Disputing a speeding fine

freddublin · 25-07-2011 9:18pm #1

Hi guys,

I got done for speeding. It was way over the limit, but 7am, june bank holiday. I hadn't heard anything until today coming home from work I thought they forgot about me, 1 month and 3 weeks before receiving the fine...

And there is a mistake on the fine itself. It says the speed limit is 50, but there (on the quays beside Heuston going to town) it's 30.

Is there any way I can dispute the fine for that ? Well I know I was still over the 50 :rolleyes:

Just asking as I know in some places a single mistake on the fine cancels it...
Also do they not have a delay to send the fine?

Thank

25-07-2011 9:24pm

Pay the fine.

Stop speeding.

freddublin · 26-07-2011 8:08am

Deleted User wrote: »

Pay the fine.
Stop speeding.

Dear Kayroo,

I was asking there for some tips and not comments on my driving.

I would pay it, if only I thought it was fair. But can you explain why they are in a place and at a time there will be just a few cars?
If they are aware it's a dangerous place why don't they put ramps or a traffic light or check the speeds when there ARE cars going by...

It's just a way to collect more money from us.

By the way I'm on a motorbike and well concious of the risks I take, and there at that time they were none. Actually maybe one: being attacked by a seagull?

F

F00t13f4n · 26-07-2011 8:15am

A cousin of mine did something similar - on the ticket it said the limit was 50 instead of 60. The judge told him he was still speeding and gave him 4 penalty points and a €200 fine.

It used to be the case that if you were doing over twice the speed limit you lost your license if you got caught, so be careful if you take it further.

There are loads of locations where the speed limit is unreasonably low. Unfortunately the cop who gave you the ticket and the judge who will hear the case won't care about that, and will go by the letter of the law.

If it was me I'd pay the fine and take the points, but best of luck whatever you decide!

chicken fingers · 26-07-2011 8:23am

Yeah you should go to court and contest it (and get what you deserve...)

Magic Beans · 26-07-2011 8:27am

By your own admission you were doing in excess of 50 in a 30 zone. I would just pay the fine and not make things any worse for yourself than they have to be.

Paulw · 26-07-2011 8:40am

freddublin wrote: »

I would pay it, if only I thought it was fair.

Is the limit unfair, or is it unfair that you were caught?? By your own admission, you were speeding, hence it's fair.

freddublin wrote: »

But can you explain why they are in a place and at a time there will be just a few cars?

Speed limits are not time enforced. The speed limit is the speed limit, 24/7/365.

freddublin wrote: »

It's just a way to collect more money from us.

Yeah, sure they forced you to speed down the road. :rolleyes: Don't speed and you don't have to pay, hence they don't collect money.

So, from all you've posted, I say go for it - contest it and take it to court. The judge will love you. :rolleyes:

freddublin · 26-07-2011 8:53am

ok sure... I'll pay, the fine, the loan of the IMF, the mistakes of the politicians...
And for speeding I'll go to Wicklow, it's great fun there within the speed limits. Not too safe some times but I'll be following the law!

Pffff some of you make me desperate!

Mod
No need for that. Some posters made reasonable, helpful comments. We should all try to be civil to each other here

26-07-2011 9:20am

freddublin wrote: »

ok sure... I'll pay, the fine, the loan of the IMF, the mistakes of the politicians...
And for speeding I'll go to Wicklow, it's great fun there within the speed limits. Not too safe some times but I'll be following the law!

Pffff some of you make me desperate!

You accept that you committed the crime but you don't want to accede to the punishment because of some minor (and wholly irrelevant) technicality?

Also have to laugh at your pathetic attempt to equate you breaking the law in a dangerous manner with the IMF deal. Grow up and be a man. When you break the law, pay the fine.

the_syco · 26-07-2011 9:24am

freddublin wrote: »

And there is a mistake on the fine itself. It says the speed limit is 50, but there (on the quays beside Heuston going to town) it's 30.

