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Nuclear Scientist in Iran? You won't live too long!

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Comments

  • #32
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Lets not forget Saudi Arabia in this,They have a huge interest in making sure Iran does not acquire nuclear weapons,The Iranian plot to assassinate the Saudi ambassador to Washington last october surprised many people. Iran's animosity toward Saudi Arabia, however, should have surprised no one.The two are divided not only by the Persian Gulf, but also by a Shiite-Sunni sectarian split and a Persian-Arab divide that goes back centuries.


  • #33
    KerranJast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,828 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Just remember america, your the only ones to ever use nuclear weapons against innocent people
    I hate to play the numbers game but Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably saved at almost a million US troops lives and probably several multiple million of Japanese troops and civilians lives.


  • #34
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Auvers wrote: »
    who said anything about them using it :confused:

    If they're not going to use then what's all the fear-mongering about? I'll tell you what it's about. At the moment Israel has complete military theater dominance in the region and the US has the option of attacking Iran.

    If/when Iran achieves nuclear capability that option becomes obsolete.
    your post sounds like Iran is some sort of victimized state

    Did you miss this part of the post?
    Offers, including [Iran] making its nuclear programme more transparent, were conditional on the US ending hostility.

    In simple terms for those who might have difficulty understanding what the above says is 'Please don't invade our country and grab our resources'.
    Iran is a dangerous beast so why give them access to bigger teeth

    What a strange world we live in when Iran is presented as being a 'dangerous beast' when it has been the US and in a lesser way Israel wreaking havoc in the middle east.

    Strange indeed.


  • #35
    Auvers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭Auvers


    KerranJast wrote: »
    I hate to play the numbers game but Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably saved at almost a million US troops lives and probably several multiple million of Japanese troops and civilians lives.

    now that's highly debatable, what about the Russian attack on Japanese forces in E Asia two days before the bombs dropped in addition to a navel blockade and the Germans surrender this would of brought about Japanese surrender without the deaths of countless civilians


  • #36
    Temptamperu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Temptamperu


    KerranJast wrote: »
    I hate to play the numbers game but Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably saved at almost a million US troops lives and probably several multiple million of Japanese troops and civilians lives.
    Are you for real? it was worth destroying two cities and killing and maiming women and children just to keep the nubers down on the yanks?
    They had toy and wanted to use toy and no matter what they say it was the single biggest war crime of the 20th century.


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  • #37
    Standard Toaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,291 ✭✭✭✭Standard Toaster


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/julian-borger-global-security-blog/2012/jan/11/iran-nuclear-weapons?CMP=twt_gu

    Whoever is killing Iran's scientists is clearly willing to risk catastrophic consequences that could engulf the region.


  • #38
    KerranJast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,828 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Oh yeah that's going to work, yes indeedy.

    Current US sanctions and seizing of money abroad are costing Iran something like €62 Billion a year. Dead easy to portray US as the Enemy to the average Iranian voter, so why would people there vote for a US friendly government ?
    The sanctions are hitting the affluent merchant class who've supported the regime as it means they can benefit to the detriment of the working class. I agree its a fine line but these aren't the ill judged sanctions used against Iraq in the 90s. They're mainly freezing Iranian money in foreign institutions as I said to hurt the higher ups in the country.
    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Also as has been pointed out the Iranians are not Arabs, their Persian history goes way back. As for religion it's like Catholic vs. Protestant between them and most of the Arab world.
    I never said the Iranians were Arabs. Everyone knows they're differences. The "Arab Spring" is a commonly used term for the mass democratic movement and regime changes across North Africa and the Middle East over 2011. Are you suggesting the average voter in Iran is not going to be influenced by whats happened in Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, Syria etc if(when) the Ayatollahs rig the election?
    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    What matters more is that the US has an election and their government want to be seen to be doing something for the "war on terra" or whatever they call the "don't look here, look over there" policy
    The Obama administration has enough done at this stage in the Foreign Affairs column that they don't need to be any more gung-ho than they need to be. Taking out Bin Laden, withdrawing from Iraq, the limited and effective role in the deposing of Ghaddafi etc has covered Obama from any plausible criticism from the right. His bigger problem is economics.

    Iran is going to play a minor role in the 2012 election unless something drastic happens like a blockade of the Strait of Hormuz.


  • #39
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    KerranJast wrote: »
    I hate to play the numbers game but Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably saved at almost a million US troops lives and probably several multiple million of Japanese troops and civilians lives.

    dropping a nuclear bomb on japan is not justified by saving the lives of terrorist forces.

    "America : Every Day we make bin ladin, Mugabe, Gaddafi and Hitler look like angels by comparison"


  • #40
    KerranJast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,828 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    Auvers wrote: »
    now that's highly debatable, what about the Russian attack on Japanese forces in E Asia two days before the bombs dropped in addition to a navel blockade and the Germans surrender this would of brought about Japanese surrender without the deaths of countless civilians
    The prospect of a Russian invasion *should* have prompted a Japanese surrender but it didn't.

