million and one of their half-decent squad players suddenly turned into a genius. I don't begrudge Spurs this and I realise that they're not just about finishing above Arsenal, but you can't ignore that's it's taken them decades of trying different combinations of managers and players until they've now mounted something resembling a title challenge. Why will this be so much easier for Arsenal when we ditch Wenger? Incidentally, I'm also curious to see what happens when one or two of Spurs' star players move on and Redknapp takes the England job.

That's what happens with managers: for most clubs they're the same as players. Look at Chelsea and their revolving door, now they've had some success and a few brilliant managers(and a few failures in between). However Hiddink wouldn't stay, Mourhino probably would have left but we won't know and Ancelotti was given the boot. Perhaps the last two would have had long and successful careers at Chelsea if Roman hadn't intervened but would they have come to Arsenal without the promise of an infinite transfer budget in Mourhino's case or at least the strength of the squad and recent titles in Ancelotti's?

Can we attract these people to the club? Will they be in it for the long term?

I wanted to post about our performances and the race(?) for 5th but I've been at this for too long so that'll wait.

I just wanted to get the point across to Arsenal fans that they need to be careful what they wish for. Maybe Arsne does have his best years behind him but if it's him or the unknown then it has to be him. With a settled side that's lucky in terms of injuries and a preseason that doesn't involve having the guts ripped out of the team for once, you all know that he can put us back near the top. I think that till the financial fair play and home grown player rules kick in, you have to feel that's about the best that any manager will be able to achieve.

Wenger can do it and he might fail. Other managers might be able.

Also, as regards the very first question. Anyone who's anwser is that he's lost it and should go in the summer, could you just put that in your sig instead of telling us after every point dropped.

Keep the faith!!

gosplan · 23-01-2012 11:22PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I know we would not have lost.

No you don't, you just choose to believe that's what would have happened.

tayto lover wrote: »

why did he not take off the useless Wally ?

Wenger's explained that too. It may not be true but he gave his reasons.

Galvasean · 23-01-2012 11:22PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I know we would not have lost. Felt Wenger actually s*** on the eggs bringing him on and if he felt he would change the game then why did he not take off the useless Wally ?

Did Wenger not say Ox was suffering from a muscle strain, hence why he was subbed off?

tayto lover · 23-01-2012 11:26PM

Galvasean wrote: »

Did Wenger not say Ox was suffering from a muscle strain, hence why he was subbed off?

He did indeed say that but it seemed to be news to Ox when he was asked.

MaxPower89 · 23-01-2012 11:26PM

Galvasean wrote: »

Did Wenger not say Ox was suffering from a muscle strain, hence why he was subbed off?

In fairness, I don't really buy that one...he seems to have a soft spot for the Russian, playing some part in all but 3 epl games.

tayto lover · 23-01-2012 11:29PM

gosplan wrote: »

No you don't, you just choose to believe that's what would have happened.

Wenger's explained that too. It may not be true but he gave his reasons.

I do indeed choose to believe that because we were looking more like winning than they were despite some of our players being well below par. I certainly do not think we would have lost. I also thought that Kos and Verm should have been switched because Kos is better at left back than Verm imo. Could be wrong but again don't think so.

Dercola · 23-01-2012 11:32PM

I don't for one second believe that wenger should go. And I've gotten the impression since the start of the season that he is genuinely trying to change things at the club.. I do believe his hands are tied when it comes to the transfer side of things. For example, I feel that theirs no way in hell, he'll be allowed buy a winger until Arshavin or Walcott are gone. Same story up top with Chamakh.

But god forbid, if he was to leave at the end of the season.. The only manager I can see doing his job is David Moyes

The man has done wonders at Everton with an absolute pittance to spend, and he has a great eye for a bargain. He'd suit our current board down to the ground... Even if not at Arsenal, he does deserve a chance at a bigger club..

Drexel · 23-01-2012 11:33PM

gosplan wrote: »

Genuine question for the people who think Wenger should go.

When should he go?

It's a very very important detail with the obvious next question being, who should replace him?

Now I don't expect many people to have an answer to the second as readily to the first, but does anyone have an idea as to a shortlist of managers who could replace him?

For me I think we're nearing dangerous waters here. Of course, it's been sh1t lately but what are the alternatives?? For this team to compete we need a manager who can be successful in the premier league - technically there are five of them and they're at Man U, Liverpool, Madrid, PSG and Arsenal.