Pretty sure the 30 zone has only applies from Capel St in, for the past while?

freddublin · 26-07-2011 9:27am

the_syco wrote: »

Pretty sure the 30 zone has only applies from Capel St in, for the past while?

It seems that it has changed on the 1st of July as for many 30 zones. I was looking for signs this morning but couldn't find any...

freddublin · 26-07-2011 9:31am

Deleted User wrote: »

You accept that you committed the crime but you don't want to accede to the punishment because of some minor (and wholly irrelevant) technicality?

Also have to laugh at your pathetic attempt to equate you breaking the law in a dangerous manner with the IMF deal. Grow up and be a man. When you break the law, pay the fine.

I love punishment but not from the gards

I was attempting to say that sometimes you need to challenge rules or what you're told. (Don't worry I'l pay the fine).

About the IMF deal, we just take it and pay for it. Saw more poeple in the street against abortion than about the payslips being lowered down because of some incompetent d...a... that brought the country to the way it is today!

board_stiff · 26-07-2011 9:42am

freddublin wrote: »

It seems that it has changed on the 1st of July as for many 30 zones. I was looking for signs this morning but couldn't find any...

The 30km speed zone along the Quays going to town starts at Bridge st. and has done since it's introduction - http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0210/speedlimitdublin.pdf

Whether right or wrong you are looking for a loophole to get out of paying the fine. However the stretch of road around Heuston is a 50km zone and so it was correctly stated on your fine. Therefore there is nothing to dispute.

Paulw · 26-07-2011 10:54am

freddublin wrote: »

I was attempting to say that sometimes you need to challenge rules or what you're told. (Don't worry I'l pay the fine).

Then don't pay the fine, and challenge it in court. It's your choice.

Plazaman · 26-07-2011 11:05am

It's very dodge going to court as usually the fine is increased and points doubled if you lose.

Regardless of no cars on the road that early in the morn, it would be pedestrians that would be the prob (little old ladies going to early morning mass, drunken types going home from the night before) and around Heuston, there's plenty of blind spots they can step from. Try stopping quickly if one of these appear in front of you and your doing 50 +, mightn't be you're fault they step out in front of you but you'll get blamed (and they make much more of a mess than a seagull).

coylemj · 26-07-2011 1:46pm

'But your honour, I wasn't doing 20 over the limit, I was doing 40 over the limit' - guess what happens next?

Reminds me of a case down the country years ago where a bunch of people who were caught in a pub after hours were summonsed to appear in court. Usually in such a case none of the 'found ons' turned up as the standard fine was ten shillings or a pound so it wasn't worth hiring a solicitor or turning up to argue your case.

On this particular day a guy did turn up so when the clerk read out the names of the ten or so customers who had their names taken, didn't our man step forward and inform the judge that he was pleading leniency because he was only drinking a Club Orange only to be told by the judge that since he wasn't having a jar he had no excuse to be there after hours so he fined him two pounds!

Victor · 26-07-2011 5:25pm

board_stiff wrote: »

The 30km speed zone along the Quays going to town starts at Bridge st. and has done since it's introduction - http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0210/speedlimitdublin.pdf

That was changed in March 2011 to Capel Street (eastbound) and Wood Quay (westbound).

http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/generaltrafficmeasures/Documents/TD%203369_06%2030%20km%20hr%20City%20Centre%20approved%20%20Mar%202011%20.pdf

wailim_2002 · 23-01-2012 12:30pm

Hi Lads,

What do you think of a €80 fine and 2 points for 109Km/Hr in a 100Km/Hr zone on the Arklow bypass? The location of the VAN was 200m from where the dual carriageway converges to a 2 lane road with bi-directional traffic.

I have asked a number of friends and no-one has ever got caught below what most people see as the 10% rule.

This was a gatzo van and the snap was at 10.30pm when the road was deserted.

I would be a whole lot more comfortable paying this if it had been 111Km/Hr because then I'd accept the tolerance of my speedo and the camera itself did not conspire to have me caught unfairly.

