Ireland's Poxy F***N Hospital System

Stiffler2 · 20-01-2012 04:29PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Sorry for your loss OP, but I don't believe your friend went to the hospital and was told to go home. They at least did routine tests and found things to be within normal parameters, they certainly couldn't have predicted what would happen a week later.

Thanks MagicMarker. I am no heart speciailist. All that I can tell you from a medical point of view is that the heart is in the chest.

If he was complaining of chest pain, went to a hospital to have it checked out and they sent him home, he then dies of a heart attack 1 week later.

If I brought my car to a mechanic to fix a broken wheel, he sent me on my way and then my wheel falls off 1 week later I blame the mechanic or whoever carried out the work and said, it's ok, off you go now.

That's the way I am looking at this but again I am not a heart specialist and I do understand that those chest pains could have been something else but it's too much of a coincidence for me.

Again I probably only feel this way due to anger / emotions right now.

TheZohanS · 20-01-2012 04:32PM

I'm sorry for your loss.

mikom · 20-01-2012 04:33PM

drkpower wrote: »

Nah; they wouldnt. 'You take your victim as you find him' is one of the maxims of medical law.

And....

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Hi All,
He attended tallaght hospital 1 week ago complaing of severe chest pains and you know what, they sent him home saying if it continues to come back in.

Nothingbetter2d · 20-01-2012 04:35PM

amacachi wrote: »

He didn't die, had another one a coupla days later and drove himself to hospital.

glad to hear that he didnt die.

mikom · 20-01-2012 04:36PM

Stiffler2 wrote: »

If I brought my car to a mechanic to fix a broken wheel, he sent me on my way and then my wheel falls off 1 week later I blame the mechanic or whoever carried out the work and said, it's ok, off you go now.

Would this work for the NCT?

Mr Benevolent · 20-01-2012 04:37PM

My dad collapsed and had a seizure fairly recently, first time it's happened. and he was rushed to Beaumont. They couldn't figure out what was wrong so they kept him in for a week. There was never any suggestion of sending him straight home even though they still don't know what happened. Even had an MRI and CAT scan, nothing showed up. Bottom line, they would not have sent him home without good cause. No reassurance, I know.

boodee · 20-01-2012 04:39PM

Unfortunately as a friend you will not be entitled to ask after any information about the case. They will only discuss it with next of kin. Unless the family want to do it, you wont get to find out.
Sometimes people don't want to know...OP, I hope you can get some peace of mind. Thinking of you.

Dyr · 20-01-2012 04:39PM

mikom wrote: »

Had the hospital control over his age, and lifestyle/diet throughout the years?

Because this is the first thing the defence would rip to shreds in your supposed courtroom situation.

Will his diet have any relation to proving professional negligence in a court?

im not a big city lawyer but I ****ing well doubt it.

af_thefragile · 20-01-2012 04:45PM

Bambi wrote: »

Will his diet have any relation to proving professional negligence in a court?

im not a big city lawyer but I ****ing well doubt it.

His past medical history would. Doctors follow hospital protocols and guidelines. If a young healthy patient comes into the AnE with chest pain, they will not do a full cardiac work up on him because that would cost HSE unnecessary money which the HSE cannot afford.

On the other hand if an old person or diabetic or with known history of heart disease etc. would come in, he would get a full cardiac work up before being sent home.

Anyway, I would suggest the OP to speak to his friend's family if they feel like finding out more about his friend's death and then his friend's family can talk to the hospital about what was done when his friend went to the AnE and why was he sent home. They will soon find out if it was a case of professional negligence or his friend was just unfortunate.

And yeah the hospital will not discuss anything with the OP as they'll only do this with the family members in strict confidentiality.

Biggins · 20-01-2012 04:55PM

Remember a short while back England Prince Philip having medical heart problems?

I had an uncle of mine went in the week before for a leg operation (now given his age (old) he WAS told it would be a gamble if it would be of any use).
Now after the operation he was fine and dandy for days - then BANG - Prince Philip had his heart problems so the entire floor that my uncle was on, was completely emptied by security just for the prince!
My uncle was moved to another hospital entirely and into a room with others that (it appears) had serious infections.
3/4 weeks later and we are burying him this week-end in Manchester.

