What planet is Noonan living on?

alejandro1977 · 20-01-2012 04:53PM

Biggins wrote: »

I keep hearing this out of context excuse - but not one person has produced a recording of their supposed version they heard that proves it!

The proof is in the pudding, please produce it or get out of Dodge!

I heard it on Newstalk. It was out of context. He also mentioned his 5 adult children and mentioned 3 of them had moved abroad for lifestyle reasons.

As you're the one making a song and dance about it the onus is on you to show the transcript.

hallelujajordan · 20-01-2012 04:56PM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Just look at the OP provided by Biggins, then explain how it's out of context.
It's laughable.

The Irish political class cannot deal with the internet, it's a thorn in their side.
In the 90s, they would have got away with this, now they can't and they don't know how to cope, HAHAHA!

p.s.
The housing market has not collapsed, it's just that the builders all have bad backs and they're all on sick leave!!

The OP was a quote from a fairly one-sided piece of reporting in The Journal . . . It's fair enough to look beyond a story like this and consider the context. . . Noonan does claim on Six-one news (RTE Player, 25 mins in) that he went on to talk about the people who had no choice but to emigrate, which is supported by Shane Colemans comments on the Right Hook.

Not sure what this has to do with the internet

steelcityblues · 20-01-2012 04:59PM

Pompous Gilmore defending Noonan's comments - what a surprise.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/gilmore-noonan-emigration-comments-misinterpreted-536723.html

Dannyboy83 · 20-01-2012 05:00PM

hallelujajordan wrote: »

The OP was a quote from a fairly one-sided piece of reporting in The Journal . . . It's fair enough to look beyond a story like this and consider the context. . . Noonan does claim on Six-one news (RTE Player, 25 mins in) that he went on to talk about the people who had no choice but to emigrate, which is supported by Shane Colemans comments on the Right Hook.

I have zero interest in what Shane Coleman said.
I'm only interested in what Michael Noonan said.

Can you please confirm that the statements Noonan made in the OP provided by Biggins are false?
If you can confirm that, that I withdraw my objection.

If you cannot confirm it, then I honestly have no idea why you keep bringing Coleman into the case....what does he have to do with this???

Dannyboy83 · 20-01-2012 05:07PM

Could somebody please explain to me - how can this be taken out of context

“It’s not being driven by unemployment at home, it’s being driven by a desire to see another part of the world and live there.”

There is nothing to take out of context there. It is a very definite statement

Do people mean to say he was misquoted?

alejandro1977 · 20-01-2012 05:17PM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Could somebody please explain to me - how can this be taken out of context

“It’s not being driven by unemployment at home, it’s being driven by a desire to see another part of the world and live there.”

There is nothing to take out of context there. It is a very definite statement

Do people mean to say he was misquoted?

He was referring to a subset of the emigration.
here: knock yourself out. @ 25.00 minutes

http://www.rte.ie/news/player.html?sixonenews#programme=Six%20One%20News

Dannyboy83 · 20-01-2012 05:43PM

alejandro1977 wrote: »

He was referring to a subset of the emigration.
here: knock yourself out. @ 25.00 minutes

http://www.rte.ie/news/player.html?sixonenews#programme=Six%20One%20News

He says on the news clip, he is being MISQUOTED.
He specifically says "I said for 'some' people" at 25:00.
Then he says, for the vast majority of people, it is forced emigration.

That is not the quote provided in the OP.
In the OP, it is definite and explicit
"It’s not being driven by unemployment at home, it’s being driven by a desire to see another part of the world and live there.”

http://www.thejournal.ie/noonan-on-emigration-comments-i-am-being-quoted-out-of-context-332657-Jan2012/

Referring to his earlier press conference, Noonan said: “I am being quoted out of context.

There is a fundamental difference between MISQUOTED and QUOTED OUT OF CONTEXT.

hallelujajordan · 20-01-2012 05:55PM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

He says on the news clip, he is being MISQUOTED.
He specifically says "I said for 'some' people" at 25:00.
Then he says, for the vast majority of people, it is forced emigration.

That is not the quote provided in the OP.
In the OP, it is definite and explicit
"It’s not being driven by unemployment at home, it’s being driven by a desire to see another part of the world and live there.”

There is a fundamental difference between MISQUOTED and QUOTED OUT OF CONTEXT.