I did a bit of research and can find no Irish guidelines regarding enforcement tolerances.

In the UK according to ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) site:

the rule is 10% + 2mph or 3mph depending on the speed limit and this is because the regulations for speedometers for older cars did not require them to be more than 10% accurate.

As a result in the UK on that site, the closest UK speed limit of 60MPH they suggest Fixed Penalty at 68MPH. (10% + 2MPH)

If you apply that formula to 100KM zone it would be 110 + 3 = 113Km/Hr!!!!

I will probably pay this and try to forget about it but I have lost a lot of respect for the Gardai over this!

Paulw · 23-01-2012 12:35pm

wailim_2002 wrote: »

I have asked a number of friends and no-one has ever got caught below what most people see as the 10% rule.

There is no 10% rule. It's a myth.

The gatso van is automatic. It's not someone pressing the button to take a pict when you are speeding, but an automatic speed detection system and camera. If you're speeding, it takes a photo. If you're not, it doesn't.

So, while you might feel hard done by, the system said you were speeding.

Also, have the points for speeding not been increased from 2 to 3 points recently?

wailim_2002 · 23-01-2012 12:51pm

I understand what you are saying and I'm sure it could have got me at 1Km over 100KPH.

You say its a myth do you mean Ireland or UK or both? If you click the link for the UK association of chief police officers it is certainly no Myth in the UK! And the two countries tend to mirror each other very closely for obvious reasons.

Also for example why don't people get done for 103 in a 100 zone.... THEY DONT! I did phone the helpline and the garda suggested they have seen a few at 109KPH in recent times and conceded not seeing them below this. This suggests there is some formula or common sense in existence regardless of how it gets applied.

She did also suggest to send it in to them with a note requesting them to look at it again and they would.

I can see your comparison between a Garda pulling the trigger and a computer but the reality is the Garda might set a higher threshold depending on many factors including conditions and general speed on the day but mostly I suspect according to how comfortable they feel tapping on your window.

Paulw · 23-01-2012 12:55pm

Gardai have the power of discretion. They can decide to stop you or not. They can also decide to prosecute or not. They can make a decision about the incident, based on any number of factors.

The gatso van is just an automatic camera. It's black or white to the system in the van. You're either speeding or you're not.

wailim_2002 · 23-01-2012 12:58pm

Paulw wrote: »

Gardai have the power of discretion. They can decide to stop you or not. They can also decide to prosecute or not. They can make a decision about the incident, based on any number of factors.

The gatso van is just an automatic camera. It's black or white to the system in the van. You're either speeding or you're not.

So you don't think someone set the machine up with the actual zone speed and threshold either there on the day or its preset by GPS location?

In other words you think if you drove your car down there at 101KPH it would do you and you'd be okay with that?

Geez!

Paulw · 23-01-2012 1:08pm

wailim_2002 wrote: »

So you don't think someone set the machine up with the actual zone speed and threshold either there on the day or its preset by GPS location?

In other words you think if you drove your car down there at 101KPH it would do you and you'd be okay with that?

I don't actually know if it's set manually in the camera, or set by GPS. But, if you're going less than the speed limit, the system won't trigger. If the speed limit is 100kph, then it should trigger for all vehicles passing doing greater than that limit.

I'm not at all saying I'd be ok with it, I'm just saying that that's how it is. I don't agree with some limits on some roads, but that's just the way it is.

23-01-2012 1:15pm

wailim_2002 wrote: »

So you don't think someone set the machine up with the actual zone speed and threshold either there on the day or its preset by GPS location?

In other words you think if you drove your car down there at 101KPH it would do you and you'd be okay with that?

Geez!

Look, I know it's a matter of degrees and I know that some of the speed limits are ridiculous but by their very nature speed limits are arbitrary. The law designates that 100kmph is a perfectly acceptable legal speed to travel. Consequently 101kmph is as much a violation of that law as 150kmph. The difference in moral culpability is taken into account at the sentencing stage, not at the charging stage as both are, de facto, illegal acts.

