Ireland's Poxy F***N Hospital System

Stiffler2

Hi All,

I'll make this short, a great friend of mine / friend of the family passed away suddenly last night and was found today at 3pm slumped over his kitchen table.

The diagnosis is that he died suddenly of a heart attack.

He attended tallaght hospital 1 week ago complaing of severe chest pains and you know what, they sent him home saying if it continues to come back in.

Now I've been ranting onto people about this all day and I would like to hold the hospital responsible somehow for this but don't know where to start.

Other people are telling me that it wasn't the hospitals fault as they simply cannot check every vein / artery that may have a clog in it which I suppose is fair enough but I think they should have at least ran some tests and not have sent him home so quickly.

Perhaps I'm just in rage because of my loss and want to blame someone.

I would like other peoples opinions on this matter, do you think the hospital could have done nothing about it or do you think they are perhaps to blame in some way.

Is it a matter of contacting a solicitor to look into the matter or is that just life ??

I would really appreciate no trolls or jokes / smart comments about this, thanks.

FatherLen

sorry to hear about your loss but i wouldnt say the hospital can be held responsible.
but i am no solicitor so i am not sure.

AngryBollix

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Hi All,

I'll make this short, a great friend of mine / friend of the family passed away suddenly last night and was found today at 3pm slumped over his kitchen table.

The diagnosis is that he died suddenly of a heart attack.

He attended tallaght hospital 1 week ago complaing of severe chest pains and you know what, they sent him home saying if it continues to come back in.

Now I've been ranting onto people about this all day and I would like to hold the hospital responsible somehow for this but don't know where to start.

Other people are telling me that it wasn't the hospitals fault as they simply cannot check every vein / artery that may have a clog in it which I suppose is fair enough but I think they should have at least ran some tests and not have sent him home so quickly.

Perhaps I'm just in rage because of my loss and want to blame someone.

I would like other peoples opinions on this matter, do you think the hospital could have done nothing about it or do you think they are perhaps to blame in some way.

Is it a matter of contacting a solicitor to look into the matter or is that just life ??

I would really appreciate no trolls or jokes / smart comments about this, thanks.

Who you want to hold responsible is irrelevant without sufficient evidence. Unless of course you are a heart specialist

Biggins

The persons relatives will have to contact the hospital and get their version of events.
A registered letter asking politely for details should prod some official documented answers - probably not all and to the satisfaction of seeing a quick resolution - but at least the family will know where they stand at that point and go from there.

davet82

sorry for your loss but i think it maybe just one of them things, if the hospital could have done anything more it was probably cut from their budget...

smash

I presume they gave him an ECG and it all came back ok so they released him.

Crazy Horse 6

Been happening for years pal. My own daugther spent 2 weeks in Tallaght hospital with "according to 5 expert doctors" acute bronchitis. It was'nt but luckily for us and her the actual cause of her illness did'nt have long term effects on her. The HSE is a complete mess, talk to any run of the mill nurses and they will tell you as much. Really sorry about your friend wish i had an answer for you in regards what steps to take next.

Stiffler2

Thanks all, I appreiciate it.

I just feel it's disgusting that they told him to go home with chest pains and then he had a heart attack 1 week later so I feel as if someone didn't do their job properly however I know I probably only feel this way because I am so angry about his death :(

This guy was a king among men.

JustAddWater

davet82 wrote: »

sorry for your loss but i think it maybe just one of them things, if the hospital could have done anything more it was probably cut from their budget...

Those budget cuts coming from the same man who said

Health Minister Dr James Reilly has today moved to reassure the families of sick people that the latest round of health cuts will not endanger lives.

taken from http://budget.breakingnews.ie/news/health-minister-nobody-will-die-because-of-health-cuts-531142.html

YES the health system in Ireland is a joke. I've heard nothing but bad things about tallaght and would avoid them at all costs unless i've no choice (unopended referral letters, etc, etc)

Anyway, what could or could not have been done will not do your sanity any good OP. Sorry for your loss

AngryBollix

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Thanks all, I appreiciate it.