Who's to blame? Is there anyone to blame at all? Is either hospital liable? God knows - I doubt we will really ever know.
(Its certainly NOT Prince Philip's direct fault as much as one might dis-like the idea of royalty)

Sometimes these things happen and sometimes some things can be avoided.
What it boils down to is being able to show and PROVE there was clear enough negligence and/or clear cock-ups to have a decent court case.

xzanti · 20-01-2012 04:57PM

Sorry for your loss but as a lot of others have said.. I think your anger is misplaced.. I hope you find comfort..

fishy fishy · 20-01-2012 05:11PM

yes its a third world country here when it comes to healthcare. the nurses/doctors are curtailed in what they can do - they can't work with nothing.

so....why not organise a protest - you and your friends could do it - highlight it and ask everyone else with similar stories to come along (of which there are many).

Only when something is nationally highlighted with a bit of passion will the gombeenmen listen. Otherwise they will continue as is.......

paperclip2 · 20-01-2012 05:27PM

My Sister had a 'dizzy spell' yesterday and fell down the stairs. Went to her doc who said it sounded like a seizure and referred her to local hospital A& E. ten hours later she still hadn't seen a doctor and was too wrecked to stay sitting in the waiting area so she went home. Healthcare my a***e

On another occasion my dad was sent home from an different A&E with a perforated bowel and ended up collapsing. He had to have 17 feet of small intestine removed subsequently.

Same A&E sent him home a few years later with 'psychomatic breathing difficulties', yes he was told it was all in his head. When he arrived back the next day he was admitted with double pneumonia and spent a month in hospital.

Irish healthcare=:rolleyes::eek::mad:

af_thefragile · 20-01-2012 05:33PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

yes its a third world country here when it comes to healthcare. the nurses/doctors are curtailed in what they can do - they can't work with nothing.

so....why not organise a protest - you and your friends could do it - highlight it and ask everyone else with similar stories to come along (of which there are many).

Only when something is nationally highlighted with a bit of passion will the gombeenmen listen. Otherwise they will continue as is.......

A bit extreme a quote maybe...

Irish healthcare is superior to the health care in most countries of the world but it is far from perfect with lots of room for improvement. The HSE budget cuts making things worse with hospitals being under staffed and doctors being made to work for long hours under fatigue which is when most mistakes happen.

fishy fishy · 20-01-2012 05:35PM

af_thefragile wrote: »

A bit extreme a quote maybe...

Irish healthcare is superior to the health care in most countries of the world but it is far from perfect with lots of room for improvement. The HSE budget cuts making things worse with hospitals being under staffed and doctors being made to work for long hours under fatigue which is when most mistakes happen.

are you serious?

drkpower · 20-01-2012 05:38PM

mikom wrote: »

And....

?

gbee · 20-01-2012 05:42PM

Unfortunately, your story is all too commonplace.

My own mother was sent home with pneumonia and died prematurely too. We did not pursue a case.

Get on your local radio station to get a sounding from others about the particular facility.

af_thefragile · 20-01-2012 05:47PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

are you serious?

If you consider how in most countries public health care is absolutely atrocious with no proper facilities and resources to treat the people with and private health care is the only decent health care but its so expensive that only the handful rich can afford it.

Leaving out third world countries where any sort of decent health care is non existent where people continually die of easily treatable acute illnesses which can't be treated due to lack of resources and funding.

Stiffler2 · 20-01-2012 05:52PM

Hi All,

I really appreciate all the input here, I'm heading off now so can't reply back to any posts until next week.

Unfortunately the man who died did not have any next of kin so I guess I will never be able to find out what the cause is which is really bad IMO. Will the hospital definetely only talk to next of kin ??
He was just a very close friend of the family but more of an uncle than a friend.

I suppose I'll leave the thread at that, again thanks to all.

cocoshovel · 20-01-2012 05:56PM

A lot of people really have no idea what they're talking about in here.
The healthcare system here is annoying I admit, but as previously said it is quite good compared to most other countries in the world, and especially at a time like this.
We have it too good you see so we're never happy, and its not like the people who treated and ran tests on your friend that day were slacking off. Im sure they did everything they were supposed to do and nothing major came up at the time or they had to run tests which take a long time. The only major problem was perhaps the system itself and not any individual person.
Pressing charges wont help anything and probably will make things worse.

Out of curiosity did your friend call an ambulance the first time he got severe chest pains or just go himself. Severe chest pain is a common sign of a heart attack and if I had it I would be concerned enough to call one, maybe that would have prompted a more serious treatment?

Biggins · 20-01-2012 06:14PM

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Hi All,

I really appreciate all the input here, I'm heading off now so can't reply back to any posts until next week.