I am not disagreeing that it is frustrating but that's the limit we have set. If you exceed it you are breaking the law and that is, as they say, that.

Victor · 23-01-2012 1:39pm

wailim_2002 wrote: »

What do you think of a €80 fine and 2 points for 109Km/Hr in a 100Km/Hr zone on the Arklow bypass? The location of the VAN was 200m from where the dual carriageway converges to a 2 lane road with bi-directional traffic.

Fair cop.

Zambia · 23-01-2012 1:42pm

101/100 is not the same as 150/100 under Irish law surely?

Its not the same offence like?

Victor · 23-01-2012 2:02pm

Zambia wrote: »

101/100 is not the same as 150/100 under Irish law surely?

Its not the same offence like?

Severe cases would likely get a careless / dangerous driving charge.

Tails142 · 23-01-2012 2:06pm

wailim_2002 wrote: »

Hi Lads,

What do you think of a €80 fine and 2 points for 109Km/Hr in a 100Km/Hr zone on the Arklow bypass? The location of the VAN was 200m from where the dual carriageway converges to a 2 lane road with bi-directional traffic.

I have asked a number of friends and no-one has ever got caught below what most people see as the 10% rule.

This was a gatzo van and the snap was at 10.30pm when the road was deserted.
I
I would be a whole lot more comfortable paying this if it had been 111Km/Hr because then I'd accept the tolerance of my speedo and the camera itself did not conspire to have me caught unfairly.

I did a bit of research and can find no Irish guidelines regarding enforcement tolerances.

In the UK according to ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) site:

the rule is 10% + 2mph or 3mph depending on the speed limit and this is because the regulations for speedometers for older cars did not require them to be more than 10% accurate.

As a result in the UK on that site, the closest UK speed limit of 60MPH they suggest Fixed Penalty at 68MPH. (10% + 2MPH)

If you apply that formula to 100KM zone it would be 110 + 3 = 113Km/Hr!!!!

I will probably pay this and try to forget about it but I have lost a lot of respect for the Gardai over this!

Your speedometer in general over reads by about ten percent, you will see this if you have a gps.

If your speedometer says your doing 100 km/hr your actually only doing about 91 which is what a speed gun would read.

so the speed gun/van said you were doing 109 which means the speedometer on your car was showing about 120 km/hr.

23-01-2012 2:20pm

Zambia wrote: »

101/100 is not the same as 150/100 under Irish law surely?

Its not the same offence like?

If you were going at an outrageous speed you might get an additional charge of dangerous/careless driving but driving in excess of the speed limit is the same crime regardless of the degree of excess.

amen · 23-01-2012 2:45pm

Why not use the freedom of information act and ask for a list of all cars registered for speeding at that location on that date, the number of summons sent etc you may see a pattern

Victor · 23-01-2012 2:59pm

amen wrote: »

Why not use the freedom of information act

Doesn't apply to the Garda.

Marquis de carabas · 23-01-2012 3:30pm

wailim_2002 wrote: »

Hi Lads,

What do you think of a €80 fine and 2 points for 109Km/Hr in a 100Km/Hr zone on the Arklow bypass? The location of the VAN was 200m from where the dual carriageway converges to a 2 lane road with bi-directional traffic.

I have asked a number of friends and no-one has ever got caught below what most people see as the 10% rule.

This was a gatzo van and the snap was at 10.30pm when the road was deserted.

I would be a whole lot more comfortable paying this if it had been 111Km/Hr because then I'd accept the tolerance of my speedo and the camera itself did not conspire to have me caught unfairly.

I did a bit of research and can find no Irish guidelines regarding enforcement tolerances.

In the UK according to ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) site:

the rule is 10% + 2mph or 3mph depending on the speed limit and this is because the regulations for speedometers for older cars did not require them to be more than 10% accurate.

