The Waco Seige

Wattle wrote: »

According to some the A.T.F. started the fire.

The government maintains the fires were deliberately started by Davidians. Davidian survivors maintain the fires were accidentally or deliberately started by the tank assault.

FBI surveillance tapes from devices planted in the wall of the building record a man inside the compound saying "Everybody wake up, let's start to pray", then, "Pablo have you poured it yet" ..."Huh" ... "Have you poured it yet"... "in the hallway"... "things are poured, right?" CEV1 receives orders to spray two bottles of tear gas into left corner of building

FBI surveillance tapes record a male Davidian saying, "The fuel has to go all around to get started." Then a second male says, "Well, there are two cans here, if that's poured soon."

FBI surveillance records a meeting starting at 7:30 AM between several unidentified males.

UM: "They got two cans of Coleman fuel down there? Huh?"
UM: "Empty"
UM: "All of it?"

According to the goverment, a series of remarks like "I want a fire (...)", "keep that fire going" and "do you think I could light this soon?" indicate the Davidians have started setting fire to the complex around 11:30. Surviving Davidians testified that Coleman fuel had been poured, and fire experts in Danfort's report agree "without question" that people inside the complex had started multiple accelerated fires.

ClovenHoof wrote: »

It is outright mass murder by a government on a group of people to make an example of them. Practice for Iraq.

ClovenHoof wrote: »

The allegations of sexual abuse were fabricated. Most of the children had left by the time the buring began. Koresh (whom I am not defending) allowed anyone who wanted to leave to go. Many did.

That does not sound like a crazy suicidal cult leader to me.

The child abuse and sexual abuse claims have been widely circulated in the press coverage though it is often difficult to separate the purported claims from the evidence.[11] Koresh's doctrine of the House of David[12] did lead to spiritual marriages with both married and single women in the group and with at least one underage girl. The underage girl was Michele Jones, the younger sister of Koresh's legal wife Rachel and the daughter of life-long Davidians Perry and Mary Belle Jones. Koresh took Michele as a spiritual wife when she was thirteen, evidently with the consent of the Joneses. This means Koresh was in violation of state law and could have been prosecuted for statutory rape in Texas. A six-month investigation of child abuse allegations by the Texas Child Protection Services in 1992 failed to turn up any evidence likely because the Davidians concealed the spiritual marriage of Koresh to Michele Jones, assigning a surrogate husband (David Thibodeau), to the girl for the sake of appearances. [13] A second allegation involved an underage girl, Kiri Jewell, who testified in the Congressional hearings on Waco in 1995. She claimed Koresh engaged in improper sexual touching and other behaviors that would have brought sexual assault charges against him. There is no independent confirmation of this incident, however, and Kiri's family was split over whether they believed her story.

Regarding the allegations of child abuse, the evidence is less compelling. In one widely reported incident, ex-members claimed that Koresh became irritated with the cries of his son Cyrus and spanked the child severely for several minutes on three consecutive visits to the child's bedroom. In a second report, Koresh was said to have beaten the eight-month old daughter of another member for approximately forty minutes until the girl's bottom bled. In a third incident, a man involved in a custody battle visited Mt. Carmel and claimed to have seen the beating of a young boy with a stick. [14] Finally, the FBI's justification for forcing an end to the 51 day standoff was predicated on the charge that Koresh was abusing children inside Mount Carmel. In hours following the deadly conflagration, Attorney General Janet Reno told reporters that "We had specific information that babies were being beaten." [15] But FBI Director William Sessions publicly denied the charge and told reporters that they had no such information about child abuse inside the Mount Carmel. [16] A careful examination of the other child abuse charges found the evidence to be weak and ambiguous, casting doubt on the allegations. [17]

The allegations of child abuse stem largely from detractors and ex-members. [18] The 1993 U.S. Department of Justice report cites allegations of child sexual and physical abuse. But despite the merits of the charges, legal scholars point out that the ATF had no legal jurisdiction in the matter of child protection and it appears that these accounts were inserted by the ATF to inflame the case against Koresh. For example, the account of former Branch Davidian Jeannine Bunds is reproduced in the affidavit. She claimed that Koresh had fathered at least fifteen children with various women and that she had personally delivered seven of these children. Bunds also claims that Koresh would annul all marriages of couples who joined the group, had exclusive sexual access to the women, and would also have regular sexual relations with young girls,[19] though some of these charges are clearly exaggerated. [20] There is no question that Koresh had multiple children by different women in the group. His House of David doctrine based on a purported revelation involved the reproduction of 24 children by chosen women in the community. These 24 children were to serve as the ruling elders over the millennium after the return of Christ. In his book, James Tabor states that Koresh acknowledged on a videotape sent out of the compound during the standoff that he had fathered more than 12 children by several "wives."[21] On March 3, 1993, during negotiations to secure the release of the remaining children, Koresh advised the Negotiation Team that: "My children are different than those others," referring to his direct lineage versus those children previously released.

At the time, in Texas, the age of parental consent for a minor to marry was 14, as was the age for consent to engage in sexual relations. In the documentary film, Waco: The Rules of Engagement (long version), Jack Harwell, Sheriff of McLennan County, stated: "You have to have proof to go into court . . . Keep in mind, too, that most of the girls who were involved were at least 14 years old and 14 year olds get married with parental consent. So if their parents were there and letting things happen in the way of sexual activities and what have you with their 14 year old kids, you have common law husbands and wives. Uh, I don’t say that I agree with that and that I approve of it. But at the same time, if parents are there and they’re giving parental consent, we have a problem with that in making a case."