I just feel it's disgusting that they told him to go home with chest pains and then he had a heart attack 1 week later so I feel as if someone didn't do their job properly however I know I probably only feel this way because I am so angry about his death :(

This guy was a king among men.

Unfortunately you cant make those kinds of allegations without being able to back it up.

mikom

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Now I've been ranting onto people about this all day and I would like to hold the hospital responsible somehow for this but don't know where to start.

Had the hospital control over his age, and lifestyle/diet throughout the years?

Because this is the first thing the defence would rip to shreds in your supposed courtroom situation.

amacachi

About 6 months ago dad had a heart attack, paramedics didn't see any need to take him into hospital which was reassuring for the future.

af_thefragile

Sorry for your loss.

But I'd say you can sue the hospital if you wish. You seem to have a case there where a person at a high of heart attack/MI was sent home without being examined/observed properly at the hospital to assess his risk of developing an MI.

The doctors in the AnE which I presume where your friend went to when he had his chest pains should have done a full cardiac work up on him and kept him under observation for a day or two until they could declare him risk free and send him home.

Now this would vary in different situations. Like if your friend is young and has no previous history of heart disease then it is very likely the doctors would pass it off as just musculo-skeletal pain and wouldn't feel the need to do a cardiac work up.

If your friend is old, has a known heart disease, is diabetic or has any such chronic condition, then he would get a full cardiac work up.

So you are entitled to pursue a case against a hospital. The decision will depend on whether the doctors followed the right protocols and guidelines assessing the patient with proper documentation of it all when your friend went to the AnE a week ago.

Rocky_Dennis

AngryBollix wrote: »

Unfortunately you cant make those kinds of allegations without being able to back it up.

Is burying his friend, who went to the hospital with chest pains last week not sufficient to back it up

Sorry for your loss OP

mikemac1

You can certainly speak to a solicitor and they'll help you send a registered letter requesting information

Or you can do this yourself if you know what to ask for

But for now, I wouldn't make accusations
Just find out what questions you want answered and send the letter. If this ever gets escalated then anything you put in that letter will be used so keep it straight and not emotional

You're hurt at the moment and maybe lashing out

Stiffler2

amacachi wrote: »

About 6 months ago dad had a heart attack, paramedics didn't see any need to take him into hospital which was reassuring for the future.

Hi Amacachi,

maybe bring your dad to the Beacon Clinic. They have really top notch equipment out there and the doctors out there are fantastic.

I've been there a few times myself and if anything happened to me that would be my first choice.

In answer to other people's question he was 65, didn't smoke, only drank the odd time but didn't have a great diet.

Worked all his life right up until he died so he certainly wasn't a couch potatoe.

Thanks again to all

boodee

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Thanks all, I appreiciate it.

I just feel it's disgusting that they told him to go home with chest pains and then he had a heart attack 1 week later so I feel as if someone didn't do their job properly however I know I probably only feel this way because I am so angry about his death :(

This guy was a king among men.

Sorry for your loss. You are just reeling from it now but I can see how you feel. My sister is currently wheelcahir bound after being sent home from waterford Regional THREE times. They missed a huge tumour on her spine.

I was sent home from wexford general with a cracked vertebrae some years ago and i'm still in pain.

My father in law had stomach cancer missed, by the time it was caught he only lived 4 months.



My conclusion is, there just isn't the resources and people will fall through the cracks. Unless you can keep presenting to the hospital they cannot and will not do any further tests. So, all I can say is learn from it as we won't be changing the system anytime soon. I have had to change doctors to get what I want.....but I got it..

AngryBollix

Does the OP know what the outcome of the inital visit to the hospital was?

Were the chest pains related to the heart or were they something else?

drkpower

mikom wrote: »

Had the hospital control over his age, and lifestyle/diet throughout the years?

Because this is the first thing the defence would rip to shreds in your supposed courtroom situation.

Nah; they wouldnt. 'You take your victim as you find him' is one of the maxims of medical law.