As a result in the UK on that site, the closest UK speed limit of 60MPH they suggest Fixed Penalty at 68MPH. (10% + 2MPH)

If you apply that formula to 100KM zone it would be 110 + 3 = 113Km/Hr!!!!

I will probably pay this and try to forget about it but I have lost a lot of respect for the Gardai over this!

First of all was it a Gatso van or one of the new privately operated ones?

If its a privately operated one then everyone over the limit gets recorded and someone in an office decides.

Second the way the laws work if you were doing 101 km/hr in a 100 zone you'd still be likely convicted in court. I've heard it argued successfully before. They're limits not the speed you'd be expected to be driving on.

The N11 between wicklow and arklow have seen a number of bad accidents in recent years. Im happy that its getting some attention at least.

wailim_2002 · 23-01-2012 3:49pm

Tails142 wrote: »

Your speedometer in general over reads by about ten percent, you will see this if you have a gps.

If your speedometer says your doing 100 km/hr your actually only doing about 91 which is what a speed gun would read.

so the speed gun/van said you were doing 109 which means the speedometer on your car was showing about 120 km/hr.

Sorry this is not correct. Agreed it may well be what you found in your car, but you cannot say what way my speedometer reads! .. and this is my point!

I had a Vauxhall like that and I had a ford focus that was the other way around completely! Obviously the way you describe it is preferable because its safer but it does highlight my point that speedos are not accurate. Does nobody see the issue at all?

I may have been in my car doing 99Kph or 101Kph and got done for doing 109Kph without ever intending that!!! I don't know how accurate my current car is because I no longer have standalone GPS - I find google navigation perfect for when I need it but there doesnt seem to be an option to show current speed.

Anyway you should get that looked at .. seriously!

Consider that if your speedometer reading was another couple of % out you could get done for dangerous driving for going too slow on a motorway :eek:. You may think you are doing 100 Kph and you may like driving at that, but in actual fact you are only doing 91Kph. So if you slow down another bit or if your problem deteriorates you will be below the minimum 80Kph limit.

And while were on it if your car is showing 100K miles on it, it has actually travelled just 91K miles so you are also doing yourself out of pocket in terms of resale value.

If we need to be this accurate then NCT should be verifying SPEEDOs are within 9%.... impossible I say

wailim_2002 · 23-01-2012 3:58pm

Marquis de carabas wrote: »

First of all was it a Gatso van or one of the new privately operated ones?

If its a privately operated one then everyone over the limit gets recorded and someone in an office decides.

Second the way the laws work if you were doing 101 km/hr in a 100 zone you'd still be likely convicted in court. I've heard it argued successfully before. They're limits not the speed you'd be expected to be driving on.

The N11 between wicklow and arklow have seen a number of bad accidents in recent years. Im happy that its getting some attention at least.

I agree 100% with everything you said here. Fair play to you for stating this and in the way you have done.

Road Safety is the paramount goal and I have no problem in general. I did say had I it been 111kph I would have been angry with myself but would accept it no question. However now I am angry with myself but also feel unfairly treated. The UK guidlines in my case would have been 113kph not 109kph... for the reasons I tried to make and another poster more or less inadvertently confirmed .. SPEEDOS are not this accurate. I might well have been showing 99kph at the time :mad:

Paulw · 23-01-2012 4:04pm

wailim_2002 wrote: »

Road Safety is the paramount goal and I have no problem in general. I did say had I it been 111kph I would have been angry with myself but would accept it no question. However now I am angry with myself but also feel unfairly treated. The UK guidlines in my case would have been 113kph not 109kph... for the reasons I tried to make and another poster more or less inadvertently confirmed .. SPEEDOS are not this accurate. I might well have been showing 99kph at the time :mad:

So, you're saying that your speedo was showing you doing under 110kph when you were caught doing 109kph by the van?

In that case, your car may have been modified (non-factory fitted wheels, or other modification), which can effect the reading of your speedo.

