Diesel 1.6 or 1.8 Ford Focus - What should I buy?

MrWenger1982 · 09-01-2012 03:46PM #1

I would like to buy 09/10 Ford Focus. I do a decent amount of mileage and motorway driving so I would prefer a Diesel with relatively low mileage.

I don't know too much about cars but I have tried to do some research online and talking to people. I have read that the 1.6 TCDI Diesel is a newer engine than the 1.8 TCDI Diesel and has better fuel efficiency and cheaper tax/insurance. I have test driven both cars and felt very little difference in the driving experience. I was leaning towards a 1.6 and have looked at quite a few of them but I "think" I am getting a very good deal on a 1.8 TCDI 2009 for €11,500 with 35K miles on it from what seems to be a reputable dealer. The 1.6s I like are all close to the 13K mark or well over it.

My main focus is on reliability and keeping a car for 6/7 years. My question is whether people feel it is is worth paying the extra €1.5K or more for a 1.6 TCDI over a 1.8 TCDI or whether the difference between the 1.6 and 1.8 is pretty negligible?

Mossess · 09-01-2012 03:50PM

Would you not be better off getting a VW Golf? If you intend on keeping it for a few years, it'd be nice to A) still have it in a few years, and

get something for it when you sell it.

(Sorry if your a ford head, I don't mean to offend)

mullingar · 09-01-2012 04:02PM

Mossess wrote: »

..... get something for it when you sell it.

Are you saying you wont get something for the Ford? Thats silly.

Having driven the Focus & Golf, I prefer the Focus and the depreciations are very similar depending on spec.

Regarding a 1.6 or 1.8, there is a recent thread about the pros and cons.
1.6
Pros: newer engine, better driver, better power band,
Cons: needs to be serviced with the right oil or turbo will die due to oil starvation; EGR's and DPF (DPF are only on the 110hp version) start to go around 75k-100k miles (like most modern TD's)
1.8:
Pros: very reliable, well proven engine, no DPF as it would never meet new emissions
Cons: DMF is guaranteed to fail at around 100k

Mossess · 09-01-2012 04:08PM

mullingar wrote: »

Are you saying you wont get something for the Ford? Thats silly.

LOL, not at all, I have one of each. And I'm keeping them both for a few years too, and I expect to get a lot less for the ford compared to the VW. And I expect that I'll have the VW a lot longer then the ford too. Also my running costs seem to be a lot more on the ford.

Leonard Hofstadter · 09-01-2012 04:13PM

The power of the VW badge to make people delusional knows no bounds!

OP don't bother with a Golf, unless you absolutely have to have soft touch plastics (it's amazing how many people think soft touch plastics makes a car "well made" when the ironic thing is that most of the cars that give trouble are the ones with the said soft touch plastics) a Focus is better in every area that matters, especially for reliability.

Yes you'll get more for a Golf when you sell it on but you'll also pay more for it in the first place, so it's a zero sum game really.

MrWenger1982 · 09-01-2012 04:16PM

Nope not a Ford head (my last car was a Toyota) but just prefer the look and feel of the Focus to the Golf.

Mullingar, I read that thread but to be honest, I didn't understand a lot of the lingo as I know very little about cars. Even when you say DMF is guaranteed to fail, I don't know what that means or if it is a big deal

All things being equal, do you think it is worth paying 1.5K extra for a 1.6 over a 1.8 TCDI? I just want to know if it's a massive mistake to go for the 1.8.

mullingar · 09-01-2012 04:20PM

Mossess wrote: »

LOL, not at all, I have one of each. And I'm keeping them both for a few years too, and I expect to get a lot less for the ford compared to the VW. And I expect that I'll have the VW a lot longer then the ford too. Also my running costs seem to be a lot more on the ford.

As I said, it depends on spec.
A same year and similar spec'ed Focus vs Golf will have similar annual depreciation.

If yours are similar spec'ed, just look up what you paid for them and what they are worth now. Obviously you cant compare them if your Golf is a TDI highline vs a 1.4 Focus LX of different years

Mossess · 09-01-2012 04:23PM

Like I said I didn’t mean to offend any Ford heads. I was only speaking from experience.

But actually thinking about it even more, would you not be better off buying a 2006 ford mondeo? Bigger than the focus and great for high milers. Plus they (and this is a good thing) cost very little, the average price on cbg.ie at the moment is €6588 for a 2006

MrWenger1982 · 09-01-2012 04:27PM

Mossess, I would prefer a diesel hatchback car so I have been debating on a Focus, Golf, Auris etc and the Focus is the one I prefer. Just trying to decide on a 1.6 or 1.8. I had choosen a 1.6 based on what I had read but the deal for €11,500 for 2009 1.8 TCDI style Focus with 35K miles is really making me consider a 1.8. Just trying to figure out whether 1.8s should be avoided or not really

mullingar · 09-01-2012 04:29PM

MrWenger1982 wrote: »

Nope not a Ford head (my last car was a Toyota) but just prefer the look and feel of the Focus to the Golf.