"It’s not being driven by unemployment at home, it’s being driven by a desire to see another part of the world and live there.”

"For some people, It’s not being driven by unemployment at home, it’s being driven by a desire to see another part of the world and live there.”

Can you see the difference there ?? Technically neither is a misquote but one certainly means something different than the other . .

In our rush to judgement we should be careful to consider all the facts . .

alejandro1977 · 20-01-2012 06:00PM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

He says on the news clip, he is being MISQUOTED.
He specifically says "I said for 'some' people" at 25:00.
Then he says, for the vast majority of people, it is forced emigration.

That is not the quote provided in the OP.
In the OP, it is definite and explicit
"It’s not being driven by unemployment at home, it’s being driven by a desire to see another part of the world and live there.”

There is a fundamental difference between MISQUOTED and QUOTED OUT OF CONTEXT.

http://media.newstalk.ie/listenback/49/

Click on Breakfast (Friday);
Part 4;
25.15

You're welcome.

for the full whack:

http://www.rte.ie/news/av/2012/0119/media-3172720.html#

Go to 31:43.

Obviously the OP has too short an attention span to get that far and needs his politics digested and regurgitated by the journal.ie

Dannyboy83 · 20-01-2012 06:27PM

alejandro1977 wrote: »

http://media.newstalk.ie/listenback/49/

Click on Breakfast (Friday);
Part 4;
25.15

You're welcome.

Thanks for the link.

Here is what Noonan actually said
"A lot of the people who go to Australia, it's not being driven by unemployment at home, it's being driven by a desire to go to another part of the world and live there"

Let's see;
i) Unemployment rate running at 50% for men under 26, 30 percent for women under 26.
ii) 2nd highest unemployment rate in the European Union.
iii) highest emigration rate in the european union

I will give him this; 4 years ago, he was right.
In Ireland 2012, he may aswell be telling us a lot of the Africans just like the skinny look.

alejandro1977 · 20-01-2012 06:35PM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I will give him this; 4 years ago, he was right.
In Ireland 2012, he may aswell be telling us a lot of the Africans just like the skinny look.

hmmm; yeah.

I'm sure if he thought his comments would be picked up and abused by thejournal.ie he would haven't used the words "a lot" and instead

"wisha, they're all leavin', and their poor old Dad is sittin' be the fire waiting for the letter from afar; ochon, ochon go deo"

hallelujajordan · 20-01-2012 06:41PM

Having listened to the full clip on rte.ie (thanks alejandro1977) I have to say that the journal.ie reporting of this was shamefully one-sided and for that matter so too was Fionnan Sheehan's in todays Independent (and I'm sure, once he listens to it the OP will agree).

Noonan did indeed go on to talk about forced emigration due to the collapse of the building industry and he also spoke about what we needed to do with the education system to address the problem . . In full context his comments are accurate and perfectly reasonable.

Dannyboy83 · 20-01-2012 07:10PM

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Having listened to the full clip on rte.ie (thanks alejandro1977) I have to say that the journal.ie reporting of this was shamefully one-sided and for that matter so too was Fionnan Sheehan's in todays Independent (and I'm sure, once he listens to it the OP will agree).

Noonan did indeed go on to talk about forced emigration due to the collapse of the building industry and he also spoke about what we needed to do with the education system to address the problem . . In full context his comments are accurate and perfectly reasonable.

This is a fair comment - more reasonable than what was portrayed in the media.

I think this is unusual for TheJournal, so I would not fault the OP here. TheJournal have sunk a little on my estimation, but so has Noonan.

I find his justification weak- he should ask himself WHY do skilled people want to leave and attempt to improve things so they wont.

And why did he never find this rationale when Fianna Fail were in government?

Dannyboy83 · 20-01-2012 07:15PM

alejandro1977 wrote: »

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I will give him this; 4 years ago, he was right.
In Ireland 2012, he may aswell be telling us a lot of the Africans just like the skinny look.

hmmm; yeah.

I'm sure if he thought his comments would be picked up and abused by thejournal.ie he would haven't used the words "a lot" and instead

"wisha, they're all leavin', and their poor old Dad is sittin' be the fire waiting for the letter from afar; ochon, ochon go deo"

It's not just about dad by the fire.
It's about our future.
Im worried about the donkeys left behind who have to pay for it all ,more than the people who escape. lol

alejandro1977 · 20-01-2012 07:24PM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

This is a fair comment - more reasonable than what was portrayed in the media.