By default, the manufacturer will configure the speedo to read more than your actual speed. I can't find it right now, but I believe it's a standard that all vehicles comply with.

Unfortunately, doing 109 or 113 makes no difference to the law, since the speed limit is 100kph. Both 109 and 113 are above that limit, and the mechanism in the van will trigger at any speed above 100kph.

Marquis de carabas · 23-01-2012 4:07pm

wailim_2002 wrote: »

I agree 100% with everything you said here. Fair play to you for stating this and in the way you have done.

Road Safety is the paramount goal and I have no problem in general. I did say had I it been 111kph I would have been angry with myself but would accept it no question. However now I am angry with myself but also feel unfairly treated. The UK guidlines in my case would have been 113kph not 109kph... for the reasons I tried to make and another poster more or less inadvertently confirmed .. SPEEDOS are not this accurate. I might well have been showing 99kph at the time :mad:

Agreed and I'd be the first to accept that it isn't always easy to maintain a constant speed and mistakes happen.

I'd much prefer more guards on the roads but with cuts in numbers and budgets I know that's not going to happen so the vans are the best that can be hoped for.

Its much easier for a person in an office to make a cold calculated decision to prosecute where a guard might have cautioned or advised you but that's the way we are heading.

You can be annoyed about it and you can fight it but I think it might just be one of those things you'll have to put down to having a bad day.

wailim_2002 · 23-01-2012 4:18pm

Paulw wrote: »

So, you're saying that your speedo was showing you doing under 110kph when you were caught doing 109kph by the van?

In that case, your car may have been modified (non-factory fitted wheels, or other modification), which can effect the reading of your speedo.

By default, the manufacturer will configure the speedo to read more than your actual speed. I can't find it right now, but I believe it's a standard that all vehicles comply with.

Unfortunately, doing 109 or 113 makes no difference to the law, since the speed limit is 100kph. Both 109 and 113 are above that limit, and the mechanism in the van will trigger at any speed above 100kph.

I agree with most of what you say but the middle bit is not correct. Older vehicles had to be accurate to +/-10%. Newer vehicles must comply with a much smaller accuracy according to EU regulation. Check the link I forwarded earlier to the Association of Chief Police Officers (UK reference)

There is no accord between manufactures to under-report. They make them as accurate as the need to be in regulation. There is no guarantee that two Ford Focus or two Opel Astras read the same speed under test conditions. You might rightly feel like suing your car manufacturer if you were pulled over for doing 79Kph on the motorway when you thought you were doing 88Kph.... Yes / No?? So they make them as accurate as they can (if no regulation) or as accurate as they must be (if regulation exists).. in this way they can never be sued.

PS: My car is 10 years old and through no fault of mine it has 16" wheels and normal profile tyres whereas I am pretty sure it originally had 15" and normal profile. I have no doubt this is a contributory factor so you are right there!

Victor · 23-01-2012 4:29pm

wailim_2002 wrote: »

I may have been in my car doing 99Kph or 101Kph and got done for doing 109Kph without ever intending that!!!

No, the devices used in prosecutions are quite accurate.

Consider that if your speedometer reading was another couple of % out you could get done for dangerous driving for going too slow on a motorway :eek:. You may think you are doing 100 Kph and you may like driving at that, but in actual fact you are only doing 91Kph. So if you slow down another bit or if your problem deteriorates you will be below the minimum 80Kph limit.

There is no minimum speed limit in Ireland. Vehicles on motorways need to be capable of 50km/h, but there is no requirement to do that speed (other than the general requirement to keep up with traffic). Trucks are subject to 80km/h speed limit. In the event of an incident, the port tunnel (a motorway) can have a maximum speed limit of 50km/h.

And while were on it if your car is showing 100K miles on it, it has actually travelled just 91K miles so you are also doing yourself out of pocket in terms of resale value.

Speedometers and odometers are two different things.