Mullingar, I read that thread but to be honest, I didn't understand a lot of the lingo as I know very little about cars. Even when you say DMF is guaranteed to fail, I don't know what that means or if it is a big deal All things being equal, do you think it is worth paying 1.5K extra for a 1.6 over a 1.8 TCDI? I just want to know if it's a massive mistake to go for the 1.8.

YES, get the 1.6TDCI.
My wife has a 2006 Focus 1.6TDCI 110hp that was recently de-DPF'd (Diesel particulate filter, ie a fancy expensive soot filter in the exhaust) and remapped to a very nice 130hp with better MPG too! A hoot to drive.

:D

A dealer replaced DPF can be upto €1000!!!

A DMF is a dual mass flywheel, a flywheel is a big round cog between the engine and gearbox that balances an engine from MOST of the vibrations (its what the starter motor turns). To lighten the load and to improve economy, the most modern diesels use DMF's which have 2 masses with springs to balance the load which can wear badly. Its a an expensive fix as the clutch is usually changed too.

Leonard Hofstadter · 09-01-2012 04:31PM

The 1.6 is better IF you service it on time all the time. If you don't look after it you will pay the price (a new turbo or even a reconditioned one is not cheap).

Most of the problems with these engines are down to people not looking after them properly, something far too many Irish people do sadly. The 1.8 is more tolerant of neglect and abuse - it is a very simple engine so there is nothing to go wrong with them really. A DMF is a dual mass flywheel, something almost all modern diesels have (to make them feel smoother), and are quite expensive to replace. Some diesels are more prone to this problem than others though.

In general things like the EGR valve and DMF give trouble when a diesel is driven around town most of the time. If you're driving mostly on motorways then you are far less likely to have problems with these. Basically modern diesels have a load of things in them to get them through the emissions tests (because diesel is a dirty smelly fuel) that are not tolerant of town driving.

Personally I would go for the 1.8 if reliability is your number one priority - its design goes back to the 80s when the first Fiesta and Escort diesels were sold so it is very old fashioned by today's standards - but of course that is a good thing in terms of reliability as less technology means less to go wrong!

mailforkev · 09-01-2012 04:32PM

Father in law had a 1.8 Ghia Focus for a couple of years, think it was 08 (not sure when they moved to the 1.6 engine).

He never had any trouble with it in those 2 years. I drove it a couple of times and it seemed pretty nice to be honest. Drove well and had a good bit of pace.

Was quite well equiped too for what it was. Mind you, I'd say a paddy spec one would be a bit grim to live with.

MrWenger1982 · 09-01-2012 04:34PM

Thanks Mullingar for the straight answer and also taking the time to explain the terms. That's what I needed to hear. I think I'll hold off on the 1.8 and just keep looking/waiting for a good 1.6 to come up. I figured that the 1.6 must be more expensive for a reason. Even a Ford dealer with nothing in stock told me to hold off for a 1.6 even though he had none for sale.

166man · 09-01-2012 04:34PM

OP I think the 1.8TDCI is quite an old engine but it is reliable apparently. Would you consider something like a Kia Ceed 1.6CRDI?

MrWenger1982 · 09-01-2012 04:43PM

166man, I did look at them but found them to be in short supply compared to the Focus and a similar price range plus the Focus has a great reputation (at least that's what I have heard). I also prefer the cosmetic look of the Focus

Mossess · 09-01-2012 04:52PM

The other question to ask is how much mileage are you doing a year, and how many years will you be keeping it, then work out how long it will take you to make back the 1500 difference, factoring in the reduced tax etc. And of course if you’re taking a loan out, how much is that extra 1500 extra actually costing you, and would you be better off with it in your pocket.

George Dalton · 09-01-2012 05:17PM

If it was my money I would buy a 1.8 over a 1.6 every time. There is too much potential for big bills with the 1.6. Ok admittedly the DMF gives more trouble in the 1.8 but a 1.8 with a noisy DMF won't leave you stranded on the side of the road like a 1.6 with a blown turbo will.

MrWenger1982 · 09-01-2012 05:17PM

I have kinda calculated that in my head. I reckon it will cost between €300 and €400 extra in tax if I keep it for 7/8 years. I am not really sure about fuel savings but I do around 15,000 miles per year. I have heard that the 1.6 is more fuel efficient but I don't know the details. I don't need a car loan for this but you could argue I am losing interest on the extra €1,500 I could have in my bank account

Mossess · 09-01-2012 05:29PM

I’d say go with the 1.8, well actually, you know I’d say go for a Mondeo at half the price or a VW Golf, but if your sticking with a focus then definitely the 1.8 (Or a Golf)

WestWing · 09-01-2012 05:34PM

mullingar · 09-01-2012 06:06PM

There are NO perfect diesel engines available.