Now it would be silly to go on league titles alone, other managers have had success in premier league - Rafa spent loads of cash on 40 players, 3 of them really good, and ran Utd very close one year. Good in cups but won the big one with someone else's team. The main thing is he never topped United. How would he do with City and the current Spurs team up there too?

Then where are you? Hiddink, Houlier, O'Neill? It's a very very short list and bear in mind that clubs like Newcastle and Spurs have been frequently changing manager looking for the one that'll bring them up to where they want to be.

Knowing what you know now, would you swap Wenger for Villas Boas. The answer could be yes or no but it's close and this is a man who 6 months ago was touted as a revolutionary manager, the best since Mourhino hit the scene nearly 10 years ago?
Unless you're City or Chelsea and can pay any wages and offer any transfer funds, is a managerial search not just pot luck really?

People say, 'well the board will search and find the right man for the job' but what about the efforts of boards of other clubs who haven't been able to? After 20 years and 15 managers, it finally looks like Tottenham are going to finish higher in the league than us. 20 years of fluctuations, searching for managers, false dawns and money spent. I was reading earlier about how bad a reflection it supposedly is on Arsenal that their wages are so much lower than ours. 20 years! 20 years of trying and it's all clicked over the last two seasons when they found a great manager, spend a couple of hundred million and one of their half-decent squad players suddenly turned into a genius. I don't begrudge Spurs this and I realise that they're not just about finishing above Arsenal, but you can't ignore that's it's taken them decades of trying different combinations of managers and players until they've now mounted something resembling a title challenge. Why will this be so much easier for Arsenal when we ditch Wenger? Incidentally, I'm also curious to see what happens when one or two of Spurs' star players move on and Redknapp takes the England job.

That's what happens with managers: for most clubs they're the same as players. Look at Chelsea and their revolving door, now they've had some success and a few brilliant managers(and a few failures in between). However Hiddink wouldn't stay, Mourhino probably would have left but we won't know and Ancelotti was given the boot. Perhaps the last two would have had long and successful careers at Chelsea if Roman hadn't intervened but would they have come to Arsenal without the promise of an infinite transfer budget in Mourhino's case or at least the strength of the squad and recent titles in Ancelotti's?

Can we attract these people to the club? Will they be in it for the long term?

I wanted to post about our performances and the race(?) for 5th but I've been at this for too long so that'll wait.

I just wanted to get the point across to Arsenal fans that they need to be careful what they wish for. Maybe Arsne does have his best years behind him but if it's him or the unknown then it has to be him. With a settled side that's lucky in terms of injuries and a preseason that doesn't involve having the guts ripped out of the team for once, you all know that he can put us back near the top. I think that till the financial fair play and home grown player rules kick in, you have to feel that's about the best that any manager will be able to achieve.

Wenger can do it and he might fail. Other managers might be able.

Also, as regards the very first question. Anyone who's anwser is that he's lost it and should go in the summer, could you just put that in your sig instead of telling us after every point dropped.

Keep the faith!!

Great post!

This is the problem. Replacing a manager who has been at a club for so long is next to impossible. Wenger has such a good rep that no one bar the best of the best will do, but they more then likely wouldn't come to arsenal. In my time following football properly I can't really remember any club having a manager there for as long as wenger and tryin to,replace him.

I don't want wenger to go as i feel its more of a board level problem but we shouldn't fear the unknown either. Remember the famous headline in the paper when wenger was appointed. He was relativity unknown in England at the time.

I don't really know what I am tryin to say here but arsenal won trophies before wenger and they will win them after him too.

Dercola · 23-01-2012 11:35PM

MaxPower89 wrote: »

In fairness, I don't really buy that one...he seems to have a soft spot for the Russian, playing some part in all but 3 epl games.

Only explanation is, Wenger is hoping that Arshavin throws in a few decent performances between now and July. Drive his price up a little... Here's to hoping he has a great time at the Euros with the Russians

finty · 24-01-2012 12:02AM

Was at the game yesterday. Absolutely shocked by the attitude of at least half the team yesterday. Cruising around the pitch one paced, not closing down, not getting back, not supporting in defence or attack.

Disgraceful really.

If djourou was playing for utd he'd never get a game for them again. Same for arshavin, an absolute disgrace.....but then you have to question what the hell Wenger was doing putting him on???

But the most striking thing was watching the contrast between Walcott and Alex OC.