Paulw · 23-01-2012 4:34pm

wailim_2002 wrote: »

I agree with most of what you say but the middle bit is not correct. Older vehicles had to be accurate to +/-10%. Newer vehicles must comply with a much smaller accuracy according to EU regulation. Check the link I forwarded earlier to the Association of Chief Police Officers (UK reference)

There is no accord between manufactures to under-report. They make them as accurate as the need to be in regulation. There is no guarantee that two Ford Focus or two Opel Astras read the same speed under test conditions. You might rightly feel like suing your car manufacturer if you were pulled over for doing 79Kph on the motorway when you thought you were doing 88Kph.... Yes / No?? So they make them as accurate as they can (if no regulation) or as accurate as they must be (if regulation exists).. in this way they can never be sued.

PS: My car is 10 years old and through no fault of mine it has 16" wheels and normal profile tyres whereas I am pretty sure it originally had 15" and normal profile. I have no doubt this is a contributory factor so you are right there!

From wikipedia (I don't always trust this source) - with the UNECE regulation and the EC Directives, the speedometer must never show an indicated speed less than the actual speed. However it differs slightly from them in specifying that for all actual speeds between 25 mph and 70 mph (or the vehicles' maximum speed if it is lower than this), the indicated speed must not exceed 110% of the actual speed, plus 6.25 mph. - eg if your speed is 50mph, then the speedo must show speeds between 50mph and 61mpg, but never a speed slower than 50mph (using mph from the guide info.

So, your car speedo must always indicate a speed greater than the actual speed of the vehicle. The only way your vehicle will show a speed less than you are travelling is when there has been a modification (non-factory).

If you were actually doing 80kph, and your speedo showed you doing 75kph, then you can certainly take the manufacturer to court, but only if there have been no modifications to your car. Since car companies would never want that, they always set it faster, so doing 80kph should show on your speedo are (normally) 85+kph.

wailim_2002 · 23-01-2012 4:48pm

Paulw wrote: »

From wikipedia (I don't always trust this source) - with the UNECE regulation and the EC Directives, the speedometer must never show an indicated speed less than the actual speed. However it differs slightly from them in specifying that for all actual speeds between 25 mph and 70 mph (or the vehicles' maximum speed if it is lower than this), the indicated speed must not exceed 110% of the actual speed, plus 6.25 mph. - eg if your speed is 50mph, then the speedo must show speeds between 50mph and 61mpg, but never a speed slower than 50mph (using mph from the guide info.

So, your car speedo must always indicate a speed greater than the actual speed of the vehicle. The only way your vehicle will show a speed less than you are travelling is when there has been a modification (non-factory).

If you were actually doing 80kph, and your speedo showed you doing 75kph, then you can certainly take the manufacturer to court, but only if there have been no modifications to your car. Since car companies would never want that, they always set it faster, so doing 80kph should show on your speedo are (normally) 85+kph.

I am quoting the British Police official web site. I'd quote our own if they had similar guidelines. You are quoting an unregulated but sometimes useful source.

However while some of it may be accurate, whats missing there is from when? As you know EU is always making things like emissions, safety etc stricter and stricter... and this is GOOD. But its no use using Todays regulation and applying it to a 10 year old or 20 year old car.

If NCT did that for some of the things they check, you wouldn't be able to drive a 5 year old car here

TMC99 · 23-01-2012 4:51pm

There is actually a standard applied for approval at an EU level.

The indicated speed must never be less than the actual speed, i.e. it should not be possible to inadvertently speed because of an incorrect speedometer reading.
The indicated speed must not be more than 110 percent of the true speed plus 4 km/h at specified test speeds. For example, at 80 km/h, the indicated speed must be no more than 92 km/h.

Thats from a 1975 EU directive

wailim_2002 · 23-01-2012 4:54pm

Victor wrote: »

No, the devices used in prosecutions are quite accurate.
There is no minimum speed limit in Ireland. Vehicles on motorways need to be capable of 50km/h, but there is no requirement to do that speed (other than the general requirement to keep up with traffic). Trucks are subject to 80km/h speed limit. In the event of an incident, the port tunnel (a motorway) can have a maximum speed limit of 50km/h.
Speedometers and odometers are two different things.