Just to add, the same PSA 1.6 DV6 engine is also found in Volvo's, Citroens, Peugeots, Mini's, Mazda's and Suzuki's.

Get the 1.6 and service it right.

Leonard Hofstadter · 09-01-2012 06:16PM

mullingar wrote: »

There are NO perfect diesel engines available.

Just to add, the same PSA 1.6 DV6 engine is also found in Volvo's, Citroens, Peugeots, Mini's, Mazda's and Suzuki's.

Get the 1.6 and service it right.

Although I think the 1.8 is more reliable, most of the problems with the 1.6 are down to owners who don't understand the concept of servicing a car. The 1.6 TDCi has been used in everything from a Mini to a Volvo S80 and obviously you hear more stories about these engines developing problems than other engines simply due to the sheer volume of them sold. Service it on time and you're unlikely to have problems with them.

Tea 1000 · 09-01-2012 06:39PM

Mossess wrote: »

I’d say go with the 1.8, well actually, you know I’d say go for a Mondeo at half the price or a VW Golf, but if your sticking with a focus then definitely the 1.8 (Or a Golf)

Golf's aren't the most reliable car out there. And they're expensive to buy. Combine that with feck all extras and a mediocre engine, and you have what is known as "poor value".
Leave him alone on the Golf, he told you he didn't want one, and I don't blame him!

Mossess · 09-01-2012 06:59PM

Tea 1000 at the end of the day you get what you pay for.

Leonard Hofstadter · 09-01-2012 07:11PM

Mossess wrote: »

Tea 1000 at the end of the day you get what you pay for.

Except when you buy a Volkswagen, in which case you don't.

The only thing a VW has over a Ford is the "badge" and soft touch plastics. I prefer a car that drives well and is reliable to be honest. I don't care about soft touch plastics and silicone damped grab handles really, cars are for driving, not for feeling plastics.

cs123 · 09-01-2012 07:20PM

mullingar wrote: »

YES, get the 1.6TDCI.
My wife has a 2006 Focus 1.6TDCI 110hp that was recently de-DPF'd (Diesel particulate filter, ie a fancy expensive soot filter in the exhaust) and remapped to a very nice 130hp with better MPG too! A hoot to drive. :D

A dealer replaced DPF can be upto €1000!!!

A DMF is a dual mass flywheel, a flywheel is a big round cog between the engine and gearbox that balances an engine from MOST of the vibrations (its what the starter motor turns). To lighten the load and to improve economy, the most modern diesels use DMF's which have 2 masses with springs to balance the load which can wear badly. Its a an expensive fix as the clutch is usually changed too.

Hi Mullingar, if you don't mind me asking - where did you get the car's DPF removed? thinking of getting mine done. Opel 1.7cdti.

mullingar · 09-01-2012 07:42PM

cs123 wrote: »

Hi Mullingar, if you don't mind me asking - where did you get the car's DPF removed? thinking of getting mine done. Opel 1.7cdti.

I did the dirty job myself, removed the box, cut it open, hammer out the honeycomb material, weld it closed, reinstall. the most expensive job was the ECU work. There was 2 ecu jobs, deleting the DPF and the tuning. Contact gary_itr on here who will sort u out

alexlyons · 09-01-2012 08:15PM

Ok basically it's like this.

If you're prepared to get it serviced and look after it when it needs to be and not put off the expense for a month or two then get the 1.6. If you reckon you may end up delaying servicing (something you shouldn't do anyway but especially not the 1.6) then go for the 1.8.

All the other differences are relatively canceled by a saving on the other car. 1.8 may cost a bit more, but may be less fuel efficient so it very roughly evens out etc

Henry Ford III · 09-01-2012 08:36PM

alexlyons wrote: »

Ok basically it's like this.

If you're prepared to get it serviced and look after it when it needs to be and not put off the expense for a month or two then get the 1.6. If you reckon you may end up delaying servicing (something you shouldn't do anyway but especially not the 1.6) then go for the 1.8.

All the other differences are relatively canceled by a saving on the other car. 1.8 may cost a bit more, but may be less fuel efficient so it very roughly evens out etc

There is a big difference in power delivery and refinement too. The 1.6 is much more linear, and is also quieter and smoother imho.

mullingar · 09-01-2012 09:01PM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

There is a big difference in power delivery and refinement too. The 1.6 is much more linear, and is also quieter and smoother imho.

+1

I found the power band is too small on the 1.8.
The 1.6 has a very wide power band so you are not changing gear as often

bazz26 · 09-01-2012 11:32PM

A DPF was fitted to the 110bhp version of the 1.6 TDCi only. The 90bhp version sold upto late 2010 didn't have one. I'd pick up a 09/10 Focus Style 1.6 TDCi which will have the 90bhp engine and they are come with air con, bluetooth and alloy wheels.

Diesel 1.6 or 1.8 Ford Focus - What should I buy?

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