OP; contact the Hospital (or suggest his family do); arrange to speak with the doctors calmly & cooly; ask them what happened; ask questions; ask some more questions; let them answer the questions. Hopefully that will answer all your concerns. If not, then you can consider what your next move is. But only then.

AngryBollix

Andrewh1984 wrote: »

Is burying his friend, who went to the hospital with chest pains last week not sufficient to back it up

Sorry for your loss OP

Prove that they were connected. Or are you making assumptions? The initial chst pains may not have indicated an impending heart attack. If they did then you have a clear case

Are you a heart specialist too?

Sindri

amacachi wrote: »

About 6 months ago dad had a heart attack, paramedics didn't see any need to take him into hospital which was reassuring for the future.

You are supposed to take small doses of aspirin every day if you've suffered a heart attack.

It reduces chances that you'll have a second.


It doesn't work to stop the first one from happening but it can stop a second.

Nothingbetter2d

amacachi wrote: »

About 6 months ago dad had a heart attack, paramedics didn't see any need to take him into hospital which was reassuring for the future.

no autopsy to see if what killed your dad was a congenital heart defect that could save your life if you know about it in time?

Democratic Right

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Hi All,

I'll make this short, a great friend of mine / friend of the family passed away suddenly last night and was found today at 3pm slumped over his kitchen table.

The diagnosis is that he died suddenly of a heart attack.

He attended tallaght hospital 1 week ago complaing of severe chest pains and you know what, they sent him home saying if it continues to come back in.

Now I've been ranting onto people about this all day and I would like to hold the hospital responsible somehow for this but don't know where to start.

Other people are telling me that it wasn't the hospitals fault as they simply cannot check every vein / artery that may have a clog in it which I suppose is fair enough but I think they should have at least ran some tests and not have sent him home so quickly.

Perhaps I'm just in rage because of my loss and want to blame someone.

I would like other peoples opinions on this matter, do you think the hospital could have done nothing about it or do you think they are perhaps to blame in some way.

Is it a matter of contacting a solicitor to look into the matter or is that just life ??

I would really appreciate no trolls or jokes / smart comments about this, thanks.

Not sure about this but is it possible for the family to contact the coroner and ask for an autopsy and inquest?

amacachi

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

no autopsy to see if what killed your dad was a congenital heart defect?

He didn't die, had another one a coupla days later and drove himself to hospital.

fonda

Ireland's Poxy F***N Hospital System

What curse begins with f and ends in n and has 5 letters???

Stiffler2

AngryBollix wrote: »

Does the OP know what the outcome of the inital visit to the hospital was?

Were the chest pains related to the heart or were they something else?

I'm sorry I don't have the answers to these questions but I certainly will over the next few days.

amacachi

Sindri wrote: »

It doesn't work to stop the first one from happening but it can stop a second.

He's on plenty now, when I said "for the future" I meant in dealing with paramedics and the like again. Mine and family members' experiences with medical professionals doesn't fill me with confidence.

MagicMarker

Sorry for your loss OP, but I don't believe your friend went to the hospital and was told to go home. They at least did routine tests and found things to be within normal parameters, they certainly couldn't have predicted what would happen a week later.

AngryBollix

Stiffler2 wrote: »

I'm sorry I don't have the answers to these questions but I certainly will over the next few days.

Might be the safest place to start. At least you'll have a clearer picture of what happened one way or the other.

Rocky_Dennis

AngryBollix wrote: »

Prove that they were connected. Or are you making assumptions? The initial chst pains may not have indicated an impending heart attack. If they did then you have a clear case

Are you a heart specialist too?

I'm not a heart specialist nor a doctor.

Anyway, a similar incident happened with a friend of mine but thankfully he didn't pass away, paramedics were called after he complained of chest pains, they arrived and said he was ok, he had a heart attack that night. Maybe I am making assumptions but from this incident, I reckon they could be related.

AngryBollix

MagicMarker wrote: »

Sorry for your loss OP, but I don't believe your friend went to the hospital and was told to go home. They at least did routine tests and found things to be within normal parameters, they certainly couldn't have predicted what would happen a week later.