I thinl this is unusual for thejournal, so i would not fault the OP here. thejournal have sunk a little on my estimation, but so has noonan.

i find his justification weak- he should ask himself WHY do skilled people want to leave and attempt to improve things so they wont.

And why did he never find this rationale when Fianna Fail were in government?

Because it's a small country, with a population of Manchester; Go to London and there are loads of top grads from all over the world. I've been and gone several times myself and didn't beat myself up too much about it.

Noonan looks pretty wistful in the video, I'm sure he misses his children but he seems to believe they'll retun.

Going Forward · 20-01-2012 08:44PM

Emigration can easily be another lifestyle choice for those born with silver spoons in their mouths.

For others less fortunate it can be a heartbreaking experience.

mandrake04 · 20-01-2012 10:27PM

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Take a look at last nights Six-one news on RTE Player; 25:00 . . Noonan shares his opinion. He also claims that during his press conference he went on to say that there were over 100,000 people in the building industry who had been forced to emigrate to Australia and that our focus should be on improving education standards and skill levels in Ireland so that our people don't have to emigrate. .

I was also listening to Shane Coleman on The Right Hook last night who had heard the entire press conference and agreed that Noonan had been quoted out of context. .

Feels to me like the media have provided an unbalanced and sensationalist account of what actually took place and opportunistic opposition TD's have tried to take advantage !

He must be on another planet if he said that.

I posted the true statistics in another thread, it's only on average 3000 per year or 2.2% of the intake.

100,000 is redicilous as there is only 168,000 people emigrate to Australia per year from the whole world

emick · 20-01-2012 10:43PM

It will be wipe out for both of them (FG & Labour) at next election. And then its back to the Fianna Fail for more of the same.

creeper1 · 20-01-2012 11:25PM

I read the sob story of the guy who "emigrated" to London. Sorry but London isn't emmigration in my mind.

As for money on education being wasted on emmigrants, well a lot of the money earned would be sent back home to Ireland so emmigration benefits the nation as a whole.

This aint coffin ship stuff. Irish citizens can get back here fairly easily. There are plenty of Poles, Latvians, Russians, Chinese, Romainains, Nigerians who would all jump at the chance to stay here.

Yet many Irish describe this place as a "hole".

So who's correct?

thebman · 20-01-2012 11:36PM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I think this is unusual for TheJournal, so I would not fault the OP here. TheJournal have sunk a little on my estimation, but so has Noonan.

In fairness this isn't that unusual for TheJournal.ie. When the college year was starting, I recall they basically had a promotional article for Ógra Fianna Fáil.

It is basically an ad site with some slanted journalism on it. That is why I stopped going there ages ago. There are articles are all fairly biased though many probably agree with a lot of the bias, doesn't make it proper journalism.

swimming in a sea full of trout wrote: »

I always thought it funny Irish people laughing at america at the thought of them electing Sarah Palin, when we had our own hockey mom from our Alaska(Donegal) fu*king things up.

At lest the yanks were not as stupid as irish and didn't elect her, although she could hardly have been worse than Mary Coughlan.

We weren't proposing giving Mary the keys to launch some nukes though.

jank · 21-01-2012 01:50AM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Thanks for the link.

Here is what Noonan actually said
"A lot of the people who go to Australia, it's not being driven by unemployment at home, it's being driven by a desire to go to another part of the world and live there"

Let's see;
i) Unemployment rate running at 50% for men under 26, 30 percent for women under 26.
ii) 2nd highest unemployment rate in the European Union.
iii) highest emigration rate in the european union

I will give him this; 4 years ago, he was right.
In Ireland 2012, he may aswell be telling us a lot of the Africans just like the skinny look.

As mandrake said only 3000 actually emigrated to Australia last year.

jimmycrackcorm · 21-01-2012 02:12AM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

This is a fair comment - more reasonable than what was portrayed in the media.

I think this is unusual for TheJournal, so I would not fault the OP here. TheJournal have sunk a little on my estimation, but so has Noonan.

I find his justification weak- he should ask himself WHY do skilled people want to leave and attempt to improve things so they wont.

And why did he never find this rationale when Fianna Fail were in government?