    Germany surrendered in May 1945 while US troops were being slaughtered on Okinawa. It took until August and after Nagasaki for the Japanese to surrender. Even then just before the Emperor announced unconditional surrender there was an attempted military coup to continue fighting.

    On a naval blockade, mainland Japan was effectively blockaded for most of 1945. Their anti-submarine tactics were non-existent and they effectively lost their entire merchant marine fleet to US/UK submarines mainly thanks to the military's cultural aversion to guard duty. They wanted to be fighting US sailors not babysitting merchants.
    Temptamperu wrote: »
    Are you for real? it was worth destroying two cities and killing and maiming women and children just to keep the nubers down on the yanks?
    They had toy and wanted to use toy and no matter what they say it was the single biggest war crime of the 20th century.
    Are you for real? Does the Holocaust not count for anything? Like I said it was a pure numbers decision for the US and a US million troops were rightly worth more to the American people than 100k odd Japanese. It's barbaric but logical.

    Anyway I think this is going off topic a bit.


  • #41
    Temptamperu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Temptamperu


    Sorry i did mean to type one of the worst.


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  • #42
    Auvers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭Auvers


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    I'll tell you what it's about. At the moment Israel has complete military theater dominance in the region and the US has the option of attacking Iran.

    complete and utter manure

    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Did you miss this part of the post?

    nope

    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    What a strange world we live in when Iran is presented as being a 'dangerous beast' when it has been the US and in a lesser way Israel wreaking havoc in the middle east.

    Strange indeed.

    nothing strange about it, why only America and Israel are the evil empires, do you not think France\Russia\Germany\UK had anything to with interfering in the middle east with their own agendas


  • #43
    Doc Ruby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    Auvers wrote: »
    so you would feel safe with a religious dictatorship having access to nuclear weapons irrespective of the conservative hawks in the American\Israeli government.
    *cough* pakistan *cough*


  • #44
    KerranJast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,828 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    Yeah I have to laugh at the constant portrayal of the US as the great Satan when you have Russia and China propping up and supplying some of the most despotic regimes on the planet. None of them have clean hands but I know who's side I'd rather be on.


  • #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I for one would like to live in a world where the American death-toll ended up much higher than the Iranian death-toll.. As in multiples higher. And a lot of them on American soil.

    If anyone even questions that statement or thinks it's wrong, I can't wait to hear your logic.


  • #46
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    fedor.2. wrote: »
    Why do you hate freedom?

    How in the name of all that is serious, can you advocate the state sponsored murdering of people who have been tried of no crime, who can been convicted of no crime, yet get blown up and poisoned at the hands of agents of a foreign state, the foreign state I might add, that just happens to have the very same nuclear capabilities that they are trying to prevent Iran from having, that is motivating this state sponsored drive by Israel to kill Iranian nuclear scientists???

    Seriously, you call that freedom?!?


  • #47
    Auvers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭Auvers


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I for one would like to live in a world where the American death-toll ended up much higher than the Iranian death-toll.. As in multiples higher. And a lot of them on American soil.

    sent from my iPhone while sipping a starbucks latte


  • #48
    Unavailable for Comment
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 217 ✭✭Unavailable for Comment


    Temptamperu wrote: »
    Are you for real? it was worth destroying two cities and killing and maiming women and children just to keep the nubers down on the yanks?

    The vast majority of people who would have died in any hypothetical allied invasion of Japan would have been Japanese civilians.

    Famine, sustained air superiority air strikes, continued firebombings, the inherent racism of the Allies against the Japanese and the fanatical yet doomed resistance of their civilian population would have seen monstrous casualties. Far, far more than were killed in the bombings.

    I hate to say it but even if you remove any anticipated Allied casualties from the equation the nuclear bombings were the more "humane" choice.
    Temptamperu wrote: »
    They had toy and wanted to use toy and no matter what they say it was the single biggest war crime of the 20th century.

    No the worst crime committed by the allied powers was annihilation of Dresden. There wasn't a nuclear bomb in sight.


  • #49
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    KerranJast wrote: »
    I hate to play the numbers game but Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably saved at almost a million US troops lives and probably several multiple million of Japanese troops and civilians lives.
    That discussion will run and run. But Operation August Storm showed just how badly the Japanese were at that stage. Russians Blitzkrieged across Manchuria so fast that the only reason South Korea exists is that Japan surrendered so soon afterwards. The Russians and Japanese are still disputing some islands.

    But yeah it was the US subs blocking all shipping that won most of that war.


  • #50
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Israel has a long history of assassination.

    http://world.std.com/~jlr/doom/bull.htm
    In return for support for the supergun, Iraq demanded that he help them with the design of a multi-stage missile that they were trying to assemble out of SCUD parts. Bull agreed, and did many of the nosecone calculations.