Unfortunately the man who died did not have any next of kin so I guess I will never be able to find out what the cause is which is really bad IMO. Will the hospital definetely only talk to next of kin ??
He was just a very close friend of the family but more of an uncle than a friend.

I suppose I'll leave the thread at that, again thanks to all.

Unless you were connected by blood, I think in most cases you would not be able to take it further.
The ONLY way even now, is to be able to show just cause for a Gardi investigation - but lets be real, that won't happen for reasons that are easy to make out. One being lack of evidence even to get that far...

It would be judgemental of me to say if you have a case of not, given the bare facts we have here but I might say that you'd be on a lost cause on the matter in all honestly.
Sorry.

dj jarvis · 20-01-2012 06:23PM

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Hi Amacachi,

maybe bring your dad to the Beacon Clinic. They have really top notch equipment out there and the doctors out there are fantastic.

I've been there a few times myself and if anything happened to me that would be my first choice.

In answer to other people's question he was 65, didn't smoke, only drank the odd time but didn't have a great diet.

Worked all his life right up until he died so he certainly wasn't a couch potatoe.

Thanks again to all

i have to disagree - this is a post i put up a while back , thread closed becasue i was asking legal advice -
i have removed the offending questions and this is a edited version on the original post - this story is 100% true

sorry for your loss OP
i had a heart attack 2 years back and had a interesting run in with a private hospital in Dublin

presented myself to their " accident and emergency " dept with every symptom of a heart attack , chest pains - shooting pains in left arm - sore neck - teeth on left side hurting ect ect ect

told the receptionist took details and told me to sit - double took her becasue i was not sure i heard her right - i told her heart attack and she said sit ??
so 30 minutes later i still had not been seen , doubled over with pain and fear , all the other patients were asking me was i ok - it was obvious i was in trouble

i got up went to the toilet and collapsed , got back up and fell back to reception - asked to be seen now with tears in my eyes
brought to see a doctor - asked me all the same questions - and vanished
a hour later done a ecg and vanished - and this cycle went on
for 5 hours - at one point a consultant asked me about my problem and my symptoms and remarked " i really should get that seen to "
i was asked at least 10 times had i got private insurance and constantly told how expensive this facility was

after 5 hours they decided to bounce me a public hospital - this is after telling them i had a credit card and did not give a crap how much it cost - treat me now !!!

the ambulance crew arrived and asked had i received asprin ? answer no
had i received DMT spray ( i think its called that ) answer no
the crew went nuts - could not believe it

they announced " this man has had a massive heart attack - hes going straight to surgery " and were really pissed off with the doctors and nurses i could not believe this - i spent 5 hours try to convince these dopes i was having a heart attack and it took a Dublin city ambulance crew 5 minutes to correctly diagnose my problem

so we are full tilt on a bed out of this hospital , real er stuff , and this voice starts shouting stop! stop! - so out of nowhere this clown with a laser card machine is running with us

he wanted my credit card so he could charge me 480 euro for the 5 hours and the 2 pain killers ( solfadene ) they gave me
after hearing this the crew went mental - telling him to **** off , one shouted at him " have you got his address ? yes , well ****ing bill him " and

this is happening while we are running - one of the crew members had to try kick this clown away as we were running just to keep him from getting to me - i swear to god

got into the ambulance - told by the crew member " don't worry son we are professionals - not like those chancers "

within 25 minutes i was in theater getting a stent and angeograme , spent 10 days in cardiac resuscitate unit - intensive care for heart patients

could not fault the public service at all - could not believe the private hospitals attitude - all they were interested in was my insurance details so they could get paid , they did not care about me becasue they thought they were not getting paid

i thought that doctors no matter the circumstances had to help to the limit of their skills - i was fobbed off and disregarded totally

?

i was 5 hours having a heart attack and they not only missed it but did not even do the absolute basic's
and to add insult to injury my wife arrived in to hospital 48 hours later with my 11 month old and a envelope
it contained a invoice from said private hospital for 480 euro !!! within 48 hours

Jimoslimos · 20-01-2012 06:34PM

First of all OP, sorry for your loss.

I think that due to money/time constraints in public A&E it's pretty much a case of medicine by numbers, take a list of symptoms (many of which can be subjective, since they're dealing with the patient's own description of pain/discomfort), and look at potential risk factors, whilst weighing both up.

If patient is deemed high risk decide on a course of treatment/further tests, if lower risk send home and monitor. That's the blunt reality - not anyone's fault.