I too heard the full speech Noonan gave and I simply cannot understand the media reaction. Nothing he said is inaccurate... When my oh graduated from nursing during the boom most of her class went to Australia and we had to import nurses. Now they complain about it.

tayto lover · 21-01-2012 02:25AM

alejandro1977 wrote: »

Because it's a small country, with a population of Manchester; Go to London and there are loads of top grads from all over the world. I've been and gone several times myself and didn't beat myself up too much about it.

Noonan looks pretty wistful in the video, I'm sure he misses his children but he seems to believe they'll retun.

Ah God save him the poor fellow. I am sure he misses them so much and is wondering if they have a crust to eat in those foreign lands. So sad for him. He hasn't a penny to keep them here and might have to trade in some of his bonds.

alejandro1977 · 21-01-2012 01:36PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Ah God save him the poor fellow. I am sure he misses them so much and is wondering if they have a crust to eat in those foreign lands. So sad for him. He hasn't a penny to keep them here and might have to trade in some of his bonds.

What's your point? Boo! Big bad politician!?

He came in to government to clear up the mess caused by years of FF mismanagement which the cretins of the irish electorate went along with.

The fact that he invested his savings in a few German bonds shows he's not a gimpy slum landlord like a couple of FF ministers. Or like Bertie... Less said the better.

Perhaps a few of those lamenting em migration should look back on their own voting records and reflect on the part they played in the whole mess

Perhaps you'd like to disclose your past FF voting record?

tayto lover · 21-01-2012 02:15PM

alejandro1977 wrote: »

What's your point? Boo! Big bad politician!?

He came in to government to clear up the mess caused by years of FF mismanagement which the cretins of the irish electorate went along with.

The fact that he invested his savings in a few German bonds shows he's not a gimpy slum landlord like a couple of FF ministers. Or like Bertie... Less said the better.

Perhaps a few of those lamenting em migration should look back on their own voting records and reflect on the part they played in the whole mess

Perhaps you'd like to disclose your past FF voting record?

Never voted fopr F.F. since 1977/78 ?
Never voted for F.G. since their children shoes tax of 1974.
Have voted Ind since.
Do not like liars and both sides have them in abundance it seems. Noonan is just another one but a bit more smarmy and sarcastic I think. He has not changed since the Mc Cole days.

alejandro1977 · 21-01-2012 02:24PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Never voted fopr F.F. since 1977/78 ?
Never voted for F.G. since their children shoes tax of 1974.
Have voted Ind since.
Do not like liars and both sides have them in abundance it seems. Noonan is just another one but a bit more smarmy and sarcastic I think. He has not changed since the Mc Cole days.

1977 - the Krazy FF giveaway budget? Interesting!

You are incorrect on the year of the VAT on shoes too.

And since then you've never voted for a realistic alternative to FF...?

Dannyboy83 · 21-01-2012 02:28PM

thebman wrote: »

In fairness this isn't that unusual for TheJournal.ie. When the college year was starting, I recall they basically had a promotional article for Ógra Fianna Fáil.

It is basically an ad site with some slanted journalism on it. That is why I stopped going there ages ago. There are articles are all fairly biased though many probably agree with a lot of the bias, doesn't make it proper journalism.

Thanks.

I've deleted the journal app off my phone now tbh.
This is Daily Mail tactics imo.
There is enough wrong with the country and our political system without inventing new stuff.

tayto lover · 21-01-2012 02:30PM

alejandro1977 wrote: »

1977 - the Krazy FF giveaway budget? Interesting!

You are incorrect on the year of the VAT on shoes too.

And since then you've never voted for a realistic alternative to FF...?

Correct. I just don't trust them or F.G. who were the worst opposition party in history.

alejandro1977 · 21-01-2012 02:34PM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Thanks.

I've deleted the journal app off my phone now tbh.
This is Daily Mail tactics imo.
There is enough wrong with the country and our political system without inventing new stuff.

You're fight about the Daily Mail angle, low cost news/gossip aggregation. No pay wall and big emphasis on user comments. Lowest common denominator works in this age.

Make sure you tell them

alejandro1977 · 21-01-2012 02:36PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Correct. I just don't trust them or F.G. who were the worst opposition party in history.

They're all as bad as each other? Not very constructive is it?

You can't complain when that's your attitude.

What planet is Noonan living on?

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