    That is what killed him. Israel had no great reason to care about the supergun, but they had much to fear from Iraqi missiles. Warning signs were left for him. His apartment was broken into several times, but nothing was stolen. A few items were disturbed just to show that someone had been there.

    In March of 1990, Bull was killed outside his apartment by five shots to the back of his head. No one heard the shots, and no one was ever caught.

    more assassinations abroad
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,678805,00.html

    oh yeah , they were using Irish Passports :mad:
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0218/dubai.html


  • #51
    fedor.2.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭fedor.2.


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    How in the name of all that is serious, can you advocate the state sponsored murdering of people who have been tried of no crime, who can been convicted of no crime, yet get blown up and poisoned at the hands of agents of a foreign state, the foreign state I might add, that just happens to have the very same nuclear capabilities that they are trying to prevent Iran from having, that is motivating this state sponsored drive by Israel to kill Iranian nuclear scientists???

    Seriously, you call that freedom?!?



    Iran is a danger to the rest of the world and should be treated as such. Ah if only it was an ideal world...... You should be down on your knees thanking god that there are people out there risking their lives to protect hippies like you from tyranny


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  • #52
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    KerranJast wrote: »
    Are you for real? Does the Holocaust not count for anything?
    It was also terrible, but the long lasting effects from the fallout of a nuclear weapon are in my book worse than a genocide that ended when it ended, both are awful and nobody could condone either, but nuclear weapons are the worst thing that happened in my book.
    KerranJast wrote: »
    Yeah I have to laugh at the constant portrayal of the US as the great Satan when you have Russia and China propping up and supplying some of the most despotic regimes on the planet. None of them have clean hands but I know who's side I'd rather be on.

    the US has its own liking of propping up despotic regimes
    http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/245-2008-november/3845-congress-watch-a-conservative-estimate-of-total-direct-us-aid-to-israel-almost-114-billion.html


  • #53
    conorhal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Oh yeah that's going to work, yes indeedy.

    Current US sanctions and seizing of money abroad are costing Iran something like €62 Billion a year. Dead easy to portray US as the Enemy to the average Iranian voter, so why would people there vote for a US friendly government ?

    They are not interested in a friendly government, just a pragmatic one.
    What's being applied here are some tried and trusted cold war tactics, containment and strategic targeting. They want popular support for the regime to collapse under the anger at the resources an increasingly paranoid regime has concentrated has on weapons development, paying their bloated, privileged army class and their Basij informer and enforcer class, who like the stazi are only really deployed against their own population. The objective is to make the regime render itself unsustainable.


  • #54
    Temptamperu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Temptamperu


    No the worst crime committed by the allied powers was annihilation of Dresden. There wasn't a nuclear bomb in sight.

    Dresden was only 25,000 civillians the firestorms in hamburg killed 50k, the immediate effects in hiroshima was 70k rising to 166k (some say 200,000) with 80K in nagisaki.

    I cant believe i said only 25,000 :(


  • #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Auvers wrote: »
    sent from my iPhone while sipping a starbucks latte

    Such shíte. :rolleyes:


  • #56
    Auvers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭Auvers


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Such shíte. :rolleyes:

    that's some retort, something like a 12yr old would respond with


  • #57
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    *cough* pakistan *cough*

    Pakistan has a lot of faults, but its not a dictatorship. The current government, who again have many faults, were nonetheless democratically elected.


  • #58
    Iphonehelp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭Iphonehelp


    NinjaK wrote: »
    Another act of terrorism from the US/Israel.

    Yeah its not like Iran has ever killed thousands of US Marines and Israeli soldiers through proxy terrorist organizations.... :rolleyes:


  • #59
    Iphonehelp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭Iphonehelp


    wes wrote: »
    Pakistan has a lot of faults, but its not a dictatorship. The current government, who again have many faults, were nonetheless democratically elected.

    It is a dictatorship. Dictated by the military leaders rather than the prime minister and president. Its all an act, everyone who is informed knows that the military have always truly ruled Pakistan.


  • #60
    Iphonehelp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭Iphonehelp


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I for one would like to live in a world where the American death-toll ended up much higher than the Iranian death-toll.. As in multiples higher. And a lot of them on American soil.

    If anyone even questions that statement or thinks it's wrong, I can't wait to hear your logic.

    Would you like to see America weakened?

    If you want to live in a world where the major super power is China or Russia then be my guest. But it wont be pretty.


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  • #61
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Iphonehelp wrote: »
    It is a dictatorship. Dictated by the military leaders rather than the prime minister and president. Its all an act, everyone who is informed knows that the military have always truly ruled Pakistan.

    Except that there is currently no military dictatorship, and the civilian government are actually running the show. The military does have a large amount of power, but they are not running the show right now. If what you were saying was true Musharraf, would have neven left the country, and would be living in a nice villa outside Islamabad.


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