Victor - maybe my point was not well made. I meant according to my speedometer I may have been doing 99 - 101Kph but actually doing 109Kph and totally oblivious to that fact... what other way would I know? Certainly at 10.30pm not many other cars to judge my own speed against.

But on that point... how accurate are they? What if on that day the gatzo van hit a pothole in our glorious roads and the detector was damaged? If its over-reading the speed by as little as 1% or 2% and my car is under-reporting by 4% or 5% ... thats it... I'm screwed despite sticking with my speedometer.

In most [agreed not all] but very definitely most... the speedo and odo are driven by the same device... either the vehicle speed sensor in the gearbox or in most modern cars by the ECU which averages the speed of the front wheels as told by the pulses it obtains from the ABS brake rings... sorry but this is one of my jobs

Paulw · 23-01-2012 4:58pm

wailim_2002 wrote: »

I am quoting the British Police official web site. I'd quote our own if they had similar guidelines. You are quoting an unregulated but sometimes useful source.

But, those are only guidelines.

The law states that if you are above the legal limit then you are committing an offence, and can be prosecuted. Again, the van taking the photo doesn't work on guidelines, only on the black and white. Faster than the limit, or not faster than the limit.

All the van sees is that your vehicle (never mind what your speedo says) is travelling faster than the speed limit, it will take a photo and you get a letter in the post.

If you have an issue with your speedo, it's inaccuracy, then you should take this up with a mechanic, but a judge will not take that in to consideration. Unfortunately, it is up to you to know you are not travelling faster than the indicated speed limit.

You can claim you were only doing 109kph, but the limit is 100kph, and it is up to you to ensure you are not doing more than 100kph.

Victor · 23-01-2012 5:07pm

wailim_2002 wrote: »

my car is under-reporting by 4% or 5%

That's your responsibility, nobody else's.

In all likelihood, the speedometer was reading more than 109km/h.

Marcusm · 23-01-2012 5:59pm

wailim_2002 wrote: »

I am quoting the British Police official web site. I'd quote our own if they had similar guidelines. You are quoting an unregulated but sometimes useful source.

Just to be clear, you are quoting the website of the trade union of very senior police officers not that of the police service itself!!

Paarthurnax · 12-07-2017 8:06am

Sorry ABOUT resurrecting an old thread! I was caught doing 178km on the motorway and there's a good chance of getting done for dangerous driving, any ideas what I'm likely to face?

beechwood55 · 12-07-2017 8:51am

Have you any previous penalty points or convictions? I think you might be best to get a solicitor.

One_Of_Shanks · 12-07-2017 9:08am

Paarthurnax wrote: »

Sorry ABOUT resurrecting an old thread! I was caught doing 178km on the motorway and there's a good chance of getting done for dangerous driving, any ideas what I'm likely to face?

In a 120 zone, yeah? What did the Guard say when he was talking to you? Did he mention dangerous driving?
Was it a dry day? I think they take weather conditions into account too when it comes to things like this, could be wrong...

Paarthurnax · 12-07-2017 10:23am

beechwood55 wrote: »

Have you any previous penalty points or convictions? I think you might be best to get a solicitor.

I have 3 penalty points for speeding and no previous convictions, 20 years+ Full licence, ill get a solicitor on board when I receive my fine or summons.

Paarthurnax · 12-07-2017 10:26am

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

In a 120 zone, yeah? What did the Guard say when he was talking to you? Did he mention dangerous driving?
Was it a dry day? I think they take weather conditions into account too when it comes to things like this, could be wrong...

Guard gave me a dressing down said it was dangerous driving, I was on they way to work weather was fine on a Sunday evening.

hullaballoo · 12-07-2017 11:09am

Moderator: do not post content from other sites without referencing your source.

Posts deleted.

Disputing a speeding fine

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