OC started a bit nervously but came into the game and showed signs of being a real player. Always looking to do something positive with the ball, determined in the tackle.....while on the other wing, walcott.... who thinks winning throw ins is a job well done. never mind stepping out of tackles all over the shop. a pretender if there ever was one.

But sure what happens if you dont perform.......not much eh.

If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got.......

Perhaps its time Wenger laid into some of the passengers in the team in public and shook things up a bit or......

unfortunately at this stage its time he moved on himself

Soups123 · 24-01-2012 12:11AM

gosplan wrote: »

Genuine question for the people who think Wenger should go.

When should he go?

It's a very very important detail with the obvious next question being, who should replace him?

Now I don't expect many people to have an answer to the second as readily to the first, but does anyone have an idea as to a shortlist of managers who could replace him?

For me I think we're nearing dangerous waters here. Of course, it's been sh1t lately but what are the alternatives?? For this team to compete we need a manager who can be successful in the premier league - technically there are five of them and they're at Man U, Liverpool, Madrid, PSG and Arsenal.

Now it would be silly to go on league titles alone, other managers have had success in premier league - Rafa spent loads of cash on 40 players, 3 of them really good, and ran Utd very close one year. Good in cups but won the big one with someone else's team. The main thing is he never topped United. How would he do with City and the current Spurs team up there too?

Then where are you? Hiddink, Houlier, O'Neill? It's a very very short list and bear in mind that clubs like Newcastle and Spurs have been frequently changing manager looking for the one that'll bring them up to where they want to be.

Knowing what you know now, would you swap Wenger for Villas Boas. The answer could be yes or no but it's close and this is a man who 6 months ago was touted as a revolutionary manager, the best since Mourhino hit the scene nearly 10 years ago?
Unless you're City or Chelsea and can pay any wages and offer any transfer funds, is a managerial search not just pot luck really?

People say, 'well the board will search and find the right man for the job' but what about the efforts of boards of other clubs who haven't been able to? After 20 years and 15 managers, it finally looks like Tottenham are going to finish higher in the league than us. 20 years of fluctuations, searching for managers, false dawns and money spent. I was reading earlier about how bad a reflection it supposedly is on Arsenal that their wages are so much lower than ours. 20 years! 20 years of trying and it's all clicked over the last two seasons when they found a great manager, spend a couple of hundred million and one of their half-decent squad players suddenly turned into a genius. I don't begrudge Spurs this and I realise that they're not just about finishing above Arsenal, but you can't ignore that's it's taken them decades of trying different combinations of managers and players until they've now mounted something resembling a title challenge. Why will this be so much easier for Arsenal when we ditch Wenger? Incidentally, I'm also curious to see what happens when one or two of Spurs' star players move on and Redknapp takes the England job.

That's what happens with managers: for most clubs they're the same as players. Look at Chelsea and their revolving door, now they've had some success and a few brilliant managers(and a few failures in between). However Hiddink wouldn't stay, Mourhino probably would have left but we won't know and Ancelotti was given the boot. Perhaps the last two would have had long and successful careers at Chelsea if Roman hadn't intervened but would they have come to Arsenal without the promise of an infinite transfer budget in Mourhino's case or at least the strength of the squad and recent titles in Ancelotti's?

Can we attract these people to the club? Will they be in it for the long term?

I wanted to post about our performances and the race(?) for 5th but I've been at this for too long so that'll wait.

I just wanted to get the point across to Arsenal fans that they need to be careful what they wish for. Maybe Arsne does have his best years behind him but if it's him or the unknown then it has to be him. With a settled side that's lucky in terms of injuries and a preseason that doesn't involve having the guts ripped out of the team for once, you all know that he can put us back near the top. I think that till the financial fair play and home grown player rules kick in, you have to feel that's about the best that any manager will be able to achieve.

Wenger can do it and he might fail. Other managers might be able.

Also, as regards the very first question. Anyone who's anwser is that he's lost it and should go in the summer, could you just put that in your sig instead of telling us after every point dropped.

Keep the faith!!

Super post, makes sense from start to finish.

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 24-01-2012 12:38AM

tayto lover wrote: »

I do indeed choose to believe that because we were looking more like winning than they were despite some of our players being well below par. I certainly do not think we would have lost. I also thought that Kos and Verm should have been switched because Kos is better at left back than Verm imo. Could be wrong but again don't think so.

Kos is right footed. I don't see why he would have done much better than Vermaelen at left back. Has he even played there before?

Arsenal Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2011/2012

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