Some clarification from the staff involved may be the way to go

Stiffler2

MagicMarker wrote: »

Sorry for your loss OP, but I don't believe your friend went to the hospital and was told to go home. They at least did routine tests and found things to be within normal parameters, they certainly couldn't have predicted what would happen a week later.

Thanks MagicMarker. I am no heart speciailist. All that I can tell you from a medical point of view is that the heart is in the chest.

If he was complaining of chest pain, went to a hospital to have it checked out and they sent him home, he then dies of a heart attack 1 week later.

If I brought my car to a mechanic to fix a broken wheel, he sent me on my way and then my wheel falls off 1 week later I blame the mechanic or whoever carried out the work and said, it's ok, off you go now.

That's the way I am looking at this but again I am not a heart specialist and I do understand that those chest pains could have been something else but it's too much of a coincidence for me.

Again I probably only feel this way due to anger / emotions right now.

TheZohanS

I'm sorry for your loss.

mikom

drkpower wrote: »

Nah; they wouldnt. 'You take your victim as you find him' is one of the maxims of medical law.

And....

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Hi All,
He attended tallaght hospital 1 week ago complaing of severe chest pains and you know what, they sent him home saying if it continues to come back in.

Nothingbetter2d

amacachi wrote: »

He didn't die, had another one a coupla days later and drove himself to hospital.

glad to hear that he didnt die.

mikom

Stiffler2 wrote: »

If I brought my car to a mechanic to fix a broken wheel, he sent me on my way and then my wheel falls off 1 week later I blame the mechanic or whoever carried out the work and said, it's ok, off you go now.

Would this work for the NCT?

Mr Benevolent

My dad collapsed and had a seizure fairly recently, first time it's happened. and he was rushed to Beaumont. They couldn't figure out what was wrong so they kept him in for a week. There was never any suggestion of sending him straight home even though they still don't know what happened. Even had an MRI and CAT scan, nothing showed up. Bottom line, they would not have sent him home without good cause. No reassurance, I know.

boodee

Unfortunately as a friend you will not be entitled to ask after any information about the case. They will only discuss it with next of kin. Unless the family want to do it, you wont get to find out.
Sometimes people don't want to know...OP, I hope you can get some peace of mind. Thinking of you.

Dyr

mikom wrote: »

Had the hospital control over his age, and lifestyle/diet throughout the years?

Because this is the first thing the defence would rip to shreds in your supposed courtroom situation.

Will his diet have any relation to proving professional negligence in a court?

im not a big city lawyer but I ****ing well doubt it.

af_thefragile

Bambi wrote: »

Will his diet have any relation to proving professional negligence in a court?

im not a big city lawyer but I ****ing well doubt it.

His past medical history would. Doctors follow hospital protocols and guidelines. If a young healthy patient comes into the AnE with chest pain, they will not do a full cardiac work up on him because that would cost HSE unnecessary money which the HSE cannot afford.

On the other hand if an old person or diabetic or with known history of heart disease etc. would come in, he would get a full cardiac work up before being sent home.

Anyway, I would suggest the OP to speak to his friend's family if they feel like finding out more about his friend's death and then his friend's family can talk to the hospital about what was done when his friend went to the AnE and why was he sent home. They will soon find out if it was a case of professional negligence or his friend was just unfortunate.

And yeah the hospital will not discuss anything with the OP as they'll only do this with the family members in strict confidentiality.

Biggins

Remember a short while back England Prince Philip having medical heart problems?

I had an uncle of mine went in the week before for a leg operation (now given his age (old) he WAS told it would be a gamble if it would be of any use).
Now after the operation he was fine and dandy for days - then BANG - Prince Philip had his heart problems so the entire floor that my uncle was on, was completely emptied by security just for the prince!
My uncle was moved to another hospital entirely and into a room with others that (it appears) had serious infections.
3/4 weeks later and we are burying him this week-end in Manchester.