20-01-2012 06:42PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

Heart attack story.

Mother of God that's shocking. That sounds more like what you'd expect in the American healthcare system.

Those that advocate a private healthcare only system should take note.

dj jarvis · 20-01-2012 06:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Mother of God that's shocking. That sounds more like what you'd expect in the American healthcare system.

Those that advocate a private healthcare only system should take note.

It is owned by a American company and this is the model FF and mary harney wanted to push on us

people be aware this is happening NOW in Ireland - luck of the gods i survived the 5 hours

they really did not give a flying f2uck

Doc Ruby · 20-01-2012 07:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Those that advocate a private healthcare only system should take note.

Depends how its done. The Dutch are paying less per head than us for health and have the best healthcare in the world, all privatised except for government paying insurance costs for the poor.

AudreyHepburn · 20-01-2012 07:22PM

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Hi All,

I'll make this short, a great friend of mine / friend of the family passed away suddenly last night and was found today at 3pm slumped over his kitchen table.

The diagnosis is that he died suddenly of a heart attack.

He attended tallaght hospital 1 week ago complaing of severe chest pains and you know what, they sent him home saying if it continues to come back in.

Now I've been ranting onto people about this all day and I would like to hold the hospital responsible somehow for this but don't know where to start.

Other people are telling me that it wasn't the hospitals fault as they simply cannot check every vein / artery that may have a clog in it which I suppose is fair enough but I think they should have at least ran some tests and not have sent him home so quickly.

Perhaps I'm just in rage because of my loss and want to blame someone.

I would like other peoples opinions on this matter, do you think the hospital could have done nothing about it or do you think they are perhaps to blame in some way.

Is it a matter of contacting a solicitor to look into the matter or is that just life ??

I would really appreciate no trolls or jokes / smart comments about this, thanks.

First of all I am truely sorry for your loss, I can't imagine the pain of loosing a dear friend.

You are devestated and angry.....both completely normal and understandable.

But if I were you I would think this through properly before you go accusing anyone of being negligent or causing your friend's death.

One would assume the people who examined your friend were well trained professionals who knew their job and would not send home some-one with chest pains if they thought it was something serious.

To have a case against them you would need to prove they were negligent which could result in a long drawn out legal battle and I would perhaps caution you to wait for a while until the pain has eased and you can think clearly about what happened.

boodee · 20-01-2012 08:20PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

yes its a third world country here when it comes to healthcare. the nurses/doctors are curtailed in what they can do - they can't work with nothing.
Ah now c'mon, whens the last case of an infant dying of diarrhea in irealnd or an operation being performed in a dirty theatre with no anesthetic.

It's flawed but not that bad. You have to stand up as an individual and shout untill you get what you want, change doctors, challenge theories, present yourself as many times as needs be, but be heard and you can't be ignored.

Had the OPs friend gone back to hospital during the week he may well have been seen again, but if he sat at home in pain then the ending was never going to be any different.

My sister had to present 3 times to A&E with her symptoms but kept being turned away as she has a mental health history, when they did finally give her an MRI, she was rushed to the Mater and her was second to none.

On return to waterford her care was terrible and a nurse told me not to expect any better as there was only 1 nurse to 20 patients. We had to beg them to test her for a condition we suspected....and we were right....she'll be ok eventually, but we had to do a lot of the work ourselves...

Freddie59 · 20-01-2012 08:29PM

My late brother died at 42. He had been attending the doctor with the classic symptoms, but still slipped through the cracks. Unfortunately, as any doctor or nurse will tell you, you could get a massive coronary in casualty and they still couldn't save you.

Very sad to hear though.

Freddie59 · 20-01-2012 08:35PM

af_thefragile wrote: »

Irish healthcare is superior to the health care in most countries of the world but it is far from perfect with lots of room for improvement.

I have to beg to differ. Some hospitals are absolutely filthy, with no-one seeming to be in absolute charge. I've seen cleaners wash down eating trays with cloths that they've used in the bathroom. The same cleaners supervise themselves, rather than someone from the HSE doing it, which would be far more sensible.

My own experience? I was admitted to hospital with severe chest pains at 39 years of age. AFter two days I was discharged because nothing showed. Before discharge I asked the doc/consultant what it was:

"we don't know"

Did I get a heart attack?

"we can't say"

Had they any idea of what it MIGHT have been?

"No".

Their priority seemed to be the release of the bed. And that was 13 years ago.

Ireland's Poxy F***N Hospital System

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