Who's to blame? Is there anyone to blame at all? Is either hospital liable? God knows - I doubt we will really ever know.
(Its certainly NOT Prince Philip's direct fault as much as one might dis-like the idea of royalty)

Sometimes these things happen and sometimes some things can be avoided.
What it boils down to is being able to show and PROVE there was clear enough negligence and/or clear cock-ups to have a decent court case.

xzanti

Sorry for your loss but as a lot of others have said.. I think your anger is misplaced.. I hope you find comfort..

fishy fishy

yes its a third world country here when it comes to healthcare. the nurses/doctors are curtailed in what they can do - they can't work with nothing.

so....why not organise a protest - you and your friends could do it - highlight it and ask everyone else with similar stories to come along (of which there are many).

Only when something is nationally highlighted with a bit of passion will the gombeenmen listen. Otherwise they will continue as is.......

paperclip2

My Sister had a 'dizzy spell' yesterday and fell down the stairs. Went to her doc who said it sounded like a seizure and referred her to local hospital A& E. ten hours later she still hadn't seen a doctor and was too wrecked to stay sitting in the waiting area so she went home. Healthcare my a***e

On another occasion my dad was sent home from an different A&E with a perforated bowel and ended up collapsing. He had to have 17 feet of small intestine removed subsequently.

Same A&E sent him home a few years later with 'psychomatic breathing difficulties', yes he was told it was all in his head. When he arrived back the next day he was admitted with double pneumonia and spent a month in hospital.

Irish healthcare=:rolleyes::eek::mad:

af_thefragile

fishy fishy wrote: »

yes its a third world country here when it comes to healthcare. the nurses/doctors are curtailed in what they can do - they can't work with nothing.

so....why not organise a protest - you and your friends could do it - highlight it and ask everyone else with similar stories to come along (of which there are many).

Only when something is nationally highlighted with a bit of passion will the gombeenmen listen. Otherwise they will continue as is.......

A bit extreme a quote maybe...

Irish healthcare is superior to the health care in most countries of the world but it is far from perfect with lots of room for improvement. The HSE budget cuts making things worse with hospitals being under staffed and doctors being made to work for long hours under fatigue which is when most mistakes happen.

fishy fishy

af_thefragile wrote: »

A bit extreme a quote maybe...

Irish healthcare is superior to the health care in most countries of the world but it is far from perfect with lots of room for improvement. The HSE budget cuts making things worse with hospitals being under staffed and doctors being made to work for long hours under fatigue which is when most mistakes happen.

are you serious?

drkpower

mikom wrote: »

And....

?

gbee

Unfortunately, your story is all too commonplace.

My own mother was sent home with pneumonia and died prematurely too. We did not pursue a case.

Get on your local radio station to get a sounding from others about the particular facility.

af_thefragile

fishy fishy wrote: »

are you serious?

If you consider how in most countries public health care is absolutely atrocious with no proper facilities and resources to treat the people with and private health care is the only decent health care but its so expensive that only the handful rich can afford it.

Leaving out third world countries where any sort of decent health care is non existent where people continually die of easily treatable acute illnesses which can't be treated due to lack of resources and funding.

Stiffler2

Hi All,

I really appreciate all the input here, I'm heading off now so can't reply back to any posts until next week.

Unfortunately the man who died did not have any next of kin so I guess I will never be able to find out what the cause is which is really bad IMO. Will the hospital definetely only talk to next of kin ??
He was just a very close friend of the family but more of an uncle than a friend.

I suppose I'll leave the thread at that, again thanks to all.

cocoshovel

A lot of people really have no idea what they're talking about in here.
The healthcare system here is annoying I admit, but as previously said it is quite good compared to most other countries in the world, and especially at a time like this.
We have it too good you see so we're never happy, and its not like the people who treated and ran tests on your friend that day were slacking off. Im sure they did everything they were supposed to do and nothing major came up at the time or they had to run tests which take a long time. The only major problem was perhaps the system itself and not any individual person.
Pressing charges wont help anything and probably will make things worse.

Out of curiosity did your friend call an ambulance the first time he got severe chest pains or just go himself. Severe chest pain is a common sign of a heart attack and if I had it I would be concerned enough to call one, maybe that would have prompted a more serious treatment?